Placeholder Image

Subtitles section Play video

  • [applause]

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Great. So my short talk today is going to focus on testing to learn.

  • So I'm going to start, as a Wisconsin native, and I'm sorry Tim, I should have given you

  • warning about this, I don't know where you went, I'm a big Packers fan. I'm really looking

  • forward to the beginning of the season in just two weeks against the Cardinals. And

  • this year I have a new strategy for Coach McCarthy. Instead of playing all of your top

  • players in every game, instead I recommend that you bench them and play your second string.

  • See, I did a little bit of analysis, and I see that when you play the top players, you

  • actually have a lower winning percentage than when your second-string players have more

  • playing time.

  • Not so fast, right?

  • In fact, it's the case thatit could also be that you're only putting in your second-string

  • players when you're far ahead in the game, so the more playing time that your second-string

  • players have, the more likely you are to win, but it's not because the second-string players

  • are actually creating the winning for the team in the end.

  • And so one way it could actually take a look at this would be to test actually putting

  • in the second-string players earlier in the game, and seeing if the Packers are more likely

  • to win if we had the guy that you're probably don't even know his name at the bottom, versus

  • Aaron Rogers who is actually playing in the game.

  • So, put more simply, it's not that correlation establishes causation, rather that experimentation

  • enables you to establish causation.

  • So Clara and the Heron Foundation have asked us to consider what is a good deal, and how

  • do we identify good deals? And that's defined as understanding in social and financial sectors,

  • how we can find different enterprises that create social and financial performance and

  • impact together. So identifying a good deal is pretensed upon the ability to actually

  • understand the impact of any given program, intervention or initiative.

  • And the gold standard of doing that is experimentation. The whole methodology is centuries old, the

  • scientific method, and it's been applied selectively and successfully in the social sector over

  • many years. However, the potential is much greater. Why? And what can we do about it?

  • I'm going to leave the topic of data infrastructure to other people who have far more experience

  • to talk about that, and instead focus on using K-12 education as an example of a social enterprise,

  • understanding the key and fundamental challenges that I hear often, against experimentation

  • in the education space. And then I'll share some of the ways, through examples and suggestions,

  • that we have actually overcome those challenges, using examples from the private sector.

  • So, a little bit of background about myself first. I'm with Applied Predictive Technologies,

  • as Hope was explaining, and we're the largest software cloud-based predictive analytics

  • firm in the world. We work with a variety of consumer-facing firms across industries,

  • including hospitality, telecoms, banking, CPG, including firms such as the ones you

  • see here , and we help them answer questions about the incremental impact of their programs,

  • which surround issues such as pricing and promotions, marketing effectiveness, brand

  • management, capital investment, remodels, among many others.

  • In addition to my client-facing work, I also head our social sector practice, where we

  • primarily partner with school districts and other educational institutions, to similarly

  • apply the experimental method, to understand the incremental impact of their programs.

  • As some additional background, all my academic background is in experimental economics, specifically

  • focused on the development space, and all my prior professional experience is in the

  • nonprofit and public sector spaces. I'm really excited because I've seen that the tools that

  • I've learned in the private sector that are much accelerated beyond what I've seen in

  • the social sector can actually be applied successfully in the social sector. And I hope

  • to share some of those meaningful examples with you.

  • So the first place that I'll start is actually with an example to help more explain the experimental

  • methodology. So this is the good deal: a different sort of good deal, a good sandwich deal. So

  • in 2004, there was a franchiser for Subway in Miami, who saw that sales were declining

  • on the weekends, so he wanted to offer a very simple and easy-to-understand promotion. So

  • he offered any sandwich for $5.

  • The $5 footlong! And on average that was $2 cheaper than your average footlong sandwich.

  • He saw wildly successful sales, so other franchisers in the area also opted to try the promotion,

  • and they also saw similar results.

  • Before long, franchisers across the country were clamoring for the corporate headquarters

  • to actually introduce the promotion nationally and put some big marketing support across

  • it. However, there was still a lot of skepticism within national.

