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  • This is Taipei, capital of Taiwan, an island democracy of 23 million people.

  • But Taiwan's international status is highly contested.

  • It is claimed by Beijing, but it's never been part of the People's Republic of China.

  • Instead, over the last 20 years, Taiwan has evolved into a thriving democracy.

  • In 2016, people here chose their first female president, Tsai Ing-wen.

  • She rejects China's claims to Taiwan and has moved the island further towards Japan and the United States.

  • When I sat down with President Tsai at her home in Taipei, I began on that delicate topic, the threat from China, and whether it's increased under the leadership of Xi Jinping.

  • Do you fear Xi Jinping? Do you think the world, the democratic world, should fear Xi Jinping and his ambitions?

  • I think Xi Jinping now dislikes the fact that he may have a plan of some sort.

  • But I don't think that is a definitive plan, because the world is changing.

  • The situation in China is changing.

  • But the world is very different now, especially after the Ukrainian war, because the democracy seems to be able to get together to form a meaningful deterrence whenever there is an invasion contemplated.

  • So if we deal with the matter very carefully, there's still a great possibility for us to maintain peace as we all need.

  • Tsai's predecessor, President Ma Ying-jeou, had tried to negotiate with China, even holding a meeting with President Xi Jinping in Singapore.

  • Tsai's strategy has been completely different.

  • Instead of trying to conciliate China, she's built up Taiwan's own defences, nearly doubling spending, buying new fighter jets and developing Taiwan's first indigenous submarines.

  • Today the Lion Dance is to celebrate the opening of a new special forces training base on the outskirts of Taipei, another tangible example of where this new military spending is going.

  • So I guess for President Tsai this is a sort of demonstration of what she's been trying to achieve in defence policy over the last eight years, because part of her big thing is that Taiwan doesn't spend enough on defence.

  • When she came in it was about 2% of GDP.

  • She's managed to push that up to about 2.5% of GDP.

  • A lot of people say Taiwan needs to be spending north of 3% of its GDP to have an effective military, given the huge threat that it faces from China.

  • One of the things you've done very differently from your predecessor, he engaged in dialogue with China, he was trying to get Taiwan into basically an economic partnership with China.

  • You, when you came to power, decided on a very different course, it strikes me.

  • One of, firstly, building up Taiwan's own military strength.

  • I would say that the military capability of ours is much strengthened with the investments that we have put in in the last eight years, and also with the assistance of our friends, primarily from the United States.

  • So the investment that we have put into the military capacity building is unprecedented.

  • Another major reform she's pushed through is a return to one year of compulsory military service.

  • She concedes it's not won her many supporters among young voters.

  • I was actually able to convince the public here that extension of the military service is something that we need to do, and I get the support of the people here.

  • And also the young people, despite they have some complaint, but it's not about their love for the country.

  • President Tsai's political opponents call her military strategy naive, even dangerous.

  • They point to the vastly superior military forces China now has at its disposal, and they say trying to defeat these with Taiwan's much smaller forces is a fool's errand.

  • China's military is vast, its military modernization is extraordinary, and that in the end, this is what your critics would say, is Taiwan cannot hope by itself to deter China militarily.

  • Of course that makes some sense, but the cost of taking over Taiwan is going to be enormous, and Chinese leadership have to make a good calculation as to whether they are prepared to pay the cost.

  • But what we need to do is to increase the cost of an invasion.

  • Strengthening our military capability is one, and working with our friends in the region to form a collective deterrence is another.

  • I suppose, again, just playing devil's advocate here, your critics would say, well, that's all very well, but Taiwan has very few formal diplomatic allies.

  • It doesn't have any formal military alliances.

  • And that during the last eight years, particularly the last four years, the situation around Taiwan has actually become objectively more threatening.

  • Of course, we cannot exclude any possibility at the moment, including a possible military conflict and invasion from China.

  • But the thing is, with the collective efforts of the parties concerned in the region,

  • China actually feels the pressure, because it's not only military, it's a concern.

  • They have to be aware of the fact that a war may cost their economic development, and the economic consequences is such that it may probably delay the development of China for years, even for decades.

  • So if you are a leader of China, what is more important, taking over Taiwan or your continuing growth economically and socially?

  • Absolutely crucial to Tsai's strategy of deterring China is support from America.

  • For decades, the United States has kept China guessing as to whether they would or would not defend Taiwan if Beijing attacked.

