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  • Today we're going to talk about making friends in America.

  • This is something a lot of you guys have asked me about.

  • David, I got an email today

  • from a Rachel's English Academy student named Clarence

  • who was saying he goes to school in the US

  • but all of his friends that he's making

  • are other international students.

  • And he says they're great people, they're wonderful friends,

  • but he wants more opportunity to practice his English

  • and to engage with Americans while he's here.

  • And he was asking for some advice

  • about making friends in America.

  • And it reminded me of the podcast that we made,

  • which I'll play at the end of this video,

  • so you won't have to click anywhere to find it,

  • but I also thought it's worth revisiting.

  • It's a big topic.

  • It's a really big topic, yeah.

  • So I thought we could start a little bit

  • by talking about our best friends, how we've made them,

  • and then also now at this stage in life

  • how it's harder to make friends,

  • I think we're both finding,

  • and we can sort of talk about ways

  • to connect with Americans.

  • So out of your very best friends,

  • you have different sets of people, wouldn't you say?

  • Yeah, I think that that's right.

  • And where did you make your best friends?

  • They come from a couple different areas

  • and stages of life, I guess.

  • From high school and college, there's a couple of people

  • that are even to this day very close friends, actually,

  • my closest friends, I would say.

  • And then I also have some very good friends

  • who I've met through work, so, later in life.

  • And then, just meeting people who are friends of friends,

  • so some kind of connection through a shared friend.

  • And again, that one was later in life.

  • that's a good point.

  • You brought up two potential ways to make friends.

  • First of all, you mentioned school, which I think

  • a lot of us have made a lot of friends in school.

  • The reason is you're seeing the same people over and over

  • every day, that helps build friendships,

  • but you also mentioned work,

  • and I think a lot of people watching this video

  • might be people who live in the United States,

  • work in the United States, but have a hard time

  • taking the co-worker level to a friendship level.

  • What would you say about that?

  • Would you have any advice about how to approach somebody

  • in a more formal situation to turn it into something

  • that has a casual side as well?

  • Yeah, I think it is challenging.

  • I think it's challenging for Americans too.

  • One of the things that I've been thinking about,

  • as we've been preparing, is that it's tempting sometimes

  • to say no to an invitation

  • if you're not feeling the whole way comfortable.

  • Invitations tend to come out of the blue.

  • And a non-native speaker might especially

  • if they're not feeling really confident in their English

  • might especially have a hesitation there.

  • Right, so I think an important thing

  • is to say to yourself right now

  • the next time that I'm approached by somebody at work

  • who says, "Hey, do you want to go to a movie?

  • "Hey, do you want to get a drink after work?

  • "Hey, some of us are gonna go to happy hour on Friday

  • "after work, do you wanna come along?"

  • It might not be somebody that you know very well

  • or again, you might have that instantaneous sort of,

  • "Oh my god, they're all gonna be speaking really quickly,

  • "I'm not gonna feel comfortable."

  • But I think it's really important in those spots

  • to push yourself to say,

  • "Yep, sure, that sounds great, I'd love to."

  • Knowing that at worst, it's gonna be an opportunity

  • to really practice your English with native speakers,

  • and at best, it's gonna be a chance

  • to really connect with people in a way that's beyond work.

  • And if a co-worker has invited you to do something,

  • then I think that's a sign

  • that that's somebody you can feel comfortable with,

  • if you don't understand, saying,

  • "I'm sorry, you're speaking a little too fast.

  • "What did you say?"

  • Or something like that.

  • They've invited you into a more intimate relationship,

  • a less formal relationship, so I think you can feel free

  • to take advantage of that and ask for clarification.

  • Maybe they use an idiom or a phrasal verb you don't know,

  • great opportunity for you to ask.

  • Now, let's flip this around

  • and say no one's asking you at work to do something.

  • What about starting it yourself?

  • I think a great thing that you can look for

  • as you're wanting to connect with more people,

  • whether it's at work or maybe you go to church

  • or you have some sort of religious group

  • that you participate with, if you're looking,

  • any group of people that you're seeing regularly,

  • if you're looking to take it a step further,

  • I think always look for

  • some common interest that you might have.

  • So for example, if at the office you come to realize

  • that your co-worker is really into the Marvel action movies

  • or whatever and you are too, discuss it, talk about it,

  • and then maybe at some point say,

  • "Hey, let's go see the new one", or whatever.

  • Find something that you already have in common

  • and then use that as a way

  • to invite somebody to do something.

