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  • Okay, well I thought this time that I would actually

  • cover some of the biblical stories.

  • So, and, hopefully a number of them. Um.

  • As I said last time, I'm going to go through this,

  • well, as fast as I am able to,

  • I want to do as complete a job as possible

  • and of course, the probability that I'll get through the entire Bible is very low.

  • But we'll get through a lot of the major stories in the beginning of it

  • and that's a good start.

  • And then, you know, assuming that this all goes well

  • then maybe I'll try to do the same thing again either in the fall or next year.

  • Assuming everything is still working out properly next year.

  • It's a long ways away.

  • Alright, so...

  • I guess we'll start.

  • So, last week I talked to you about a line in the New Testament that was from John,

  • and it was line that was designed to parallel the opening of Genesis.

  • And it's a really important line and I thought

  • I would reemphasize it.

  • Because the Bible is a book that's been written

  • forward and backwards in time,

  • in some sense, like most books.

  • Because if you write a book, of course,

  • when you get to the end, if you're the writer,

  • you can adjust the beginning and so on.

  • So it has this odd appearence of linearity

  • but it really isn't linear.

  • It's like you're God, in some sense,

  • standing outside of time,

  • that's your book,

  • and you can play with time anywhere along it.

  • And the people who put the books together took full advantage of that,

  • and that makes the story...

  • It gives the story odd parallels in many, many places

  • And this is one of the major parallels, at least

  • from the perspective of the Christian interpretation of the Bible,

  • which of course includes the New Testament.

  • And so, there's this strange idea

  • that Christ was the same factor or force

  • that God used at the beginning of time to speak habitable order into being.

  • And that's a very very strange idea,

  • you know,

  • it's not something that can be just easily dimissed as superstition

  • partly because it's so strange.

  • It doesn't even fit the definiton of a superstitious belief.

  • It's a dream-like belief, in some sense,

  • and what I see many of the ideas in the Bible as

  • is these dream-like ideas that

  • underlie our normative cognition and

  • that constitute the ground from which our more

  • articulated and explicit ideas have emerged.

  • And this one idea is so complicated that it's still mostly embedded in dream-like form

  • But it seems to have something to do with the primacy of consciousness,

  • and this is one of the biggest issues regarding the structure of reality,

  • as far as I can tell,

  • because everyone from physicists to neurobiologists debates this.

  • The stumbling block for a purely objective view of the world seems to me to be consciousness.

  • And consciousness has all sorts of strange properties, for example:

  • it isn't obvious what constitutes time or at least duration in the absence of consciousness.

  • And it isn't also easy to understand what constitutes Being in the absence of consciousness,

  • because it seems to be the case...

  • Well, if a movie is running, and there's no one to watch it

  • - I know it sound like the tree in a forest idea, but it's not that idea at all -

  • if a movie is running and no one's watching it,

  • then in what sense can you say that there's even a movie running?

  • Because the movie seems to be the experience of the movie,

  • not the objective elements of the movie.

  • And there's something about the world, at least insofar as we're in it as human beings,

  • that is dependent on conscious experience of the world.

  • Now, of course, you can take consciousness out of the world and say:

  • well, if none of us were here, if there was no such thing as consciousness,

  • then the cosmos would continue running the way it is running,

  • but, of course, it depends on what exactly you mean by the cosmos

  • when you make a statement like that,

  • because there's something about the subjective experience of reality

  • that gives it reality.

  • Or at least that's one way of looking at it.

  • And since we're all pretty enamored of our own consciousnesses,

  • although they're painful, because they define our Being,

  • it's not unreasonable to give consciousness a kind of metaphysical primacy.

  • And it's a deeper idea than that,

  • because there are physicists and they're not trivial physicists,

  • like John Wheeler,

  • who believes that in some sense consciousness plays a constitutive role

  • in transforming the chaotic potential of being into the actuality of Being.

  • He actually thinks about it - he's not alive anymore, but

  • he actually thought about it as playing a constitutive role.

  • And then, from the neurobiological perspective,

  • or from the scientific perspective,

  • counsciousness is not something we understand,

  • I don't think we understand it at all.

  • It's something we can't get a handle on

  • with our fundamental materialist philosophy.

  • And I don't know why that is.

  • It's quite frustrating if you're a scientist, but it isn't clear to me

  • that we've made any progress whatsoever in understanding consciousness,

  • even though, well, we've been trying to understand it for hundreds of years

  • and even though psychologists and neurobiologists and so forth

  • have really put a lot of effort into understanding consciousness from a scientific perspective

  • in the last 50 years.