  • So you can imagine the types of confounding events that could be creating the positive

  • sales and profit results that those franchisers saw in Miami. One possibility is that Miami

  • overall was just seeing an upward trend in the market, so people were more interested

  • in Subway, for whatever reason, what was going effectively in that area. Another thing that

  • the executives pointed out was that other areas of the country were also seeing positive

  • change, so sales were up in Denver, or in Pittsburgh, and they had no $5 footlong, so

  • how do we know that the $5 footlong was actually the idea that was creating the positive growth?

  • So at that time they actually partnered with APT to test the idea. In order to get rid

  • of all of the noise that's going on in the system, we selected a set of test franchisers

  • across the country to actually introduce the $5 footlong, and compared their performance

  • before the promotion was offered, and during the promotion was offered, on sales and margin,

  • to see how the $5 footlong actually affected those particular restaurants. And then, given

  • the results of that, in 2008 it was actually launched nationally.

  • So how does this all relate to K-12 education? In a similar fashion, there are huge decisions,

  • and great decisions, very expensive ones that are made every day across our schools. And

  • they happen on many different levels of government, also in combination with foundations and tech

  • startups and other entrepreneurs.

  • Also, the challenges are great that these interventions are trying to solve. You don't

  • need me to tell you about what the challenges are in education today in the country. The

  • question though, is how do we understand what works? If there are a whole slew of new software

  • platforms for teaching math more effectively to second graders, how do we know which one

  • is the one that we should actually get our teachers to learn, take them out of the schools

  • for a day to have an education session, and then bring them back to the classroom and

  • take time away from what the teachers would normally be doing with the students, to instead

  • be learning math on this new software program? How do we know which ones are more effective,

  • and which ones are actually driving the results that we're looking for?

  • The answer in the education space is the same as it is in the private sector. We need to

  • select a group of students or schools and call them "test". Introduce the intervention

  • into that special selected set, and then compare them to a group of control students or schools

  • so we can measure the effect of the intervention, above and beyond the other factors that are

  • actually separating and aggregating student performance.

  • So if this is such a great idea, as the economist in me asks, why aren't all school districts

  • doing this?

  • There are four fundamental challenges I hear in conversations with school districts that

  • I would like to share with you, in order to show what are those challenges to experimentation,

  • and then also suggest some ways that we have actually overcome them, through the examples

  • of what we've done in the education space.

  • So the first fundamental challenge that I hear is one about equity. We were actually

  • talking about that this morning. "Experimentation is unethical and is unfair", and this is a

  • quote. "How can you justify offering an intervention to only some students, when you know it could

  • help the students that are held out as control?"

  • And I think this is true in a lot of different areas when you're thinking about using experimentation

  • to measure social impact.

  • So the reality is that there are always a lot of different effects that are creating

  • different behavior, and impact, but be it for students, schools, or for stores. If you

  • think about a store for example, what's impacting the traffic that's coming into the store is

  • a function of some uncontrolled factors, such as the local economy, or maybe there's a store

  • down the floor in the mall that has a really successful national promotion going on, so

  • you have more traffic coming in, or maybe it's something like weather.

  • And it's also some controlled factors, like how strong the store manager is, or what types

  • of new products that store has introduced.

  • The same thing when it comes to schools. It could be the fact that there's a really effective

  • administrator or principal. It could also be that a school was selected by the superintendent

  • to receive a special grant, and there are only six grade schools in the entire district

  • who received that grant. And it's not that there's some reason that the other schools

  • in the district didn't receive it, or there could be some that are on the margin, but

  • some students are receiving additional resources just on the basis of limited resources that

  • exist, and no matter whatever sector that you're in.

  • So the way to approach this, instead of saying that it isn't fair, is to actually use that

  • variability and let it work for you, and use it as a way to actually do natural experiment

  • analysis. So an example is we partnered with a major school district, and we were taking

  • a look at turnaround schools. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with the program

  • or the intervention, but basically the district has identified schools that are severely underperforming,

  • and they identify that the principal and about half the staff have to be turned around, and

  • then they invest additional resources within the school to bring the standardized test

  • scores up to proficiency within three years.

