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  • When we ended last time, we were discussing

  • Locke's idea of government by consent and the question arose,

  • "What are the limits on government that even the agreement

  • of the majority can't override?"

  • That was the question we ended with.

  • We saw in the case of property rights

  • that on Locke's view a democratically elected government

  • has the right to tax people.

  • It has to be taxation with consent

  • because it does involve the taking of people's property

  • for the common good but it doesn't require the consent

  • of each individual at the time the tax is enacted or collected.

  • What it does require is a prior act of consent

  • to join the society, to take on the political obligation

  • but once you take on that obligation, you agree to be bound by the majority.

  • So much for taxation. But what you may ask,

  • about the right to life? Can the government conscript people

  • and send them into battle?

  • And what about the idea that we own ourselves?

  • Isn't the idea of self-possession violated if the government can,

  • through coercive legislation and enforcement powers, say

  • "You must go risk your life to fight in Iraq."

  • What would Locke say?

  • Does the government have the right to do that?

  • Yes. In fact he says in 139, he says,

  • "What matters is that the political authority or the military authority

  • not be arbitrary, that's what matters."

  • And he gives a wonderful example.

  • He says "A sergeant, even a sergeant, let alone a general,

  • a sergeant can command a soldier to go right up to a face of a cannon

  • where he is almost sure to die, that the sergeant can do.

  • The general can condemn the soldier to death for deserting his post

  • or for not obeying even a desperate order.

  • But with all their power over life and death, what these officers can't do

  • is take a penny of that soldier's money because that has nothing to do

  • with the rightful authority,

  • that would be arbitrary and it would be corrupt."

  • So consent winds up being very powerful in Locke,

  • not consent of the individual to the particular tax or military order,

  • but consent to join the government and to be bound

  • by the majority in the first place.

  • That's the consent that matters and it matters so powerfully

  • that even the limited government created by the fact

  • that we have an unalienable right to life, liberty, and property,

  • even that limited government is only limited in the sense

  • that it has to govern by generally applicable laws,

  • the rule of law, it can't be arbitrary. That's Locke.

  • Well this raises a question about consent.

  • Why is consent such a powerful moral instrument

  • in creating political authority and the obligation to obey?

  • Today we begin to investigate the question of consent

  • by looking at a concrete case, the case of military conscription.

  • Now some people say if we have a fundamental right

  • that arises from the idea that we own ourselves,

  • it's a violation of that right for government to conscript citizens

  • to go fight in wars. Others disagree.

  • Others say that's a legitimate power of government,

  • of democratically elected governments, anyhow,

  • and that we have an obligation to obey.

  • Let's take the case of the United States fighting a war in Iraq.

  • News accounts tells us that the military is having great difficulty

  • meeting its recruitment targets.

  • Consider three policies that the U.S. government

  • might undertake to deal with the fact

  • that it's not achieving its recruiting targets.

  • Solution number one: increase the pay and benefits

  • to attract a sufficient number of soldiers.

  • Option number two: shift to a system of military conscription,

  • have a lottery, and whose ever numbers are drawn,

  • go to fight in Iraq.

  • System number three: outsource, hire what traditionally

  • have been called mercenaries, people around the world

  • who are qualified, able to do the work,

  • able to fight well, and who are willing to do it

  • for the existing wage.

  • So let's take a quick poll here.

  • How many favor increasing the pay?

  • A huge majority.

  • How many favor going to conscription?

  • Maybe a dozen people in the room favor conscription.

  • What about the outsourcing solution?

  • Okay, so there may be two, three dozen.

  • During the Civil War, the Union used a combination

  • of conscription and the market system to fill the ranks of the military

  • to fight in the Civil War.

  • It was a system that began with conscription

  • but if you were drafted and didn't want to serve,

  • you could hire a substitute to take your place

  • and many people did.

  • You could pay whatever the market required

  • in order to find a substitute, people ran ads in newspapers,

  • in the classified ads offering 500 dollars, sometimes 1000 dollars,

  • for a substitute who would go fight the Civil War

  • in their place.