  • Anyways, what seems to me is the idea

  • that God used the Word to extract habitable order out of chaos

  • at the beginning of time, which is roughly the right way of thinking about it,

  • seems to me deeply allied with the idea that

  • what it is that we do as human beings is encounter something like a formless and potential chaos,

  • I mean, we're not omniscient, obviously, and we can't just do whatever we want,

  • but we encounter a formless and chaotic potential.

  • That's always what we're grappling with

  • and somehow we use our consciousness to give that form,

  • and this is how people act.

  • Like, if you look at how they regard themselves, it's how they act,

  • because you say things to people, like: You shoud live up to your potential.

  • And you make a case that there's something about a person

  • that's more than what is, that yet could be,

  • if only they participated in the process properly.

  • And everyone knows what that means, no one acts like a mystery has been uttered

  • when you say that.

  • And you can see a situation in your own life that's full of potential,

  • you're often extremely excited when you encounter something that's full of potential

  • because what you see is something what could be, you see a future beckoning for you,

  • that could be if only you interacted with it properly,

  • and it activates your nervous system, in a very basic way

  • we even understand how that happens, to the degree that we understand how the nervous system works

  • because the systems that mediate positive emotion,

  • which are governed roughly by the neurochemical dopamine

  • and which have their roots way down in the ancient hypothalamus,

  • a very very archaic and fundamental part of the brain,

  • that responds to potential, which is the possibility of accruing something new and valuable,

  • it responds to potential with active movement forward and engagement,

  • and so we're engaged in the world that has potential and it looks like consciousness does that.

  • And so there's this idea that -

  • - and this is the main idea that I think is being put forth in Genesis I -

  • it's something like -

  • and you see this in mythology:

  • from what I've been able to gather, there's always three causal elements

  • that make up Being at the bottom of world mythology:

  • One is the formless potential that makes up Being once it's interacted with,

  • and that's generally given a feminine nature,

  • and I think that's because it's like the source from which all things emerge and rise.

  • It's something like that, it's more complicated than that, but it's something like that.

  • And then there's some kind of interpretive structure

  • that has to grapple with that formless potential,

  • and I think that's the sort of thing that was alluded to

  • by Immanuel Kant when he was criticizing the notion

  • that all of our information comes from sense data,

  • which would be the pure empirical perspective.

  • Because when you encounter the world,

  • you encounter it with that cognitive structure that already has shape,

  • and so it's already in you, this structure,

  • and without that a priori structure you wouldn't be able to

  • take the formless potential and give it structure

  • and I think that's akin in some way to the idea of God the Father,

  • and I'll try to develop that idea more,

  • it's the notion that there's something in all of us,

  • that transcends all of us, that's deeply structural,

  • that's part of this ancient, I would say evolutionary and cultural process,

  • that enables us to grapple with the formless potential and bring forth reality, roughly speaking.

  • And then there's the final element, and that element seems to be

  • something like consciousness itself, the consciousness that actually inheres in the individual,

  • so it's not only that you have a structure, it's that the structure has the capacity for action in the world.

  • And it's like...

  • You're the spirit that gives the dead structure life, it's something like that.

  • And, as far as I can tell, the triniterian notion that characterizes Christianity

  • is something like formless potential, which is never given the status of a deity in Christianity,

  • and then the notion that there's an a priori interpretive structure

  • that's a consequence of our ancient existence as Beings,

  • it goes back as far in time as you can go, the notion of a structure.

  • And then the idea of a consciousness that is the tool of that structure

  • and that interacts with the world and gives it reality.

  • And that's the Word, as far as I can tell,

  • and so the notion is that there's a father - and that's the structure - and that there's a son that's transcendent,

  • that characterizes consciousness itself,

  • and that it's the son - the speaking of the son - that is the active principle that turns chaos into order.

  • That's such a sophisticated idea, as far as I'm concerned,

  • because while there's something about it at least phenomenologically accurate,

  • because you do have an interpretive structure and you couldn't understand anything without it,

  • your very body is an interpretive structure, it's been crafted over, let's say, three billion years of evolution,

  • without that, you wouldn't be able to perceive anything

  • and it's taken a lot of death and struggle and tragedy to produce

  • you, the thing that's capable of encountering this immense chaos that surrounds us

  • and to transform it into habitable order.

  • And then there's the idea, too, of course, that's deeply embedded in the first chapters of Genesis,

  • which is a staggering idea, you know,

  • and certainly not one that's likely,

  • that human beings were made in the image of God,

  • both male and female were made in the image of God,

  • and that's of course a very difficult thing to understand,

  • partly because the God that's referred to in those chapters has a kind of polytheistic element

  • although it's an element that's moving rapidly towards a unified monotheism,

  • but it's not also obvious to me why people would come up with that concept,

  • because I don't really think that when we think about each other we immediately think godlike,

  • you know, the notion that every single human being,

  • regardless of their peculiarities and strangenesses and sins and crimes and all of that,

  • has something divine in them that needs to be regarded with respect,

  • and that plays an integral role, at least an analogous role,

  • in the creation of habitable order out of chaos,

  • that's a magnificent, remarkable, crazy idea,

  • and yet we developed it, and I do firmly believe that it sits at the base of our legal system,

  • I think it is the cornerstone of our legal system.

