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  • SARAH OAKES: Good afternoon.

  • My name is Sarah Oakes.

  • I'm the Editor of 'Daily Life'

  • and it's my enormous pleasure to welcome you here today.

  • Some housekeeping before we begin:

  • our special guest speaker

  • will talk for around 40 minutes.

  • At the end of that time, you might like to take the

  • opportunity to move to 1 of the microphones beside the

  • seating and, ah, and take the opportunity to

  • ask a question.

  • Today's speaker is Brooke Magnanti, whose beautiful

  • Italian surname I fear I may have just butchered.

  • She is a truly fascinating woman.

  • As Belle de Jour, the creator of

  • 'Secret Diary of a Call Girl', the blog that became

  • the book, that became the TV series, Brooke gave us a

  • tantalising account of work in the sex industry.

  • Today, as a scientific researcher, she now takes on

  • the private and public myths surrounding sex and why we

  • believe them.

  • Brooke's book 'The Sex Myth'

  • unpicks the hysteria around media reporting, the

  • research, the assumptions, rumours and wives'

  • tales that we have around sex.

  • Sex isn't and easy subject to debate; personal history,

  • politics, fear, years of oppression get in the way.

  • But, Brooke's funny, fearless and fact-based way of

  • writing, finds a way to cut through all of that noise, as

  • you are about to find out.

  • Please give a very warm welcome to Brooke Magnanti.

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: My God, there's a metric

  • fuck-load of you

  • (LAUGHING)

  • It was only a couple of ago, I actually thought to

  • ask someone.

  • I was like:

  • "Sydney Opera House is pretty big isn't it?"

  • "And, you know:"

  • "How many people are going to be there?"

  • "Mm, don't know, hundreds?"

  • "And I thought: "Well, the audience participation of

  • the bit of the talk might not go as well because I can

  • just about see people if I shade my eyes. But, hi

  • (LAUGHING)

  • Oh, sorry, that's not me.

  • Um, obviously I'm Brooke Magnanti and I'm going to be

  • talking about just a couple of the sex myths that I wrote

  • about in my book.

  • Um, first off, I should make clear:

  • this is this is Billy Piper.

  • Um, she is a really lovely lady; a fantastic actress.

  • Last year, I was giving a talk at'Sceptics on the Fringe'

  • ah, at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival and, little did I

  • know there was actually a reviewer in the audience who

  • wasn't familiar with my secret double life as a, ah,

  • child health scientist.

  • (LAUGHING)

  • And so, when I read the review he said:

  • "I went going- I went to this talk expecting Belle de Jour

  • and I got statistics lecture."

  • "So, I just want to make clear, I'm not actually Billy

  • Piper, as you've probably guessed by now."

  • But, ah, what I can claim to be trying to do

  • (LAUGHING)

  • is 'making statistics standards sexy, one standard

  • deviation at a time.'

  • And, I look forward to the next series of

  • 'Secret Diary of a Call Girl' which, ah, for some reason,

  • I've heard nothing about, so far, in which she is revealed

  • to be, ah, an incredible nerd who spends her days hanging

  • around by the computer, incessantly tweeting about

  • little mistakes that she finds in other people's

  • scientific papers.

  • So, what are some common sex myths overall?

  • Things that we tend to hear in the media and tend to just

  • take without any particular evidence for whether or not

  • they're true?

  • I'm just going to go a few through a few of them: ah,

  • 'Women don't want sex they want companionship?'

  • The, the myth that if, ah, women are sexually active,

  • they're only using it to get something from men.

  • The idea that 'All men are potential rapists'

  • and they just have to see a naked woman and then that's

  • it; they go crazy, they go mad and they attack anybody

  • they see.

  • That there are 'Many women who are

  • forcibly trafficked for sex' and I'm sure that one will be

  • coming up on Q & A on Monday.

  • The 'Drug-addicted streetwalkers are more common

  • than call girls?'

  • This is one that I actually get a lot.

  • There's a lot of people who say:

  • "Well, there aren't many people in the sex industry

  • like you."

  • "And, while it's probably true that there aren't too

  • many people in that sex industry who specifically

  • work in child health epidemiology" go figure.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • Um, there are, actually, obviously a lot of people who

  • are in a similar situation to I was, which was, ah, being a

  • migrant student who ran out of money.

  • And, realising that I was on a visa that severely limited,

  • not only the kind of work that I could do, but the

  • number of hours I could work.

  • So, there're actually quite a lot of us. Ah,

  • 'Porn is the biggest entertainment industry'

  • is another myth we get quite a lot of, and that sex

  • addiction is a growing disease.

  • And, I'm going to be talking about 2 these today.

  • Mainly, sex addiction and the idea that women don't want

  • sex, they just want companionship and that as

  • soon as they're married, sex is just off the table.

  • Now I've been married for 3 years now, so you

  • do the maths.

  • Obviously I haven't had sex since 2010.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • This is the wonderful poet Philip Larkin, chewing on his

  • pen, rather fetchingly, ah, famously he never married,

  • but kept about 5 Mistresses, secret from each other.

  • And in one of his poems he says:

  • "Where do these innate assumptions come from?"

  • "And that was the thinking that I went into writing"

  • 'The Sex Myth' with.

