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  • Welcome to Soul Series.

  • (Oprah) Welcome back to my Soul Series,

  • our weekly half hour to be able to delve into

  • you know, all things really spiritual,

  • to challenge the status quo; that's what this show is all about.

  • To connect to higher ground,

  • and thereby elevate the value of our experience here and now.

  • The here and now. You know, that's an expression that's achieved an almost...

  • you know, cult-like status in our lexicon. But,

  • as in any case when phrases are used and overused in a culture,

  • sometimes they tend to lose their influence and their impact,

  • and people just toss about "the here and the now" as a referent in time

  • without actually considering, I think, the magnitude

  • of what those words really represent.

  • Today, right now, I want to share with you

  • somebody who has helped me, along with millions of other people,

  • to really understand just why that phrase,

  • the here and particularly the now, is not only vital,

  • but is really all that there is.

  • My guest today should be called, I guess, the father of the now.

  • Because Eckhart Tolle is widely recognized

  • as one of the most original and inspiring spiritual teachers of our time.

  • I personally think that

  • you are a prophet, Mr. Tolle.

  • And I was first introduced to your teachings back in

  • in the year 2000,

  • when actress Meg Ryan was on my show, and she told me about this book.

  • We were in a commercial break, I don't even know how the subject came up,

  • but she mentioned The Power of Now,

  • and how it was really having a big impact on her life.

  • And so I went right out and got the book right away,

  • and I put it in my magazine as one of -- on the OWN list,

  • and I think I even list it as a favorite thing for Christmas

  • for all of our viewers.

  • The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment

  • would have to be one of the most transformative books in my life.

  • It's always by my bedside,

  • no matter where I am I carry it with me,

  • I was just saying before -- I was introducing you, Eckhart, that I wished

  • I had my original, original, original copy,

  • because I bought so many copies since the first copy,

  • but my original, original copy -- I had so many

  • yellow markings in it for highlighting every sentence,

  • I just thought, "Well, why don't I finish reading the book

  • instead of highlighting everything?"

  • Welcome to our Soul Series.

  • Thank you so much for joining us.

  • -- Thank you.

  • -- Well,

  • there's so much I want to talk to you about.

  • I know we're not gonna get to all of it,

  • so I just want to tell all of our listeners now,

  • those of you who are big supporters,

  • seekers, and fans of his book The Power of Now,

  • that this conversation will be continued next week.

  • So today's discussion is really -- I'm going to try to focus it on

  • the now, and the book The Power of Now.

  • I was so moved in the book when you said

  • you -- in the very beginning of the book, you said

  • 29 years old, having pondered suicide,

  • you were thinkink this:

  • Quote, "I cannot live with myself any longer."

  • "This was the thought that kept repeating itself in my mind."

  • "And then suddenly I became aware of what a peculiar thought that was."

  • "Am I one or two?"

  • "If I cannot live with myself, there must be two of me:"

  • "The 'I' and the 'self' that 'I' cannot live with."

  • " 'Maybe,' I thought, 'only one of them is real.'"

  • I love this because it's really one of the first times I thought,

  • "Yeah, that's right!"

  • When you say, 'I'm going to tell myself something,'

  • who is the 'I,' and who is the 'self?'

  • That's the fundamental question, is it not?

  • -- Yes, that's right. The...

  • most people are not aware that they have a

  • a little man or woman in their head

  • that keeps talking and talking.

  • So there's a voice in the head -- that's internal dialogue

  • that most people are completely identified with.

  • And in my case, and in many peoples' case, the

  • voice in the head is a predominantly unhappy one.

  • So there's an enormous amount of unhappiness

  • that is continuously generated by this unconscious

  • internal dialogue.

  • And in that moment that night,

  • the separation occurred inside me between the voice,

  • which is the incessant

  • stream of thinking, and the

  • sense of self that had become identified with that voice in the head,

  • and a deeper sense of self

  • that I later recognized as essentially

  • consciousness itself,

  • rather than something that consciousness had become through thinking.

  • So that night, the separation occurred,

  • and when I woke up the next morning, I was completely at peace

  • for the first time since my childhood

  • without understanding why. The understanding came much later.

  • So the important point here is that

  • it's essential for people to become aware that their thought processes

  • and the sense of self that is derived from their thinking,

  • which includes, of course, all one's memories,

  • all one's conditioning;

  • one's sense of self is a conceptual one

  • that is derived from the past.

  • So all the stream of thinking really is

  • a form of conditioning of the past.

  • So it's essential for people to recognize

  • that this voice is going on inside them incessantly

  • and it's always a breakthrough when people for the first time realize,

  • here's my thinking,

  • here are all the importune thoughts that I've been having;

  • repetitive thoughts;

  • very often

  • recurring negative thoughts,

  • and they suddenly realize,

  • "And here I am, knowing

  • that these thoughts are going through my head."

  • So the identification is suddenly broken.

  • And that is, for many people, the first real spiritual breakthrough.

  • Spiritual, as I see it, is not believing in this or that,

  • but it's stepping out of identification with a stream of thinking.

  • So you suddenly find there's another dimention

  • deeper than thinking inside you,

  • I'm just going to call that "stillness,"

  • it's an aware presence. Just that.

  • It's nothing to do with past or future,

  • and that, we could call also,

  • it's like waking up.

  • That's why, traditionally in many spiritual traditions,

  • they use the term "awakening"

  • so many people will tell you,

  • "Well, what do you mean, 'awakening?' I'm awake already."

  • But what is meant by 'awakening' is

  • that you wake up out of the stream of thinking.

  • And when you wake up, you become present.

  • A completely different dimension of consciousness is suddenly there.

  • (Oprah) Well, I recall

  • in Stillness Speaks, you talk about

  • the awareness --

  • Stillness Speaks, the book Stillness Speaks, is all about that awareness,

  • and I love the line where you say,

  • "Once you recognize" -- I'm paraphrasing, of course --

  • "that voice, and that you are the observer of that voice,

  • that very awareness is you."

  • (Eckhart) That's right.

  • And not the voice,

  • so you recognize as essentially there's something inside you

  • that has its place, it's the stream of thinking,

  • it's connected with the past,

  • it contains all your memories,

  • it contains all reactive patterns,

  • it contains old emotions and so on; they're all part of that.

  • But essentially, it is not *essentially* who you are.

  • And that's an amazing realization.

  • Now the mind, of course, may then ask,

  • "Well then, tell me who I am."

  • (Oprah) That's the big question. I'm talking to Eckhart Tolle,

  • author of Power of Now.

  • So what is the answer to that question?

  • (Eckhart) Well, the answer to that question is that who you are

  • cannot be defined through thinking

  • or through mental labels or mental definitions,

  • because it is beyond that.

  • It is the very sense of 'beingness' or presence

  • that is there when you become conscious of the present moment.

  • It's intrinsically one with what we call the present moment.

  • You -- I sometimes say this, though some people might find this a little strange,

  • but in essence, you and what we call the present moment

  • at the most -- at the deepest level, are one.

  • (chuckles) Because you are the consciousness

  • out of which everything comes.

  • Every thought comes out of that consciousness that you are.

  • Every thought disappears back into that space of consciousness that you are.

  • So essentially, you are a conscious, aware space.

  • And all your sense perceptions ,

  • all your thinking, all your emotions

  • happen, they come and go, in that aware

  • space. Yeah. -- Space. Yes.

  • -- Well, did it feel like, Eckhart,

  • when this happened to you that moment

  • of realization where you realize

  • the voice was separate from the awareness,

  • that moment that you speak about at the beginning of the book,

  • did it literally blow your mind?

  • -- Yes, it did.

  • But I didn't understand it, I just realized suddenly,

  • the next day I was at peace, and I remained at peace.

  • There was a deep sense of inner peace,

  • although externally, nothing had changed.

  • So I knew something very drastic had happened,

  • but it took me some years to actually understand what had happened.

  • I -- some years after -- three years after this transformation,

  • I was talking to a Zen monk (chuckles)

  • and he was telling me, he said,

  • "Well Zen basically is very simple,

  • it's -- you don't rely on thinking anymore.

  • It means to go beyond thinking."

  • And I suddenly realized,

  • "Oh, this is what has happened to me!"

  • That state that I felt was a state of inner peace,

  • was also a state of

  • far less thinking than I had been doing before.

  • All that unhappy thinking,

  • all that repetitive thinking wasn't happening to me anymore.

  • (Oprah) And so, you have often said in all of your books,

  • you characterize thinking as a terrible affliction,

  • even a disease, and that it's the greatest barrier

  • to the power of now.