  • That's the notion that everyone is equal before God, which is, of course,

  • a completely strange idea, it's very difficult to understand

  • how anybody could have ever come up with that idea,

  • because the manifold differences between people are so obvious and so evident

  • that you could say the natural way of viewing human beings is in this extremely hierarchical manner,

  • where some people are contemptible and easily brushed off

  • as pointless and pathological and without value whatsoever.

  • And all the power accrues to a certain tiny aristocratic minority at the top.

  • But if you look at the way that the idea of the individual sovereignty developed,

  • it's clear that it unfolded over thousands, and perhaps tens of thousands of years

  • before it became something firmly fixed in the imagination

  • that each individual had something of transcendent value about them,

  • and I tell you, we dispense with that idea at our serious peril.

  • And so, if you're going to take that idea seriously,

  • which you do, because you act it out, otherwise you wouldn't be law abiding citizens,

  • you act that idea out, it's firmly shared by everyone who acts in a civilized manner.

  • The question is: Why in the world do you believe it?

  • Assuming you believe what you act out, which I think is a really good way of fundamentally defining belief.

  • So that's the sort of ideas, that there's this God of tradition and structure,

  • that's God the Father, who uses the Son,

  • which is more of an active force, and primarily something that's verbal,

  • which I also think is extremely interesting,

  • because it's associated not with thought precisely, but with speech,

  • and I think the reason for that is that there's something to speech that's more than mere thought,

  • and I think part of the reason for that is that speech is a public utterance,

  • and, at least in principle,

  • speech is something that's shaped by the existence of everyone else, at least across time,

  • because when you speak, your speech is put forward in the world as a causal element

  • and it's also subject to criticism and cooperation and mutual shaping,

  • and so there's an idea here, too,

  • that the cognitive processes that bring habitable reality out of uninhabitable chaos

  • have this collective and public element,

  • which is part of the reason, by the way,

  • that I'm an advocate of free speech, let's say, above all,

  • because I don't think, although it is the case,

  • for example in the Canadian Bill of Rights,

  • that every single right has equal value.

  • That's the theory.

  • It's an idiotic theory because it's absolutely impossible

  • for a large set of rights to have absolutely equal standards and stats.

  • That cannot happen, there's no way that that can ever work,

  • but that is the legal judgement.

  • But I think it's a huge mistake, because free speech has this divine quality, let's say,

  • that you can't escape from, because it's the thing that manufactures everything else,

  • you know, and I do think that the dream

  • that you can think of as encapsulated in the stories of Genesis

  • is the dream by which human beings dreamed up the idea that we would now consider consciousness,

  • because it took us a long time to figure out the word consciousness,

  • it's not like it's bloody obvious,

  • who knows how many thousands of years -

  • or who knows what struggles we had to undertake to abstract out something like consciousness,

  • and how we had to represent that dramatically, say, or symbolically,

  • or in a dream-like fashion, before we could actually

  • formulate the term and localize that to some degree in people.

  • It's very sophisticated.

  • So John makes the case that,

  • well, there's an emanation of God or an element of God,

  • the transcendent consciousness, something like that,

  • that acts directly and in a sort of living way with the underlying potential of the world,

  • and I think that that's phenomenologically accurate

  • and I do think that that's the way we regard our lives,

  • because, you know, when you think about it, too,

  • we tend to think that what you encounter when you're looking at the world is the material world,

  • but that isn't how you act.

  • You do act as if you're in a place of potential

  • and also in a place of potential that you can actually transform,

  • which is also something extraordinarily strange, you know,

  • because we do treat each other as if we're capable of

  • bringing new forms into the world in some permanent manner.

  • And we treat each other as if we have free choice and free will,

  • and perhaps we don't,

  • but it's certainly the case that societies that are predicated on the idea that we don't

  • don't do very well.

  • And societies that are predicated on the idea that we do seem to do a lot better.

  • Plus, people tend to get very annoyed at you if you treat them

  • like they're automatons that lack free will,

  • that's something people find very,

  • I would say, constraining, slave-like, about that even.

  • The demand that you don't have actual autonomy-

  • And even worse that you're not responsible for your choices

  • It's an insult to someone to suggest to them

  • that they're not responsible for their choices.