  • In fact, it's reported that Andrew Carnegie

  • was drafted and hired a substitute to take his place

  • for an amount that was a little less

  • than the amount he spent in the year on fancy cigars.

  • Now I want to get your views about this Civil War system,

  • call it the hybrid system, conscription but with a buyout provision.

  • How many think it was a just system?

  • How many would defend the Civil War system?

  • Anybody? Anybody else?

  • How many think it was unjust?

  • Most of you don't like the Civil War system,

  • you think it's unjust.

  • Let's hear an objection. Why don't you like it?

  • What's wrong with it? Yes.

  • Well by paying $300 to be exempt one time around,

  • you're really putting a price on valuing human life

  • and we established earlier, that's really hard to do

  • so they're trying to accomplish something that really isn't feasible.

  • Good. So paying someone $300 or $500 or $1,000...

  • You're basically saying that's what their life is worth to you.

  • That's what their life is worth, it's putting a dollar value on life.

  • - That's good. What's your name? - Liz.

  • Liz.

  • Well, who has an answer for Liz.

  • You defended the Civil War system, what do you say?

  • If you don't like the price then you have the freedom

  • to not be sold or hired so it's completely up to you.

  • I don't think it's necessarily putting a specific price

  • on you and if it's done by himself, I don't think there's anything

  • that's really morally wrong with that.

  • So the person who takes the $500,

  • let's say, he's putting his own price on his life

  • or on the risk of his life and he should have the freedom

  • to choose to do that.

  • Exactly.

  • - What's your name? - Jason.

  • Jason. Thank you. Now we need to hear

  • from another critic of the Civil War system. Yes.

  • It's a kind of coercion almost, people who have lower incomes,

  • for Carnegie he can totally ignore the draft, $300 is an irrelevant

  • in terms of his income but someone of a lower income,

  • they're essentially being coerced to draft, to be drafted,

  • it's probably they're not able to find a replacement.

  • Tell me your name.

  • Sam.

  • Sam. All right so you say, Sam, that when a poor laborer

  • accepts $300 to fight in the Civil War, he is in effect being coerced

  • by that money given his economic circumstances

  • whereas Carnegie can go off, pay the money, and not serve.

  • Alright. I want to hear someone who has a reply to Sam's argument,

  • that what looks like a free exchange is actually coercive.

  • Who has an answer to Sam? Go ahead.

  • I'd actually agree with him in saying that...

  • You agree with Sam.

  • I agree with him in saying that it is coercion in the sense that it robs individual of his ability to reason.

  • Okay, and what's your name?

  • Raul.

  • All right. So Raul and Sam agree that what looks

  • like a free exchange, free choice, voluntary act

  • actually involves coercion.

  • It's profound coercion of the worst kind

  • because it falls so disproportionately upon one segment of the society.

  • Good. Alright. So Raul and Sam have made a powerful point.

  • Who would like to reply?

  • Who has an answer for Sam and Raul? Go ahead.

  • I don't think that these drafting systems

  • are really terribly different from all volunteer army

  • sort of recruiting strategies.

  • The whole idea of having benefits and pay for joining the army

  • is sort of a coercive strategy to get people to join.

  • It is true that military volunteers come from disproportionately

  • lower economic status and also from certain regions of the country

  • where you can use like patriotism to try and coerce people

  • to feel like it's the right thing to do to volunteer and go over to Iraq.

  • And tell me your name.

  • Emily.

  • Alright, Emily says, and Raul you're going to have to

  • reply to this so get ready.

  • Emily says fair enough, there is a coercive element

  • to the Civil War system when a laborer takes the place

  • of Andrew Carnegie for $500. Emily concedes that but she says

  • if that troubles you about the Civil War system

  • shouldn't that also trouble you about the volunteer army today?

  • Before you answer, how did you vote in the first poll?

  • - Did you defend the volunteer army? - I didn't vote.

  • You didn't vote. By the way,

  • you didn't vote but did you sell your vote

  • to the person sitting next to you? No. Alright.

  • So what would you say to that argument.