  • But following the Russian invasion of Ukraine,

  • President Joe Biden has broken with that tradition, saying repeatedly he would send US troops to defend Taiwan.

  • Are you willing to get involved militarily to defend Taiwan if it comes to that?

  • Yes.

  • You are?

  • That's a commitment we made.

  • President Biden has been extremely supportive of Taiwan.

  • When asked about whether he would intervene if Taiwan were attacked, he has repeatedly said yes.

  • His critics have said that that is moving America too far away from this idea of strategic ambiguity, and that actually that makes the situation for Taiwan more dangerous.

  • I think the ambiguity is still there.

  • I think the US administration has been very careful in delivering the messages they want to deliver to the public.

  • So as far as I'm concerned, the way I read it is that the ambiguity is still there.

  • How important is victory on the battlefield for Ukraine and continued Western support for Ukraine in terms of how it affects Taiwan?

  • Many people suggest that Taiwan is a much more important case than Ukraine.

  • And there are arguments that perhaps the US should shift their support and resources from Ukraine to Taiwan.

  • We say no, you have to support Ukraine until the very end.

  • President Tsai is a famous dog and cat lover.

  • She takes me to meet her four dogs and two cats.

  • She is a retired rescue dog. She is now 12 years old.

  • The president is also something of an anglophile, having spent the early 1980s studying for a PhD in law at the London School of Economics, just when Britain had elected its first female prime minister, Margaret Thatcher.

  • I looked at the dates. In the UK you did your PhD in 1984.

  • It was the Thatcher era.

  • I wonder, did you register that when you were in the UK, that this was Britain's first female prime minister, even if you didn't like her?

  • She is a very determined lady. I have a lot of admiration for her, despite the fact that I may not be in agreement with all her policies.

  • But as a leader, she is a tough one.

  • One thing that comes across very clearly from spending time with President Tsai is that in spite of it looking very much like China, with a similar language, customs and religious beliefs, she sees Taiwan as a different, separate place with its own unique history.

  • It was first colonised by the Dutch, the Spanish, and later the Japanese and Chinese.

  • So it's all left a legacy here that makes it very different.

  • Yes. So we have a very diverse culture here.

  • This is still a very patriarchal society.

  • You, I know, have appointed many women to high positions in government.

  • You appointed the first transgender cabinet minister in Taiwan's history, maybe in Asia's history, I'm not sure.

  • Do you think there's an enduring legacy there that will last?

  • Or is there a danger Taiwan could revert to what I might call the boys' club once you're gone?

  • I have a lot of objection about that boys' club that you use.

  • People thought it was some sort of unusual happening in Taiwan.

  • But I want to say that the Taiwan society and democracy nowadays are mature enough to produce and accept a woman president.

  • And that is a tremendous achievement of the Taiwan society.

  • In 2019, despite resistance from conservative religious and family groups, her government pushed through legislation making Taiwan the first place in Asia to legalise same-sex marriage.

  • You were well ahead of any other country in Asia in pushing through that legislation.

  • Why was that such an important priority for you?

  • Because that's the hope of the younger generation, because that is a way to express ourselves as a more advanced country in terms of the progressive values.

  • And also we have very active advocates for the same-sex marriage here.

  • And it's a test to the society here to see to what extent they can move forward with their values.

  • It was a very difficult journey.

  • I am actually rather proud that we managed to overcome our differences and get together and produce a package that we can all live with.

  • And eventually we are all proud of it.

  • In a few days from now, President Tsai will hand over to her successor,

  • Taiwan's current Vice President William Lai.

  • He has promised to continue her legacy of protecting Taiwan's status quo.

  • Most people here in Taiwan, when you look at surveys and you ask them, they say we want to maintain the status quo.

  • No unification, no independence, status quo.

  • What does the status quo mean for you?

  • I think all the people agree on this thing that we are on our own.

  • We make our own decision.

  • We have a political system to govern the place.

  • And we have constitution.

  • We have laws regulating the society as a whole.

  • And we have our military.

  • So we have all the elements of a state.

  • And it's just that we don't have enough number of diplomatic recognitions.

  • China, of course, will say that we're part of them.

  • So it's for the people to interpret what Taiwan represents at this moment in time.

  • But the most important thing is that we are on our own.

  • And we are a democracy.

  • And we enjoy freedom and democracy and progressive values.

  • And we are a group of people that are very proud of ourselves.

This is Taipei, capital of Taiwan, an island democracy of 23 million people.

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