  • To do that to someone from a legal perspective you have to argue something like diminished capacity

  • Well you're mentally ill or you don't have the intellectual capacity

  • Or you were addled by some substance or you had a brain injury or something

  • and that's why you're not responsible for your actions

  • Otherwise, part of the respect that you give to another human being

  • is the assumption that they're responsible for their actions

  • And some of that can be if you do something bad then you're responsible for it

  • But part of that too is if you do something good, you're also responsible for that

  • And that also seems necessary because-

  • I mean, it's gotta be more annoying than anything else you could imagine to strive virtuously

  • let's say to produce something of extreme value and then to be treated as if that was a mere deterministic outcome

  • and that your actual choices had nothing to do with that

  • People find that sort of thing extraordinarily punishing

  • I know that there are debates about all these things

  • and debates about free will and debates about the nature of consciousness but

  • I'm trying to take a clear look at how people act and how they want to be treated

  • and then trace it back to these old ideas to see if there's some metaphysical connection

  • So here's how the book opens

  • In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth

  • The earth was without form and void,

  • and darkness was over the face of the deep.

  • And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters

  • Now this is a hard - what would you call - narrative section to get a handle on

  • Because in order to understand it properly you have to actually look behind it.

  • So there are a lot of pieces of old stories in the Old Testament that flesh out the meaning of these lines

  • And I can give you a quick overview of it.

  • One of the ideas that lurks underneath these lines

  • Although you can't tell because it's in English

  • You have to look at the original languages

  • And of course I don't speak the original languages so I've had to use secondary sources

  • Too bad for me

  • But the "without form and void and the deep" idea

  • You see, that's associated with this notion of endless deep potential

  • So for example, the words that are used to represent "without form and void"

  • Are something like - well one is -

  • I'm going to get this partly wrong

  • Tohu wa-bohu

  • and another one is Taom

  • and it's important to know this because those words are associated with an earlier Mesopotamian word which is

  • Tiamat. And Tiamat was a dragon-like creature who represented the salt water

  • And Tiamat had a husband named Apsu

  • And Tiamat and Apsu were sort of locked together in kind of a sexual embrace

  • and it was that locking together of Tiamat and Apsu

  • and I would say that's potential and order- something like that

  • or chaos and order. They were locked together.

  • And it was that union of chaos and order that give rise, in the old Mesopotamian myth which is the Enuma Elish, to Being

  • to the old gods first and then eventually as creation progressed to human beings themselves

  • and so there's the idea lurking underneath these initial lines

  • that God is akin to that which confronts the unknown and carves it into pieces and makes the world out of its pieces

  • and the thing that it confronts is something like a predatory reptile - something like a dragon or it's something like a serpent

  • and I think part of the reason for that, and this is a very deep and ancient idea, is that -

  • [exhale] this is where it gets so complicated to do the translation -

  • partly that is how human beings created our world. Like we went out beyond the confines of our safe spaces, let's say,

  • our safe spaces defined by the tree or defined by the fire

  • and we actively voyaged outward to the places that we were afraid of and didn't understand

  • and conquered and encountered things out there

  • like literally animals, like mammoths and snakes and predators of all sorts

  • and as a consequence of that active brave engagement with the domain of what we did not understand -

  • the terrifying domain of what we did not understand -

  • that the world in fact was generated

  • and that idea lurks deeply inside the opening lines of Genesis,

  • and it's a profound idea in my estimation.

  • I think also that the way our brains are structured - and this is something that I'm going to try to develop more today - is that

  • the ancient circuits that our ancestors used to deal with the space beyond which they had already explored

  • so that would be home territory

  • so that's that unknown territory

  • that's characterized by promise

  • because there are new things out there

  • but also by intense danger

  • because we're prey animals

  • especially millions of years ago

  • when we were very young

  • we had to go out there and encounter

  • things that were terribly dangerous

  • and there was a kind of paternal courage

  • that went along with that

  • and it was the spirit of that paternal courage

  • that enabled the conquering of the unknown

  • and there is no difference between

  • the conquering of the unknown and the

  • creation of habitable order.

  • The thing is, that as our cognitive faculties have developed,

  • to the point where we're capable of very high levels of abstraction,

  • the underlying biological architecture has remained the same.

  • So I don't think it's too much to say at all

  • that the circuits that engage you - for example

  • when you're having an argument about something fundamental

  • with someone that you love.

  • So you're trying to structure the world around you,

  • jointly, to create a habitable space

  • that you both can exist within.

  • You're using the same circuits - the abstracted version - that our archaic ancestors

  • would have used when they went out into the unknown itself

  • to encounter beasts and predators and geographical unknowns.

  • It's the same circuit, it's just that we do it abstractly now instead of concretely.

  • Of course it has to be the same circuit because evolution is a very conservative force.

  • What else would it be?

  • I think this it why it is so easy for us to demonize those people who are our enemies

  • because

  • our enemies confront us with what we don't want to see.

