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  • I am angry, confused, hurt, disappointed with church and government leaders

  • because they do not accept me as natural, equal, worthy ...

  • They don't accept you as natural. Is that true?

  • Let's do The Work.

  • They don't accept you as natural, is that true?

  • Yes.

  • They don't accept you as natural. Can you absolutely know that it's true that they don't accept you as natural?

  • Based upon statements. - Is that a yes or a no?

  • We've been here before.

  • Contemplate.

  • You know, a theory hits your head and you swear to it and then you vote it.

  • I'm asking you to consider, they don't consider you as natural.

  • Can you absolutely know that it's true

  • that they don't consider you as natural?

  • No.

  • And for some of you, the answer might be yes.

  • But your answer is the one that counts.

  • And no matter what it is, you just keep moving.

  • There are only four questions. Two to go.

  • How do YOU react when you believe this thought?

  • I feel hopeless. I become angry.

  • I become confused. I resist.

  • Imagine your life without the thought 'They don't accept you as natural'.

  • Light. Carefree.

  • Natural?

  • Natural.

  • You're good.

  • Well, I've got a little experience going for me here.

  • Ok, so, they don't consider you to be natural. Turn it around.

  • I don't accept me as natural.

  • So, I want to know what about you is not natural in your opinion.

  • This really is coming out of denial if there's any in there at all.

  • When I think about it, about what causes stress, the feelings of the challenges and struggles of the gay man seems not natural

  • in the sense of this fight to be accepted. So that seems - Unnatural.

  • Yeah. Why are you defending who you are is the question.

  • It's unnatural, I hear from you. So, why are you defending it?

  • Are you a gay man? - Yes.

  • Thank you. And what is not okay about that?

  • What is unnatural about that in your opinion?

  • Your opinion.

  • The stress that comes with um ... - Believing that other people should accept you?

  • Yeah.

  • I could shift this to places, it would just cut to the chase.

  • But if you trust that Judge-Your-Neighbor Worksheet, it will hit every single thing.

  • It will just, I call it checkmate.

  • The Work is checkmate and that Judge-Your-Neighbor Worksheet is checkmate.

  • If you've filled it in.

  • So, give me an example of 'I don't accept me as natural'.

  • If you're in the habit of defending gay men, that is a difficult question for you and a very important one.

  • Where is that you consider, as a gay man, you consider you not to be natural?

  • There are a lot of gay men that are homophobic.

  • In fact, a lot.

  • Oh, honey.

  • It's just all these visions from since I'm little of how that's just confirmed ...

  • ... of this resistance and fighting.

  • What I feel to be natural.

  • Okay.

  • I mean it, god it's so right-to-the-core.

  • Oh god the countless amounts of pressure and stress.

  • From my father to growing up in Montana where you ...

  • ... gotta be captain of the football team, you gotta be good at sports ...

  • ... you gotta date the cheerleaders and you gotta go hunt and kill big animals ...

  • And uh, and I work so hard to put on this, just this masculine image ...

  • and girls in the church that repeatedly said, "It's unnatural" and how I've lived that for so long ...

  • ... and, as much as I say I'm natural, how badly I judge the gay culture so much and I separate myself ...

  • I look at it as so unnatural that I don't even involve myself in it.

  • I don't date because I'm good, I say ...

  • Oh, God ... so, that's a start.

  • Homophobic.

  • That's, oh, bizarre.

  • All that defense was just to convince yourself.

  • Now, where is it that you consider you unnatural as a gay man?

  • I don't feel like I fit into the stereotype and I fight, I resist so much the stereotype.

  • And I feel like if I get into the stereotype that I've become what everyone ...

  • not everyone, those examples in my life have told me not to be.

  • So, another example of where you consider yourself, as a gay man, unnatural?

  • Um, so, uh, sometimes I feel less of a man that I get labeled a lot as "girls' night out".

  • 'Girls are getting together, let's go'.

  • What group of people say that to you,

  • Oh, family and friends.

  • So, you be them and I'm going to be youwith a little gay pride.