  • But isn't to think to be human?

  • I thought that's how we are different from other animals.

  • -- That's right. Thinking can also be

  • a powerful and wonderful tool.

  • It only becomes an affliction

  • if we are totally identified with thinking,

  • and we derive our sense of who we are

  • from the stream of thinking.

  • In that case, you're telling yourself continuously,

  • what I call sometimes, 'the story of me,'

  • and in many peoples' case, it's an unhappy story.

  • So they are continuously dwelling on the past

  • and there's nothing wrong with the past, but if there's

  • complete self-identification with memory,

  • then all your sense of who you are; your sense of identity

  • is then derived from the stream of thinking,

  • and that's a dysfunctional and unhappy state.

  • So when you step out of identification with that,

  • and you realize for the first time,

  • I'm actually the presence behind thinking.

  • Then, you are able to use thinking

  • when it's helpful and needed,

  • and it can be a wonderful thing.

  • But you're no longer, to put it in extreme terms; but it's true,

  • you're no longer, then, possessed

  • by the thinking mind.

  • The thinking mind is then a servant

  • or a helpful tool which you can use,

  • it's useful for many situations in this world,

  • but you can't find *yourself* in there.

  • And also, it is --

  • if you can never beyond the thinking mind,

  • it interferes with relationships.

  • It creates continuous conflict in relationships

  • if there is no sense of space in the relationship.

  • -- Say that again, "if there's no sense of space."

  • -- No sense of space. That spacious aware presence

  • that you can bring to the relationship.

  • For example, when you listen to someone,

  • you listen to your partner or you listen to a friend

  • or just an acquaintance,

  • can you be there as the aware space that is listening

  • or are you, while the other person is speaking,

  • continuously thinking, preparing the next thing you're going to say;

  • are you judging and evaluating what you're hearing,

  • are you just interested in your own purposes,

  • or can you be there as the space for the other person?

  • And I would say that's the greatest gift you can give a person.

  • It is especially important for parents and children,

  • but also very important in intimate relationships.

  • Can you be there as the space, the aware conscious space for the other person?

  • For example, while you listen to the other person,

  • can you listen in that simple state of alertness

  • in which you're not judging what you're listening to?

  • You're then there as a presence rather than as a person.

  • -- Right.

  • -- So they said the deeper level of awareness is there,

  • and that's what I call the space.

  • (Oprah) I was going to say,

  • you offer them that space in which you

  • allow yourself to be connected to whatever it is they're offering.

  • -- That's right. There's no judgement in that space,

  • -- That's right.

  • -- you're not defining the other person,

  • and that's an enormous gift that you can give to another person.

  • You're not imposing mental labels, judgements, definitions

  • on the other person.

  • Funny thing, as you know, so many people love their pets.

  • And there's-- for some-- for many millions of people--

  • (Oprah) So many people, I would be one of those people.

  • (Eckhart) Yes, me too.

  • -- Okay.

  • -- Now, for many people,

  • That's the only area where they realize they can communicate

  • and relate to another being, and that being is not judging them.

  • Because the dog accepts you unconditionally as you are.

  • I don't know if you've heard the saying,

  • "Please God, make me into the person my dog thinks I am."

  • (both laugh)

  • So, the people feel that sense of freedom when they relate to their pets,

  • because they are not being judged. (chuckles)

  • Now, the animal, of course, is at a state prior to thinking,

  • so that's why the animal can be there as the simple, natural presence.

  • But when a human being is there, the human being has moved beyond thinking.

  • And that's the state of awareness.

  • But both these states are free of definitions and judgements.

  • Jesus, of course, also talked a lot about the importance of not judging another person.

  • (Oprah) Well, you know, since The Power of Now,

  • so many people have been introduced to this very idea

  • that you presented to us in this book,

  • and, you know, are

  • stimulated by the idea,

  • and even I have had glimpses of that space.

  • (Eckhart) Oh, I'm sure you have.

  • -- Yeah, glimpses of that space.

  • But how can you live in that space?

  • You seem to live in that space.

  • -- Yes. Well, first of all, it's important to acknowledge and to be grateful

  • for the glimpses of it when they happen. -- Yes.

  • and then you can actually not just wait for the space to happen

  • almost as a kind of grace that comes into your life, -- Right.

  • which sometimes does happen, --Right.

  • But you can also invite that space simply by

  • bringing more presence into your life,

  • which means more present-moment awareness.

  • For example, I recommend that people use little everyday activities

  • that they do everyday unconsciously, and bring a conscious presence.

  • When you wash your hands, when you make a cup of coffee,

  • when you walk across a room, down the stairs,

  • you're in the elevator, waiting for the elevator.

  • These are all opportunities for, instead of indulging in thinking,

  • being there as a still, alert presence.

  • (Oprah) Yes, like a lot of people, you know, take showers in the morning.

  • They're taking a shower, but they might as well already be in the office,

  • 'cause they're thinking about, you know, getting in their car,

  • and "What am I going to do today?" -- That's right.

  • And what's, you know, "what is my to-do list?" -- Yes. Yes.

  • Instead of being present in the shower,

  • feeling the water, the essence of the water, the moment... whatever.

  • -- That's right. So it's bringing little spaces into your everyday life.

  • As many spaces as possible.

  • I say, for example, when you get into your car,

  • shut the door and be there for just half a minute,

  • feel your breathing, perhaps feel the energy inside your body, look around,

  • the sky, the trees.

  • All it takes is half a minute.

  • And the mind might tell you, "I don't have time," -- Yes

  • That's the mind talking to you.

  • But I would suggest that even the busiest person has time

  • for 30 seconds of space

  • when they sit in their car, for example. Or many other locations.

  • -- Well, I will have to tell you that --

  • I think it was -- yes, it was, the year 2000, I first read this book,

  • and many, many times this book has saved me.

  • I mean, the theories in The Power of Now have saved me,

  • and today, as a matter of fact,

  • I had, you know, one of the most hectic days.

  • But I remember waking up this morning thinking

  • "Oh my god, I'm going to be so stressed, I'm going to be so, so stressed."

  • I let that go, I let those thoughts go,

  • and just thought, "I will just, for every moment of the day, be present now."

  • -- Yes. That's a continuous refocusing on what really matters,

  • what matters most in anybody's life,

  • which is always now. The present moment.

  • People don't realize it, that that's really all there ever is.

  • There is no past or future, except as memory or anticipation in your mind.

  • (Oprah) But that's what throws me, though, in the book

  • when you say there's no past.

  • Of course -- there has to be a past. because there are all of our memories,

  • or all these ways we defined ourselves. That's our past! -- Yes.

  • --- Yes. On one level, you can say nobody can argue

  • with the fact that there is such a thing as time,

  • there is such a thing as future, of course.

  • We use time to meet here. We agreed on this particular time.

  • We said that we are going to meet on this day at that time.

  • Otherwise it would've been difficult. We might never have met. --That's right.

  • -- And you are hard to find. -- (laughs)

  • In all the different countries. I'm talking to Eckhart Tolle, the author of Power of Now.

  • But we agreed on this time, and we are here.

  • Because this is now.

  • (Eckhart) That's right. So time, then,

  • is something that we cannot do without,

  • you could even say, time is what dominates

  • this entire life that we experience here, because --

  • (Oprah) This illusionary plane that we're on. (Eckhart) That's right.

  • (Oprah) Right. -- I call it the surface level of reality

  • (Oprah) Got it. -- that's completely dominated by time,

  • which is the past and future in the continuous stream,

  • and people looked at time very often for --

  • expecting that time will eventually fulfill them,

  • time will eventually give them what they need,

  • time will eventually give them happiness,

  • and sometimes, of course, it does, for awhile.

  • But essentially, the true happiness you cannot find

  • by looking into the future, because it is intrinsically

  • one with living deeply in the present moment.

  • So it has been said that two ways of being unhappy,

  • one is not getting what you want, and the other is getting what you want.(chuckles)

  • -- Right. -- Because, if you think

  • this, that, or the other is going to make me happy,

  • even when you get it, and you haven't realized

  • that the present moment is all you ever have,

  • you will again be focusing on the next moment

  • and always expecting -- because it's a mental pattern that is very deep-seated --

  • always focusing -- always expecting something in the next moment.

  • Never being fully in this moment.

  • -- Well, another thing that changed me when I read the Power of Now over seven years ago

  • was your comment about the fact that all of our stresses,

  • every stress that you have, is based upon, for the most part,

  • thinking about what happened in the past or what should be happening in the future.