  • And because of that our first response is to use snake detection circuitry on them.

  • and that accounts for our capacity - almost immediate capacity - to demonize.

  • And there's a reason for that,

  • it's not a trivial thing.

  • First of all it's a very fast response,

  • and second of all it's a response that has worked for a very very very long time.

  • You know, one of the variants of the hero -

  • and I would consider a variant of the hero

  • like a fragment of the picture of God -

  • is the heroic warrior who slays the enemy.

  • Of course, that's not precisely a politically correct representation of the hero in modern times.

  • Well, and no wonder!

  • But it's still something that you go watch in movies all the time and admire, right?

  • It's like, one of the most -

  • How many plots are there?

  • Romance and adventure, that's about it.

  • And most of the adventure genre is,

  • well, there's some enemy that's lurking in some form -

  • it could be human, it could be alien -

  • and someone rises up to go and confront it and maintain order, you know, it's like...

  • There's no getting away from that story.

  • And if you don't have that in your own life, then you play a video game where that's happening,

  • or you watch a movie where that's happening, or you read a book where that's happening

  • and it captures you.

  • Even if you're atheistic and your only religion is Star Wars, you know.

  • [laughter]

  • Well, really! Really! Right? Really, it still captures your imagination.

  • You act like someone who's possessed by religious fervor when you line up for three days

  • to be the first one into the theater, you know.

  • And all the while claiming that you're atheistic to the core, it's like...

  • [laughter]

  • Okay, so, this

  • "without form and void" is this chaotic -

  • and it's a hard thing to get a grip on, what exactly this means

  • But I can give you another kind of example of

  • how you would experience the formless chaos of potential in your own lives,

  • and even how the order that you currently inhabit can dissolve into that.

  • You know, in Dante's Inferno,

  • when he outlined the levels of Hell -

  • so Dante was trying to get to the bottom of what constituted evil in this representation,

  • so it's a work of psychology, and he's thinking,

  • there are various ways to behave reprehensibly,

  • but there's a hierarchy of reprehensible behavior, and there's something absolutely

  • the worst at the bottom.

  • And Dante believed that it was betrayal.

  • And I think that's right because, you know,

  • one of the things that enables

  • long-term peaceful cooperation between people is trust.

  • And I would also say that trust is the fundamental natural resource.

  • There's been some very good books written on the economic utility of trust, for example.

  • Societies where the default economic presupposition between trading partners is trust

  • tend to be rich, even if they don't have any natural resources.

  • You can see that, for example, with what happened with eBay, which I think was a kind of miracle

  • because what should've happened with eBay was that

  • you sent me junk, and I sent you a check that bounced, right?

  • And that was the end of eBay.

  • [laughter]

  • Right, right, exactly.

  • But that isn't what happened!

  • The default transaction on eBay was so honest that the brokers -

  • you could hire brokers to begin with, I can't remember what they were called exactly, but

  • you could pay someone a fee so that they would guarantee the transaction.

  • So, you know, you wouldn't send me junk and I'd actually send you a payment

  • and we'd pay 10% for someone to guarantee that.

  • The default trade was so honest that those things vanished right away.

  • And so that meant all this frozen capital, roughly speaking, which were all the junk that people

  • had lying around that someone else might want,

  • instantly became money. And the only reason that worked was because people trusted one another.

  • And so, trust is an unbelievably powerful economic force

  • maybe the most powerful economic force.

  • Anyways,

  • if you have a relationship with someone, it's predicated on trust, and part of the reason for that is that

  • trust is what enables us to look at each other without running away screaming.

  • And what I mean by that is that if I trust you,

  • then I don't have to take into account how complicated you are, because you're horribly complicated.

  • I think chimpanzee full of snakes, that's what a human being is.

  • [laughter]

  • And as long as you'll do what you say you'll do,

  • then I can take you at your word,

  • and your word simplifies you, and

  • you can take me at my word, and my word simplifies you, and then we can act like we understand each other

  • even though we don't.

  • But then, if that trust is betrayed,

  • then all the snakes come forth very very rapidly.

  • All of you, I suspect, have been betrayed one way or another

  • and so, what happens if you're in a relationship with someone

  • and you trust them,

  • then you make certain assumptions about the past, and you make certain assumptions about the present,

  • and you make certain assumptions about the future.

  • And everything's stable, so you're standing on solid ground.

  • And the chaos, it's like you're standing on thin ice.

  • The chaos is hidden. The shark beneath the waves isn't there. You're safe, you're in the lifeboat.

  • But then if the person betrays you - like if you're in an intimate relationship and the person has an affair

  • and you find out about it, then you think,

  • one moment you're one place, right? You're where everything is secure

  • because you've predicated your perception of the world on the axiom of trust,

  • and the next second - really, the next second -

  • you're in a completely different place.