  • And also, don't be afraid to ask somebody.

  • It's not unusual in a work environment

  • to see if a co-worker wants to do something outside of work.

  • So, definitely, in America,

  • that's a pretty common thing to happen.

  • So definitely feel free,

  • or even if you're just having a good conversation

  • to just say, "Oh, do you want to meet up after work

  • "for a little bit?

  • "Do you have time?"

  • Or something like that.

  • I think also realizing that somebody has a common interest

  • even at just during that conversation,

  • that means that the person is gonna be really interested

  • in what you have to say.

  • That I think means it's a good time to say to yourself,

  • okay, this person is probably gonna be fine with me saying,

  • "Hey, I didn't quite catch that, can you say that again?"

  • Or even after you've said something

  • that you're not sure is quite right,

  • that kind of a person is a good person to say,

  • "Hey, did I say that right?

  • "I wasn't sure if I said that right."

  • I think making people your conversation partner,

  • it often just takes a little bit of courage in saying,

  • "Hey, did I say that right?

  • "Hey, would you mind just saying that again?

  • "I wasn't quite sure I caught it."

  • Almost always people are really willing to jump in and say,

  • "Oh, actually, yeah, you almost had it right,

  • "but there was this one little part,

  • "let me tell you about it."

  • People love to help.

  • - And they might not correct you if not prompted.

  • - I would say that even stronger,

  • they're likely to not correct you.

  • I think Americans are,

  • I think some cultures would be much more free

  • to jump in and say, "Oh, you said that a little bit off."

  • Thinking back to being in Italy,

  • I feel like Italian culture, it's more kind of out there,

  • and people might say, "Oh you said that a little bit wrong."

  • I think Americans are very reticent to initiate that,

  • but very ready to give you that feedback if you ask for it.

  • That would be my take on it.

  • - And this is reminding me, as we're talking about work,

  • I'm thinking, okay, one of my other students

  • in Rachel's English Academy, Sam, works in Silicon Valley,

  • and he was saying so many of his co-workers,

  • the vast majority were non-native speakers.

  • And so, even though he was interacting with people

  • all throughout the day, and he lives in America,

  • he still felt like he was not immersed in American English,

  • which he really wanted to be

  • because he wanted to get better at it.

  • So this is the same issue that Clarence was having.

  • All of his friends were international students.

  • Where are other places?

  • How can you start relationships with people,

  • start friendships with people?

  • I had a couple of ideas.

  • One of them is, when I was studying in Europe,

  • the place where I was studying, the Goethe-Institut,

  • had a program where it matched people

  • who wanted to learn languages,

  • so I was matched with somebody who lived there in Germany

  • that wanted to learn English.

  • That became a great way for me to practice German

  • and also to have a friend.

  • And so I would say look for programs where

  • maybe there's a language school, let's say you speak Arabic,

  • find a language school, if they're giving Arabic classes

  • and especially intermediate or advanced classes,

  • contact them and say, "I'm a native Arabic speaker.

  • "Do you have any program

  • "where you connect your native speakers with Americans?

  • "'Cause I'd love a language exchange."

  • It's a possibility.

  • And then it's really a win-win 'cause you're both invested,

  • you're both wanting the same thing.

  • And when you're meeting someone regularly,

  • it's very possible that a real friendship

  • can develop, I think.

  • - Absolutely.

  • - Another thing that I've talked about before is,

  • how can you create a space

  • where you're seeing the same people regularly?

  • If it's not work, if it's not school,

  • and there are various clubs,

  • there's a running club in Philadelphia.

  • In our neighborhood, there's like a mom's meetup group.

  • Look for that kind of thing.

  • What's your interest?

  • Search for it online,

  • see if there's a local group where people are meeting up.

  • There's the the dad's meetup once a month,

  • that you've been to before.

  • That's a great way to maybe connect with people

  • more than once.

  • And I really think when it comes to friendship,

  • in the podcast, I was talking about my friend Cara

  • who will chat up anybody on the subway,

  • in the line at the grocery store, it doesn't matter,

  • and she sometimes exchanges numbers

  • and makes friends with people.

  • Most people aren't like that.

  • Most people need a time or two of meeting somebody

  • in sort of a more structured environment

  • to let friendship develop. - I think that's right.