  • That if you're able to take a deep breath no matter what crisis is going on in your life

  • and look at what is happening now in this moment, right now, I'm OK.

  • -- That's right. Another way of putting it would be to say,

  • when many people identify their whole sense of self with problems,

  • -- Right. -- Problems, they're continuously involved in problems.

  • And so for many people, their whole sense of identity

  • is intimately bound up with the problems they have, or think they have,

  • and often, just as a reality test, I tell people,

  • "Just a moment," just say, "what problem do you actually have at this moment?"

  • Just focus, see what problem you have at this -- not in an hour's time or tomorrow morning,

  • but what problem do you have *now*?

  • And sometimes people will suddenly wake up when they hear that question

  • because they have to realize -- "At this moment,

  • I don't actually have a problem."

  • What you might have is a challenge.

  • If something -- danger arises, a wild animal jumps into this room, (chuckles)

  • that's a challenge, and then, of course, it's not a problem

  • because there's no time to make it into a problem.

  • So for a problem to exist, you need time and you need mind activity,

  • repetitive mind activity.

  • In the present moment, there may be a challenge, that is true,

  • there may even be pain, there may be an emotion,

  • but not what we call "problem."

  • So when people think, "How do I get out of my problems?"

  • I suggest, "Go into the present moment and see

  • what is the problem *now.*"

  • And then you always have to admit, "Well, right now,

  • I don't actually have a problem."

  • And people got that even be-- right in prison,

  • I've had letters from people in prison, some are in for life,

  • they've written to me and said, "I understood your message

  • and I have become free."

  • And they meant free inside.

  • -- Wow. -- Free of problem-making. -- Yes.

  • (Oprah) So yes, similar to Viktor Frankl and Man's Search for Meaning.

  • -- Yes. -- Yes. -- Yes.

  • Free of problem-making.

  • I want to ask you, you know, as I completed the book

  • and have read and reread it many times over the years, portions of it, all of it,

  • listen to the tapes,

  • I often wonder, do you live like this all the time?

  • Are you always in the now?

  • -- Yes. I'm basically in the now, surrendered to what happens.

  • Occasionally, if I see, for example

  • somebody inflicting pain on somebody else or something.

  • an emotion may come, anger may arise very briefly and then pass through.

  • It doesn't link into the brain and create an enormous amount of useless thinking.

  • So emotions can come and go, but I'm basically in that state of surrender to what is.

  • --Wow. -- Because what is, is always already the case,

  • so you can't really argue internally with what is, because if you do, you suffer. (chuckles)

  • -- But what about having a --

  • does it leave you passionless for life, though? Because whatever is, is just gonna be.

  • -- No, no. In fact, you are more passionately alive

  • when you are internally aligned with the present moment.

  • Which means you let go of this inner resistance,

  • which on a mental level is judgement and complaining,

  • and on an emotional level is some kind of negativity.

  • So these two go together. Many people have an enormous amount of complaining

  • going on continuously in their mind. (chuckles)

  • Some people do it out aloud all the time.

  • -- And usually the complaining is about what was, (Eckhart) Yes.

  • or what they wish was. -- Or what should be, but isn't happening,

  • and this shouldn't be happening, and you shouldn't do this,

  • and I don't want to be here and so--(chuckles)

  • They always find something to complain about.

  • And so these are ways of denying the present moment.

  • And that's a very dysfunctional state because you're basically denying life itself.

  • Because outside of now, there is no life.

  • -- Alright, then how do we plan for the future?

  • We're all told that we should plan for the future.

  • We shouldn't just be passive about the future.

  • -- No. You should plan for the future, and you don't need to lose yourself *in* the future.

  • If you plan for the future, you can actually enjoy saying, "Ok,"

  • let's say I'm planning a trip, I'm planning a course of study,

  • and you write down what you have to do, various steps, and you enjoy that.

  • The question is, are you losing yourself in the future

  • or are you simply using time and future on a practical level?

  • Where it's fine, it has its place on the practical level.

  • But if you think that some point that I'm going to reach in the future,

  • now it might be the next vacation, or it might be when I find the ideal partner,

  • or it might be when I get a better job or better place to live, or live in a more pleasant city, or whatever it is,

  • then I will finally be happy.

  • And so, yes, it continues, projection mentally away from the now,

  • that's where you lose yourself in the future.

  • And that's a dysfunction.

  • Using planning is actually fine, there's nothing dysfunctional about that.

  • So- and that's the difference, you could say, between, as I call it, "clock time"

  • which has its place in this world, --Right.

  • and "psychological time", which is the obsession- continuous obsession with past and future.

  • -- When you say "has its place in this world,"

  • do you feel that, you know, even now, in the human body,

  • which is often, for a lot of people, the "pain body" that you call it,

  • do you feel that you're straddling both worlds?

  • -- Yes, you could say that. There's a-- there needs to be a balance between

  • dealing with things in this world, which involves time and thinking,

  • but not being totally trapped on this level of time and thinking.

  • Not being totally trapped in time and totally strapped in the stream of thinking

  • so that there is a deeper dimension inside you that is actually

  • the outside of that stream of time and thinking.

  • And that's the inner stillness.That's the inner peace.

  • And that is a deep, vibrant sense of aliveness.

  • So you're actually very passionate about life in that state.

  • -- Wow. That's what we're looking for here.

  • I just love talking to you.

  • One of my favorite books all-time in the world, the Power of Now.

  • Eckhart Tolle, thank you so much for joining us this week

  • and we'll talk next week about one of my favorite things to discuss: the ego,

  • which you speak so profoundly about in your book A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose.

  • We'll join you again next week. Thank you so much, everybody, for listening.

  • -- Thank you, thank you.

  • ( ♪ ♪ )

  • (Oprah) Welcome to Soul Series.

  • (Oprah) Hi, welcome back to my Soul Series.

  • So excited again, because I get to talk to Eckhart Tolle.

  • Last week we spoke of the Power of Now.

  • He's a pre-imminent spiritual leader

  • I think he's a prophet for our time, for the 21st century,

  • who believes that we are here to enable the divine purpose of the universe to enfold in us.

  • That's in the beginning of his book The Power of Now.

  • And he's the author of that breakout bestseller.

  • If you don't have it, it's one of the books that should be a part of your,

  • you know, personal library forever.

  • I can't even tell you how many copies I've bought for everybody.

  • And if you were to come to my house right now, and you were going to spend the night

  • in either bedroom of my house, it doesn't matter which bedroom you would go to,

  • you'd find a copy of The Power of Now. Sometimes two or three,

  • because when people leave, they like to take it with them.

  • The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment.

  • And he's back to discuss his latest release, A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose.

  • The inspiration for that title came from a Bible prophecy in both the old and new Testament

  • where it speaks of the collapse of the extisting world order

  • and the rising of a new heaven and a new Earth,

  • for those of you who are Bible readers.

  • Well, The Power of Now is one of the most comprehensive and enlightening books,

  • as you've heard me say, Eckhart, I've ever had the privilage to read.

  • Why did you feel the need to write a follow-up?

  • You really didn't have to write another word after The Power of Now.

  • -- Well, that's true. The teaching evolved in the years

  • after The Power of Now came out.

  • I would travel around the world giving talks.

  • And what happened, then, is some new approaches came, new perspectives on the same basic truth.

  • It's not a different truth, it's focusing on the same basic truth,

  • but new perspectives towards it,

  • and also I felt there was still something to be said about

  • that which blocks the arising new consciousness in most human beings.

  • So there's quite a bit in the book A New Earth

  • about that in us which tends to block the awakened consciousness,

  • the consciousness that wants to arise now.

  • And one way of putting what that is, is to describe it as I do in the book:

  • It's the human ego.

  • (Oprah) Ah, I just-- this is my favorite thing to talk about, the ego!

  • You say the ego is destined to dissolve. How so?

  • -- Well first we need to see clearly what the ego is,

  • because sometimes people use that word and they mean different things.

  • --- Yeah, they just mean you're being arrogant, or...

  • -- That's right. It's a much wider thing, -- Yes.

  • it's not just being selfish or being arrogant or thinking yourself superior.

  • That's a small aspect of ego.

  • Ego is basically a self-identification with the stream of thinking.

  • So that... collectively,

  • I would say the beginning of ego is actually described at the beginning of the Old Testament

  • where there is the famous story of the apple which everybody knows,

  • even non-Bible readers.

  • So it is said there that they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

  • And that was when they lost that state that is externalized in the Bible and called "paradise."

