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  • >>female presenter: Welcome to Authors at Google. I'm Rebecca Moore, and I'm privileged

  • to introduce our speaker Dr. Victoria Sweet. I was going to talk about her new book, God's

  • Hotel: a Doctor, a Hospital, and a Pilgrimage to the Heart of Medicine. The book launched

  • just one month ago. I think, as Googlers, we can relate to working long and hard on

  • something, maybe for more than a year. You're passionate about it, you launch it, and then

  • you wait with some trepidation to see what's going to happen. Well, the great news is that

  • God's Hotel is taking off like a rocket ship. We're very privileged to have Dr. Sweet with

  • us here to talk about it. In its first week, it made it onto the San Francisco Chronicle

  • Best Sellers list. Two days ago, it was just reviewed by the New York Times' Science Times,

  • who called it "transcendent and a tour de force." Congratulations on that.

  • Dr. Sweet is both a physician and a prize-winning historian with a Ph. D. in history and social

  • medicine. She's also associate clinical professor of medicine at UC San Francisco, and I'm personally

  • happy to say that she studied mathematics and Greek at Stanford University. Go Stanford.

  • [laughter] There will be time for Q&A at the end, and

  • Victoria will sign books for those of you who would like them. Finally, just on a personal

  • note, I've known Victoria for many, many years. She has always been someone who was comfortable

  • taking the road less traveled. I think, now, with God's Hotel, she's created a whole new

  • road to a place and time that few of us even knew existed. And now she's here to tell us

  • about it. Please welcome Dr. Victoria Sweet.

  • [applause]

  • >>Victoria Sweet: Is that microphone working? Well, thank you very much, Rebecca. Thank

  • you all for being here today. Thanks Google for letting me speak here.

  • Laguna Honda Hospital was like no hospital I had ever seen or even imagined. I got there

  • kinda accidentally. I had decided to go back to school to get my Ph. D. in medical history

  • after I had been practicing medicine for many years. Laguna Honda was the only place that

  • would let me practice medicine part time. So I went over for my interview. When I saw

  • it for the first time, I was nonplussed. It was high on a hill, overlooking the ocean,

  • and it looked like a medieval, Romanesque monastery. It had peach colored walls, a red

  • tiled roof, a bell tower, and turrets. After my interview, the medical director took

  • me out to show me around. She showed me the long, open wards that go all the way back

  • to when monks took care of the sick poor in the monasteries for free. When went upstairs

  • and she showed me the surgery suite, which looks like where Humphrey Bogart had his face

  • redone in "Man Without a Face." We walked past the old-fashioned beauty salon with its

  • steel helmet hairdryers. She showed me the library, the auditorium, and the chapel, which

  • was really more like a small church with polished wooden pews, stained glass windows, and the

  • stations of the cross along the walls. Then we went out and she showed me the gardens.

  • Turned out that Laguna Honda had been the almshouse for the city, and it was on 62 acres.

  • It is still on 62 acres of land in the middle of San Francisco. The gardens are extensive.

  • She showed me the greenhouse, the aviary, and the little barnyard. So the patients could

  • pot plants, watch chickens hatch from eggs, and even see animals, even if they were bed-bound.

  • Then we walked back to her office, and she offered me the job. I didn't know. I wasn't

  • sure. I told her I would come for two months, but I stayed for 20 years. Turned out to be

  • a wonderful place to practice medicine. Part of that was the place itself. The place was

  • a great place to practice medicine in terms of its spaciousness, kinda ramshackle. But

  • what really made it incredible were the patients, because it turns out that Laguna Honda was

  • the original almshouse for the city. That was how we used to take care of the sick poor.