  • Not only just that, there are some of these ideas, and, and

  • to what extent are they right or are they wrong, but where

  • do they actually come from?

  • And, I have to say, um, I blame myself.

  • And, I blame myself as someone who is now kind of,

  • by circumstance, ah,a columnist; a member of the media;

  • somebody who has to produce 500 to 900 words 3

  • times a week on topics that I sometimes only know a little

  • bit about but I've got really strong opinions, damn it.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • So, I came up with this thing called

  • 'The Feedback Model' and The Feedback Model sounds

  • really, you know, portentous.

  • Um, it's just 'a' feedback model.

  • It's how some of these things could happen.

  • The way it starts off at the top is that somebody spots a

  • shock statistic of some kind, maybe in a medical journal

  • or, more likely, in the press release for a medical

  • journal, ah, often without any context.

  • Often it'll be somebody who does not specifically have

  • the background in the topic that's being written about

  • from an academic perspective.

  • You can often take a statistic like that and just

  • sort of fit it into a predetermined message.

  • So, if you're a writer and you have an editor who comes

  • to you and says: "We really need something on

  • sex addiction because there's a famous person who's

  • admitted to being a sex addict and we need some great

  • sounding number."

  • "And you go, and you Google it and you find that number

  • and you whack it in there," just as, just as a throwaway

  • almost, which means that little or no critical thought

  • is applied to: who were the people that were

  • actually involved in making this statistic?

  • But, also who are the people that are the statistics

  • themselves?

  • If you hear about some percentage of women, ah, who

  • give up on sex after marriage or, some percentage of men

  • who are sex addicts and, and just not really

  • thinking about:

  • "Well, who actually were the people that they pulled to

  • get these numbers?"

  • "But, very often, you know, where there is smoke

  • there is fire."

  • Ah, they are people who experience huge losses

  • in libido.

  • There are people who experience problems with, ah,

  • restraining their sexual activity within

  • a relationship.

  • And, crucially, there's not a lot of support out there for

  • those people that is coherent, or that is

  • non-profit, or that is not in some way taking advantage of

  • them still further.

  • Now, where you've got a group of people who are concerned

  • and who are getting support, of course they're going to

  • talk about this.

  • And, especially in the age of the Internet, everybody's got

  • a blog, everybody can get together and they can tweet

  • about it, or they can post to Facebook.

  • And so, talking about the problems and why aren't they

  • finding support.

  • Then, someone like me comes along with 500 to 900 words

  • to write 3 times a week and decides to write about this

  • phenomenon, at which point the cycle continues again,

  • because I need a shock statistic to kind of head off

  • my piece.

  • We get so used to seeing these things that they often

  • just kind of enter into the day to day mythology without

  • anyone really knowing where they originated.

  • And that's where it's often really handy to try and break

  • the cycle, this feedback loop, and ask:

  • "Where did the original numbers come from?"

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • You can probably guess I'm going to talk about sex

  • addiction now and the wonderful saying that

  • 'Three men make a tiger.' You know, if somebody runs up

  • to you, if- I, I live in a tiny little village in the

  • north-west of Scotland and if somebody came running up the

  • one street in our village and said:

  • "You wouldn't believe it. Oh my God, there is a tiger

  • in the village."

  • "It'd be like:" "You are clearly on something."

  • "And then a 2nd person runs along and says:

  • "No really, it's true." I saw it.

  • It's there.

  • "You kind of go: "Oh well, well, you know, maybe

  • Can they both be on something?"

  • "By the time a 3rd person is running up, telling you that

  • this thing exists," you absolutely believe it because

  • why would three people, independently, be making

  • it up?

  • So, let's put Tiger Woods in to The Feedback

  • (LAUGHING)

  • Loop.

  • The statistic that we get a lot of is this one

  • that claims: "In 1991, an estimated 3-6%

  • of adults had sex addiction." Sometimes, this is

  • qualified by saying "adults in the US

  • "or sometime it, it's just inserted whatever country

  • you're in.

  • It'll say 'in UK' or 'in Australia'

  • or even 'worldwide.' Well, we know that, you know,

  • there's porn, there's cheaters'

  • dating sites for married people and, of course, people

  • get divorces because people are cheating.

  • So, this is kind of, the lay of the land.

  • So, we kind of figure that maybe these must be related,

  • you know?

  • That, maybe these things are happening because somebody

  • has a sex addiction?

  • Now, obviously, there's some truth to the fact that there

  • are people with intimacy issues in their relationships

  • who are seeking relationships outside or, for whatever

  • reason, have very, ah, I don't know how we'd say it,

  • non-monogamous arrangements?

  • And, and everything on the spectrum in between.

  • There's not a great deal of support for people either who

  • are experiencing intimacy issues that they personally

  • or their partners are having problems with, or who just

  • have some kind of alternative lifestyle that doesn't fit

  • the whole 'man and woman who get

  • married and they settled down in the suburbs and they have

  • their 2.3 children.' I've always wondered what '.3'

  • children looks like. Is it like to here, or, is it

  • just kind of that bit there?

  • So, you know, the pressure builds and somebody's got to

  • write about celebrity cheating, ah, whoever it is

  • this week.