  • Another thing I was thinking about is,

  • I've played co-ed soccer in an intramural league,

  • and in that league you can sign up as an individual person,

  • you don't have to be part of a team already,

  • and I think this is a pretty big trend in a lot of cities

  • in the US where all kinds of sports

  • from kickball and really informal sorts of sports,

  • all the way up to obviously competitive intramural sports

  • are happening, I think it's a trend not just in Philadelphia

  • but people are using the internet to easily sign up

  • for those kinds of leagues. - Great point.

  • - And you sign up for something like that,

  • especially if you sign up as an individual,

  • you're just gonna get plunked on a team,

  • and of course that's incredibly terrifying

  • to show up for the first game,

  • but it forces you to meet native speakers,

  • it forces you to use some conversation.

  • And also, I think that, again, there's sort of a happy hour,

  • let's grab a drink after the game culture,

  • in a lot of those leagues and organizations,

  • and so be ready to say, "Yeah, yeah, I'm in, let's go."

  • And then, even if it's 10 people,

  • you don't have to make friends with all of them,

  • but maybe there's one person

  • who you kind of have a connection with and you can say,

  • "Hey, I'll see you next week, it was great to meet you."

  • Any kind of club or anything that's interesting to you.

  • - And if sports isn't your thing,

  • I think there is a lot of gaming,

  • a lot of stuff set up around gaming,

  • both traditional games like board games, card games,

  • and then of course video games, which we know nothing about,

  • but we know that they're very huge at this point in time.

  • And that people are going

  • and watching other people play and stuff.

  • So, whatever, however you like to spend your time,

  • try to find a group of people doing the same thing.

  • So let's get into some things

  • that are a little bit more American specific.

  • How do you feel,

  • do you feel that Americans are approachable?

  • And if someone approached you,

  • how would you want them to approach you?

  • I guess is my question.

  • Some people, there can be a big cultural unknown,

  • and someone might say,

  • "Well, I would never do that in my own country,

  • "that would be interpreted as this.

  • "I'm afraid to do that here."

  • If someone at work, say, wanted to be your friend,

  • and how would they approach you

  • in a way that would make you feel open to that,

  • do you think?

  • - Yeah, that's actually a really

  • difficult question to answer, I think.

  • For me, the default should be to be pretty direct.

  • "You can be as direct as I am

  • "new to the culture of making friends in America.

  • "And it was great talking with you about the movie

  • "over lunch, would you be open to hanging out sometime?"

  • I do think that Americans,

  • compared to a lot of other cultures can come off

  • as a little bit chilly or standoffish.

  • But I think that right behind that is a desire to connect,

  • and I would say being direct is the way to go.

  • You could sit back and try to figure out,

  • "Well maybe if I did it this way or this way or this way",

  • put yourself out there and take on this sort of,

  • even if you have to fake it,

  • take on the spirit of courage and directness

  • and just say, "Hey, would you be up for going

  • "to lunch sometime?

  • "Or what about coffee some afternoon?"

  • You just gotta go for it.

  • - What do you think about this idea?

  • I think a lot of people are interested in

  • things they don't know much about,

  • and a lot of people love having a hook-up,

  • someone that knows a lot about something.

  • What if someone approached you and said,

  • like let's say a Japanese co-worker, and said,

  • "Hey, there's this great Japanese restaurant,

  • "do you want to come with me sometime?

  • "And I can show you all the best foods."

  • Or something like that, a way to invite them

  • into your own culture in a way within America

  • or to be able to share something unique about yourself

  • could also be a really great way to pique someone's interest

  • in you and what you have to offer.

  • - Yeah, I think that's a great point.

  • And related, no matter what kind of activity,

  • if you know that you're interested in going to something

  • or planning to go to something, you can say,

  • "Hey, on Friday right after work,

  • "I'm going to a show that just opened that the museum.

  • "Any chance you'd like to join me for that?"

  • Because that gives the person a lot of space to say,

  • "Oh no, I can't, thanks anyway."

  • That's a little bit easier than saying,

  • "Hey, can you and I do something sometime?

  • "I have a plan, would you like to come with me on it?"

  • It implies, "I'm going either way."

  • It makes it more casual.

  • - And it's also a really good point,

  • if you find something that's happening locally

  • that's really interesting,

  • then that can be part of what's happening.

  • I personally think a lot of Americans like doing things.

  • And so the idea of just sitting down to a conversation

  • with somebody with no purpose

  • might seem a little bit strange,

  • but if it's the idea of going

  • and doing something interesting with someone

  • that that might be more appealing.

  • Invite them to, like you said, a museum opening,

  • or a concert, or in Philadelphia,

  • there's all sorts of interesting events going on

  • in the summer outside, this kind of thing.