  • So no student chooses to attend a failing school, right? No one wants to attend a school

  • that has to be turned around the year after they enter the school, but yet the experience

  • of that student in that school that's turned around gives us an opportunity to compare

  • them to other students who are not in schools that are turned around. And that analysis

  • showed what are the different characteristics that lead to more successful turnarounds.

  • So that's just one example of how natural experiment analysis is actually taking areas

  • of inequityand inequity is inevitableand using it to still learn from it in very valuable

  • ways.

  • The second fundamental challenge is experimental efficacy. So to quote: "I'm concerned about

  • measuring the impact of a new technology in classrooms, because I don't have confidence

  • that all teachers will employ it correctly, or consistently. In this case the analysis

  • isn't measuring anything useful."

  • So this is one that I hear most often from interventionists who are actually coming from

  • outside of the education space, such as technology entrepreneurs. The reality is that you want

  • experimentation, you want any impact analysis, to measure not just how something should perform

  • in a clinical and perfect setting, but also how it performs in combination with the implementation

  • of that idea.

  • Let's stick with technology. If you have a new software program like the one I was talking

  • about earlier, teaching math to second-graders, if you have that particular software program,

  • you could, the coders who created it could go into schools, and work directly with the

  • students on using it, and say that it was wildly successful at increasing the scores

  • or math-readiness of students. However, a better test of how that program would actually

  • perform if launched across the district would be putting it in the hands of teachers, and

  • then measuring how those teachers both use the idea, and also implemented it consistently

  • in the classroom. So, the efficacy of how an idea is implemented is just as important

  • as the idea itself.

  • You can also measure it explicitly, when that's possible, so one example is we were taking

  • a look at the impact of a tutoring program on reading-readiness for smaller students,

  • and on average there was no impact they were able to measure. But then we could also look

  • at the number of hours of after-school tutoring that students experienced, and we saw that

  • as the number of hours increased, as expected, there was more of an impact of the program.

  • So in cases where there is a range of efficacy, you can actually measure that in order to

  • include that in the analysis that you're doing, and only further the idea of what's the specific

  • incremental impact of every hour of tutoring that was available to these students.

  • The third one is data, which is good given this session. "We don't have enough of the

  • right data. Our data is not very high quality, and it's very infrequent. Our schools report

  • standardized test scores only once every year per student and at the end of the school year."

  • So, this is absolutely right. The data that's available in the education space pales in

  • comparison to what we work with in the private sector. To illustrate this very concretely,

  • the particular school district I was talking about, if you take all the data we have for

  • them, so that's ten years, it's hundreds of schools, and tens of thousands of students,

  • if you take that data, it is less than the data of one store for one year in the same

  • city. Not even six months. It doesn't compare.

  • While that's true, we shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. There's actually

  • incredible work and analysis and experimentation that can be done just using the data that's

  • available today. So an example of this is, for about three years now we've been partnering

  • with a very innovative and leading charter school, and helping them take a look at the

  • incremental impact in academic performance of students who are entering their school.

  • And the nice thing with this particular charter school is that it's a very natural experiment

  • because some students are able to enter the charter school and others are naturally lotteried

  • out of the charter school. So using that natural variation, we're able to set up testing control,

  • under matching students between test and control, based on academic characteristics, and their

  • middle school academic performance, as well as other student characteristics like free

  • and reduced lunch, and other areas that we found to be predictive of their performance

  • in high school.

  • So doing this analysis we were able to come to some very specific, actionable insights,

  • even though all we had available for every student was their standardized test score

  • at the end of every year for the specific subjects that were tested on the state exam.

  • Let me give you a few examples of the value-adds.

  • First of all, being able to measure the incremental impact on standardized test scores for these

  • students, and relating that to college-readiness, as well as relating it to proficiency in the

  • district, was enough for that school to be able to make a pitch to other foundations,

  • donors and the school board, to get additional investment into the school and to build additional

  • campuses, to have more seats for students in the area. Because they could show what

  • they were doing above and beyond the other schools that were also highly acclaimed in

  • their area were doing.