  • You know, it could be Tiger Woods, or it could be David

  • Duchovny, or it could be any of the rest of the people who

  • are rumoured to be sex addicts but I can't really

  • say their names now because we'll get sued.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • And, ah, and then, of course, you've got to head off your,

  • your little piece, quickly Google

  • 'In 1991, an estimated 3-6% of adults had sex addiction.

  • And, we're not really asking the question:

  • "How did somebody come up with this number?"

  • "What was the study in 1991?"

  • It's a zombie statistic.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • It's just out there wandering the land and it wants

  • your brains.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • This is the International Institute for Trauma &

  • Addiction Professionals website which has a big,

  • handy quiz: 'Am I Sex Addict?' button.

  • So, we're going to figure out how many of you are sex

  • addicts now?

  • Some of the questions are a little bit odd.

  • So, if there are certain things you would rather not

  • specifically be seen to be putting your hand up for,

  • just put your hand up at the end if any of these might

  • apply to you.

  • So, first off, we've got:

  • "Are you preoccupied with sexual thoughts? "

  • Or, "Do you ever feel your desire is stronger than you?'

  • "Now, now note this doesn't specify:

  • 'Are you feeling this right now?' Soů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • ů if you've ever been 15ů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • ůand preoccupied with sexual thoughts that you felt were

  • maybe taking up more of your mental energy than your maths

  • homework was, feel free to put your hand up.

  • (LAUGHING)

  • Just assume that my hand's going to stay up throughout

  • this by the way.

  • These kind of sound like a reasonable place to

  • start though. You kind of think:

  • "Well, yeah, that does sort of sound like it fits with

  • our kind of, you know, our public, received knowledge of

  • the definitions of addiction." "Then, it goes on to include

  • some, some pretty exciting other things.

  • So, have we got hands up anyway, by now?

  • No one will admit to having been 15?

  • That's cool.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • "Were you ever sexually abused?" "Now, this is a really

  • problematic question to throw in there."

  • But, I like the next one: "Did your parents have

  • sex problems

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • How is that a diagnosis of addiction?

  • You know, did your mum drink a bit much, because you might

  • be an alcoholic?

  • It doesn't- well, I don't really see they go together.

  • Also, as well, who the hell's gonna ask?

  • "Have you been in an abusive relationship?"

  • "You might be a sex addict if you've been in an

  • abusive relationship? " "Has anyone been hurt because

  • of your sex life?" "Aka, "Have you ever had a

  • sex life

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • If there's anybody here who claims that nobody has ever

  • been hurt by anything they've done in their sex life, I'm

  • just going to say it now:

  • "Y'all are liars

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • "Do you hide sexual activities from others

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • As opposed to just going down to Woollies and justů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • ůon the floor. This one is great.

  • "Have you purchased sexual material online?"

  • "So, pornincluding online dating?"

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • This is the point where I have to fess up.

  • I met my husband on Gumtree in the casual

  • encounters section.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • I'm beginning to think he might be a sex addict

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • And, finally, "Have you been a sex worker?"

  • "Well, that's my hand way up."

  • I find that an interesting question.

  • 'Have you been a sex worker' could indicate whether you're

  • a sex addict. That's like saying Gordon

  • Ramsay might have an eating disorder.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • So, who here's a sex addict?

  • Just get those hands up if any of that applied to you.

  • Yeah, it's Lord Kitchener here to let you know

  • (LAUGHING)

  • all of you. What did we call sex

  • addiction before we called it sex addiction?

  • Because sex addiction, as a term, is something we've only

  • really begun to hear kind of in the last decade or so.

  • Anyone want to yell one out?

  • (VOICE FROM AUDIENCE YELLS: "Promiscuityö)

  • Promiscuity, that's good.

  • (VOICE FROM AUDIENCE YELLS: "Nymphomaniaö)

  • Nymphomania, yeahů

  • (VOICE FROM AUDIENCE YELLS: (Speaker Unclear)

  • Healthy (LAUGHING)

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • I like that. I mean, there's all kinds

  • of things: Poor impulse control;'Male'

  • sex drive. Again, going back to this

  • myth that there is a'Male' sex drive that is wanting sex

  • all the time and there's a 'Female' sex drive that is

  • neverwanting sex, unless they want to get something from

  • people. Compulsive behaviour?

  • Peter Pan syndrome? I thought that was like when

  • 35-year-old men went around wearing shorts and growing

  • their hair long but, who knows?

  • And then: 'Priapism', if men and

  • 'nymphomania', if women. It's this kind of fear of

  • unbounded, uncontrolled sexuality that has been

  • around basically as long as there have been people

  • writing about sex. There's always somebody who's

  • having too much, whether they're doing it for free or,

  • what I like to call, a talented amateurů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • ůor whether they're getting paid for it.

  • This wonderful mock-up of what women's magazines tell

  • us all the time about sex.

  • "Sex: You're doing it WRONG, dammit!"

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • "SEX AGAIN? " "What are you, an alley cat

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • And, don't get me wrong. I LOVE women's magazines.

  • I LOVE them. It's, it's, it's chick crack,

  • you know? I mean, I, I like to consider

  • myself better than this, and bigger than this, and above

  • this, but screw it.