  • So, you're my parents...

  • Um, you know, me and the boys are going to go out hunting and, um, get together and do manly things...

  • ...and you can go hang out with the girls and go shopping, how's that?

  • Uh, you know, actually, I do prefer that. You're always thinking of me.

  • You're always considering who I am, honoring who I am as a gay man.

  • You give me the option of not having to do those things I really don't care about.

  • Which shows me how much you care and listen to me and see me and understand me.

  • I'm much more comfortable this way and I appreciate your caring.

  • So, I just bought a new house and I need an interior decorator ...

  • and although you're color blind, you're gay, so why don't you come decorate my house?

  • Well, you know, actually ... okay, I'm stepping out of the role, now, okay?

  • Are you good at that?

  • No!

  • Okay, so now I'm back in role.

  • Unless they want black and white and gray. I mean, I'm fantastic at that.

  • Well, that's why I was asking, you know?

  • So, actually, I'm colorblind and that's not my skill.

  • But I can look around.

  • You know, I have a network of people going. I can ...

  • Call the gay hotline.

  • Well, actually, I can just call friends. Some of them are gay, some of them aren't gay.

  • I could just say, "I'm not good at that. I don't have that talent but, if I run into someone that does ...

  • ... I'll have them contact you."

  • Um, you know, I know you're single a lot ...

  • ... but maybe if you were to get in shape and have a six pack, you'd probably have a boyfriend and ...

  • ... after two weeks, you could move in together.

  • Well, thank you. Thank you. And I'll think about it.

  • Isn't that what you do?

  • Yeah, yeah.

  • I love this world. You know, it's a world where there are ... people aren't prejudiced ...

  • ... where people respect who I am and care about me. They offer me jobs even ... whether I have the skill for it or not.

  • Good.

  • It's not that I'm good, I'm just not blind.

  • So far, all this prejudice is coming from you.

  • Yeah, yeah.

  • That's really good to know.

  • Yeah.

  • And I've had glimpses of that and just pushed it away.

  • Well, I love that you have a little experience in how to deal with your own mind here.

  • Can you find another Turnaround?

  • I don't accept them as natural.

  • So, I don't accept non-gay people as natural?

  • And I don't accept gay men as natural.

  • They're having fun and you're home criticizing.

  • It's unnatural.

  • I am so backwards in many ways.

  • So, growing up, your father, I think made you go out for football was your ...

  • Yeah.

  • Okay.

  • He made you go out for football, is that true?

  • Um, at the time, it seemed, if I think about it now, that I ultimately chose, but it was ...

  • Ultimately?

  • I chose.

  • Yes, you did.

  • Yes. - And you did it because you wanted something in return. What was it?

  • Approval. - Yeah, how are you doing?

  • Oh, God, now I should be captain.

  • And make out with that girl.

  • It's natural for a gay man to make out with a girl, for your father's approval.

  • That is ridiculous.

  • Just lists and things that I've done to change to be natural.

  • And that is why it's such a perfect set-up:

  • Sooner or later, it starts to add up that you're not going to get the approval that you're seeking.

  • And, when you get that, you come to see that you've already got it.

  • Can you find an example for that turnaround?

  • I don't accept them as natural.

  • Give me an example of where you don't experience gay men as natural.

  • When they are out there doing the thing you don't approve of.

  • I, it appears to me a lot of the time that some might even get caught up in this image of what 'gay' means and I find myself ...

  • You mean like you've been doing all your life?

  • Yep. And I know it's different, but ...

  • Yeah and, um, it just seems so inauthentic yet I've been inauthentic.

  • You have your way. Everyone has their way. Everyone's doing the best that they can. - Yeah.

  • It's not easy. - Yeah. - But, it's more difficult not to.

  • Absolutely.

  • Can you find another turnaround?

  • I see them as natural.

  • As a gay man, I'm seeing me as natural.

  • So, what is natural about being a gay man?

  • It's the way I am. It's just me.

  • That's one.

  • I get a lot of compliments on my hair.

  • That's two.