  • That's how we used to take care of the sick poor before there was health insurance. There

  • would be a free county hospital and a free county almshouse. The acutely ill would be

  • taken care of in the free county almshouse-- county hospital. And then, if they needed

  • additional care or nobody new what else to do with them, they were transferred to the

  • almshouse. It used to be that every county in the country had a free county hospital

  • and a free county almshouse, and that was how we took care of the sick poor. Starting

  • in the '50s, the almshouses across the United States were closed, and many of the county

  • hospitals, except for San Francisco, which still has its county hospital and still has

  • its almshouse, albeit now called a hospital. So the patients, as you can imagine, are the

  • bottom 0.1% of the population. What I've found is that they were two standard deviations

  • from the mean. Any mean. They were the tallest and the shortest, the fattest and the thinnest,

  • the nicest and the meanest, of any patients I ever had. They had every disease, too. They

  • taught me a tremendous amount about medicine and health care, cure and caring, efficiency

  • and inefficiency. The two months went by, and then a year or

  • two, and I really didn't notice that the years had gone by or that I was learning a lot from

  • the patients until I got to my patient, Mrs. Todd. [pause] Ms. Todd was 35 years old. She

  • had cancer. Her cancer was brain cancer. What made it horrible was that it was just behind

  • her right eye, and it had grown, in spite of surgery and radiation, right out of her

  • eye. The surgeons had removed the eye and sewn the eyelid down over the cancer, but

  • the cancer was still growing. Ms. Todd had never been beautiful, but what with the radiation,

  • which had caused her hair to fall out, the steroids, which had caused her face to balloon,

  • and the sewn eyelid, she was very hard to look at. Yet she was pleasant and quiet. She

  • always smiled as I passed her by. Eventually, we were on speaking terms, with a quick "Hello"

  • and "How are you?" from me to her and from her to me. I got used to her deformity, although

  • only by blocking out, in some way, my experience of her experience.

  • One day, I finally braved my reluctance and stopped by her bed, full stop. We looked at

  • each other. She at me: white coated and rushed, a bit disheveled. I looked only at her left

  • eye. "Is there anything I can do for you?" I asked her after we talked a bit. "Yes,"

  • she replied, "there is. I really don't like the food they're giving me. It's all cut up

  • and bland. Do you think it could be changed? And another thing. Could you arrange for me

  • to visit the eye doctor? I need a new pair of glasses." I was, and am to this day, floored

  • by her response. I was, and am, awestruck by such equanimity. She wanted, not euthanasia

  • or a miraculous cure, stronger pain medication, or a second opinion, but different food, a

  • pair of glasses. She said nothing about her terrible misfortune. She was calm, matter-of-fact.

  • Somehow, she'd accepted her fate. It was the small things, the little daily things, that

  • were important to her. We did change her diet, and we did get her new glasses. Not long after,

  • she moved to another ward, and there she died peacefully, 18 months later.

  • Ms. Todd capped my experience of those first years of Laguna Honda. She summarized it and

  • hinted at what I would be learning later. Even when there's nothing to do for a patient,

  • no cancer to discover, no paradoxical pulse to take, there is still something to do. It

  • doesn't have to be life saving, grandiose, and heroic. It can be as simple as a pair

  • of glasses or a different diet. In fact, it usually is. [pause] [clattering]

  • I learned a tremendous amount from the patients at Laguna Honda. If I had to summarize what

  • I learned in one sentence, it would be that the practice of medicine is a personal relationship

  • between doctor and patient. And when it's personal, it works. The best way, the easiest

  • way I can explain what I mean is to tell you the story of Dr. Curtis and the case of the

  • missing shoes. [pause] I learned a lot from Dr. Curtis, but it was in the case of the

  • missing shoes that he taught me the most about care and caring, time and inefficiency.

  • On this particular day, I met him by accident in the wide-windowed corridor that ran the

  • length of the hospital and connected all the wards. He was in a hurry. "Where was he going?"

  • I asked. "Back to the rehabilitation ward," he said, where he was covering for a few weeks.