  • I think that the circumstances are different in that

  • there was conscription in the Civil War.

  • There is no draft today and I think that volunteers

  • for the army today have a more profound sense of patriotism

  • that is of an individual choice than those who were forced

  • into the military in the Civil War.

  • Somehow less coerced?

  • Less coerced.

  • Even though there is still inequality in American society?

  • Even though, as Emily points out, the makeup of the American military

  • is not reflective of the population as a whole?

  • Let's just do an experiment here. How many here have either served

  • in the military or have a family member who has served in the military

  • in this generation, not parents?

  • Family members. In this generation.

  • And how many have neither served nor have any brothers or sisters who have served?

  • Does that bear out your point Emily?

  • Yes.

  • Alright. Now we need to hear from... most of you defended the idea

  • of the all volunteer military overwhelmingly and yet overwhelmingly,

  • people considered the Civil War system unjust.

  • Sam and Raul articulated reasons for objecting to the Civil War system,

  • it took place against a background of inequality

  • and therefore the choices people made to buy their way in to military service

  • were not truly free but at least partly coerced.

  • Then Emily extends that argument in the form of a challenge.

  • Alright, everyone here who voted in favor

  • of the all volunteer army should be able... should have to explain

  • what's the difference in principle.

  • Doesn't the all volunteer army simply universalize the feature

  • that almost everyone found objectionable in the Civil War buyout provision?

  • Did I state the challenge fairly Emily?

  • Yes.

  • Okay. So we need to hear from a defender

  • of the all volunteer military who can address Emily's challenge.

  • Who can do that? Go ahead.

  • The difference between the Civil War system and the all volunteer army system

  • is that in the Civil War, you're being hired not by the government,

  • but by an individual and as a result, different people who get hired

  • by different individuals get paid different amounts.

  • In the case of the all volunteer army, everyone who gets hired

  • is hired by the government and gets paid the same amount.

  • It's precisely the universalization of essentially paying your way

  • to the army that makes the all volunteer army just.

  • Emily?

  • I guess I'd frame the principle slightly differently.

  • On the all volunteer army, it's possible for somebody

  • to just step aside and not really think

  • about the war at all. It's possible to say,

  • "I don't need the money, I don't need to have an opinion about this,

  • I don't need to feel obligated to take my part and defend my country".

  • With the coercive system, or sorry, with an explicit draft

  • then there's the threat at least that every individual

  • will have to make some sort of decision

  • regarding military conscription and perhaps in that way,

  • it's more equitable.

  • It's true that Andrew Carnegie might not serve in any case but in one,

  • he can completely step aside from it, and the other there's some level of responsibility.

  • While you're there, Emily, so what system do you favor, conscription?

  • I would be hard pressed to say but I think so

  • because it makes the whole country feel a sense of responsibility

  • for the conflict instead of having a war

  • that's maybe ideologically supported by a few but only if there's no real responsibility.

  • Good. Who wants to reply? Go ahead.

  • So I was going to say that the fundamental difference

  • between the all volunteer army and then the army in the Civil War

  • is that in the all volunteer army, if you want to volunteer

  • that comes first and then the pay

  • comes after whereas in the Civil War system,

  • the people who are accepting the pay

  • aren't necessarily doing it because they want to,

  • they're just doing it for the money first.

  • What motivation beyond the pay do you think is operating

  • in the case of the all volunteer army?

  • Like patriotism for the country.

  • Patriotism. Well what about...

  • And a desire to defend the country.

  • There is some motivation in pay but the fact that it's first and foremost

  • an all volunteer army will motivate them first I think, personally.

  • Do you think it's better... And tell me your name.

  • Jackie.

  • Jackie do you think it's better if people serve in the military

  • out of a sense of patriotism than just for the money?

  • Yes, definitely because the people who... That was one of the main problems

  • in the Civil War is that the people

  • that you're getting to go in it to go to war

  • aren't necessarily people who want to fight

  • and so they won't be as good soldiers as they will be

  • had they been there because they wanted to be.

  • Alright, what about Jackie's having raised the question of patriotism,

  • that patriotism is a better or a higher motivation

  • than money for military service.