  • What does that mean? To me, that means it is the arising of the ability to think

  • and to differentiate between things.

  • "This is good; this is bad." To make statements like that, to make judgements like that,

  • which is to be able to tell good, is basically the ability to think,

  • which is a mythol-- so this is a mythological description

  • of what happened to humanity. And at first,

  • the ability to think was not entirely bad.

  • They lost something; they lost a deeper state of connectedness,

  • but I don't think that deeper state of connectedness with being was lost immediately,

  • as it's described in the Bible.

  • I believe it took a long, long time of increased thinking,

  • until people reached a point where they derived their entire sense of who they are

  • from the stream of thinking.

  • So, what that looks like in a person's life is...

  • there is an almost, one could say, a mind-made entity

  • which is made up entirely of memories and past conditioning and mental concepts,

  • and this entity, which really is all made up of thinking,

  • people derive their sense of who they are from this mind-made entity.

  • So it's a mind image of who I am.

  • People have split themselves in two. They think there's "me" and there's "myself."

  • Me and my story. The ego is the story of "me" -- Yeah.

  • that people identify with.

  • (Oprah) You say in The New Earth, "It's no--

  • "Ego is no more than this: Identification with form,

  • which primarily means thought forms."

  • -- Yes. That's right. That's what the ego is.

  • -- And you say, "If evil has any reality; and it has a relative, not an absolute reality,

  • this is also its definition of evil: Complete identification with form. --Yes.

  • Physical forms, thought forms, emotional forms.

  • -- That's right. -- And that this results in a total unawareness

  • of my connectedness with the whole, my intrinsic oneness with every other,

  • as well as with the source.

  • And this forgetfulness is original sin, suffering, or delusion."

  • And that's, you know, when I hear that, I thought, "Yes, you're right."

  • For every evil act we've ever heard described,

  • or when we think of people as, you know, doing sinful things,

  • it is because of a complete and utter disconnection, a lack of understanding

  • that I *am* that person that I am attempting to violate.

  • I *am* that which I am jealous of. -- Yes.

  • I *am* that. -- Yes. Yes.

  • -- It means you cannot sense the aliveness anymore that is in the other person.

  • So you have desensitized yourself to the aliveness.

  • Now, you can only do that if you've already done this to yourself.

  • Because by living through mental definitions of who you are,

  • you desensitize yourself to the deeper aliveness of who you truly are beyond thinking.

  • So you become-- -- Okay.

  • what arises, then, is a conceptual identity; "I'm this, that, or the other,"

  • and then once you are trapped in your own conceptual identity,

  • which is based on thinking and image-making by the mind on your past, -- Right.

  • then you do the same to others.

  • You-- and this is the beginning of that, is always when you pronounce judgements on another person,

  • and then you believe that judgement to be the truth.

  • Calling people-- attaching labels to people.

  • That's the beginning of desensitizing yourself to who that human being truly is.

  • -- I'm having a conversation here with Eckhart Tolle

  • who is author of The Power of Now, of course,

  • and A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose.

  • So, if you are not your story, and most people, I do believe,

  • think that they are. We live in a world where people believe "I am my story."

  • "I, you know, was born in this family and this is where I was raised,

  • and these are the things that happend to me, and this is what I did."

  • If you are not your story, then who are you?

  • -- That's a very good question. Because you cannot deny, of course,

  • that these things exist, your memories of the past, -- Right?

  • things that you suffered, perhaps even things-- suffering that you might have inflicted on others.

  • -- And even not all suffering. My family connections, the people I love. -- Yes. Yes.

  • -- You have a so-called "past," you have relationships,

  • all that is fine. It is not problematic,

  • unless you become totally lost in that dimension alone.

  • So there's-- if you have no access to a deeper sense of aliveness or beingness beyond the stream of thinking,

  • because really, all that is based on memory.

  • All your past... what- how do you experience your past?

  • You experience your past as memories.

  • And what are memories? Memories are thoughts in your head.

  • And there's nothing wrong with that.

  • But if you're totally identified with all these thoughts in your head,

  • then you are completely trapped in your past history.

  • There's no sense of anything beyond that in your life. --Right.

  • So the important thing is, "Am I more than my personal history?"

  • -- Well you speak, in A New Earth, you speak about

  • how advertisers are counting on us to believe in the labels.

  • And that we identify with, particularly in our society,

  • exclusive labels. And the more exclusive the label, the more we identify with it.

  • -- Yes, that's right. Because the ego wants to be special one way or another.

  • Every ego wants to be special.

  • And if the ego cannot be special by being superior to others,

  • the ego would also be quite happy with being specially miserable. (chuckles)

  • So you may have seen business people are saying,

  • one person says to the other, "I have a headache."

  • The other person says, "*You* have a headache?

  • "I've had a headache for weeks!" (both laugh)

  • So people actually compete who is more miserable, you or me? (chuckles)

  • That's another-- it's just the ego, it does that.

  • It's just as big as the ego that says "I'm superior to you,"

  • because the ego always wants to be special.

  • So if you recognize in yourself that unconscious need to be special,

  • then you're already half free, because when you recognize all the patterns of the ego,

  • and specialness is one pattern of the ego,

  • another pattern of the ego, it wants to be right all the time.

  • Another pattern of the ego is it actually needs -- it loves --

  • conflict with others.

  • And that's an amazing thing. Of course it's unconscious,

  • because the ego defines...

  • it defines itself though a boundary that it draws between,

  • "This is me, and that is the other."

  • And that's an important word because you need-- the ego needs to emphasize

  • the otherness of the other person.

  • And that happens on a personal level when people are suspicious of other people's motives and so on.

  • And there's a need for enemies, which is deeply built into the ego.

  • The ego needs enemies because it defines itself

  • through emphasizing the otherness of others

  • And nations do it, religions do it.

  • The believer, if you identify with one particular religion,

  • and for many people, religion is only a mind structure, not in its deepest sense.

  • But for many people, a religion is an ideology that they identify with,

  • and then they need the non-believer, the other,

  • because by having the other, they feel their own sense of identity more strongly.

  • -- Right. And they need the other in order to feel their own sense of identity.

  • -- Yes. -- More strongly. Yeah.

  • (Oprah) I thought it was-- you did such a great job of (Eckhart) They need enemies.

  • explaining this, because you say it first starts with a baby,

  • when the baby first reaches for the toy and realizes-

  • and the toy is taken away or not given to them and they say "No, that's mine!"

  • "That's mine!" -- That's right.

  • (Eckhart) That's the beginning of identification with *things*.

  • -- Identification with things. And that what happens is,

  • is that we all just grow up and we just get bigger toys, different toys.

  • -- That's right. Yes.

  • So it's always- ego's always identification with one form or another.

  • It could be a physical form as a possession; my house, my car, and so on.

  • So when you identified, your sense of who you are is in that thing.

  • So if that thing is then criticized, for example, by somebody else,

  • you would become extremely defensive or aggressive

  • because you're feeling your very sense of self is being threatened.

  • And then there are other forms of identification, for example,

  • my opinions. Mind forms. -- Right.

  • People have very strong identification with their mental positions.

  • -- And "I am right."

  • -- "I am right," and that implies, of course, somebody else has to be wrong. --Right.

  • So that I can continue to be right.

  • -- But tell me this: Then, I'm thinking this, that, you know,

  • that as long as we are in this dense human form,

  • we must need the ego, otherwise why would we have it?

  • Otherwise we would have evolved out of it.

  • -- We are, now, evolving out of it.

  • The ego has been there for thousands of years, and, as you say,

  • the fact that it was there for thousands-- it has been there for thousands of years means

  • it has its place in the evolution of humanity. -- Right.

  • So I'm not saying it should never have happened.

  • The ego had its place. It was the ability to think, delevop more and more,

  • so that gradually, we became so identified with thinking,

  • that we lost a deeper connectedness with life,

  • which is described as the paradise in the beginning of the Old Testament.

  • That deeper connectedness with life.

  • We are now, I believe, at an evolutionary transition

  • where many human beings, far more human beings than ever before

  • are able to grow out of -- go beyond ego into a new state of consciousness.

  • -- Yes, you say that we face a very stark and daunting choice,

  • and that is to either evolve or die.

  • -- Yes. This is the point where

  • the evolution of consciousness, the awakening of humanity,

  • is no longer a luxury.

  • Because now, we've reached a point, if we don't grow out of the dysfunction of the ego,

  • because the ego is now being amplified,

  • the effects of this dysfunction are being amplified by technology. --Right.

  • So what we are doing to ourselves, to fellow human beings, and to the planet

  • is becoming more and more destructive and devastating.

