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  • I've been covering this trade war

  • for almost three years now,

  • and oftentimes it looks very chaotic.

  • The China trade deal is dependent on one thing,

  • do I wanna pick it.

  • If we don't make a deal with China

  • I'll just raise the tariffs even higher.

  • Thank you very much.

  • And it's really hard to think back to the beginning of it,

  • but how it really started actually

  • seemed like there was a strategy to it.

  • Over the course of the U.S.-China Trade War,

  • Trump's aggressive policies and unpredictable behavior

  • has managed to bring the Chinese to the negotiating table.

  • We've come to a very substantial phase one deal.

  • China will continue to eat your lunch

  • unless somebody takes a stand,

  • and it just so happens that it was Donald Trump

  • that took the stand.

  • We're close.

  • With the promise of that phase one deal

  • looming on the horizon, can that same aggressive strategy

  • produce meaningful reform in China?

  • I wrote a paper during the Obama Administration

  • saying people are not taking China seriously enough,

  • and the President has to be directly involved

  • for American policy to actually make sense.

  • I think in some ways it's better to wait

  • 'til after the election with China.

  • But, I'm not gonna say that.

  • I just think that.

  • Now the President is directly involved

  • and American policy doesn't make sense.

  • The reality is that the Trump Administration

  • has done this in a much more aggressive way

  • than previous administrations have.

  • It was an asset going into this trade war.

  • It may have been a liability in the end.

  • This is a case study

  • of when negotiating tactics turn from method to madness.

  • We can't continue to allow China to rape our country,

  • and that's what they're doing.

  • It's the greatest theft in the history of the world.

  • President Trump ran a successful campaign

  • of denouncing China's unfair trading practices.

  • They take our money, they take our jobs,

  • and we owe them $1.6 trillion.

  • I think it's important to understand

  • that the President inherited a very difficult situation,

  • one where we probably should have addressed

  • some of these problems with China a lot sooner.

  • But I think the President had great wisdom and courage

  • to step up and realize that we really can

  • start to make progress.

  • And after becoming President

  • his team began devising a strategy

  • on how they could rebalance the relationship with China.

  • And this man, Derek Scissors,

  • was part of those initial conversations.

  • The goal starts with we're gonna

  • focus on intellectual property,

  • which we were trying to decide how do we get the Chinese

  • to reduce their intellectual property coercion and theft.

  • They weren't gonna stop, but how can we reduce it?

  • How can we show we're serious about this issue,

  • change their behavior?

  • And that got pulled into the President saying,

  • "I want high tariffs.

  • "I wanna reduce the trade deficit."

  • Which is a completely different goal.

  • Putting tariffs on all firms doesn't discourage theft

  • and coercion of intellectual property,

  • 'cause it doesn't punish the guilty.

  • It punishes everyone.

  • Tariffs are really the big bazooka in the trade world.

  • You don't like to use them normally,

  • or if you do use them in the trade world,

  • you tend to use them for short-term leverage

  • to try and get someone to the negotiating table.

  • In March 2018 Ambassador Lighthizer,

  • the trade representative, was testifying on Capitol Hill,

  • and he was kind of laying out what he called an algorithm.

  • The purpose of your algorithm is to pick out things

  • to the extent you can that are in that category.

  • Things that are in the category have the maximum effect

  • on China and the minimum effect on U.S. consumers.

  • The initial number that folks

  • at the U.S. Trade Representative's office came up with

  • was $34 billion.

  • And the President looks at it and says,

  • "Well, that's not big enough."

  • And we've seen this a lot in our reporting,

  • covering this trade war,

  • that the President really likes round numbers.

  • A second list of $16 billion

  • of Chinese goods is published,

  • raising the total initial tariffs to $50 billion.

  • And while looking back, this may seem haphazard,

  • it is part of President Trump's strategy.

  • And this is just the beginning.

  • I wanna tell you that.

  • This is just the beginning.

  • Donald Trump has always had two things he's

  • tried to accomplish through these trade wars.

  • One is selling it domestically to his base.

  • He wants to be seen to be punching China in the nose.

  • And the second thing is his old art of the deal approach,

  • and that is he likes to destabilize people

  • across a negotiating table.

  • This administration has kind of prided itself

  • on being unpredictable.