  • And not only is that place different right now,

  • the place you were years ago is different,

  • and the place you're going to be in the future years hence is different.

  • And so, all of that certainty

  • that strange certainty that you inhabit can collapse into incredible complexity.

  • And you say, well if someone betrays you, you think,

  • "Okay, who were you?

  • "Because you weren't who I thought you were.

  • "And I thought I knew you. But I didn't know you at all.

  • "And I never knew you, and so all the things we did together,

  • "those weren't the things that I thought were happening. Something else was happening!

  • "And you're someone else.

  • "That means I'm someone else because I thought I knew what was going on, and clearly I don't.

  • "I'm some sort of blind sucker, or

  • "the victim of a psychopath or someone who's so naive that they can barely live.

  • "And I don't understand anything about human beings,

  • "and I don't understand anything about myself,

  • "and I have no idea where I am now.

  • "I thought I was at home, but I'm not. I'm in a house

  • "and it's full of strangers.

  • I don't know what I'm going to do tomorrow, or next week, or next year."

  • All of that certainty, that habitable certainty,

  • collapses right back into the potential from which it emerged.

  • And that's a terrifying thing.

  • That's a journey to the underworld from a mythological perspective.

  • And that is really something worth knowing.

  • Because journeys to the underworld are extraordinarily common in mythological stories.

  • Like the hobbit going out to find Smaug, the dragon

  • and get the gold is the journey into the underworld.

  • Journeys to the underworld happen all the time, and

  • modern people don't understand what the underworld is except that we've all been there.

  • And we go there all the time.

  • And we go there every time the solidity and the stability

  • of the world that we've erected, at least partly

  • through our speech, is shattered because

  • some sort of snake appears - that's another way of thinking about it.

  • It's a really good way of thinking about it because

  • no matter how carefully you construct the little habitable area that's around you, there's always something

  • you didn't take into account, and there's always something that can pop up its head

  • and do you in and make you aware of your mortality

  • and age you, for that matter, or even kill you.

  • That's the permanent situation of life,

  • which is part of the reason why I think the story of

  • Adam and Eve, for example, is archetypal.

  • It's because we do inhabit walled gardens, right?

  • Because a walled garden is half structure, society, and

  • half nature, that's what a walled garden is.

  • A walled garden is a place of

  • of paradise and warmth and love

  • and sustenance, but it's also the place where

  • something can pop up at any moment and knock you

  • out of it, and I think part of the reason that that story

  • exists at the beginning of this collection of books is

  • because it explains the eternal situation of human beings. We're always in that situation.

  • We're in a walled garden.

  • Or we bloody well hope we are.

  • But there's always a snake. And it's even worse because

  • if there is a snake, we're exactly the sort of creatures

  • who are going to do nothing but go interact

  • with that snake the second that we can manage it.

  • It's definitely the case that if you want a human being

  • to muck around with something, the best thing to do is

  • to tell them not ever to do it, have anything to do with it.

  • Which is, of course, something you know if you have teenagers.

  • [laughter]

  • Or even children.

  • Or if you know anything about yourself, or your partner.

  • So, these stories are trying to

  • express what you might describe as an unchanging,

  • transcendent reality.

  • It's something like what's common across

  • across all human experience across all time.

  • And that's what Jung essentially meant by an archetype.

  • And you could say, well,

  • We tend to think that what we see

  • with our senses is real.

  • Of course that's true, but what we see with our senses

  • is what's real that works at the time frame

  • that we exist in, right?

  • We see things that we can touch and pick up,

  • we see tools, essentially, that are useful for

  • our moment-to-moment activities.

  • We don't see the structures of eternity,

  • especially not the abstract structures of eternity.

  • We have to imagine those with our imagination.

  • That's partly what these stories are doing

  • they're saying, well,

  • There's forms of stability

  • that transcend our capacity to observe.

  • Which is hardly surprising

  • we know that if we're scientists, right?

  • 'Cause we're always abstracting out things

  • that we can't immediately observe.

  • But there are metaphysical or moral realities

  • or phenomenological realities

  • that have the same nature:

  • you can't see them in your life

  • by observing them with your senses.

  • But you can imagine them with your imagination.

  • Sometimes the things you imagine with your imagination

  • are more real than the things that you see!

  • Numbers are like that, for example.

  • There's endless examples of that.

  • I would say, well...

  • This is also a good way of thinking about fiction

  • because a good work of fiction is more real

  • than the stories from which it was derived.

  • Otherwise it has no staying power, right?

  • It's distilled reality.

  • Even though, in some sense, "it never happened."

  • It's like, it depends on what you mean by "happened."

  • Y'know? It's—It's—

  • It's a pattern that repeats in many, many places,

  • with variation.