  • The rehabilitation ward was its own mini hospital within Laguna Honda. It admitted the patients

  • with the milder strokes and the less traumatic head injuries, most of whom would recover

  • and be discharged back to their homes, if they had them. Although its patients, too,

  • were often without friends, money, or health insurance, like the admitting ward, it had

  • its own physicians to admit, examine, and discharge its patients. This month, Dr. Curtis

  • was one of them. He'd just returned from outside the hospital, he told me, and was heading

  • back to a patient who, having been rehabilitated after a stroke, had been ready for discharge

  • for months. Every day, when Dr. Curtis made his rounds, checking on the 36 patients on

  • the ward, this patient was still there, still zipping around in his wheelchair, still going

  • to therapy. Finally, Dr. Curtis said, "I asked him why, since he was able to walk, he was

  • still here. Why was he still in the wheelchair? Why hadn't he been discharged?" "No shoes,

  • doc. They ordered me special shoes, but they're waiting for Medicaid to approve them." "How

  • long have they been waiting?" Dr. Curtis asked. "Three months." Dr. Curtis thought a bit.

  • "What size shoe do you wear?" "Size 9." Dr. Curtis reflected for a while. He thought about

  • his duties, his other patients, the charts he had to dictate, the quality assurance forms

  • he had to fill out. Then he left the hospital, got in his car, and drove to Wal-Mart, where

  • he bought a pair of size 9 running shoes for $16.99. He'd just come back with the shoes

  • and was going over to the ward to put them on the patient and write the discharge orders.

  • "Was he planning to submit his receipt for reimbursement?" I asked. He laughed.

  • As I watched him hurry back to the rehabilitation ward, I wondered. Why had Dr. Curtis done

  • this, and why hadn't anyone else? It was a simple thing to do, but it never would have

  • occurred to me to do it. I would've been frustrated with the shoe delay, of course, and I would

  • have filled out a second or even a third Medicaid form. I might even have written Medicaid,

  • or braved its phone tree to complain about the time that pair of shoes was taking. But

  • it would never have occurred to me to go to Wal-Mart and buy the patient's shoes. I had

  • too much to do, too many forms to fill out, too many other patients to see. It would have

  • meant crossing an inefficiency boundary. And yet, Dr. Curtis got in his car without much

  • questioning and was hurrying back to the ward with the shoes to put them on the patient

  • himself. He reminded me of an aphorism I loved but

  • had never understood. "The secret in the care of the patient is in caring for the patient."

  • I'd always assumed that mean caring about the patient, loving or at least liking the

  • patient, but when I saw Dr. Curtis rushing off to put shoes on a patient he barely knew,

  • I thought there must be more to it than that. So I tracked down the quote and found it in

  • a talk by Dr. Francis Peabody to the graduating medical class of Harvard in 1927. Turned out

  • that Dr. Peabody didn't mean caring about a patient, but caring for a patient, which

  • he explained meant doing the little things, the little personal things that nurses usually

  • do: adjusting a patient's bedclothes, giving him sips of water. That took time, Dr. Peabody

  • admitted, and wasn't perhaps the most efficient way for doctors to spend their time, but it

  • was worth it, he told his students, because that kind of time costly caring was what created

  • the personal relationship between patient and doctor. And that relationship was the

  • secret of healing. [pause] In the meantime-- [pause] In the meantime,

  • I'd started my Ph. D. in medical history. I was studying the medical writings of Hildegard

  • of Bingen. Hildegard was a 12th century German nun. She was also a visionary, a mystic, a

  • composer, and, as it turned out, a medical practitioner. She'd written a book about medicine.

  • It was fascinating. There was not the "eye of newt, toe of frog" medicine I expected

  • from a medieval medical text. It was real medicine from real patients with real diseases

  • that I could recognize. But it was based on a completely different idea of the body than

  • our mechanical model. Hildegard's idea was that the body was more like a plant than a

  • machine. And the doctor more like a gardener than a mechanic. What's the difference? The

  • difference is that someone has to fix a broken machine. [pause] But a plant can heal itself.

  • [pause] Hildegard called the power of a plant to heal

  • itself its viriditas, its greening power, from the Latin "viridis", meaning "green."

  • She thought that human beings also had viriditas, a natural power of healing, and that the doctor,

  • therefore, should be more like a gardener cultivating that viriditas, removing obstructions

  • to it, nourishing it, than like a mechanic. I didn't really understand what Hildegard

  • meant by viriditas until my patient Terry Becker. Terry Becker was one of my bad girls.