  • Kinda the notion that unpredictability

  • is a real strength in a negotiation

  • because if they don't know what they're gonna do,

  • somehow they're gonna give you more.

  • But not everyone agrees with that sentiment,

  • at least in regards to the larger intent

  • of getting a deal done with China.

  • To me they haven't been unpredictable at all.

  • I think the President has been saying

  • for two and a half years that he wants

  • to have a deal with China if he can get a deal

  • that is good and that is in U.S. interests.

  • And he's gotten a deal with Korea,

  • and he's gotten a deal with Mexico,

  • and he's gotten a deal with Canada,

  • and he's gotten a deal with Japan.

  • And we're having these negotiations with China.

  • Early on the maximum pressure strategy

  • only resulted in the Chinese

  • responding with tariffs of their own,

  • going after areas that could hurt Trump's political base,

  • imposing tariffs on the auto industry,

  • pork, and especially soy beans.

  • Once the Chinese stopped buying soy beans

  • the impact on the markets was pretty stark.

  • Immediately the price collapsed

  • and farmers started getting hit.

  • So when you engage in this tit-for-tat tariff war

  • the question is really who can

  • live with the pain for longer.

  • And obviously that is a question of political will,

  • and that's always gonna be the case.

  • And there's sort of no way around that.

  • Fortunately for us, President Trump

  • has shown that he has that political will.

  • For the rest of 2018 the two countries

  • would raise tariffs back and forth.

  • The U.S. would go from its initial 50 billion in tariffs

  • to 250 billion.

  • And China's total tariffs would now hit

  • 110 billion of U.S. goods.

  • Eventually these tariffs would have their desired effect.

  • In December of 2018 President Trump

  • and Chinese President Xi Jinping

  • would meet face to face in Buenos Aires.

  • Start on meeting we'll be

  • talking about a number of topics.

  • At that dinner in Buenos Aires,

  • the two leaders agree that they won't raise tariffs

  • on each other anymore or at least for 90 days

  • while they try to negotiate a new deal.

  • Over the spring the two sides keep negotiating,

  • but the Trump Administration

  • seems to be moving the goalposts,

  • or at least that's how the Chinese see it.

  • One, they refused to lift tariffs as part of any deal

  • and secondly Trump seems to be constantly increasing

  • the amount of purchases he wants to see from China.

  • At one point he goes from $1.2 trillion over six years

  • to a $2 trillion number and that just seems both impetuous

  • to the Chinese but also economically impossible.

  • By April the two sides

  • create a 150-page document,

  • and there's optimism that a deal is in sight.

  • And the White House was very confident

  • that this tough negotiating strategy from the President

  • has really turned out to get results

  • and fixed the issues that they went into this trade war for.

  • My understanding is that both sides

  • were actually discussing where the leaders would meet

  • to sign the agreement.

  • However, in the final stages of negotiating

  • the Chinese began to walk back

  • some of their larger concessions,

  • most importantly, China didn't wanna commit

  • to making legal changes for the U.S.

  • And I think what happened here

  • is that China thought that Trump wanted a deal at any cost

  • and that he was so out there promising this deal

  • that he wouldn't mind if they

  • took some things off the table.

  • That's the point where I think the President

  • kind of got fed up and the events in the negotiations

  • led to an entirely disproportionate response on his part.

  • In a tweet on May 5th

  • Trump suddenly raised tariffs

  • on the existing $250 billion worth of goods

  • and also threatened that he would tax

  • the remaining $325 billion worth of Chinese imports.

  • That tweet I read on a plane.

  • I was like, okay, I'm going to buy WiFi now,

  • and I worked the entire plane ride over there.

  • Days later Trump again escalated the dispute

  • by placing Chinese telecom giant, Huawei, on a black list.

  • That was the biggest slap in the face for the Chinese yet

  • and relations further deteriorated.

  • We're having a little squabble with China

  • because we've been treated very unfairly

  • for many, many decades.

  • But in another face-to-face meeting,

  • this time in Osaka, Japan,

  • Trump and Xi were able to negotiate

  • another truce on further aggression.

  • So covering this we often have deja vus,

  • and think, well we've seen this movie before.

  • They have a truce, it goes on for a couple months

  • until Trump realizes China, again,

  • didn't live up to its promises.

  • And that's when Trump

  • unleashed another series of tweets.