  • You extract out the central pattern.

  • The pattern, purely, never existed in any specific form,

  • But the fact that you've pulled a pattern

  • out from all those exemplars means that

  • you've extracted something real.

  • And I think the reason that the

  • story of Adam and Evewhich we'll talk about

  • in quite a bit of detail today

  • has been immune to being forgotten

  • is because it says things about

  • the nature of the human condition that are always true.

  • I can give you another brief example.

  • Like, people have a lot of guilt.

  • Y'know, there's a line of social psychology that

  • claims that most people feel that they're better

  • than other people.

  • I just don't buy thatthat isn't what I've seen in my life.

  • Maybe I'm a bit biased 'cause I'm a clinical psychologist,

  • and I see more people who are

  • overtly suffering, maybe, than people do in general.

  • Although, I'm not so sure about that, y'know, because

  • you don't have to scratch very far beneath the surface

  • of most people's lives

  • before you find something truly tragic.

  • And I don't mean the sort of tragedy that

  • you whine about, I mean

  • y'know, your mother has Alzheimer's, or

  • your best friend committed suicide, or

  • you have a close relative with cancer,

  • you have a sick child, or

  • there's something wrong with you

  • because almost everyone has at least one

  • really terrible thing wrong with them.

  • And if you don't, hey, you will, so, y'know.

  • [laughter]

  • So, y'know, that

  • tragic sense of Being is there with people all the time.

  • And it's also the case that,

  • in my experience

  • I rarely meet someone who says, "Hey, y'know,

  • "I'm doing everything I possibly can, I'm a hell of a guy,

  • and I can't see how I could possibly improve."

  • [laughter]

  • You meet someone like that,

  • you think they're narcissistic, right?

  • And you're right.

  • [laughter]

  • But most people don't feel that way! They feel like

  • they could do a hell of a lot better than they are,

  • and they're quite acutely aware of their faults,

  • and they don't feel that they're what they should be.

  • And you see,

  • what happens in the story of Adam and Eve as well

  • is that when people become self-conscious

  • at least, that's how it looks to me

  • they get thrown out of Paradise,

  • and then they're in history,

  • and history is a place where

  • there's pain in childbirth, and where

  • you're dominated by your mate, and where

  • you have to toil like madlike no other animal

  • because you're aware of the future.

  • You have to work and sacrifice the joys of the present

  • for the futureconstantly!

  • And you know you're going to die.

  • You have all that weight on you.

  • To me, again, that's just

  • how can anything be more true than that?

  • As far as I can tell, that's just how it is for

  • unless you're naive beyond comprehension!

  • There's something about your life

  • that is echoed in that representation.

  • And why it is that p— I mean,

  • we're such strange creatures because

  • we don't seem to really fit into Being, in some sense.

  • That's also what's expressed in the notion of the Fall.

  • The existentialists said people feel like they have

  • a debt that they have to pay off to existence

  • for the crime of their Being.

  • Something like that.

  • Maybe it's because we're acutely aware that we have to

  • offer something of value to the people around us so that

  • they can tolerate us.

  • Y'know, while we're going about our business, but

  • it seems deeper than that. It's that

  • human beings seem to exist in a post-cataclysmic

  • world, and that's exactly also what's represented

  • in Genesis. It's very interesting because

  • in the Adam and Eve story, there's two

  • there's two catastrophes, essentially.

  • There's the catastrophe that occurs when Adam and

  • Eve wake upwhich we'll talk about in detail

  • and become self-conscious and know they're naked.

  • And their eyes are opened, right?

  • That's the terminology that's used, and to have

  • your eyes opened means to have a...

  • an increment in consciousness, essentially.

  • 'Cause eyes are associated with consciousness

  • for human beings 'cause we're intensely visual animals.

  • And so the metaphor for having your eyes opened

  • meansis the same as the metaphor

  • of coming to consciousness, and as soon as Adam

  • and Eve come to consciousness, they

  • realize they're naked.

  • The classic interpretation of that is it has something

  • to do with sexual sin, and I don't believe that.

  • I don't believe that's what it means.

  • Although there are elements about that that're relevant.

  • It's more that to realize that you're naked...

  • It's like—y'know,

  • if you dream that you're naked and on a stage

  • in front of people, that's not a sexual dream, man!

  • Unless you're some kind of strange exhibitionist, right?

  • [laughter]

  • You wanna cover yourself up and get the hell off

  • that stage as fast as possible!

  • And so, to be naked in front of a crowd

  • is to have everyone

  • it's to have the judgement of the social world focused

  • on your self-evident inadequacies.

  • And that makes people self-conscious.

  • That's a real human stateit's associated with

  • neuroticism in the Big Five trait model, but

  • people don't like that at all. They don't like having their

  • fragility and vulnerability exposed to the group.