  • -- Yes. I had a conversation, actually, with Ellie (Viso?) yesterday,

  • who was saying that "this will be known as the sick century. Sick century."

  • -- Yes. --Yes.

  • And our ability just to do the most evil and sickest of things to one another. --Yes.

  • -- I mean, look at the 20th century, it was dreadful.

  • The worst ever in terms of human suffering inflicted,

  • on humans, by humans on other humans.

  • -- Yes. But we were saying that it doesn't seem that we learned.

  • We didn't learn-- we didn't learn!

  • It seems to have gotten even worse. And you were right,

  • because of technology, because there are even greater bombs,

  • guns and ammunition that can kill from further distances.

  • -- Yes. Now the question is, sometimes people ask me,

  • "Are things actually getting better or worse?"

  • and my answer is, at the moment, things are both getting better and worse.

  • Which means there are two streams in existence now.

  • One is the old stream; the old consciousness, the unenlightened,

  • the unawakened egoic consciousness, which is actually still continuing.

  • You can see it a lot of the time when you watch the news in the evening. (chuckles)

  • -- Well, that *is* the consciousness.

  • -- That's the old consciousness, -- Old consciousness, yeah.

  • which is still just as mad as before, if not more mad.

  • -- Well the fact that we just repeat all the bad things that are happening in the world.

  • (Eckhart) That's right. That's one stream.

  • The other stream is us sitting here now and talking.

  • Because that represents, we are part of--

  • I am not saying we are special, but the fact that we are addressing this

  • and the fact that many, many people are listening to this,

  • and it is meaningful to them, means that there is another stream here

  • which is the stream of humanity awakening.

  • And both are present at this time on the planet.

  • -- And as we choose to evolve,

  • you and I sitting here and everyone else who's listening to us

  • and this conversation hits a nerve, or has a moment, I call them "A-ha" moments,

  • or they just find the conversation interesting, and will cause them to look at life differently today.

  • As we do that, are we actually creating a new Earth?

  • -- We are - first of all, what happens is

  • a new state of consciousness arises.

  • It's not so much that we now need to get busy and create a new Earth,

  • because that would be premature.

  • Many times humans have tried to create a new society or a utopia,

  • and they all failed miserably. (chuckles)

  • So, look at communism. It started with a good idea; everybody's equal,

  • and see what it did. Millions of people are killed

  • in the name of communism.

  • So first of all, the important thing is that we are open

  • to the transformation of consciousness that is happening now.

  • Out of that transformed consciousness, which in essence simply means

  • we are no longer completely identified with thinking.

  • We realize that inside ourselves, there is a dimension

  • in which I am conscious, I am present, I'm awake, I'm alert,

  • but I'm simply an aware space.

  • That's presence. I call it presence.

  • You can have other words for it; awareness, unconditioned consciousness,

  • -- Stillness. -- stillness.

  • That arises, now, in many human beings.

  • And so, as that arises and gradually replaces identification with thinking,

  • and replaces relying on thinking exclusively to run your life,

  • there's actually, in that stillness; in that awareness,

  • there is a higher -- far greater intelligence at work.

  • (Oprah) I love how you say, "Let us allow nature to teach us stillness."

  • If you want to understand stillness, you know, stand beside a tree or watch a tree.

  • -- Yes, that's a great help. Just watching a tree, a plant,

  • and be there, just watch it. Be there as the aware presence

  • that perceives the flower, the tree, the plant, the animal.

  • Nature is always very helpful for people who want to connect with the stillness.

  • Man-made things very often generate more thinking because they are made through thinking.

  • So go to nature, and then eventually it's important, of course,

  • that you also are able to sustain the state of stillness

  • even in the midst of a city.

  • I actually enjoy, I'm in New York at the moment,

  • I enjoy walking along the busy, busy streets

  • with infernal noise and people rushing about,

  • and feeling actually in the background a deep sense of stillness.

  • -- Really.

  • -- And actually, I can even enjoy all that movement.

  • And it's wonderful to be able to be there as the stillness

  • and not completely get drawn into some reaction.

  • -- It's like being in the world, but not of it.

  • -- That's exactly what it is.

  • -- Being in the world but not of it. -- Yes.

  • -- So tell us how we can get to be more like you?

  • How can we not allow ourselves to be dominated by the ego?

  • I know it's a lifelong process, but just for those who are listening now,

  • who are going to read A New Earth and read The Power of Now,

  • and come away thinking "Okay, I'm inspired by that, stimulated by it,

  • "what can I begin to do today to not to have myself dominated by my ego?"

  • -- Yes. Now, the ego cannot survive in the stillness.

  • That's important to realize.

  • So that means invite stillness into your life.

  • That does not mean that stillness is something that you need to get from the outside

  • or somehow create for yourself.

  • It's realizing that everybody, underneath the stream of thinking,

  • already has the stillness.

  • -- Right. So you don't have to go to Hawaii and sit on a mountaintop.

  • -- No, no. And you don't have to do anything to create it,

  • because essentially, it's already there.

  • And if you look very deeply into yourself

  • and see, where does my sense of "I-ness,"

  • when people say "I," they have the sense of "I am,"

  • essentially, the deeper "I," where does its sense of "I-ness" come from?

  • And then if you look very closely, you'll find

  • it's actually intrinsically bound up with this- the dimension of stillness.

  • So that's why I say in my book Stillness Speaks,

  • you are never more essentially yourself than when you are still.

  • So you invite stillness into your life.

  • You can do it by taking a few conscious breaths

  • many times during the day. Just observe your breath flowing in and out.

  • Another way of bringing stillness or finding the stillness that's already there

  • is feeling the aliveness of your body from within.

  • I call it the "inner-body."

  • And that immediately takes your attention away from the stream of thinking,

  • as a lot of which is repetivive and useless,

  • and bring it into the body and feel,

  • "Is there life in my hands?" And then you feel it.

  • Or yes, very subtle, but it's there. Is there life in my feet? My legs? My arms?

  • And then you feel that your entire inner body is pervaded by a sense of aliveness.

  • And then that can serve as an anchor

  • for remaining present when your attention, or part of your attention,

  • remains in the inner body.

  • Even at this very moment for people who are listening to us,

  • they can practice it, and they can see that

  • even while they're conscious of the words that they hear,

  • they're completely following what we're saying,

  • but it does not need to take up 100% of their attention.

  • They can have some of their attention, even as they sit there or stand there and listen,

  • in the inner energy field of the body and feel

  • there is an aliveness in every cell of the body.

  • And that's a wonderful anchor for stillness and for presence.

  • It doesn't mean you turn completely away from the external world.

  • It actually brings balance into your life between being still

  • and being able to deal with things out here.

  • -- It's finding the space in between.

  • -- That's right.

  • -- It's finding the-- it's like when you're reading the book,

  • I remember reading the book The Power of Now for the first time,

  • and you were saying, It is the space in between--

  • it's the awareness of what's on the page,

  • and the space in between that awareness.

  • -- Yes. And you may also find, talking about the space in between,

  • that you may sometimes become aware

  • when a thought has come to an end in your head,

  • that between two thoughts, there is a short, silent space.

  • And when you acknowledge that,

  • which means you suddenly become conscious that for a moment there's no thinking,

  • then it becomes a little longer.

  • And so you have a longer gap of stillness.

  • -- Yeah.

  • -- And then--

  • -- But if you become aware for so long, you start thinking about it, and then you lose it.

  • -- Then you lose it, the moment you say, "Oh look, I'm not thinking,"

  • then you're thinking again, of course. (chuckles)

  • -- Right, right. Right, right.

  • Is there anyone on Earth at this time

  • who you think is free of the domination of the ego?

  • First of all, are *you* free of the domination of the ego?

  • -- I'm not identified with my thinking,

  • which means I'm free of domination of the ego.

  • And there are many, many people right now

  • who are going through this process. They may not yet be 100% free,

  • but they are going through the process in which they become

  • gradually disidentified from the stream of compulsive thinking.

  • I'm getting letters, emails, everyday from all over the world of people who are

  • telling me how their lives have changed, sometimes just by reading the book,

  • and how they become free of identification with their mind.

  • They're not yet totally free, which means sometimes they fall back into ego,

  • sometimes they fall back into obsessive thinking,

  • compulsive thinking, addictive thinking,

  • because for many people, thinking is basically an addiction.

  • And then suddenly they wake up again.

  • So it's a process that many, many people are now undergoing.