  • Actually, the New York Times called her the "worst girl" and I thought that was actually

  • a good way to put it. She was homeless and lived on the street with her boyfriend, Mike.

  • She smoked and drank and used drugs. One day, she woke up paralyzed from the neck down.

  • She went to the county hospital, and they discovered that she had a rare viral disease

  • called transverse myelitis, that has no treatment but does tend to get better over time. They

  • sent her over to Laguna Honda. She was on rehabilitation, and she did pretty well. She

  • started to get better for about the first two weeks. But then the first of the month

  • rolled around, when the homeless in San Francisco get paid, get welfare cash. Mike, her cute

  • boyfriend, showed up, and out they went. She disappeared for about a year. Later, I found

  • out that during that year, she'd been seen in the emergency room at County 28 times,

  • and had 3 long admissions to the County. Each time, just as she was getting better, going

  • out on the streets. During that time, she developed a bedsore. Mike also robbed her

  • and beat her up. She went back and forth to the County getting very expensive operations

  • to cover the bedsore with a skin graft every time she went out. Finally, the bedsore was

  • too big to graft. County didn't know what to do, and they sent her over to Laguna Honda

  • for treatment. [pause] [clattering] When I examined her, I was really quite shocked.

  • She didn't look-- She looked pretty sick. She was only 37. She looked like she was in

  • her 50s at least. It was the bedsore that really shocked me. It was the worst I'd ever

  • seen. It was huge, enormous, and deep. It went from the middle of her back all the way

  • down to her tail bone, and it spanned both of her sitz bones. The skin was completely

  • gone, of course, but so were the fat and the muscles that covered the spine. In their place

  • was an unidentifiable mass of decayed and decaying and infected tissue from the failed

  • skin grafts. At the bottom of this wide, deep hole, I could see bone: Terry's spine. Terry's

  • bedsore was scary. She had no protection. Everything delicate and crucial in her body--

  • bones, kidneys, spinal cord-- was exposed and vulnerable to an environment full of germs.

  • Giving antibiotics to try to prevent infection wouldn't work because the bacteria would get

  • resistant to them. The bedsore really was too big to graft, even if the surgeons agreed.

  • It would have to heal on its own, and that would take years. In the meantime, what chance

  • did Terry have of not getting an overwhelming infection that would kill her?

  • I walked back to our little doctors' office and sat down at my rickety desk. I stared

  • for quite a while at the wooden shelf on which was Mrs. McCoy's robust plant, now grown all

  • over the wall. The bedsore was a catastrophe, and possibly the end of Miss Terry Becker.

  • The second time with the patient, I thought about Hildegard. I asked myself, "What would

  • Hildegard do? How would she treat Terry Becker's huge and open wound?" What she would do, I

  • suddenly saw, was remove obstructions to Terry's viriditas, because if nothing was in its way,

  • then viriditas would heal her wound as surely as a plant will grow green. "What was in its

  • way?" I asked myself. The massive dead tissue was in its way and needed to be removed. Any

  • pressure on Terry's body from wrinkled bedclothes, to hard mattresses, was in its way and had

  • to be removed. Dirt, unkemptness, stale clothes, unnecessary medications, fear, depression,

  • all were in its way. My first job, therefore, as gardener doctor

  • was not to make a brilliant diagnosis or give any magical medication, but remove obstructions

  • to Terry's own viriditas. It was quite amazing how fast Hildegard's prescription worked.

  • Within a few weeks, I began to see signs of healing deep within Terry's wound. There was

  • no infection. Deep down, at the base of the wound, is it my imagination? There was a smooth

  • and pink glistening which was starting to cover and protect the spine. But then the

  • first of the month rolled around, and Mike showed up. He was still pretty cute, still

  • wearing his tight Levi's, still walking with a flirtatious though constrained strut. The

  • nurses made him wait in the smoking room. Terry wheeled herself on her gurney, face

  • down, back covered, the whole length of the ward. Then she rolled into the smoking room.