  • Let's go with another example.

  • Anyone gay in the audience or has a gay family member or friends?

  • An example of what is natural about being a gay man.

  • My son and his partner are very, very loving to each other.

  • And that seems ...

  • Natural.

  • Wish I had babies from himgrand babies. But, you know, they love each other and they're kind to each other.

  • That's more than a lot of people I know are in their relationships.

  • I have gay friendsreal friendsthey have children. They're theirs. And it could be just not your son's desire.

  • Yeah.

  • But you can campaign.

  • Oh, I'll keep that in mind.

  • You know, grandmother rights.

  • They don't go far. Don't expect anything, but ...

  • I would bet that you didn't wake up one day and choose to be gay any more than I chose to be heterosexual.

  • Yes.

  • Right? I don't choose who I'm attracted to.

  • I'm attracted to who I'm attracted to and, to me, that's as natural as it gets.

  • What have you heard against thatbeing gay?

  • It's against God, it's evil, um you know, it's Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve, um ...

  • Exit only.

  • Just some of those.

  • So, so, one way to lose your homophobia is to put all those things on a list and Work every single one of them.

  • Until you just, you love yourself and everything about you.

  • When that's accomplished, you love us too. No matter how silly we used to look to you, you understand.

  • Yes.

  • I love men and men's bodies, so why wouldn't you?

  • She's got a good point there.

  • Got a really good point there.

  • My family and I grew up in the same type of situation I'm sure that you did ...

  • and my brother and his partner have been together for thirty years.

  • and it's kind of funny because me and my two sisters are all divorced ...

  • and my brother is the only one that has a long-term relationship.

  • So, I ... - How unnatural.

  • So, I think, I think the problem is is you're natural because you're living who you want to be ...

  • ... and it's unnatural for us to expect anything different from you.

  • Mmm.

  • Good stuff.

  • So, what is one of the things you have heard about gay men that has been like a knife in your heart?

  • Um, it's something that I revisit a lot and, um ...

  • ... the relationship has changed a lot with my mother but she made a comment once and, um ...

  • I'm the youngest, so I watched my brothers and sister, you know, go through so many mistakes that they made ...

  • ... according to my parents, and then my mom one time said, she's like ...

  • "After everything that your brothers and sister have put me through, after everything they've done ...

  • ... from I mean everything, um, the biggest disappointment would be if one of my kids were gay.

  • ... and I was all: [demonstrates with facial expression].

  • Well, we're not having that conversation today.

  • And, it's that same thing that I hear from so many different aspects of 'disappointment' ...

  • ... or 'not accepting' or ...

  • So, she said, "That would be the biggest disappointment." ?

  • Mmm hmm.

  • Okay, you hear that?

  • That's what she said. Now, who believed it?

  • I did.

  • So, where was the problem?

  • Me.

  • That's magical.

  • Yeah. - It's like: she said it; that's not a problem.

  • The moment you believed it, it became a problem.

  • So, what your mother said, is that a problem?

  • I just realized how much I make my mom suffer because of that comment. To this, oh, god ...

  • ... like fifteen years.

  • I say that I love my mom, I'm mom's little baby and when she calls me I get irritated, every time she calls me.

  • I just, I bet it's that.

  • I think you're right.

  • In fact she, she says, "You're my baby" and she means it with all her heart

  • and you remember that one, the moment you believed what she said.

  • she didn't believe it: she found out you were gay and you're her baby!

  • But you believed it, and in that moment, hell is created.

  • And separation from your mother, she's doing fine. You're the one with a problem.

  • Yeah.

  • Does she sound disappointed to you?

  • No. She's almost too overbearing with ...

  • She talks about me way too much to too many people and I hear about it.

  • Yeah, she's sure disappointed.

  • Yeah.

  • Okay sweetheart, so, the most painful thing, like the knife in your heart, what's that?

  • ... and it is not a problem.

  • The moment you believed it, it became your property. It really wasn't even hers, it was something she was playing around with.

  • Good to know, isn't it?

  • It's really good to know.