  • If I'm on a 4 hour train ride, I'm not picking up

  • 'The Financial Times' to read on the way.

  • We get such mixed from these things.

  • And, and so much of it, again, comes back to this

  • idea of: "Women, are you having sex the

  • 'right' way? " Are you having the'good'sex?

  • Are you having enough of it? Is your man happy?

  • What can you do to his nipples to make him happier

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • That maybe went a bit far that one?

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • So, again, going back to our little'Feedback Loop', we're

  • going to talk about 'Female Sexual Dysfunction.'

  • Ah, this is something that comes up under loads of

  • different names: 'Female Sexual Dysfunction',

  • 'Lack of Libido' or if you happen to be gay

  • and a woman,

  • 'Lesbian Bed Death;' all of these really quite

  • horrible stereotypes.

  • Oh, there's a statistic.

  • Another 1999 paper claiming that '43% of women had Female

  • Sexual Dysfunction.' So, that goes WAY beyond, I

  • mean, if we're all sex addicts, I'm, I'm going to

  • guess we're going to start putting up our hands up, and

  • the men in here are going to turn out to have Female

  • Sexual Dysfunction.

  • (FAINT LAUGHTER)

  • Naturally, we've got our stereotypeůof women- oops,

  • alright, oh I didn't highlight that one. Soz.

  • Imagine the second one's highlighted:

  • 'Stereotype of women not being into sex.'

  • 'Stereotype played for laughs?'

  • as I am doing right now; it's usually a punch line that you

  • see on sitcoms. You know?

  • Or, a comedic movie with Meryl Streep about how

  • hilarious it is that she and her husband aren't

  • intimate anymore.

  • But, of course, there's the truth, the kernel of truth.

  • Many people do notice that desire does change over time.

  • It doesn't disappear altogether forever for

  • anyone, but it does change.

  • Again, I've been married 3 years, you do the maths.

  • It goes up, it goes down, it comes, it goes; you're out of

  • sync with someone, you're in sync.

  • You feel like you're never gonna get back that wonderful

  • 'let's rip-off the clothes and do it in the

  • stationery closet' part of your relationship

  • again because that, obviously, is desirable in

  • the long term.

  • (FAINT LAUGHTER)

  • Another key thing though is that these issues really tend

  • only to be talked about in media that is specifically

  • aimed at women.

  • Again, going back to the women's magazines: 'You',

  • 'you women' must do something about this.

  • 'You' must go out and buy the lingerie.

  • 'You' must go out and get your stripping pole.

  • 'You' must greet your man at the door with a ball

  • tickler andů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • ůa steak.

  • And, again, it's not, it's not really handled in a way

  • that is in anyway sensitive of the fact that some people

  • are experiencing anxiety about the changes in their

  • sex lives.

  • And, what do you know, here comes someone like me again

  • who's got to write a column for the women's page of

  • 'The Telegraph.'

  • Surprise, surprise; here comes our shock

  • statistic again. So, you're seeing how this

  • works and this is where they are generally kind of arising

  • and they're percolating through.

  • They get repeated to the point that we take it for

  • granted that this is true.

  • And it's reinforced by almost all the other

  • media that we see.

  • Everything from stand-up comedians to romantic films

  • and now, don't even get me started on chic flicks.

  • Again, I love a chic flick. I really do.

  • On the flight over here, it was just back-to-back

  • chick flicks. Okay? If I could have watched

  • 'Silver Linings Playbook' 6 times in a row, I totally

  • would have done. Because, I mean, you know,

  • Bradley Cooperů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • But, the thing is, is that that constant diet, no matter

  • how cynical you are about it, no matter how much of a

  • sceptic you think yourself to be, you can't help but absorb

  • a little bit of it.

  • You can't help but get swept along and you're having, you

  • know, a day, or you're having drinks with friends and these

  • kinds of assumptions come up over and over and over again.

  • And, nobody's stopping you there going: "Hold on a minute."

  • Have you gone to 'PubMed' and actually found that paper?

  • "That's just not something you say on a Friday night,

  • out having a white wine with the ladies."

  • Maybe you don't.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • So, instead of a grown-up conversation

  • (LAUGHING)

  • about women, and desire, and asking, you know, the famous

  • Sigmund Freud question: "What is it a woman

  • really wants?"

  • "we get 'Fifty Shades of Grey' in

  • 'Tesco', and the presumed outcome ofů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • 'Fifty Shades of Grey.' We get sold something that

  • is, you know, to give her credit where it's due, if I

  • had sold 100th as many books as she did, I, yeah, I'd be

  • pretty happy with that

  • (LAUGHING)

  • It's an incredible success story for a writer.

  • It's also an incredible success story because, when

  • you're reading the books and, as many people kind of said,

  • they are appallingly written. And, I say this as somebody

  • who wrote, you know, Chick Lit, ah, they are

  • appallingly written. But, it's a very accurate

  • portrayal of the fantasies of the writer.

  • And, this is why it works as erotica.

  • Because it is impossible to write erotica and be

  • successful with it if you do not also believe in what's

  • happening while you're writing it.

  • And I do think that people get that when they read the

  • books but, you know, on top of the success of 'Fifty shades'

  • we've now got 'The Fifty Shades Sex Toy' set.