  • Who would like to address that question? Go ahead.

  • Patriotism absolutely is not necessary in order to be a good soldier

  • because mercenaries can do just as good of a job

  • as anyone who waves the American flag around and wants to defend

  • what the government believes that we should do.

  • Did you favor the outsourcing solution?

  • Yes sir.

  • Alright, so let Jackie respond. What's your name?

  • Philip.

  • What about that Jackie? So much for patriotism.

  • If you've got someone whose heart is in it

  • more than another person, they're going to do a better job.

  • When it comes down to the wire and there's like a situation

  • in which someone has to put their life on the line,

  • someone who's doing it because they love this country

  • will be more willing to go into danger

  • than someone who's just getting paid. They don't care.

  • They've got the technical skills but they don't care what happens

  • because they really have... they have nothing

  • like nothing invested in this country.

  • There's another aspect though once we get on to the issue of patriotism.

  • If you believe patriotism, as Jackie does,

  • should be the foremost consideration and not money,

  • does that argue for or against the paid army we have now?

  • We call it the volunteer army though if you think about it,

  • that's a kind of misnomer. A volunteer army as we use the term,

  • is a paid army.

  • So what about the suggestion that patriotism should be

  • the primary motivation for military service not money?

  • Does that argue in favor of the paid military

  • that we have or does it argue for conscription?

  • And just to sharpen that point building on Phil's case for outsourcing,

  • if you think that the all volunteer army, the paid army,

  • is best because it lets the market allocate positions

  • according to people's preferences and willingness to serve

  • for a certain wage, doesn't the logic that takes you

  • from a system of conscription to the hybrid Civil War system

  • to the all volunteer army, doesn't the idea of expanding

  • freedom of choice in the market, doesn't that lead you

  • all the way if you followed that principle consistently to a mercenary army?

  • And then if you say no, Jackie says no,

  • patriotism should count for something, doesn't that argue

  • for going back to conscription if by patriotism,

  • you mean a sense of civic obligation?

  • Let's see if we can step back from the discussion

  • that we've had and see what we've learned

  • about consent as it applies to market exchange.

  • We've really heard two arguments, two arguments against the use of markets

  • and exchange in the allocation of military service.

  • One was the argument raised by Sam and Raul,

  • the argument about coercion, the objection that letting the market

  • allocate military service may be unfair

  • and may not even be free if there's severe inequality

  • in the society so that people who buy their way into military service

  • are doing so not because they really want to but because they have so few

  • economic opportunities that that's their best choice

  • and Sam and Raul say there's an element of coercion in that.

  • That's one argument.

  • Then there is a second objection to using the market

  • to allocate military service, that's the idea that military service

  • shouldn't be treated as just another job for pay

  • because it's bound up with patriotism and civic obligation.

  • This is a different argument from the argument about

  • unfairness and inequality and coercion,

  • it's an argument that suggests that maybe

  • where civic obligations are concerned, we shouldn't allocate

  • duties and rights by the market.

  • Now we've identified two broad objections.

  • What do we need to know to assess those objections?

  • To assess the first, the argument from

  • coercion, inequality, and unfairness, Sam, we need to ask

  • what inequalities in the background conditions of society undermine

  • the freedom of choices people make to buy and sell their labor,

  • question number one.

  • Question number two: to assess the civic obligation patriotism.

  • Argument: we have to ask what are the obligations of citizenship?

  • Is military service one of them or not?

  • What obligates us as citizens?

  • What is the source of political obligation?

  • Is it consent or are there some civic obligations

  • we have, even without consent, for living and sharing in a certain kind of society?

  • We haven't answered either of those questions

  • but our debate today about the Civil War system

  • and the all volunteer army has at least raised them

  • and those are questions we're going to return to in the coming weeks.

  • Today I'd like to turn our attention and get your views about an argument

  • over the role of markets in the realm of human reproduction and procreation.

  • Now with infertility clinics, people advertise for egg donors

  • and from time to time, in the Harvard Crimson

  • ads appear for egg donors. Have you seen them?

