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  • What did Boris do wrong?

  • I think what he did wrong is, um it's a legacy that he has.

  • I don't don't forget.

  • In 2005 he said something very similar.

  • He said that Islam, that is the problem on dhe Islamophobia is a natural reaction to Islam.

  • He's now saying Ms Kim woman who choose to wear burka look like little boxes or buglers.

  • Oh, rob that bank robber bank robbers.

  • Yes, all of these things indicate something very simple.

  • He definitely has a disdain for Islam on dhe.

  • Those who try, at least in their own ways, practice their face.

  • If you were saying that he has a problem with Islam, then keep it as a religion and criticise the religion.

  • That's the problem so he could have the art school of the art school.

  • I cannot have you read the full article, have a seat halting of contact so you'll know that about half the afterglow is about.

  • The Danes doesn't even mention the burke of his job until about halfway through.

  • But you're saying he has a disdain or four Islam, but he was actually defending the right of Muslim women to choose to where the Booker or the age apples and Hay said.

  • Any counter is Avery.

  • There's an Indian phrase.

  • There's no point you giving me a gift?

  • Is that a no point you're giving me a cow is a gift.

  • After stopping, move your shoes and you put my face on by think that's what he has done.

  • He is defended.

  • The write off woman to choose or ATT least criticized the Danes for their stupidity, but at the same time proving his own prejudices pretty quickly by calling Muslim woman who, where that I don't necessarily think he wasn't.

  • He was.

  • He was talking about their appearance, their appearance.

  • One could argue it wouldn't be language that I would use either.

  • And I've said I'm not a big fan of yours just now.

  • But I defend his right to use those descriptions at saying that a woman who is wearing ah kneecap so you can only actually see her our eyes essentially exactly a slit in a letterbox or a bank robber with someone who's wearing a balaclava is a perfectly accurate description.

  • Would you say if a woman waas um, scantily dressed?

  • Well, to be fair to say she looks like a prosecutor or a tart.

  • I don't think you I think you'll find out.

  • Probably say things like that all the time.

  • I think we make judgments about what people wear all the time.

  • It depends the context.

  • He's wearing a bikini on a beach.

  • No, if she's wearing a she's very she's got big, every single part of her body hanging out walking on the street.

  • Yeah, I'd say she looked cheap and tarty.

  • Yes, I would.

  • You know, we use words that we want to describe people with, but without freedom, off to speak, we have to have to be brave, to be responsible.

  • And if we fail to be responsible and the consequences after that.

  • Boris Johnson isn't an ordinary person.

  • He was to be our foreign secretary.

  • He's that the prime minister in the making, at least in the eyes of some people, is a very influential person.

  • He writes a column in The Telegraph newspaper, so it's not an ordinary person.

  • If he writes that this kind of language it has influence, it will create and give rise to those people who have been waiting with their hatred inside.

  • It gives them the camera phobia.

  • So there's all these people who hate who hate Muslims in this country who are just waiting for Boris Johnson to set.

  • Write an article about the Danish policy on burgers as an excuse to go around, say, tearing burgers or kneecaps off Muslim women walking along the street.

  • Minding our own business.

  • It could be it's a buyer.

  • People is called incitement.

  • Alright, let's think he's been accused of causing offence.

  • Now I'm gonna put it to you as a British woman.

  • I find it offensive that any woman would wear a burka or kneecap.

  • A regular people don't know.

  • Kneecap is where you can just see it.

  • Since the state of the ice burke of the whole face is covered, it'll grill that people see through but with women conceive through Bender, where these things obviously Ah, I find a defensive.

  • I probably walked, passed a woman wearing either a burka road kneecap.

  • Most days in central London, I find I find that offensive.

  • I don't think it should be allowed.

  • I think that it should be banned in public places in this country that we should follow Bo Germond, under Mark and in France, Onda have a band as well, because I think it sends out a very, very unpleasant message about the relationship between men and women and is very oppressive on.

  • I don't think it's ever a viable free choice that any woman would make off her own free will if she hadn't been indoctrinated interview, thinking that she had to cover up to engender getting respect from men.

  • So I'm offended by a woman wearing a burqa, aka or a kneecap.

  • So do I have a rightto have you know, imams apologized to me for seeing that where people are demanding that Boris should apologize for using words that accurately, if not very pleasantly, described the appearance of a burger in a cap.

  • But I'm not allowed to serve.

  • Apparently be offended by someone wearing the actual garment.