  • (FAINT LAUGHTER AND MALE VOICE IN AUDIENCE SAYS

  • SOMETHING INAUDIBLE)

  • Yes, it really exists

  • (LAUGHING)

  • Available on 'lovehoney.co.uk'

  • That bit'll probably be edited out as it sounds like

  • an advert.

  • It's not. Um, we've got hotels

  • that are making 'Fifty Shades Red Rooms

  • of Pain' because

  • (LAUGHING)

  • nothing says 'romance' like booking yourself into the

  • 'Red Room of Pain

  • (LAUGHING)

  • You're gonna hot things up, you know, things have been

  • going a bit cold at home. Get some cable ties.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • Go down to the Travelodge.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • You know, it's usually at that point in the story that

  • somebody from my former profession probably gets

  • murdered but we'll leave that behind.

  • What did the data actually say about Female

  • Sexual Dysfunction?

  • Well, we did have a UK study. This is, ah, "Nazareth,

  • Boynton et al." "This was conducted, ah,

  • using data that was obtained from National Health Service,

  • ah, questionnaires that were administered through the NHS.

  • And 38% of women did report symptoms that were consistent

  • with Female Sexual Dysfunction, at any point in

  • their sexual history."

  • So, it's still pretty high but, again, the sort of

  • diagnostic criteria that are being used are not making any

  • distinction between:

  • 'Did you feel that way two weeks ago, two years ago, two

  • decades ago?'

  • So, it isn't really making the distinction of:

  • "Is this an ongoing problem for you?"

  • Or, was it something fleeting?

  • "because, obviously, those are two hugely

  • different things."

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • Ah, of that, "18% called it a problem

  • "which "6% rated (ů) moderate or severe."

  • "So, again, if you can be diagnosed with something, but

  • it's not bothering you like, say, you're a man diagnosed

  • with testicular cancer, does that mean you're to go in

  • there and operate today?

  • Probably not, probably not until the point where it

  • actually starts to affect your thinking and your life,

  • though some people who could be diagnosed with all kinds

  • of diseases- I actually was diagnosed with arthritis a

  • couple of months ago.

  • Ah, you'll notice this hasn't stopped me wearing high heels

  • because, frankly, it doesn't really bother me.

  • When I get to the point that I'm hobbling around like my

  • Granny, then I'll probably do something about it,

  • but not before.

  • One of the things in this paper, which I though was

  • just a brilliant quote: "Reduced sexual interest or

  • response 'may be' a normal adaptation to stress."

  • "Do you think, that maybe if you're worried about other

  • stuff in your life you might not feel like living

  • out the full 'Fifty Shades' fantasy?

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • I, you know, I come from a proud academic tradition and,

  • ah, and I have to say this represents some of the best

  • stuff that we do.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • It is actually a really good study and a friend of mine a

  • co-author on it but, pointing out the bleeding obvious,

  • doing that with statistics since, since there were

  • universities, basically.

  • And then, of course, we can go back to the famous,

  • classic, ah, study of human sexuality by

  • Masters and Johnson: "nothing could be further

  • from the truth than the concept that aging women do

  • not maintain a high level of sexual orientation."

  • "In other words, you don't need to fear that the

  • menopause, or being married for a long time, or just

  • being older is going to turn it all off for you."

  • And, it's funny to think that we live in an ever-more

  • interconnected society where people, seemingly, have more

  • and more of a voice and able to share their life

  • experiences, I mean, that some hooker wrote a

  • blog, anywayů.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • Um, but that this doesn't really seem to be percolating

  • through; we don't seem to be paying attention to the

  • voices of people who've been married for a very long time,

  • or people who are older, people who are passed the

  • menopause who are saying: "Well, yeah, things come and

  • go, just like it does for everybody else."

  • I'm guessing, some of you may know what this is?

  • The little blue pill.

  • Now, Viagra fixed male sex drives for men.

  • Let's face it, since Viagra men's sex has- it's been

  • perfect for them.

  • Is, is that right men?

  • (FAINT LAUGHTER)

  • To leave, you know, any problems y'all had, any kind

  • of emotional, relationship problemsůthis worked right?

  • (FAINT LAUGHTER)

  • It certainly worked for the pharmaceutical companies.

  • It was a runaway success. I mean, Pfizer is very much

  • the house Viagra built and I don't just mean that in the

  • crude imagery kind of way. Sorry, I'm seeing like cranes

  • in my head and stuff

  • (LAUGHING)

  • Now, the big question has been:

  • 'Why isn't there a Viagra for women?'

  • Why can't women just pop this pill?

  • Why hasn't there been any success when testosterone

  • patches were trialled in women?

  • Or Sildenafil or, any of a number of other

  • pharmaceutical solutions that should be flying off the

  • shelves because of the huge percentage of women who

  • supposedly have Female Sexual Dysfunction and want to do

  • something about it?

  • Maybe it's because the problems both for men and

  • women are a bit more complicated than

  • 'do the relevant bits work?'

  • It could be.

  • There's, ah, there's a reason why you're looking at Joseph

  • Stalin right now, and not just because it amuses me.