  • They were in there a long time. Then the door opened, and Mike came out and left. Terry

  • had thrown him out. She told him never to come back. Then she stopped smoking, so her

  • appetite improved and she gained weight. Without nicotine constricting her blood vessels, the

  • tiny new arteries and veins at the base of her bedsore could absorb the vitamins and

  • protein she was eating, and the hole in her backside began to fill in.

  • Since I did not check the bedsore daily, but only once a week, its progress seemed as magical

  • to me as one of those time lapse movies they showed us in school, where a plant grows from

  • a seed in a matter of minutes. Terry's wound began to look like a huge scab. The scab thickened

  • until it was even with the rest of the skin, and then just as petals push against the constriction

  • of the bud and open it, the scab flaked off and there was pink skin underneath. That awful

  • crater filled in from bottom to top and from side to side. It took a long time. It took

  • two and a half years. But we were in no hurry, and neither was she. [pause]

  • Terry changed the way I practiced medicine. After that, I not only looked at patients

  • with the eye of the modern doctor, focusing in on what was wrong with the patient and

  • how I could fix it, I also stepped back and looked at the patient in the context of his

  • environment and asked myself, "Is there something I can do to encourage this patient's viriditas?

  • Is there something I can do to remove what's in the way?"

  • What I found was that this kind of slow medicine worked very well for patients with slow diseases,

  • diseases that were long in developing, chronic diseases, for which medicine had no really

  • good treatment. I began to think of it as slow medicine as opposed to the fast medicine

  • that I also use, which works so well for fast diseases: heart attacks, appendicitis, cancer,

  • but doesn't work so well after the heart attack, the appendectomy, the chemotherapy. [pause]

  • Then, about halfway through my time at Laguna Honda, things started to change. There was

  • a big push to turn the old fashioned hospital into a modern health care facility. There

  • was a lot of battles, politics, and struggles, especially between the director of public

  • health, whom I call Dr. Stein in the book, and the doctors, nurses, and administrators

  • of Laguna Honda. Finally, one day, Dr. Stein had had enough. He replaced the medical director,

  • the nursing director, and the executive administrator all at once with his own picks. They were

  • to come over to the hospital and transform the hospital into a modern facility.

  • The name of the new executive administrator, I call Mr. Conley. This is what happened.

  • [pause] Mr. Conley was a bluff, hearty fellow with an energetic, gravely voice, red hair,

  • and red beard. He reminded me of the youngish Henry VIII around the time he fell in love

  • with Anne Boleyn. He was, as they said in the Middle Ages, Dr. Stein's man. His orders

  • were to change Laguna Honda from an old fashioned almshouse to a modern health care and rehabilitation

  • facility. He had been warned by Dr. Stein about the obstructions he would face: the

  • balky doctors, the obstreperous nun, the ex-director of nursing. Mr. Conley was prepared. But Mr.

  • Conley, with the best will in the world, eventually made a fatal mistake. He stepped out of the

  • administration wing and met the patients of Laguna Honda.

  • I don't know how it happened, but I suppose it had to do with the crashing of our computers.

  • Every computer in the hospital and everything about them: email, printing, all the laboratory

  • data, all the forms. The computers went down and stayed down for months. It was fortunate

  • that the hospital was as big and sloppy as it was, because not everything was on those

  • computers. Most of us still had our books. The telephones were still plugged into the

  • walls. We still had our wooden mailboxes, overhead paging, and clocks. There was no

  • email, however. So instead of sitting in his re-redecorated administration wing and shooting

  • out electronic missives, Mr. Conley had to scribble his messages of pieces of paper,

  • and when they were important, deliver them himself. Huffing and puffing, the whole long

  • length of the hospital, himself praying that the elevator would start and not stop midway,

  • himself praying. Passing the tattooed smokers in Harmony Park, like the rest of us, Mr.

  • Conley fell under Laguna Honda's spell. He began to say "Hello" to the patients he passed.