  • Do you see how a lot of people might find that a bit strange?

  • No, because you're comparing an apple and a pair.

  • What you see with your eyes, your choice to walk away.

  • No, I tell you, if I'm sitting on the train opposite a lady wearing a burqa on or the other way around, if a woman was walking around scantily dressed, do I have to write to not see?

  • No, Because I will see them.

  • Inevitably, ultimately.

  • But you don't think women should walk around scantily dressed to you?

  • No, I don't know.

  • Do you think there should be rules about that?

  • I think so.

  • You think?

  • What sort of what?

  • What, what?

  • What would you count?

  • A scantily dressed on?

  • What would you count is acceptable?

  • Just so I've got 19 I think, For example, we already have a rule in this country which, if you're walking around scantily dressed, you could be arrested for it.

  • I'm at least if you're looking at, we give you if you're walking around in certain areas.

  • If you walk into the parliament scantily dressed, I don't think you'll be allowed.

  • I don't think you'll be allowed.

  • When?

  • When you say when you use the word scantily dressed, What do you talk about?

  • A woman wearing a bikini Or maybe a woman wearing a vest in it and a mini skirt.

  • What would give me a clear what you're talking about?

  • I'll give you a very good example.

  • When I went to Israel, not longer tell in the holy area for the Wailing Wall a Jewish woman came to pray and how skirt was up to her needs.

  • Andi Jewish.

  • I know the Jewish lady who was guarding the area came and stopped her and gave her a longer scarred so they would come up to her ankle.

  • I went to Spain when a lady walked into a Catholic charge without head actual.

  • We're not talking about going to places of worship.

  • We're talking about people walking around the street.

  • If a woman wants to wear a burka or a kneecap in a place of worship that since that's between her and her conscience of golden, however you're walking along public streets in Britain.

  • In my view, I would like to be able to see your face.

  • So your part of society, I could engage with you.

  • We can smile at each other.

  • I know who you are on we and we and we are and you're and you're not saying to me.

  • I'm other than three.

  • Key thing is, you know as well as I do that the Burke of the new pope is not sort of an innocent piece of cloth.

  • It's meaningless.

  • It's not.

  • It's a statement.

  • It's a statement of political ideology rather than religions.

  • Day requirement in Islam for women to wear either Doc Garment as we know, because the vast majority hundreds of millions of Muslim women don't where either need cab or a burka.

  • And we've seen women in places like Afghanistan and Syrian Iraq when they're finally freed from wearing it, are delighted to be rid of these garments.

  • But the reality is this.

  • Stop this.

  • This garment is there purely because a woman must show modesty.

  • Or basically she will be disrespected.

  • So woman must cover her face, cover her body so that a man won't sexually assault her.

  • Not that to me, Would you say, What do you say to a woman who wear the same morcott type of clothing in sub Saharan Africa's and in Middle East on they're not Muslims.

  • Okay, that's my whole point.

  • It's nothing to do with Islam.

  • It's a it's a cultural thing.

  • I'm sure that wearing that closing in the middle of a desert might be quite practical, but it's not very practical in central Manchester or London.

  • The alarm didn't finish my sentence.

  • I mean, if you stick to your point and then I will if people have a choice.

  • The choices that they can choose, whatever they want to wear.

  • That's what our democracy is about.

  • And that's what we're celebrating.

  • You can't wear about.

  • I love walking down the street.

  • You can always good for a second.

  • I have as a person personal choices, likes and dislikes.

  • I should keep them to myself or in a civilized way, have a discussion, that conversation.

  • But if I called Boris Johnson a mop head for his hairstyle, if I call people wearing short clothes, perhaps there's tart.

  • I think I'm being insulting deliberately.

  • There's no need for that.

  • I know we're not talking vaginal.

  • No, no.

  • Answer the question.

  • I've been the point about the guns.

  • These are not.

  • This is not the same as someone wearing a white T shirt or a blue T shirt.

  • These are statements off particular values.

  • Yes, I've spoken to dozens of women who wear burkas, and they don't say it's a It's a political ideology.

  • This is women who are wearing the women who are wearing this garment in the U.

  • K.

  • Today.

  • It is it is a statement of a political extremist ideology, and you know that because the vast majority of most of women in this world do not wear the Burka handicap.

  • For this reason, I personally do not support Islamically speaking, wearing office cover.

  • And personally I don't.

  • But I'm a man.

  • I have nothing to do with what I like it or not.