  • When I met my husband, we'd been seeing each other for a

  • few weeks, and by 'seeing each other'

  • I meant he came 'round for sex.

  • And then I told him to get the bus home.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • And we had 'the talk.'

  • And, you might be thinking 'the talk'

  • means like: 'Where is this

  • relationship going?'

  • Well, what I really mean is in the 'Cosmo'

  • sense where you actually tell somebody how many people

  • you've slept with.

  • And, kind of stupidly, I went first.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • I really didn't know where to begin because I didn't, I

  • didn't write them down, you know?

  • If you can imagine, if I'd started keeping notches on

  • the headboard, I would have had no headboard, like,

  • years ago.

  • I was like, oh, do you know, it's probably- it's

  • more than 100.

  • It's got to be more than 100. I'd say it's probably more

  • than 300; 500 sounds like too many.

  • I'm getting a feeling that 500's too many but, ah, it's

  • definitely not more than 400.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • And then I turned to him and was like:

  • "Well, how many people have you slept with?"

  • "And, he goes like thisů.I thought:

  • "Fuck me, it's less than five." "That's the kind of people

  • you meet on the internet."

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • And, he said to me, probably, one of the most wonderfully

  • straight from Cosmo lines ever:

  • "I went for quality over quantity."

  • "And, that was when I whipped out my favourite

  • Uncle Joe quote: "Quantity has a quality all

  • its own

  • (LAUGHTER and APPLAUSE)

  • But, sort of turning the whole thing on the

  • heads of, like: women's desire is not

  • something that should really be ruled by how often you're

  • having sex, or how supposedly good some checklist in Cosmo

  • tells you it is.

  • Or, how it's measuring up against what they're doing in

  • 'Fifty Shades'; if it's athletic enough to

  • be good sex.

  • Is it intimate enough or, my own personal bugbear:

  • Are you orgasming simultaneously?

  • Now, I can't speak for everyone else, obviously.

  • I'm assuming your orgasms are like mine.

  • It's the most self-absorbed thing that can ever

  • happen to you.

  • Bombs could be falling

  • (LAUGHING)

  • I don't want that to be happening at the same time as

  • the orgasm of my partner 'cause they're just gonna

  • get ignored.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • Don't even get me started about it, if you're at an orgy.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • Here's the sort of thing that we very often see in

  • men's magazines: the wonderful stock photo.

  • There he is, he's run out of blue pillsů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • ůthere she is, she's never heard of masturbationů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • There's no intimacy here. They're not connecting.

  • These are the adverts that men get, which look

  • reassuringly pharmaceutical.

  • There's white, there's loads of print at the bottom.

  • This actually isn't for a pharmaceutical product at

  • all; it's for some nasal spray.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • And the advertising standards agency, ah, after about six

  • months of this running in all of the men's magazines in the

  • UK made them get rid of this because it was implying

  • things about their product which, blatantly,

  • weren't true.

  • Which was that: if you have a hard-on for 8

  • hours, and you're sawing away at your woman, this is going

  • to be the outcome.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • All you need is this never-ending erection to make

  • women happy. Nowů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • Again, going back to this, this idea that's like:

  • 'if women are only using sex, supposedly, to get things

  • from other people, then, well, what we don't

  • need is Viagra.

  • We need something faster.'

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • We need, like, 15-year-old boy ejaculation hormonesů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • So, that we can get on with the really important business

  • of taking all his money away in the divorce. 'Obvs.'

  • Why do all these sort of things matter?

  • Well, as you've probably picked up, ah, it's a very

  • stereotyped and reductive view both of women's and

  • men's sexuality that comes out of all of these messages.

  • It doesn't really help anyone for us to think that men are

  • one way, women are another way, and never the twain

  • shall meet.

  • And that, whatever it is you're doing, it's wrong, and

  • that you need to change, and that you need to buy

  • something in order to change.

  • And, here's some really crap statistic, that came out of

  • some article that I read, that probably resulted from a

  • press release from some university you never heard

  • of, in order to 'prove' it.

  • It also matters, because the 'Diagnostic criteria, are

  • inconsistent with distress.' If ALL of us are sex addicts,

  • what about the people who really are?

  • If ALL of us have some kind of sexual dysfunction, what

  • about the people whose lives really are effected by this?

  • It's very much generating an enormous population of the

  • 'worried well.' The people who 'think'

  • that they have problems with sex, but don't.

  • And, there are people who genuinely are having problems

  • who are just getting lost in the crowd.

  • They're the needle in the haystack, but everyone's

  • been told: "The haystack?

  • It's made out of needles. We're all needles

  • It deflects 'attention from real causes.'

  • Now, there are some, there's, there's a whole- you can go

  • broad and you can go deep with underlying causes of why

  • people's libidos might change at particular times.

  • So, obviously, there's the emotional aspect.

  • Ah, if you're experiencing stress, you might be unhappy

  • in your relationship, uncomfortable with your

  • partner, for all kinds of reasons.

  • Ah, there could be background things going on in your own

  • history that have put you off sex, or have made you feel

  • uncomfortable with certain kinds of sex.

  • There are also, obviously, medical reasons.

  • People experience loss of sensation.

  • People experience hormonal changes.