  • He began to know some of them. He began to visit them in their rooms and on the open

  • wards. And he softened. He got a bit confused. Perhaps there were patients at Laguna Honda,

  • and not simply resident. Perhaps Laguna Honda was a hospital, and not a health care and

  • rehabilitation facility. So even after the computers were fixed, which took four months,

  • and I was surprised at how much less work I had while they were down, even including

  • telephoning the lab for my results, Mr. Conley continued to step out of the administration

  • wing and visit the patients. Not with Miss Lester's compressed mouth and eagle eye, but

  • still he sat on beds, he talked, he listened, and he learned about the hospital from the

  • patients' point of view, which would be fatal. Mr. Conley changed after that. Not so much

  • his decisions, which came down from above, [pause] [knocking sound] but the way he felt

  • about his decisions, because he knew the patients now. He knew how his decisions would affect

  • them. What I learned from that is that it wasn't only medicine that had to be personal.

  • Administration has to be personal, too. [pause] Over the past 20 years, I've watched medicine--

  • the pendulum of health care swing from the personal to the efficient, and I have been

  • amazed by how inefficient that efficient health care has turned out to be. Healthcare costs

  • keep rising astronomically every year. Patients, doctors, and even economists are more and

  • more frustrated. Nobody seems to know what to do. So let me end with showing you what

  • happened when modern, efficient health care landed at Laguna Honda. [pause]

  • What I did is I put together a graph over the 20 years I was at Laguna Honda. As cost-cutting

  • measures, the patients were gradually whittled down by about 40%, from 1178 to 780. The doctors

  • were also whittled down, from about 32 to 9, about by 80%. The clinical staff was whittled

  • down by about 30%. But the budget kept rising. What's more, the total staff stayed the same.

  • Why was that? We kept having more and more administration and management. [pause] In

  • fact, by the time I left, the day I left I looked around and realized that there were

  • more quality assurance managers at Laguna Honda than there were doctors. That was pretty

  • scary. What does all this new management do? It's

  • hard to know for sure, but the one thing there are more of at Laguna Honda today than when

  • I started there is forms. When I first got to Laguna Honda, there were two forms of one

  • page each. The day before I left, I took out a random chart, opened it up, and counted.

  • There were 43 forms, and most of them were three, five, ten pages long.

  • I made a rather complicated scribbled graph of this, but I think it's worthwhile looking

  • at it. I don't have little pointers, so you just have to follow me, but you can see the

  • patients in the blue in the middle are going down, down, down, down. The doctors, the physicians,

  • in the black, going down, down, down. The budget, that blue line that just goes up.

  • And the forms, which is the red line, going way up. I've actually pulled this out to,

  • assuming that the present trends continue, in 2024, if they continue, there will be no

  • patients at Laguna Honda, [laughter], two physicians, 1400 FTE and a budget of 280 million

  • dollars. I think it's time for us to all work together

  • to give that pendulum of health care a nudge backwards, towards the inefficient, the human,

  • and the personal. Thank you very much.

  • [applause]

  • >>male#1: I had a question about the bad girl patient.

  • >>Sweet: Yes.

  • >>male#1: What exactly was it that helped her to turn around her life and break free

  • of her abusive, exploitive boyfriend?

  • >>Sweet: Yeah, yeah.

  • >>male#1: Is it about the care she received, or was it something that she just had reached

  • a point where she knew it was either death or completely transform her life? Any idea?

  • >>Sweet: It's a great question. Can everybody hear that? Good. Okay, great. I think that's

  • a beautiful question, actually, to ask. I ask myself that a lot. I think there are two

  • things. That last time, Terry was way at the end of the ward, and she had a very special

  • nursing assistant named Connie. I noticed that Connie's patients always got better.

  • It was just something about Connie. She was also kinda trapped because she was on that

  • gurney lying down, face down, for weeks. I just think she had some kind of change of

  • heart. It was really a very mysterious change of heart, but that was her true healing. In

  • fact, the name of this chapter I called the Miraculous Healing of Terry Becker. And that,

  • what you put your finger on, is exactly the miracle, that she made that decision. I don't

  • really know why, but I do know that decision stayed made, and that once she was healed,

  • and not only was she healed of her bedsore, but by the time the bedsore was healed, everything

  • else about her was healed. We'd found her family, which hadn't seen her in 10 or 12

  • years. Her family wanted to have her back home with them. We had a patient gift fund

  • at Laguna Honda, so we could get the money together to send her back home. She'd fattened

  • up. She had a whole personality change, from irritable, frustrated, and kinda mean, to

  • kind and grateful. She was like a completely different person. I know that she went back

  • to her home and stayed. She never went back on the streets.