  • I cannot tell you exactly how many, but my intuition is that,

  • in the Western world, about 10% of the adult population

  • are at the beginning stages or a bit further, some further advanced, of this process.

  • -- Well I love also how you say in the book, we're talking about, you know,

  • the whole tone of the book is about

  • awakening your life's purpose.

  • A New Earth is awakening your life's purpose.

  • And you say that there are a lot of people who realize that

  • how spiritual you are has nothing to do with what you believe,

  • but everything to do with your state of consciousness.

  • -- Yes. And that's, again, it's the stillness that's the spiritual dimension.

  • It's not any thought. Thought in itself is not spiritual. -- Right.

  • Thought can be sometimes helpful because it can be a pointer, for example when we say--

  • -- And beliefs are not spiritual. That's what I learned from you.

  • -- Beliefs? No, because beliefs are thoughts, no. -- Beliefs are not spiritual. Yeah.

  • They- some beliefs can be helpful, but only as pointers.

  • I mean, even if we say, "Find the stillness that's already inside you,"

  • that's still a thought, but the thought is pointing beyond itself.

  • -- Well I love what you say that, at the end of the book,

  • that "the foundation for a new Earth is a new Heaven,

  • the awakened consciousness. Because what did Jesus tell his disciples?

  • That Heaven is right here in the midst of you."

  • -- Yes. That's a wonderful thing Jesus said.

  • Heaven does not come with signs to be observed.

  • You can't say "Ah, there it is!" or "Look, here it is!"

  • Becasue it is essentially already within you, in the midst of you.

  • -- The stillness. -- The stillness.

  • -- Alright. Can you believe another-- we're out of time again?

  • Next, those of you who've been so intrigued,

  • so empowered by words that you've heard and read over the years,

  • and not just from listening to us,

  • we'll have an opportunity to ask questions of Eckhart Tolle

  • here on our Soul Series. Thank you again.

  • Our listeners get to talk to you, that's going to be great.

  • -- Thank you.

  • -- Thank you.

  • ( ♪ ♪ )

  • (Oprah) Welcome to Soul Series.

  • (Oprah) Glad you can join me again on my Soul Series.

  • This week, I've been hogging Eckhart Tolle, author of The Power of Now, to myself,

  • and he's kindly been indulging my many questions.

  • I could really spend a day and a night and a weekend,

  • boy would you be great for a slumber party!

  • -- (chuckles)

  • -- But since this is talk radio,

  • and you're listening to me on Oprah & Friends XM 156,

  • I thought it would be *really* great to open up the lines

  • and have him share his wisdom and indulge in your questions.

  • I placed a brief paragraph on my website, Oprah.com,

  • soliciting people who'd read The Power of Now

  • and who had questions of their own for Eckhart.

  • And I knew we'd get a great response, but I was *blown* away

  • by the volume and the intensity of those responses

  • that so many of you sent in.

  • You know, Eckhart, I-- well, you *do* know this,

  • that you've literally transformed the lives of so many people.

  • -- Yes.

  • What does that feel like to you?

  • -- Well, it's...

  • I don't feel it "I did it," if something happened through me,

  • and that's how the book got written, and that's when I give talks, answer questions,

  • I also feel not so much that I am doing it,

  • but it's a process that happens when you become still.

  • I always begin the answer to every question, or the beginning of every talk I give,

  • is entering the stillness and becoming comfortable with not knowing.

  • And out of that being comfortable with not knowing,

  • comes the knowing.

  • And I don't feel-- I don't identify with that which comes.

  • I just allow that to come.

  • -- Wow.

  • Well that's cal-- yep, you said to us last week

  • you weren't dominated by the ego, so you don't feel either it's great or not great,

  • or "isn't this a great thing?" and "isn't this wonderful?"

  • "So many people are reading my book." -- No.

  • You don't?

  • -- No. I remember my old ego, of course, would have loved it. (laughs)

  • But it really doesn't-- I don't have that sense now

  • of even having achieved anything as such, it's just of being open for it to happen.

  • Being an open channel for consciousness to evolve.

  • -- Gee, I love that.

  • You know, I can't say that I am not dominated by my ego,

  • but I do feel that sometimes when people will say to me,

  • "I've watched your show, your show--" I just was coming across the street here to radio,

  • and there were three women standing on the corner who said

  • "Your show changed my life," and you know,

  • I was wanting to feel something about it, but I just sort of thought, well,

  • "Okay."

  • -- Yes, because I have a feeling with you also,

  • that is happening, that many things that you do and say

  • are actually come from a deeper place than the ego.

  • -- That's right, I'm just-- that's what I'm supposed to do.

  • -- Yes.

  • -- That's how I feel about it. -- Yes.

  • -- Well this is exciting. Wendy Graham is on the phone. Hello?

  • (Wendy) Hello! How are you, Oprah?

  • (Oprah) Hi Wendy!

  • (Wendy) Hi Eckhart, how are you?

  • (Eckhart) Fine, thank you, thank you.

  • (Wendy) Thank you so much for your work and sharing your life with the world.

  • I am so grateful.

  • -- Thank you.

  • (Wendy) And the question I have for you this evening is:

  • How do you embody what you talk about?

  • You being free of the domination of ego.

  • Can you please share your experience of living in the here and now?

  • -- Well, thank you Wendy, thank you.

  • The... basically, life becomes very, very simple.

  • So, I don't inhabit a world of problems because

  • my primary interest and the primary focus of my conscious attention

  • is always in the present moment.

  • It doesn't mean that I'm not aware there is a so-called future,

  • It may be where I have to go to this or that place,

  • I have to be there in an hour or two hours, or tomorrow I'm going there.

  • On the periphery of consciousness,

  • there's always the knowledge of what needs to be done on that level.

  • But the primary focus is always on the present moment.

  • And so life becomes basically very simple,

  • and it could also be described as a state of

  • surrender to life, which is always the now.

  • So my relationship with the now is a very friendly one (chuckles).

  • And I sometimes actually suggest to people that they can also,

  • if they inhabit a life full of problems,

  • they can actually also change their relationship to the present moment.

  • So that's a very important question to ask yourself at any time,

  • "What is my relationship with this moment?"

  • And then you need to be alert and see,

  • "Am I making this moment into an enemy?"

  • "Am I treating it as if it were an enemy?"

  • Or, "Am I treating this moment as if it were an obstacle that I need to overcome?"

  • For many people, the present moment is always some kind of obstacle

  • because they think they always need to get to some other moment desperately,

  • but it's always *this* moment!

  • Or, "Am I reducing this moment to a means to an end;

  • just a stepping stone to get to the next moment?"

  • These are all ways of denying the present moment.

  • A means to an end, an obstacle or even an enemy.

  • So bring... become aware,

  • and many times during the day, and see,

  • "How am I relating to the present moment?"

  • But when you do that, what you're really asking is,

  • "What is my relationship with life?"

  • Because the present moment is essentially your life.

  • It's nowhere else. Never, ever.

  • Your life-- you can only encounter your life in the present moment. (chuckles)

  • Nowhere else.

  • So it's a vital question to ask yourself what your relationship is with life.

  • Because if your relationship with life is one of hostility,

  • which is when you make the present moment into an obstacle or an enemy,

  • then life always reflects back to you your predominant state of consciousness.

  • So when you are treating the present moment

  • as if it were something undesirable,

  • your life experience will then reflect back to you that state of consciousness.

  • Which means you experience life as hostile.

  • One bad thing after another; one problem after another.

  • (Oprah) But what if you really do have problems?

  • (Eckhart) You have to always start...

  • enter the present moment with your attention,

  • so that you find that space of now,

  • in which actually problems cannot survive.

  • -- In the now. -- In the now.

  • And out of that, because then that moment, you contact a deeper intelligence

  • than the conditioned thinking mind.

  • That is the place out of which intuition comes,

  • out of which creative action comes,

  • it's the place out of which knowing comes.

  • Wisdom comes. Right action comes.

  • So you find-- first of all, go deeper into now,

  • so that make sure that you are

  • one, internally, with the present moment, so that you're not in a state of negativity

  • to do with the present moment.

  • Because that is a dysfunctional state.

  • Now, you could, of course,

  • take action on the basis of negativity; for example, you might feel

  • very unhappy with being- having little money.

  • And then you become angry, even, and then you work extremely hard,

  • and finally after five or ten years you become wealthy,

  • but that- all that action

  • is contaminated by the negativity, if it comes out of anger.

  • And it will create further suffering for yourself and others.

  • So the important thing is, "Am I aligned internally with the present moment?"