  • A woman had a choice to decide and she has the right to decide what she wants to wear.

  • It would be wrong of me to say that you're right.

  • You just said you thought we should have rules about women being scanned, not being allowed to be scantily dressed in the street with a man's opinion.

  • I have an opinion, right?

  • I can ask you, would you, as a woman, please allow me to finish?

  • A woman has a right to choose what she wants to wear.

  • I believe the strength of our democracy.

  • Secondly, for you to suggest that every Muslim woman who was wearing a niqab face covering is making a political statement.

  • I think it's not correct.

  • It is a political statement.

  • You have you spoken to them and you know, I don't got harassing women walking on the street?

  • No.

  • Funnily enough, I didn't Don't don't make a sound about their intentions.

  • No, I'm saying no, I'm not saying their intentions.

  • It is and statement of a political ideology.

  • But this is not a requirement.

  • Is not?

  • It is Hundreds of woman who come from very rule background in many parts of the world don't even understand what you're talking about.

  • They're just doing it because of their cultural.

  • Yes, But that way then, of a making a choice.

  • If they've been told all their lives that basically if you don't cover up, you're basically a whore and you deserve to be raped.

  • You got any man and any man could do anything He wants you because you don't deserve respect.

  • In what way they choosing to wear that government.

  • How do you know?

  • They've been told that.

  • You just told me this.

  • Women coming from back.

  • What?

  • You just said that coming from thes air backwards places where they don't have any different.

  • It's a car did not have been used.

  • The word backwards.

  • I had very rural places.

  • I used a group of using the word backwards.

  • You can, but they don't say I said it.

  • You were saying these things.

  • My statement was very clear, I said, Woman who would make a choice.

  • They make a choice because they want to wear what they want to wear in our country, in Britain, in a free country where we can do what we want to do within our law.

  • Yes, I'm saying that we should change the law.

  • That's what I just Can I ask you if you are saying a woman is being forced into wearing way?

  • No, I didn't say that.

  • This is my question.

  • Their final question to original.

  • You're saying this is a woman's choice.

  • And again, I think all of our choices are limited.

  • You got there certain things you can't walk around wearing or about closing you are required to wear before we get arrested.

  • However, do you think a man would use as a Muslim?

  • Would you ever choose to wear basically a big shout?

  • A sheet covering your entire face and body day in, day out, Whenever in the public sphere.

  • Hold on.

  • No, no.

  • Why?

  • Why is that?

  • But I personally don't like certain ways of personally ill.

  • You'd find a depressive, wouldn't you?

  • To basically have something hanging over your face the entire time you would not do so.

  • What?

  • Why would any rational human being man or woman?

  • You see?

  • Oh, you you can argue with them.

  • He had put your case.

  • I felt a bit.

  • Doesn't love into it without quoting the robber or electable?

  • No, I didn't call them letter, but he said they looked like which they do the substance.

  • The substance of our argument is if you disagree with the KOB, put your case forward nicely, politely, robustly.

  • Family.

  • If you disagree with a woman's choice to wear whatever she wants, argue about without personalizing the argument on dhe without calling them names.

  • You know there's a very nice A people off big mind and substance.

  • Talk about the topics and issues and people of small minded, no substance talk about persons, and Boris Johnson has again proven the point.

  • And that is when he loses, he personalizes the debate.

  • All right, generic in this country, some of phobias on the right.

  • You, yourself as well as many other media commentators, should be very responsible.

  • Well, gadget Well, this is where when you talk about Islamophobia, what you mean is someone criticizing Islam already of the beliefs of Islam or any of the practices of Islam.

  • Now that's not Islamophobia.

  • That's what we do in Western liberal countries.

  • We criticize religions and ideologies.

  • We allowed to question them were allowed to criticize them on DDE.

  • That is part of our democracy and part of our freedom.

  • It's not that it's not a phobia.

  • Excuse me.

  • Would you argue with the Jewish person if they say and the senators of his ex wives that you would No, I would absolutely would absolutely.

  • And I do with my Jewish.

  • But we have a long discussions about this definition of, we know, should someone be allowed to deny the Holocaust or not?

  • We've had long discussions, a passel of the communities have come together and I've come with a definition off anti Semitism and you start you've accepted it.

  • I actually don't accept a hobby and know that there are aspects of that that I don't I think it would depend on the motive of what someone was saying genuine.

  • But we're gonna look, I'm so agile.

  • I debate this with you for three hours, quite happily if it was up to me.