  • Another thing was taking a look at the differences across subjects, between math, science, reading

  • and writing, and also how that varied by different ethnicities and different genders. And they

  • found that a few of their areas, they were adopting a curriculum that was more predisposed

  • to some students learning better than others, which helped them re-shape and make sure that

  • they were pulling along all of the students, to get them to the academic standards that

  • they expected within their school.

  • Another of those actionable insights was actually looking at the impact on freshmen versus sophomores

  • and upperclassmen. They saw that the incremental impact grew over time, which helped them consider

  • opening up a middle school and a grade school, so that the overall culture of the school

  • could be a part of students' lives even earlier than high school.

  • And finally a really important issue to them was making sure that all students were impacted

  • by the school, and it wasn't just that the students who were poorest performing were

  • left behind, or the students who were best performing were brought down to the mean.

  • In fact, we saw that students across all different academic performance levels saw significant

  • achievement gains.

  • So again, not a lot of data, and the data is growing, but even the data we have can

  • be really meaningful when we look at the impact that it has on helping excellent education

  • institutions get better, and identifying interventions that are not doing what we would hope that

  • they do.

  • And the final one, are resource constraints. "Internally we have limited staff dedicated

  • to program evaluation, and they also play an operational role. Also, we can't afford

  • to pay think tanks or consulting firms to conduct large-scale impact evaluations."

  • I absolutely hear this, and resource constraints are a really important thing. I think there

  • are two areas to talk about. The first one quickly is that, just as in the private sector,

  • there are very specific knowledge and information you have to have, in order to conduct any

  • of these types of financial modeling, or econometric techniques that we've been talking about,

  • using software actually makes it accessible to a much broader population. And that's the

  • business model that we've used in the private sector, and have been using with education

  • institutions that we partner with as well.

  • The second area is that experimentation is actually a resource-saving type of analysis.

  • It's not enough just to say that there are so many worse resources that we have; we're

  • taking some from somewhere, and that's overall a negative, but if we're identifying places

  • where you could actually be saving time, or could be using money better, that's overall

  • resource-saving. And so that's what our private sector clients have testified to, and also

  • in the example of the charter school and the turnaround schools, we found similar opportunities.

  • In conclusion, it's a really exciting time right now, because we have more data, we have

  • more interest and more ability than ever before to actually leverage the most powerful tool

  • that we have to understand the incremental impact of any program. If we want to identify

  • a good deal, we need to understand what works, and experimentation is the best way for us

  • to do that.

  • Now, all of our social sector work, and our clients, have the capability to make this

  • an ongoing idea rather than just a one-off issue. We want to be able to learn, and to

  • test to learn, in order to actually make this a part of what we're all able to do to identify

  • good deals.

  • Thank you.

  • [applause]

  • >> Hope Neighbor: Sarah, thank you very much. I have a question to start off the discussion.

  • This approach has a clear benefit in terms of being able to understand how we can revise

  • the way in which we do education in order to achieve better outcomes. It seems also

  • really heady and potentially difficult for a wide range of stakeholders to understand.

  • What is, as this approach has been implemented by different school districts, what are the

  • greatest challenges that you've seen in implementation, and how would you suggest districts approach

  • things differently where they'd implement your approach?

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: When I think about even having an opportunity or space within a district

  • to actually use it, the challenges are really the four fundamental ones I went over. But

  • what it comes down to even more concretely is incentives, and aligning incentives, which

  • I know is a topic we've already talked about. In a school district you need to have someone

  • who is a leader and comes to the front and wants to understand the impact of particular

  • programs. Because it's not expected within that community to know necessarily if a particular

  • program that a principal is doing engaging parents is successful or more successful than

  • another, because if the principal is happy and the parents are happy, who am I to say

  • that it's not working? I should just leave well enough alone.

  • So there are different incentives that come together and are at play, and if there's not

  • a leader within the group who steps forward and says, this is really important to understand

  • how we're spending money, this is important to understand which of the various programs

  • are doing the most in terms of our standardized test scores, then it's not going to happen.