  • There was one that ran a few years ago

  • that wasn't looking for just any egg donor, it was an ad that offered

  • a large financial incentive for an egg donor

  • from a woman who was intelligent, athletic, at least 5'10",

  • and with at least 1400 or above on her SATs.

  • How much do you think the person looking for this egg donor

  • was willing to pay for an egg from a woman of that description?

  • What would you guess? A thousand dollars?

  • Fifteen thousand? Ten? I'll show you the ad.

  • Fifty thousand dollars for an egg but only a premium egg.

  • What do you think about that?

  • Well there are also sometimes ads in the Harvard Crimson

  • and the other college newspapers for sperm donors.

  • So the market in reproductive capacities is an equal opportunity market,

  • well, not exactly equal opportunity, they're not offering $50,000 for a sperm

  • but there is a company, a large commercial sperm bank

  • that markets sperm, it's called California Cryobank,

  • it's a for-profit company, it imposes exacting standards

  • on the sperm it recruits, and it has offices in Cambridge,

  • between Harvard and MIT, and in Palo Alto near Stanford.

  • Cryobank's marketing materials play up the prestigious source of its sperm.

  • Here is, from the website of Cryobank, the information.

  • Here they talk about the compensation

  • although compensation should not be the only reason

  • for becoming a sperm donor, we are aware of the considerable time

  • and expense involved in being a donor.

  • So do you know what they offer? Donors will be reimbursed $75 per specimen,

  • up to $900 a month if you donate three times a week,

  • and then they add "We periodically offer incentives

  • such as movie tickets or gift certificates for the extra time and effort

  • expended by participating donors."

  • It's not easy to be a sperm donor.

  • They accept fewer than five percent of the donors who apply.

  • Their admission criteria are more demanding than Harvard's.

  • The head of the sperm bank said the ideal sperm donor

  • is 6 feet tall, with a college degree, brown eyes, blond hair,

  • and dimples for the simple reason that these are the traits

  • that the market has shown that customers want.

  • Quoting the head of the sperm bank, "If our customers wanted high school dropouts,

  • we would give them high school dropouts."

  • So here are two instances, the market in eggs for donation

  • and the market in sperm, that raise a question,

  • a question about whether eggs and sperm

  • should or should not be bought and sold for money.

  • As you ponder that, I want you to consider

  • another case involving market and in fact a contract

  • in the human reproductive capacity and this is the case

  • of commercial surrogate motherhood, and it's a case that wound up

  • in court some years ago.

  • It's the story of Baby M.

  • It began with William and Elizabeth Stern, a professional couple wanting a baby

  • but they couldn't have one on their own,

  • at least not without medical risk to Mrs. Stern.

  • They went to an infertility clinic where they met Mary Beth Whitehead,

  • a 29-year-old mother of two, the wife of a sanitation worker.

  • She had replied to an ad that The Standard had placed seeking the service

  • of a surrogate mother. They made a deal.

  • They signed a contract in which William Stern

  • agreed to pay Mary Beth Whitehead a $10,000 fee

  • plus all expenses in exchange for which Mary Beth Whitehead

  • agreed to be artificially inseminated with William Stern's sperm,

  • to bear the child, and then to give the baby to the Sterns.

  • Well, you probably know how the story unfolded.

  • Mary Beth gave birth and changed her mind,

  • she decided she wanted to keep the baby.

  • The case wound up in court in New Jersey.

  • So let's take, put aside any legal questions,

  • and focus on this issue as a moral question.

  • How many believe that the right thing to do in the Baby M case,

  • would have been to uphold the contract, to enforce the contract?

  • And how many think the right thing to do

  • would have been not to enforce that contract?

  • The majority say enforce so let's now hear the reasons

  • that people had, either for enforcing or refusing

  • to enforce this contract.

  • First I want to hear from someone in the majority.

  • Why do you uphold the contract? Why do you enforce it?

  • Who can offer a reason? Yes. Stand up.