  • This could be due to changes in hormonal birth control,

  • and so on, and so forth, and it goes on and on and on.

  • And, if we're reducing these things to a little:

  • 'click here and find out if you're a sex addict'

  • 'click here and find out if you have sexual dysfunction.'

  • It's really deflecting the attention from where it needs

  • to be, from a research point of view, and also, from a

  • public understanding point of view.

  • 'If everyone can be diagnosed with a problem, what about

  • the people who really do' have that problem?

  • Now, I only really covered two sex myths in this.

  • So, you're probably wondering about the other ones because,

  • frankly, that's what you've come here for.

  • 'Do streetwalkers outnumber call girls?'

  • Indoor sex workers out-number streetwalkers 10:1.

  • That one seems to surprise people, even though,

  • obviously, in various parts of Australia, you do have

  • decriminalised brothels. Nevertheless.

  • 'Women don't want sex, they want companionship?'

  • Women, it turns out, are not only interested in sex,

  • they're also interested in porn.

  • But, that's a whole other talk that more or less starts

  • with that 'Fifty Shades' wet floor slide and goes on-

  • it just gets better from there.

  • 'Many women are trafficked for sex?'

  • The sex trafficking statistics are exaggerated

  • and used for political ends. 'Lap dance causes rape?'

  • Rape and sexual assault, certainly in the UK, and

  • especially in London, are actually higher in areas that

  • do not have lap dancing clubs.

  • Now, that is in no way to suggest that lap dancing

  • prevents rapeů

  • (MURMURING IN AUDIENCE)

  • ůbecause that would be very irresponsible- some people do

  • try to claim that- but rather, that these two things

  • are not necessarily related. And, another thing that I

  • really wanted to do when I wrote 'The Sex Myth'

  • was just to put it all out there because there are so

  • many academic studies that never see the light of day

  • because their authors weren't interested in writing press

  • releases and sending it on to the editors of 'Women's Day.'

  • And, to put all these things in one place, because I fully

  • accept that, because of my background, because of the

  • way I'm wired, because of particulars of my history and

  • my education, where I was brought up, and how I was

  • brought up, you might read the same things as me and

  • come to completely different conclusions.

  • But, we need to start having these conversations where

  • we're all on the same page. We're all looking at and

  • discussing the same data, and similar issues.

  • Otherwise, it's just talking at cross purposes.

  • Here's 'Some Sex Truths', since you've heard a lot

  • of sex myths.

  • "US and UK teen pregnancies "are" at their lowest rate

  • since the 1970s.

  • The "Average age of losing virginity

  • "both for boys and girls, it's going "up.

  • "Sexually Transmitted Infections rates among young

  • people continue to fall."

  • "In the over 50s, however, it's going up."

  • "Personal and sexual violence are at historic lows

  • "in the developed world."

  • "Now, this is not to say that that makes those crimes

  • less serious because, obviously, any personal,

  • violent crime against a person is serious."

  • But, again, it goes back to the problem of:

  • if we think something is happening more widely than it

  • actually is happening, it causes problems for areas

  • where it is.

  • It deflects attention away from real causes if we think:

  • "We'll just shut down the lap dancing club and

  • rape will end." That, clearly, has worked

  • out so well.

  • Why all of this? "Why now?" "Why the sex myths?"

  • Well, the "War on Terror" has been a bit of a bust.

  • "So, why not resurrect, that old perennial, the

  • war on sex?"

  • It's worked for millennia.

  • "Welcome to the New Victorian Age"

  • "And that's it."

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • SARAH OAKES: Thank you.

  • That was surprising and fascinating and, I think,

  • really impressive that there's so many sex addicts

  • here today.

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: (LAUGHING)

  • I think I put something out on, sort of, saying:

  • "All the sex addicts, come down to my talk."

  • SARAH OAKES: I'm glad they could make it.

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: Meet me afterwards.

  • SARAH OAKES: Yeah.

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: You know where.

  • SARAH OAKES: Brooke, what I got from your

  • talk and from reading all of the sex myths in your book,

  • ah, is that the sex myths are created and perpetuated

  • because we simply don't talk about sex enough.

  • And, I'm not talking about the kind of sex that we talk

  • about in Cosmo, 'cause, obviously, that's,

  • that's done every month.

  • I'm talking about the kind of rigorous, sophisticated

  • debate that ends myths.

  • And, if you can't do that in columns three times a week,

  • where can we expect to find that from?

  • How we diminish sex myths? Whose responsibility is it?

  • And, where are those voices?

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: I do think that, largely, it

  • is the responsibility of the media to realise that we're

  • doing this.

  • To realise that, on some level, there's a lot of being

  • lazy when it comes to writing these stories.

  • And, ah, and it's, it's been a funny experience, actually,

  • going from somebody who reads the newspapers and magazines,

  • to somebody who writes for the newspapers and magazines

  • and seeing what the other side of it is like.

  • And, how much pressure there is; how much editorial

  • pressure, to make things fit in with a certain kind of

  • flavour of the magazine that you're writing for,

  • for instance.

  • Um, but also as well, the resources have been so

  • reduced in print media to the point where, there aren't

  • really in-house fact checkers any more, in the way there

  • used to be.