  • It's not enough just to have someone at a lower level, or a principal, who's actually

  • able to take it on, because it is so controversial within the school district.

  • >> Catherine Havasi: I think another question, when you listed the different challenges that

  • you run into, I think another one is actually longitudinal studies. A lot of different intervention

  • programs in education have a short term, maybe a school year or a couple-week bump, and in

  • the long term sometimes it flattens out or even does damage. So a lot of the things that

  • you've talked about here are testing in a one-school-year sort of range. Have you guys

  • done any work looking at longitudinal work? Also, how can we look at different features

  • in the short-term work to see if we can try to predict longitudinal impact?

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Sure. I think there are two ways to talk about that. One of them is

  • that when you look in the past, so you're doing natural experiment analysis or back-tests,

  • there actually is still an incredible amount of data you can be using. It's still based

  • on just looking at for example K-12 education, and it's not looking at how students did in

  • college, or how they did after college with getting jobs, I think that's the true longitudinal

  • that you're talking about, but at least we have as much as we can within the sphere of

  • the K-12 education to mobilize for types of analysis like that.

  • When you talk about taking it out into further longitudinal work, we get into the issue of

  • identifiers, and having some unique way of tracking a student from what they were in

  • Chicago Public Schools, to what they were when they went to Columbia College, etc. So

  • finding that level of information is something I've only really seen successfully done when

  • there's a whole other study, usually from an academic perspective, or from a think tank,

  • that tries to recreate all of the data over time. So there aren't—it does not exist

  • in databases today that would enable you to do analysis like that.

  • >> Catherine Havasi: You can also do middle school and high school sort of thing.

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Yeah, so anything within the same sphere, we've looked at.

  • The other thing I would say is part of why we're so interested in longer studies is because

  • we don't have as much information or readily available data to actually make changes more

  • quickly or to learn from it more quickly. So I think what's exciting is that that's

  • actually changing today, as there's more technological innovation that's coming into classrooms.

  • One firm that comes to mind is Amplify, so if you have a way for teachers at the end

  • of every single lesson to monitor how well students are actually receiving that information,

  • then instead of having one data point at the end of every year, you have a data point for

  • every single lesson, for every single day, for every student, and then you can quickly

  • make changes and actually learn from it in a more microcosm of what would work better

  • for teaching students a given lesson, or what types of maybe arrangements of the classroom

  • matter, or what types of class start times or end times or what you should be doing after

  • school, so all of those different issues could actually be addressed if you also have lower-level

  • data.

  • >> Tim Ferguson: So in the case of the charter school could use support. You talked about

  • the charter school itself, but in terms of the intervention, are there any other service

  • providers, or nonprofit for example?

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Have we worked with nonprofits, is your question?

  • >> Tim Ferguson: Vis-à-vis, in that particular instance, where you've seen the improvement,

  • and you're using them as thewith the control group outside, are there other interventions

  • that are taking place that are not, what I think of as the more obvious, which are around

  • the technology in the classroom and that sort of thing. For example, there are a number

  • of programs that are being run now in this country where there are "teacher assistants",

  • I'm not talking about TFA, I'm talking about another particular program, where they can

  • demonstrate very very clearly that attendance is up, the length of the day has increased,

  • and that the scores are improving as well. So it's not just the technology piece and

  • it's a harder datawell, you can collect the data, and whether it's cause and effect

  • or not time will show, but is that in that charter school case, is that happening there

  • as well?

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Yes. I would call it a cocktail of different solutions that makes

  • the school experience different for students in that school, or that network is what it

  • isthan it is for another school, and soexcept in cases where there's some discontinuity

  • in time of the application of those different programs, it's not possible to disentangle

  • one element from another. So what I'm saying by that is that the charter school has a whole

  • ethos that they all get together at the beginning of the day, and they talk about their values,

  • and then they also have different classroom setups, and so how you disentangle one from

  • another with this type of analysis isn't possible. But getting to the other sorts of information

  • you could start looking at: if a student did or did not actually attend the early morning

  • exercises does that have an impact? But yeah, there are a lot of different effects that

  • are a part of what that charter school represents.