  • No matter what it is, you say "This is what is,"

  • and you open yourself to that,

  • and no matter what the situation is, you can always find something

  • to be grateful for.

  • Because gratitude is an essential part of being present.

  • Because when you go deeply into the present,

  • the gratitude arises spontaneously.

  • Even if it's just gratitude for breathing, -- Wow.

  • it's gratitude for drinking a glass of water,

  • it's gratitude for that tree that you see there.

  • Gratitude for perhaps the aliveness that you feel in your body.

  • You can-- gratitude is there when you acknowledge the aliveness of the present moment.

  • The power of life wants to come through you, but it can't,

  • only a little trickle perhaps, if you're lucky, comes through.

  • So the most vital thing for anybody who wants to even change their lives

  • is first of all, come to a...

  • relationship with the present moment that is one of

  • openness, friendliness, acceptance.

  • (Oprah) Even if something is going on in that moment that is making you uncomfortable?

  • -- Yes. Even if it looks externally, it looks--

  • the mind would usually judge it as negative.

  • -- You are very highly enlightened. --(chuckles)

  • 'Cause that's hard to do when you're in the middle of a crisis, I gotta tell ya.

  • -- It's hard to do, but it's something for people to find out whether they can do it.

  • -- Okay.

  • And sometimes the mind will tell you,

  • "Oh, there's no point in even trying!" -- Right.

  • (Oprah) Welcome to Soul Series.

  • (Eckhart) So very often, the thought that says you can't do it,

  • or the thought that says you can't be present now

  • because you've got too much *on your mind,* says the mind, (laughs)

  • so, you don't necessarily have to believe every thought that comes into your head,

  • and you see, "Oh, there's another thought that says I can't be present." --Yes.

  • And then you're present anyway. -- Just keep going back to what we were saying on a previous show,

  • in this moment, right now, I'm alright. -- Yes, yes.

  • Right now. (Eckhart) So the question was how do I live,

  • and that's how I live, but I'm saying the important thing is not so much how *I* live.

  • The important thing is how *you* live,

  • and the essence of this transformation of this way of empowered living is

  • to make the present moment your friend. That's the foundation for all empowerment.

  • -- Thank you, Wendy. Thank you, Wendy.

  • (Wendy) Thank you, Oprah. Thank you, Eckhart. Thank you so much.

  • (Oprah) Alright. (Eckhart) Thank you.

  • (Oprah) That's Wendy, I know Wendy. Wendy's my daughter.

  • So that's how she got the first phone call. --Ahh.

  • She's my life partner's daughter, so I watched her grow up since she was a child,

  • and we talk about these all the time. -- Yeah.

  • This subject all the time. And when she heard that you were going to be on,

  • she was like, "Oh ple--" I called her and I said,

  • "I will send the tape," and then I said, "You know what?

  • Do you have a question?" And so she's been planning her question

  • probably now for six days. -- (chuckles)

  • It was great. Alright, thanks Wendy.

  • I'm getting on to Anthony. Anthony, hello.

  • (Anthony) Hi, Oprah!

  • -- How are you?

  • (Anthony) I'm good. Hi, Eckhart.

  • -- Hello, Anthony.

  • (Anthony) My question has to do with human relationships.

  • (Eckhart) Yes.

  • (Anthony) As evolving spiritual beings,

  • how do we stay in touch and connected with other people,

  • particularly family members and close friends that are highly unconscious?

  • -- Alright, yes. Thank you.

  • Good question. That's-- many people will be able to relate to that question.

  • When you feel that you are becoming more conscious,

  • you're waking up out of identification with the mind, then,

  • in some cases, you find family members, close friends, relative;

  • they are still totally immersed in identification with ego and with thinking.

  • Your primary thing, of course, primary purpose is not to...

  • expect others to be conscious.

  • So first of all, you need to drop your expectation that others should be conscious

  • or should behave consciously.

  • -- And also there's a little bit of-- I remember when I first started many years ago,

  • becoming more aware, there's a little cockyness that comes

  • which is obviously your ego, I know that now,

  • where you're kind of like, "I know this and you don't." --Yes.

  • So you have to put that in its place also.

  • -- That's right. --Yes.

  • -- Because at many stages of one's awakening,

  • the ego can come back in, --Right.

  • and say-- and claim some kind of specialness.

  • -- Yes, because I know and you don't.

  • -- Yes. --Yes.

  • Because the moment you say "I know and you don't,"

  • that you have identified yourself with a mental position,

  • which is "I know," and that's the ego. (laughs)

  • -- Yes.

  • So first of all is, you accept other people--

  • You accept where they are at in their evolutionary development.

  • So first comes the acceptance of others,

  • and then you may find as you continue to practice presence,

  • as you continue to grow in awareness,

  • you may find that certain people around you are also beginning to change.

  • Some will, some won't.

  • If there's the slightest readiness in a person close to you,

  • then something is happening inside you will transmit itself, so to speak,

  • and also trigger another person's awakening.

  • If there is an opening in the other person for that.

  • So what people usually find as they awaken spiritually

  • is that some people around them awaken with them,

  • and then you're on that journey together.

  • And they also find that other people; friends,

  • drift out of their lives gradually.

  • Those who are not ready to awaken.

  • -- Because don't you attract like frequency?

  • -- That's right.

  • So- and also you attract very often, as you say, new people into your life

  • that correspond to this new frequency that's arising within you.

  • Now, one other point here is that there may be certain family members,

  • people who will remain in your life,

  • and it's quite possible that they may not awaken.

  • And your spiritual practice is to surrender to the fact

  • that they are who they are at this moment.

  • -- Wow.

  • --This is, not expect them to be different.

  • The moment you drop your expectation of, let's say, your parents,

  • "they should be more conscious," or what other kinds of expectations that people have is,

  • "my parents should understand me,"

  • but they don't

  • Why should they? So you drop the "should," which is a thought,

  • and you accept your parents the way they are.

  • And the next time you visit them, maybe your father says the same thing to you, he says,

  • "You should have listened to me twenty years ago,

  • you would be better off now,"

  • or whatever the old story is that you've heard so many times,

  • and instead of reacting in the same old way,

  • you can simply allow him to say that,

  • and just be there as an open presence for what-- for those words, for what he's saying.

  • -- I got it, I just had an epiphany.

  • You surrender your attachment to your expectation

  • of what any outcome should be.

  • -- Exactly. Yes.

  • -- I got that. Did you get it, Anthony?

  • (Anthony) I did. I very much did. Thank you.

  • -- Wow, that's great. You just, you know--

  • and you've said this, Eckhart, about how you move through life

  • surrendering to the now. You surrender to what is. --Yes.

  • -- Yes, and--

  • -- And then that's what you were trying to explain to him,

  • you do the same thing with all other situations

  • and obstacles with people or whatever your expectation should be,

  • you surrender to that.

  • -- That's right.

  • So because very often when we talk about surrendering to the now

  • or accepting the now as it is, very often it means

  • the-- a person that is there in front of you in the now.

  • -- Right. Right.

  • So you accept whatever this person says or does,

  • there will be a reflection of their evolutionary stage,

  • and you accept it as it is. -- Right.

  • The amazing thing is,

  • when you completely accept a human being as they are right now,

  • without demanding that they should be different or they should be more conscious;

  • if you completely accept them, very often, change happens,

  • which otherwise would never have happened. -- Wow.

  • If you had resisted or if you had demanded or expected this or that,

  • there's an enourmous power behind that acceptance.

  • Because the moment you accept another human being completely,

  • a deeper consciousness comes into play,

  • because that's another way of contacting the space or the stillness inside you.

  • -- I got it, I had another epiphany.

  • 'Cause I was just going to say, when you accept them,

  • it changes the frequency, it changes the energy, it changes the space.

  • -- Exactly. The whole frequency changes. -- I got it! I got it!

  • That's it! Yes. -- I got it!

  • -- Okay, Lisa, how are you?

  • (Lisa) Hi, I'm good, how are you?

  • -- Good. Your question for Eckhart Tolle?

  • (Lisa) Yes, hi, Eckhart.

  • -- Hello, Lisa.

  • (Lisa) I seem to be a little bit backwards in terms of

  • really understanding The Power of Now.

  • I am an artist, so I-- I'm very familiar with being in the moment,

  • and I feel like I embrace that and live it fully as my calling.

  • And as you two mentioned earlier, I have a sense of being...

  • in this world but not of this world,

  • so when I get a compliment on a painting, it doesn't actaully feel like...

  • I've done the painting.

  • -- Yes.

  • (Lisa) It's a compliment for...

  • -- Yes.