  • Ah, fewer editors, fewer people are seeing the copy

  • before it goes out.

  • Um, and, and like you were saying earlier when we

  • were backstage: "if something's wrong, it's

  • not wrong for long." This idea that:

  • "Oh, well, just go and change it if it's wrong."

  • "Or, it'll just get buried very, very quickly."

  • It's like we're living this endless 'Twitter'

  • stream where, a couple of days later, something's just

  • down low enough that nobody really pays attention to what

  • the reality is.

  • SARAH OAKES: So, we're doomed.

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: Yeah. But, luckily,

  • we're still having sex so we're not that doomed.

  • SARAH OAKES: Okay, that's, that's

  • the up side?

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: Yeah. But there, but there is

  • the whole, you know, I mean, as you say, in, in talking about

  • sex and having these grown-up conversations, I really wish

  • that we could start to talk about good sexual health, in

  • this, sort of, personal sexual health and

  • relationships education- 'Sex Ed', not just for

  • teens but for grown-ups as well- that we could talk

  • about those issues the way we talk about good sex.

  • SARAH OAKES: Mm.

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: Because it's become

  • completely acceptable to talk about nipple clamps.

  • I can say: "double anal fisting"

  • in front of my grandmother.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • I cannot talk to her very easily about something like:

  • "Well, you were married for a very long time and, ah,

  • what's it like in the bedroom? You know?"

  • We can't have these much more serious and, actually, much

  • more intimate conversations.

  • SARAH OAKES: Mm. This book, like your

  • previous works, it shocks people, it surprises people, it

  • makes some people angry. And, like all of your other

  • books, even though they were a very different style to

  • this one, obviously, there's a lot of 'you' in it.

  • There's a lot of personal.

  • And, is it harder to read that criticism when so much

  • of your private life is public and you share so much

  • of yourself personally?

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: Sometimes it is.

  • And, I think I've gone through ups and

  • downs with this.

  • Ah, I think lots of writers do though.

  • You kind of have this feeling of, of passing, ah, a certain

  • threshold where the audience starts talking back to you.

  • And, sometimes the things they're saying

  • aren't very nice.

  • And, you're thinking: "Well, I'm just thinking

  • about my experience of the world, and not claiming to

  • talk for anyone else."

  • "But then, at the same time, we all turn around and do

  • that to other people as well."

  • I mean, Monday night, I- you know I'm going to be doing

  • that to Germaine Greer.

  • SARAH OAKES: This is the

  • 'Q & A.' Brooke will be on

  • 'Q & A' on Monday night.

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: And it's, it's this sense in

  • which we take people who write about their own lives.

  • We almost see them as objects rather than people.

  • We objectify them. But, to be fair, writers do

  • put themselves out there for this.

  • And, yeah, I think there did come a point, sort of, back

  • in 2009, when my real identity came out, where I

  • could have just, sort of, shut the door.

  • Let people say whatever they want to say for a few weeks

  • and for a few months and to go away.

  • And then, I thought to myself:

  • "No, actually."

  • I'm a bit of a gobby, opinionated bitch.

  • "Ah, this is: "This is my opportunity to

  • have a soapbox and a bang on about this shit forever."

  • Soů

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • SARAH OAKES: You seized it.

  • Now, I might take this opportunity to remind people

  • to go to the microphones.

  • Um, I'll just ask one last question, then we'll go to

  • the audience.

  • Now, the public find it really hard to

  • pigeon-hole you.

  • But, they do find you very shocking, as we've just

  • discussed from some of that feedback.

  • What do you think that it is that shocks people most about

  • you, if I gave you some options?

  • Is itů

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: Do I have to pick from

  • those options?

  • SARAH OAKES: You don't have to.

  • You can go anywhere you like.

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: We can go right back to

  • double anal fisting.

  • SARAH OAKES: Yeah, okay- I don't know if I

  • can go there again.

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: (INAUDIBLE)

  • SARAH OAKES: Ah, is it because you're a

  • woman who talks about enjoying sex?

  • Is it because you're a well-educated women who

  • worked as a sex worker?

  • Or, is it because you're a person who 'says'

  • they enjoy sex work?

  • Or, is it none of those things?

  • What do you think people find most confronting?

  • BROOKE MAGNANTI: I think all of those things

  • are, actually, permissible. Because, obviously, before

  • me, there was Tracy Quan; before Tracy Quan, there was

  • Xaviera Hollander. You know, you've always had

  • your outspoken, gobby, sex-worker type.

  • Um, I think it's the fact that I don't apologise for

  • any of it.

  • That makes people really uncomfortable.

  • And, I can't really speak about how the television

  • media are here- but also, as well the print media- in the

  • UK there was a lot of pressure to have a moment to

  • go on a breakfast show and to tell the country how sorry I

  • was about what I did, how much I regretted it, and how

  • I am, you know, I've been made an honest woman of now.

  • I'm completely safe and I'm not coming for your husbands

  • and/or children.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • And, it's the refusal to apologise for my past that I

  • think really puts people off.

  • But my thinking on that is: "I can't actually change any

  • of it."

  • And I wouldn't have apologised for it

  • at the time.

  • So, it would seem really disingenuous to do that now.

SARAH OAKES: Good afternoon.

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