  • >> Mayur Patel: Some of the randomized control trial and quasi-experimental design has been

  • around for a while. I'd be curious to know what you think as the data analytic space

  • gets more sophisticated and crosses over more, where is it going to disrupt those methodologies

  • the most. Is it going to be on the segmentation, on the control groups, on the collection site...

  • what do you see happening in that area?

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Because you're asking how it changes as it develops, I think I could

  • speak a little bit to what I've seen in the private sector, because that's actually a

  • place where it is very developed. So, what differentiates experimental design and how

  • it really disrupts some of the other types of analysis that we see often in our clients?

  • There are a few different ways.

  • One of them is how you're measuring the counter-factual, or what's the baseline. So, how you determine

  • what the control should be, and how you measure how good the control is at actually predicting

  • the test, the performance of the test, is a very challenging and sophisticated question

  • and there are lots of exciting ways to do that really well. As you get more data and

  • as you get better data, you can even measure how much better you can get at that. So I

  • think the industry is constantly learning how to do that better.

  • I think you're right that segmentation is another important piece. So the way that we

  • think about the learnings that actually come from any test are first of all, what did it

  • do? So what did the program drive on an average level? Second of all, are there different

  • elements of the program that work better than others? So, is it that high hours versus low

  • hours is better, or a 50 cent price increase versus a 40 cent versus a 30 cent, and then

  • third question is about segmentation, which I think is where a lot of the action actually

  • is.

  • So instead of just saying on average it's effective, you're saying, it's more effective

  • with this type of a student than it is with this type of a student, or it's more effective

  • with a school that's in this neighborhood than it is with a school that's in that neighborhood.

  • So when you're able to get to that level of segmentation, it's something that's really

  • hard to do without a sophisticated data infrastructure, because it's that much more data you have

  • to bring into your model after you've already gotten to the first question, which is really

  • what people asked you for in the first place.

  • So when you have it all collected together and you're able to get to the segmentations

  • really quickly, that's when you can be very fine-tuned about how you're taking that intervention,

  • or you're using the resources, and applying it in a way that you'll see the greatest increase

  • for whatever you're actually using it for.

  • >> Annie Donovan: I wanted to ask a question because I—I think Fozzie Bear is really

  • cool!

  • [laughter]

  • >> Bill Wilkie: I've been trying to get this guy to clean my shoes all morning!

  • [laughter]

  • >> Annie Donovan: I know, it's like, so cool!

  • So what do you see happening in theyou're doing this experimentation inside a government

  • framework. Howand education, maybe it's easier, maybe because charters schools have

  • the network that you're working in, it's really critical for them to be able to show value

  • add and all that. But how do you see adaptation happening more broadly in government forjust

  • coming off of the experience of working inside the federal government for a year in the Office

  • of Management and Budgets being obsessed with, how do we do more of this? But it's really

  • hard to get it off the dime.

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Yeah. It's a challenging question. I feel like I am equipped to speak

  • to education, and not as equipped to speak to how it would impact looking at different

  • programs in prisons for example that help to reduce recidivism. I would say that there's

  • a lot of exciting work that has been done in that space as well that uses experimental

  • design.

  • The challenge is, in order to use the experimental design, you actually have to have a sphere

  • that you can separate from the other things that are going on, and even within that sphere,

  • it's going to be spurious and noisy and there's a lot of things that are going on, but it

  • means that using experimental design isn't necessarily always possible for a program

  • that has to be the same across everyone on a national level. And it's worked in places

  • where you can control more fully the entire experience that someone has within your sphere,

  • which is why, like, experimentation in prisons or experimentation in schools is more possible

  • than experimentation on the tax structure.