  • (Lisa)...the big picture. Whoever. The powers that be.

  • And what I aspire to is having more of that kind of experience

  • in my daily life. In the mundane tasks which seem to take up a lot of time.

  • -- Yes.

  • (Lisa) And so I'm wondering, what does life look like

  • when you're not-- when you're fully engaged in your

  • cleaning the cat box or you're doing the bills, or you're...

  • -- Yes.

  • (Lisa) grocery shopping?

  • -- Okay, yeah.

  • So, you're able to be present when you do your artwork?

  • (Lisa) Yeah, and also when I'm driving, oddly enough.

  • -- Yes.

  • And now, what happens when you do-- go shopping,

  • or do other tasks at home?

  • You lose the presence?

  • (Lisa) Frustrated and bored. -- Ah, yes.

  • Bored, yeah. -- Yes. Yes.

  • -- Ok. Good. -- Ok.

  • Let's see, um-

  • you have to become very alert to see-

  • to look at your inner state at that time.

  • So- and when you say, "I become frustrated or bored,"

  • you have to become alert and see what that actually means,

  • what happens inside you when you become frustrated or bored,

  • and you may find that a whole train of thinking arises

  • that is either negative about what you're doing,

  • or about some problem that you may have.

  • (Oprah) Welcome to Soul Series.

  • What is boredom? Boredom is the thinking mind

  • is looking for some kind of stimulus, and it's not finding enough,

  • because the cleaning job, the cleaning that you're doing

  • is not enough for the thinking mind. So it gets very bored and restless.

  • It says, "I want something more interesting to feed on." (laughs)

  • So basically, it's-- the mind begins to be active inside you,

  • and then the opportunity arises of being the awareness

  • that observes what your mind is doing at this moment.

  • So your mind is complaining perhaps about what you're doing,

  • or doesn't like it and has certain judgements about it.

  • And then you may also observe the emotions that you have

  • that come with those judgements.

  • When the mind says, "I don't want to be doing this, I would rather be doing something else,"

  • what emotion do you have when the mind says that?

  • Because to a large extent, the emotions you experience

  • are a reflection of your thought processes.

  • (chuckles) So you observe the two levels;

  • thinking, and the emotions as the reflection of thinking in the body.

  • And then you ask yourself, "Ok, there's the--"

  • you become aware of the thoughts, and you become aware of the emotions.

  • The restlessness, the anxiety.

  • And then you ask yourself, "Who am I at this moment?"

  • And you will realize you are not the thinking,

  • you are not the emotions; you are the awareness behind them

  • from where you can see- observe the thinking and the emotions.

  • And the moment you realize that you are the awareness,

  • you're actually in a different state of consciousness.

  • (Oprah) And you're not bored anymore.

  • -- You're not bored.

  • You're suddenly present again.

  • So you are present as the witness or the observer

  • of your mind and of your emotions.

  • So the important question is, at this moment,

  • "Who am I?"

  • The thoughts, the emotions, or the knower; the awareness behind?

  • -- The observer. -- The observer.

  • And you realize, you are the awareness. You are the presence.

  • And then you're present.

  • -- So we get bored because we're looking for more stimulation for the ego?

  • -- Yes. -- Right.

  • -- That's right. The mind looks for more food for thought,

  • is not finding enough food for thought.

  • So one very important point here is,

  • you do not need to get rid of certain thoughts.

  • It's enough to be the awareness behind the thoughts. -- Awareness.

  • Then the thoughts, all the disfunctional thoughts lose their power.

  • And the thoughts that remain when you're aware

  • actually come out of awareness,

  • and they tend to be more creative and empowered thoughts

  • that are not negative.

  • (Lisa) Right. (Oprah) Alright.

  • I hope that helped, Lisa.

  • (Lisa) It did. Thank you so much.

  • -- Alright. I'm going to go to Connie, now. Is Connie there?

  • Let's go to Connie. Connie, how are ya?

  • (Connie) Thank you so very much.

  • You've given me many new perspectives today.

  • I'm 49 years old and recently divorced

  • after a 21 year marriage.

  • And for the first time,

  • both of my sons are in college.

  • And before I was a computer programmer,

  • and now I have an opportunity that I love:

  • teaching senior citizens how to communicate using computers.

  • But I'm under tremendous pressure to make more money

  • and to go back to corporate America,

  • because my alimony is on a declining structure.

  • So my question is,

  • will I always... I can get into the now,

  • and I have been practicing this for over five years

  • with yoga and what have you,

  • but will I always, or does one always

  • go into a pain body or a fear body or a mind awareness,

  • and then come back out?

  • Do you think it is ever possible to live peacefully in the now,

  • or is that too much of a lofty goal?

  • -- Thank you.

  • (Oprah) I love that question. Can you explain "pain body" too, as you answer that question, Eckhart?

  • -- Yes. The pain body, as I call it, is

  • an accumulation of past emotion that still lives inside you.

  • A lot of it comes from childhood.

  • Many painful childhood experiences,

  • and children often need to cut yourself-- cut themselves off

  • from emotional pain, because they cannot endure it.

  • And that's normal for a child to suffer through emotional pain.

  • And most children these days suffer pain

  • of one form or another.

  • So pain leaves remnants in the body,

  • and those remnants of emotional pain,

  • I call the "pain body."

  • They are an energy form consisting of old emotion.

  • And one way of looking at it is,

  • just look at it as almost an entity that lives inside you.

  • An emotional entity.

  • It has two stages: one is dormant and one is active.

  • So for certain periods of time, you don't even know that you have a pain body.

  • And then, regularly, at regular intervals, something happens,

  • and your pain body will get triggered.

  • It will come out of its dormant stage

  • and it will move into your thinking mind and start to control your thinking.

  • So a very powerful negative emotion suddenly invades your thinking mind

  • and then controls the internal dialogue, or your thinking.

  • The pain body has then woken up, so to speak,

  • and it does that periodically, because it needs to feed on

  • negative energy,

  • which can be in the form of your thoughts,

  • or it can be in the form of other peoples' reactions.

  • So the pain body will often try to provoke a negative reaction in your partner,

  • so that it can feed on the negative reaction from your partner.

  • So many people in relationships can recognize that in

  • the periodic need for drama in relationships.

  • So if you are able to observe that in yourself,

  • then you don't get completely drawn into the pain body,

  • and then the pain body cannot renew itself thorugh you.

  • So it's vital to be there as the awareness when it happens.

  • And realize, "Ah, there's my pain body," or "there's my partner's pain body."

  • So that you don't confuse it with who you are.

  • So you remain there as the awareness.

  • Now the question is,

  • can we ever be free of the pain body?

  • Can we ever be free of negative reactions;

  • falling back into all that?

  • This question...

  • I would recommend that we simplify the question,

  • and rather than asking, "can we *ever* be free?"

  • which is-- "ever" is a huge amount of future time.

  • "Can I be free at *this* moment?"

  • Is really the only question that you truly need to ask yourself.

  • Because the only place where you can ever be free, or need ever be free,

  • is this moment. Not the rest of your life, just this moment.

  • Because when you look more closely, you'll see that

  • this moment is all there ever is.

  • So I would recommend that you

  • rephrase your question, don't ask about "ever,"

  • or "for the rest of your life,"

  • but be content with simply addressing this moment at any given time.

  • -- And what's the answer? Can you be free right now, Connie?

  • (Connie) I'm closer to it than I have ever been before.

  • -- Yes. Yes.

  • Thank you, thank you.

  • -- Eckhart, this has just been one of the great joys of my career,

  • to be able to sit down and talk to you.

  • I mean, I thought about this time that we've shared together on this radio show.

  • I've thought about this for so many years, like "what would it be like, what would it be like?"

  • And it has been more than I could ever imagine.

  • And so I was wasting my time, I should've just waited for the now,

  • -- (chuckles)

  • -- thinking about what it could be like.

  • Thank you for all of your encouraging inspiration

  • that has allowed myself and so many other people who've read your works,

  • The Power of Now, Stillness Speaks, New Earth;

  • have allowed us all to see our own lives differently

  • and to see the possibility of an awakened consciousness.

  • Thank you so much.

  • -- Thank you, Oprah. Thank you so much. -- Thank you.

  • Thanks for joining us on XM156.

  • ( ♪ ♪ )

  • I hope you enjoyed this edition of our Soul Series.

  • These are some of my favorite conversations.

  • (Narrator) To hear more, sign up for a free 30 day XM radio trial

  • by going to www.xmradio.com/oprah.

Welcome to Soul Series.

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