  • It's a binding contract, all the parties involved

  • knew the terms of the contract before any action was taken,

  • it's a voluntary agreement, the mother knew what she was getting into,

  • all four intelligent adults, regardless of formal education, whatever.

  • So it makes sense that if you know that you're getting into beforehand

  • and you make a promise, you should uphold that promise in the end.

  • Okay, a deal is a deal in other words.

  • - Exactly. - And what's your name?

  • Patrick.

  • Is Patrick's reason the reason that most of you in the majority

  • favored upholding the contract? Yes? Alright, let's hear now someone

  • who would not enforce the contract.

  • What do you say to Patrick? Why not? Yes.

  • Well, I mean, I agree, I think contracts should be upheld

  • when all the parties know all the information but in this case,

  • I don't think there's a way a mother, before the child exists,

  • could actually know how she's going to feel about that child

  • so I don't think the mother actually had all the information.

  • She didn't know the person that was going to be born

  • and didn't know how much she would love that person so that's my argument.

  • So you would not, and what's your name?

  • Evan Wilson.

  • Evan says he would not uphold the contract because when it was entered into

  • the surrogate mother couldn't be expected to know in advance

  • how she would feel so she didn't really have the relevant information

  • when she made that contract.

  • Who else? Who else would not uphold the contract? Yes.

  • I also think that a contract should generally be upheld

  • but I think that the child has an inalienable right to its actual mother

  • and I think that if that mother wants it then that child

  • should have the right to that mother.

  • You mean the biological mother not the adoptive mother?

  • Right.

  • And why is that? First of all, tell me your name.

  • Anna.

  • Anna. Why is that Anna?

  • Because I think that that bond is created by nature

  • is stronger than any bond that is created by a contract.

  • Good. Thank you. Who else? Yes.

  • I disagree. I don't think that a child has an inalienable right

  • to her biological mother.

  • I think that adoption and surrogacy are both legitimate tradeoffs

  • and I agree with the point made that it's a voluntary agreement,

  • the individual who made it, it's a voluntary agreement

  • and you can't apply coercion to this argument.

  • You can't apply the objection from coercion to this argument?

  • Correct.

  • - What's your name? - Kathleen.

  • Kathleen, what do you say to Evan that though there may not have been add

  • Evan claimed that the consent was tainted not by coercion

  • but by lack of adequate information. She couldn't have known

  • the relevant information namely how she would feel about the child.

  • What do you say to that?

  • I don't think the emotional content of her feelings plays into this.

  • I think in a case of law, in the justice of this scenario,

  • her change of feelings are not relevant.

  • If I give up my child for adoption and then I decide later on

  • that I really want that child back, too bad, it's a tradeoff,

  • it's a tradeoff that the mother has made.

  • So a deal is a deal, you agree with Patrick?

  • I agree with Patrick, a deal's a deal.

  • A deal is a deal.

  • - Yes. - Good. Yes.

  • I would say that though I'm not really sure if I agree

  • with the idea that the child has a right to their mother.

  • I think the mother definitely has a right to her child

  • and I also think that there's some areas where market forces

  • shouldn't necessarily penetrate.

  • I think that the whole surrogate mother area

  • smacks a little bit of dealing in human beings seems dehumanizing.

  • It doesn't really seem right so that's my main reason.

  • And what is... could you tell us your name.

  • I'm Andrew.

  • Andrew, what is dehumanizing about buying and selling the right to a child, for money,

  • what is dehumanizing about it?

  • Well because you're buying someone's biological right.

  • I mean you can't... in the law as it stated, you can't sell your own child

  • like were you to have a child, I'd believe that the law

  • prohibits you selling it to another person or...

  • So this like baby selling?

  • Right. To a certain extent.

  • Though there's a contract with another person,

  • you've made agreements and what not, there is an undeniable emotional bond

  • that takes place between the mother and the child and it's wrong

  • to simply ignore this because you've written out something contractually.

  • Right. You want to reply to Andrew? Stay there.

  • You point out there's an undeniable emotional bond,

  • I feel like in this situation, we're not necessarily arguing

  • against adoption or surrogacy in itself, we're just sort of

  • pointing out the emotional differences.