  • Your question really gets to what are the underlying requirements of actually using

  • this methodology. If we say that it's a really good methodology to use, what do we need to

  • have existent in order to push it there? I also think it's still incentives as well,

  • that all want to speak to having the data and analysis available for anyone to be using,

  • and so, that's a challenge for the government if they're actually validating their different

  • programs, to have it be known that maybe some of the things that they're doing aren't as

  • effective as some other areas.

  • >> Annie Donovan: Just in terms of market demand for your services, do you see any pickup

  • in the government sector, or...?

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: We haven't really been focusing on there, for the reasons I'm talking

  • about.

  • >> Richard Ling: Are you actually, I've been reading articles about a digital revolution

  • happening in education

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Sorry, the what?

  • >> Richard Ling: I've been reading articles about, there's a lot of excitement around

  • bringing tablets into schools and things like that right?

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Yes.

  • >> Richard Ling: Are you familiar with some of those projects? That's where I can see

  • you can get real-time data on tremendous amounts of information, right?

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Exactly.

  • >> Richard Ling: What students spend more time on, and translating to more effective

  • scores, etc.

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: Yeah. And both there's a lot of data there, and there's a lot of

  • interest in making sure those tech companies can prove their value to districts, because

  • it takes so much to actually get into districts, so the more data they have to prove what they're

  • doing and why other districts should bring them in, it's a win-win when it comes to tech

  • education.

  • >> Richard Ling: But are the districts open to bringing these things in?

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: There are different groups of innovative schools, so superintendents

  • choose to be a part of consortiums or conferences that really bring these folks together, and

  • tech companies will pitch to those different groups of districts. And some districts are

  • more respected for being open to different types of ideas. Like New York famously has

  • a lot of different programs that they're trying. Another one that's interesting is the Recovery

  • school district in Louisiana, which was created after Hurricane Katrina, that they have, because

  • they're so interested in finding out what works, and there are so many challenges across

  • their schools, it's an opportunity to try a lot of different things , and they're open

  • to things not working in a way that superintendents in other districts aren't as open to. So when

  • it comes to smaller programs, like just introducing a tablet, it's really for the tech company

  • to prove to the district that they should spend money on that new idea.

  • >> Hope Neighbor: Great. We have timePaul had a question and then we have time for one

  • more after that.

  • >> Paul Light: I just had a quick observation that in looking at nonprofits and government,

  • the big barrier is politics. There's only one person who mentioned it, and David kind

  • of got to it by saying that Democrats and Republicans have different utility functions.

  • [laughter]

  • But, Democrats and Republicans also have different data, so it used to be, Moynihan once said,

  • everybody's entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own data, but that is no

  • longer the case. So I think that's something for us to be thinking about, as the conversation

  • rolls on, is the ideologies, the politics, of getting good information that's valid,

  • empirically grounded, that can be used and relied upon. And what might be the flags that

  • would identify a bad piece of data?

  • Now, Elizabeth, I think, talked about "creepy", which was the first time I heard someone talk

  • about a negative externality, and I do think creepy is a negative externality of some of

  • this, right? You know? So, I think there's a lot going on underneath here, as we're talking

  • about how wonderful this is, that we ought to grapple with. Politics is here, and that's

  • why you [to Annie Donovan] had a tough time at OMB, you know? Why they're hammering hammering

  • hammering, you knowthere's a lot of politics here.

  • >> David Rabjohns: Yeah, I just had a piece of small data, which is on the tablet issue,

  • my sixteen-year-old told me yesterday that all the kids in the school have tablets, all

  • they do is play games on them, and don't do any work. So I don't know if that's relevant,

  • but

  • [laughter]

  • From the sixteen-year-old in the school.

  • >> Sarah Zampardo: And that's experimental efficacy for you!

  • [laughter]

  • >> Richard Ling: Are people playing more games doing better in school? Are people playing

  • less?

  • >> David Rabjohns: Are they getting better at games?

  • >> Hope Neighbor: I think that's actually a great note on which to wrap up the conversation.

  • Sarah, thank you very very much. Thanks to all of our panelists.

  • [applause]

[applause]

Subtitles and vocabulary

Click the word to look it up Click the word to find further inforamtion about it