  • So in early August Trump decides to escalate things again

  • and announces that he is gonna put tariffs

  • on the remaining imports from China.

  • Importantly it's also for the first time

  • really gonna hit consumers.

  • It's gonna hit things like smartphones,

  • toys, kids clothes.

  • And this is the first time that the trade wars

  • are really gonna come home for a lot of Americans.

  • After a year and a half of all this madness

  • Trump's advisors told him if you want to get reelected,

  • you have to stop this now.

  • We need to find an off ramp.

  • And so they came to him for the first time in September

  • and said, "Why don't we pocket some of these wins?

  • "Why don't we get something good for farmers

  • "and do something like a partial deal?"

  • The August tariff threats were split up.

  • And the ones that would hit consumer favorites

  • were given a December 15th deadline,

  • with the hopes that a deal could be struck

  • by the end of the year.

  • A tremendous deal for the farmers.

  • A purchase from 40 to $50 billion worth

  • of agricultural products.

  • It's actually hard as someone

  • who's been following this for several years

  • to really care about the phase one deal.

  • Agriculture is not going to solve the trade imbalance,

  • it's not going to bring back U.S. manufacturing jobs.

  • For this year if you sign phase one,

  • you don't sign phase one, it doesn't matter,

  • you're not gonna get any meaningful economic changes

  • from the Chinese in 2019 or 2020.

  • One of the big questions around this trade war

  • is was it worth it?

  • The real question is are we gonna

  • get future phases in a negotiation?

  • And are you gonna get some meaningful changes in China?

  • And a lot of people in Washington,

  • certainly a lotta long-time China watchers,

  • feel like that's not the case.

  • I think we're finally having serious negotiations

  • with China after many years of frustration,

  • and I think everyone has finally started to realize

  • that we have actual leverage in this situation

  • and that we have the opportunity

  • to improve the type of trade arrangements

  • that we have with China.

  • 20 months and many false dons later,

  • what have we learned about the use

  • of this maximum pressure campaign?

  • And can this strategy of unpredictability

  • really work over the long term?

  • Just so you understand, I've been very mild about it.

  • Very, very mild.

  • There's a long way I can go.

  • I think, number one,

  • this just shows that trade negotiations are tough.

  • And one of the kind of shortcomings of this negotiation

  • has been we've kind of been all over the map.

  • I mean, at some points this negotiation's

  • been all about agriculture.

  • Other points it's been all about

  • the structural issues like IPR.

  • The main problem the president has

  • is he wants us to wrap up too quickly.

  • The President wants this done now.

  • He wants to run on it.

  • He wants to say, I solved this problem.

  • So because of that, he has lost patience

  • with the pace of negotiations.

  • And he's fine with the outcome of very high U.S. tariffs.

  • That's one thing everyone has to understand.

  • The President doesn't think, oh, I'll pressure the Chinese

  • and they'll automatically give in.

  • He thinks, I'll pressure them and they'll give in

  • or I'll get to keep the tariffs

  • and the trade deficit will fall.

  • Both are good for me.

  • We're doing very nicely with China.

  • But I like it the way it is now because

  • we're taking in billions and billions of dollars

  • and we're giving some of that money to farmers and others.

  • Now that President Trump is on the cusp

  • of signing a phase one deal,

  • will his willingness to use tariffs really lead

  • to the fundamental economic changes

  • he is seeking from China?

  • If you wanna be a good negotiator

  • some element of unpredictability is useful,

  • but I think here we've gotten to the point

  • where we're so unpredictable that other countries

  • are kinda throwing up their hands

  • and trying to decide is it even really,

  • is it even worth doing a deal with the United States

  • because we don't even know

  • if the United States is gonna stick to the deal.

  • I mean, I think you have to remember that

  • two or three years ago we were being told

  • that the U.S. had very little leverage

  • in trade negotiations and there really wasn't a lot we

  • could do to get other countries to accommodate our concern.

  • The reality of it is is that countries understand

  • that this is the biggest economy in the world,

  • it's a great market, it's an open market,

  • and I think people are always gonna be interested

  • in making trade with the United States.

  • It's fair to say that tariffs

  • brought the Chinese to the table,

  • but what have we gotten out of it?

  • And this gets back to not so much the tool of tariffs

  • but the strategy.

  • If we don't know our own goals,

  • it's very hard to have a win at the end.

I've been covering this trade war

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