  • >>female #1: Going off from this last slide, what do we do to make that happen?

  • >>Sweet: You know, I don't know quite the answer to that, except I am getting so much

  • attention for this book and these ideas. I feel a little bit like the kid in The Emperor's

  • New Clothes. I'm like, "But there are just no clothes here. I mean, come on, people.

  • Like, medicine is personal? Is that the most unbelievably smart thing you've ever heard?

  • No! It's like, hello! So I'm getting this kind of reaction from people. I think it's

  • going to make a change, I almost think just by thinking about this, recognizing it. I

  • think it's going to change anyway, because, fortunately, we live in a capitalist country.

  • The fact is, not only is it-- It is in fact more efficient, it saves money, when the doctor

  • has enough time to do a good job, get the right diagnosis, take you off the medications

  • you don't need. It saves money. I think once the capitalist health systems realizes that

  • it's cheaper to give doctors enough time to see patients, than it is to whittle us down

  • so that we just have to order a whole bunch of tests, it will change on its own, I do

  • believe. I just think there's kind of a will out there, because the doctors, they'll love

  • what I'm saying here, and the patients, everybody. It's like a trip.

  • >>male #2: I'm curious, did Terry have substance issues, and was becoming sober [clears throat]

  • part of her recovery?

  • >>Sweet: Absolutely. Absolutely. But as you probably know, making that decision to become

  • sober. It really was-- When she went in that room, I can remember

  • right now, we were all just cringing. This had happened over and over again. We were

  • just sure Mike and she would be rolling out together. And when I saw-- It still gives

  • me shivers. When I saw Mike walk out of that-- The door opened, he walks out, and he's by

  • himself. And I remember him walking out the ward, we had swinging doors, and he went through

  • the doors and they swing shut. Then Terry rolled herself out of that room back to her

  • bed. I was like, "Wow. Something happened there." And then, of course, she did give

  • up smoking. Once she gave up smoking, everything sort of fell into place. But why, I don't

  • know. I don't really know. Yes.

  • >>male #3: With the popularity of your book, have the decision makers at any of the medical

  • facilities reached out to you to learn how they can reproduce the success of your experience?

  • >>Sweet: I'm starting to get a few things like that. [pause] But it's really just starting.

  • I'm getting invitations to talk at different places. I've had a few, but I'm actually wanting

  • to get like Washington-level, because they have-- huh?

  • >>male #3: inaudible

  • >>Sweet: [scoffs] I don't know, what about the surgeon emperor or something. [laughter]

  • Really powerful, you know? Yes.

  • >>female #2: When I look at the medical profession here, and actually, I should just add a footnote:

  • my mother is actually currently in hospital. She's been in for a couple weeks, and probably

  • be in another week. But I feel very comfortable about that--

  • >>Sweet: Is she here, or in Italy?

  • >>female #2: because she's not in America, she's in Italy. So I think she's going to

  • be fine. [laughter] Well, I mean that seriously, because, anyway. I mean, a lot of that's the

  • talk you're giving here. But one of the issues in America that I see that's very different

  • is everybody seems to want a quick pill fix-it thing, and if they don't get a quick fix-it,

  • they go to the legal system. So one of the issues that I keep thinking comes up around

  • medicine, why it is the way it is in this country, is a lot around malpractice, financial

  • covering your ass, a bunch of stuff like that. If you switch into being more inefficient

  • and human, the doctors are going to have to spend more time with their patients--

  • >>Sweet: Absolutely.

  • >>female #2: which means fewer patients. The whole equation in this country is in one direction,

  • and all of this-- Of course there's that other piece, that all too many doctors seem to be

  • focused on the money, and not so much on the caring. That's the stereotype that I see around.