  • But wait, I mean, it's easy to break everything down

  • to numbers and say "Oh, we have contracts,"

  • like you're buying or selling a car but there are underlying emotions,

  • I mean, you're dealing with people, these are not objects to be bought and sold.

  • Alright. What about Andrew's claim that this is like baby selling.

  • I believe that adoption and surrogacy should be permitted,

  • whether or not I actually will partake in it is not really relevant

  • but I think that the government should, the government should

  • give its citizens the rights to allow for adoption and surrogacy.

  • But adoption is... adoption is not according to...

  • Is adoption baby selling?

  • Well, do you think you should be able to bid for a baby that's up for adoption?

  • That's Andrew's challenge.

  • Do I think I should be able to bid for a baby?

  • I'm not... Sure! It's a market, I feel the extent to which it's been applied

  • and I'm not sure if the government should be able to permit it

  • and I have to think about it more but...

  • Alright. Fair enough. Are you satisfied Andrew?

  • Well, yeah, I mean, I think surrogacy should be permitted.

  • I think that people can do it but I don't think that it should be

  • forced upon people that once a contract is signed,

  • it's absolutely the end all. I think that it's unenforceable.

  • So people should be free Andrew to enter into these contracts

  • but it should not be enforceable in the court.

  • Not in the court, no.

  • Who would like to turn on one side or the other? Yes.

  • I think I have an interesting perspective on this because my brother

  • was actually one of the people who donated to a sperm bank

  • and he was paid a very large amount of money,

  • he was six feet tall but not blond, he had dimples though.

  • So he actually has, I'm an aunt now, he has a daughter,

  • he donated his sperm to a lesbian couple in Oklahoma and he has been

  • contacted by them and he has seen pictures of his daughter but he still

  • does not feel an emotional bond to his daughter,

  • he just has a sense of curiosity about what she looks like

  • and what she's doing and how she is.

  • He doesn't feel love for his child, so from this experience,

  • I think the bond between a mother and a child cannot be compared

  • to the bond between the father and the child.

  • That's really interesting. What's your name?

  • Vivian.

  • Vivian. So we've got the case of surrogacy, commercial surrogacy,

  • and it's been compared to baby selling and we've been exploring

  • whether that analogy is apt and it can also be compared,

  • as you point out, to sperm selling. But you're saying that sperm selling and baby selling

  • or even surrogacy are very different because...

  • Yes, they're unequal services.

  • They're unequal services and that's because Vivian,

  • you say that the tie, the bond...

  • Yes, and also the time investment that's given by a mother,

  • nine months, cannot be compared to a man going into a sperm bank,

  • looking at pornography, depositing into a cup.

  • I don't think those are equal.

  • Good. Alright. So we...

  • Because that's what happens in a sperm bank.

  • Alright. So this is really interesting, we have... notice the arguments

  • that have come out so far.

  • The objections to surrogacy, the objections to enforcing

  • that contract are of at least two kinds.

  • There was the objection about tainted consent,

  • this time not because of coercion or implicit coercion

  • but because of imperfect or flawed information.

  • So tainted or flawed consent can arise either because of coercion

  • or because of a lack of relevant information,

  • at least according to one argument that we've heard

  • and then a second objection to enforcing the surrogacy contract

  • was that it was somehow dehumanizing.

  • Now when this case was decided by the courts,

  • what did they say about these arguments?

  • The lower court ruled that the contract was enforceable,

  • neither party had a superior bargaining position.

  • A price for the service was struck and a bargain was reached.

  • One side didn't force the other neither had disproportionate bargaining power.

  • Then it went to the New Jersey Supreme Court.

  • And what did they do? They said this contract is not enforceable.

  • They did grant custody to Mr. Stern as the father

  • because they thought that would be in the best interest of the child

  • but they restored the rights of Mary Beth Whitehead

  • and left it to lower courts to decide exactly what the visitation rights should be.

  • They invoked two different kinds of reasons, along the lines that Andrew proposed.

  • First, there was not sufficiently informed consent, the court argued.