  • It's one of the two major fears of people.

  • 'Cause one is social humiliation.

  • And the other is something like mortality and death.

  • [chuckle]

  • Your typical agoraphobic, for example, gets to have both

  • those fears at the same time because she

  • it's usually a she

  • tends to believe she's going to have a very

  • spectacular and exhibitionistic heart attack in a public

  • place, and make a terrible fool of herself

  • while she's dying.

  • [laughter]

  • Requested P offer his look at human's appointment to further create.

  • Here's something interesting too; we will develop this a lot.

  • You see, when Adam and Eve eat the fruit,

  • when the snake gives them the fruit,

  • the thing that happens is their eyes are opened.

  • Okay, to me that means that they've woken up.

  • there's been an increment in their consciousness.

  • The next thing that happens is they recognize that they're naked.

  • To recognize that you're naked is to recognize that you're vulnerable.

  • Human beings are strange creatures [JBP bends over]

  • most animals are like this, and they're protected. But not us.

  • [stands tall] Our most vulnerable parts are displayed for harm and for everyone to observe.

  • Right, so we have that sort of bipedal self-consciousness built into us.

  • But what is really interesting, is that when Adam and Eve realize that they're naked

  • it's the same moment that they know the difference between good and evil.

  • and that -- God -- that, I just ground away on that for years

  • [just-out-of-vision stammers]

  • what's the relationship between consciousness, knowledge of nakedness and the knowledge of good and evil?

  • I think I figured it out.

  • I think it was that --

  • you see -- when you know that you're vulnerable....

  • And they also developed knowledge of death, right? So

  • So it's deep knowledge of vulnerability. They get embarrassed about that. They cover themselves up, right?

  • So that's culture.

  • So it's a very profound shock for them to recognize that they're naked.

  • It even makes Adam hide from God.

  • Then they develop the knowledge of good and evil.

  • Well, I think because, you see, human beings have this peculiar capacity that no other creature has,

  • which is I know how I can be hurt,

  • because I am aware of my own limitations. Painfully aware.

  • And now because I know how I can be hurt, I know how you can be hurt.

  • And I can take advantage of that.

  • And that's how evil enters the world. That's how it looks like to me.

  • I've got this expansion of knowledge. It says in Genesis that that gives people

  • another attribute of divinity: knowing the difference between good and evil.

  • It has nothing to do with animals

  • and it has nothing to do with Adam and Eve prior to having their eyes open.

  • But the cosmos switches when that self-consciousness manifests itself.

  • That's when the possibility of evil enters the world. It's something like that.

  • That's also echoed by the intimate relationship between the snake in the Garden of Eden

  • and Satan. [Stammers]

  • That's a very strange association.

  • It's like this snake also becomes the adversary of being.

  • and I think I'll jump very quickly into that, but

  • But I think that's because [first] there's the snake that bites you in the jungle;

  • and then there's the snake that lives in your enemy;

  • And then there's the snake that lives in your family if you banish the enemy to the netherlands.

  • Then there's the snake that lives in you if you remove yourself from your family.

  • And that snake that's in you -- right --

  • that's a psychological phenomena, that's

  • equivalent to transcendent evil itself --

  • the thing that inhabits every single person.

  • And that's why there's that association between the snake and Satan.

  • and that's where I think people have this... it's associated with our knowledge of vulnerability that gives us this constant capacity for evil.

  • Can you Imagine if you're a medieval torturer?

  • -- you know people don't generally imagine that sort of thing --

  • but people were medieval torturers and they were very good at what they did.

  • The only way you can be a torturer is to know what would hurt you.

  • Right, and so you exploit the knowledge of your own vulnerability to bring pain into the world.

  • I don't think you can lay that precisely at God's feet.

  • Now people have been arguing about that for a very long time.

  • The question for me that arose from that. Fine, like tragedy, you can lay that at God's feet.

  • Well if we didn't bring additional evil into the world, could we tolerate the tragedy of being without becoming corrupt?

  • Well I think generally the answer to that is:Yes, as I've seen people react

  • quite heroically to the arbitrary burdens of their life.

  • but malevolence: man, that lays them low.

  • It seems to be nothing but a destructive force.

  • I do believe this as well -- you see it in the Cain and Abel story -- that

  • the root for malevolence is the desire for revenge against God for creation itself.

  • I've read terrible things written by terrible people, trying to get to the bottom of things.

  • I've mentioned the Columbine killers for example.

  • It's clear. All you have to do is read what they wrote.

  • What they were doing was taking revenge against God. They knew that.

  • It wasn't unconscious. They'd been dwelling on this for months, plotting their revenge.

  • And it was against for being itself, for the crime of being.

Okay, well I thought this time that I would actually

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