  • All these pieces play in to an equation, as you were describing, that's around money and

  • efficiency and this and that and forms. About covering your ass and covering your pocketbook.

  • I'd like to know more about, you know.

  • >>Sweet: Well, there are alternatives. To me, what we need in this country is an experiment.

  • In a way, Laguna Honda for me was an experiment. I have many, many cases where it's quite clear

  • that the Laguna Honda treatment-- Terry is a perfect example. You can say, "Two and a

  • half years in the hospital, that's huge." But before she'd been in the hospital, she'd

  • been going back and forth, getting $100,000 operations. Back and forth. You could say,

  • "Why treat her at all?" and that's a different discussion. But if we're going to take care

  • of people, then I was quite sure, from what I saw at Laguna Honda, that it was cheaper

  • the Laguna Honda way: to take the time. I can give you a very practical example. Doctors

  • are cheap. One of the things that's happened in this country is the economists, when they

  • were trying to cut costs, they assumed doctors were really expensive, so they've been de-skilling

  • doctoring onto nursing and nursing onto dadadadada. But in fact, doctors are quite cheap. I'll

  • make $100 an hour. If I spend an hour with the patient, and that hour allows me not to

  • get an $1800 MRI, we're way ahead of the game. So I think one place to start is to just have

  • a model and show that, because if they show that Kaiser and HMOs, then everybody's going

  • to go, "Well, that's way cheap. We'll just give doctors back their time. That is cheaper."

  • In terms of malpractice, of course there's all that, and it's complicated, but I will

  • say this: that the malpractice, what they say is that you do not actually get sued as

  • a physician when you make a mistake. You get sued when the patient feels you didn't care

  • about them. I have found that to be the case so far. I really have. I think a lot of the

  • malpractice issue is a little bit of a covering. I think we could do this. I think what's going

  • to happen, it actually is happening. While I was writing this book-- This is actually

  • happening, because what's happening is doctors are saying they can't take it any more and

  • they're doing this concierge whatever, boutique whatever kind of stupid name they've got for

  • it. This idea that it's more like CSA, like Community Sponsored Agriculture, where you

  • pay upfront, you pay $100 a month or $150 a month and the doctor gets his patients upfront.

  • Instead of having to have 1000 patients to pay his bills, he doesn't need any back office

  • because he gets paid upfront. He can have 250 patients, and with those 250 patients,

  • he has all the time in the world to take care of them. So that's actually an experiment

  • that's a hidden experiment that's going on right now. It's very interesting. The patients

  • are thrilled, the doctors are thrilled. It's very interesting

  • Yes.

  • >>male #4: I really admit that I may not know the facts correctly in this, but I understand

  • that there's something of a shortage of doctors. If doctors are inexpensive, then we should

  • have more of them. Is there something we should be doing to foster more doctors being out

  • there so we can have more slow medicine?

  • >>Sweet: Well, that's a complicated question. You don't know, and I don't really know, but

  • I think there's two pieces of it. The shortage is in what they like to call primary care

  • doctors. I'm an internist. I'm like the front person to take care of you. And there seems

  • to be a shortage. Why? I don't want to do it. I don't want to get an unbelievably complicated

  • patient and have ten minutes to spend with the patient, of which I spend three minutes

  • on the computer, seven minutes-- You can't do it. So what you're having is doctors are

  • not going into primary care. They're going into subspecialties. And if I had a kid who's

  • going into medicine, I would tell them, "Do not do what I did. You get yourself a nice

  • little specialty where you can do a good job, and you can have a satisfying practice." So

  • I think there's plenty of doctors, but they're not going into primary care. That's one thing.

  • The second thing is my generation of doctors are dropping out of the system like flies.

  • We don't want to. We love taking care of patients. I think if we could take care of patients

  • the way we wanted, I think it's a little bit-- That's my sense, is there's probably plenty

  • of doctors, but shifting who does what is more the issue than educating more docs.

  • [applause]

>>female presenter: Welcome to Authors at Google. I'm Rebecca Moore, and I'm privileged

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