  • "Under the contract the natural mother is irrevocably committed

  • before she knows the strength of her bond with her child,

  • she never makes a truly voluntary informed decision for any decision

  • prior to the baby's birth is in the most important sense,

  • uninformed," that was the court.

  • Then the court also made a version of the second argument

  • against commodification in this kind of case "this is the sale of a child,"

  • the court said, "or at the very least, the sale of a mother's right to her child.

  • Whatever idealism may motivate the participants, the profit motive predominates

  • permeates, and ultimately governs the transaction."

  • And so regardless, the court said,

  • regardless of any argument about consent or flawed consent

  • or full information, there are some things in a civilized society

  • that money can't buy, that's what the court said

  • in voiding this contract.

  • Well, what about these two arguments against the extension of markets

  • to procreation and to reproduction?

  • How persuasive are they? There was... it's true, a voluntary agreement,

  • a contract struck between William Stern and Mary Beth Whitehead.

  • But there are at least two ways that consent can be other than truly free.

  • First, if people are pressured or coerced to give their agreement

  • and second, if their consent is not truly informed

  • and in the case of surrogacy, the court said a mother can't know,

  • even one who already has kids of her own,

  • what it would be like to bear a child and give it up for pay.

  • So in order to assess criticism, objection number one,

  • we have to figure out just how free does a voluntary exchange

  • have to be with respect to the bargaining power and equal information

  • Question number one: how do we assess the second objection?

  • The second objection is more elusive, it's more difficult.

  • Andrew acknowledged this, right? What does it mean to say

  • there is something dehumanizing to make childbearing a market transaction?

  • Well, one of the philosophers we read on this subject, Elizabeth Anderson,

  • tries to brings some philosophical clarity to the unease that Andrew articulated.

  • She said "by requiring the surrogate mother to repress whatever parental love

  • she feels for the child, surrogacy contracts

  • convert women's labor into a form of alienated labor.

  • The surrogate's labor is alienated because she must divert it

  • from the end which the social practices of pregnancy rightly promote,

  • namely an emotional bond with her child."

  • So what Anderson is suggesting is that certain goods should not be treated

  • as open to use or to profit.

  • Certain goods are properly valued in ways other than use.

  • What are other ways of valuing and treating goods

  • that should not be open to use?

  • Anderson says there are many: respect, appreciation,

  • love, honor, awe, sanctity.

  • There are many modes of valuation beyond use and certain goods

  • are not properly valued if they're treated simply as objects of use.

  • How do we go about evaluating that argument of Anderson?

  • In a way, it takes us back to the debate we had with utilitarianism.

  • Is utility... is use the only proper way of treating goods,

  • including life, military service, procreation, childbearing?

  • And if not, how do we figure out?

  • How can we determine what modes of valuation

  • are fitting or appropriate to those goods?

  • Several years ago there was a scandal surrounding a doctor,

  • an infertility specialist in Virginia named Cecil Jacobson.

  • He didn't have a donor catalogue because unknown to his patients,

  • all of the sperm he used to inseminate his patients came from one donor,

  • Dr. Jacobson himself.

  • At least one woman who testified in court was unnerved at how much

  • her newborn daughter looked just like him.

  • Now it's possible to condemn Dr. Jacobson for failing

  • to inform the women in advance that would be the argument about consent.

  • The columnist, Ellen Goodman, described the bizarre scenario as follows,

  • "Dr. Jacobson," she wrote "gave his infertility business

  • the personal touch but now the rest of us,"

  • she wrote "are in for a round of second thoughts about sperm donation."

  • Goodman concluded that fatherhood should be something you do,

  • not something you donate. And I think what she was doing

  • and what the philosopher Elizabeth Anderson is doing

  • and what Andrew was suggesting with his argument about dehumanization

  • is pondering whether there are certain goods

  • that money shouldn't buy, not just because of tainted consent

  • but also perhaps because certain goods are properly valued

  • in a way higher than mere use.

  • Those at least are the questions we're going to pursue

  • with the help of some philosophers in the weeks to come.

When we ended last time, we were discussing

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