  • So that could also be a great way to

  • make that first ask of somebody,

  • taking them from a co-worker to hanging out once could be,

  • invite them into your own culture in some way,

  • or invite them to go do something really cool

  • within the city or the place where you live.

  • So to wrap this up, making friends in America can be hard,

  • and one thing we didn't get to is that for both you and me,

  • after college, we've had a hard time making friends,

  • like where do you meet people?

  • And this is something I've discussed with other friends too

  • when they move somewhere new.

  • So if you're a non-native speaker living in the US

  • and you're feeling this, you're not alone.

  • I also feel that it's hard to make friends.

  • But a couple of ways to try to do that,

  • find places where you'll be seeing the same people

  • more than once in a structured environment.

  • And say yes if you get asked to do something,

  • try to be outgoing,

  • and maybe even be the person to make the ask.

  • And this is something that we've talked about,

  • as I said, in the podcast and I thought,

  • I mean, that's been really well received,

  • I think that's been really helpful for people,

  • so you don't have to go anywhere to find that,

  • I don't want to make you click,

  • we're gonna play it right now.

  • Keep in mind it's just audio, but we'll play it here,

  • and if you want a transcript of that podcast,

  • all of the transcripts from my podcasts are free

  • and I'll put the link on the screen

  • and also in the video description,

  • or you can go download a free transcript of the podcast.

  • So do you have any other words or ideas of advice for people

  • who were not born in America, living in America,

  • trying to connect with Americans?

  • - Yeah well, no I think, as you were talking, it just,

  • it brought up for me how much Americans

  • are looking for connection too.

  • It might feel one-sided, like,

  • "Ah, I have to put myself out there,

  • "and it's not my native language",

  • but I think as you practice that

  • and maybe get shot down a couple times, who cares?

  • I think you'll find that a lot of Americans

  • are really seeking that kind of more real connection too.

  • So just kind of trust that and go for it.

  • - Yes, I think that's a great point,

  • even though it might not seem like it,

  • if you're willing to break the ice,

  • I think you might find that there's a lot of willingness

  • to connect and to be friends.

  • - Okay, well David, thanks for joining me

  • for this conversation about friendships in America.

  • That's it guys, thanks so much for using Rachel's English,

  • and stay tuned to listen to that podcast.

  • You are listening to the Rachel's English Podcast.

  • I'm so glad to have you here.

  • In this podcast, we discuss topics in American conversation,

  • pronunciation and culture.

  • And today's episode focuses on culture.

  • If you would like a free transcript for this podcast,

  • just visit RachelsEnglish.com/podcast

  • and look for this episode.

  • Today, I'm here with my husband David.

  • Hey, David.

  • - Hey, everybody.

  • - And we're going to talk about

  • friendships in America.

  • David, you have lots of friends.

  • - I do.

  • - So I think you're probably gonna have

  • a lot to add to this one.

  • - All right.

  • - So I went to,

  • the thing that made me think about this podcast

  • is two different emails that I got.

  • Actually, one was a comment on YouTube.

  • And this person whose username is Management Courses said,

  • "You're so lucky to have friends who are supportive,

  • "both males and females."

  • David, this was on a video that I made with Dave at

  • the 4th of July when we were in Clark Park

  • talking about 4th of July traditions.

  • - Right, okay. - Do you remember that video?

  • - Yeah, I do.

  • - I'll link to that video

  • in the show notes, everybody,

  • but it was me with a friend, who's a man,

  • discussing what we like to do on the 4th of July.

  • So this person says, "Can you make a video

  • "on how to build more supportive friendships?

  • "What do you do to be a better friend?

  • "In my culture, after marriage,

  • "the wife's friendships suffer,

  • "and you can't keep close friendships with the opposite sex.

  • "I had the misconception that Americans

  • don't value friendship,

  • "or their friendships are not long-lasting, or shallow.

  • "Your videos showed me the opposite."

  • So that's great, I'm so glad that my videos showed

  • that Americans do value friendship,

  • and that friendships are not just shallow or short-lived.

  • - Absolutely.

  • - But so, let's try to talk

  • a little bit about friendships.

  • Let's focus in on some of the specific questions.

  • How to build more supportive friendships?

  • Now part of what's so great about having David

  • on this podcast is not only does he have a ton of friends,

  • but he's also a therapist,

  • and so he talks to a lot of other people

  • about their friendships and their relationships in general,

  • and has a lot of things to say about

  • this kind of thing, I think.

  • David, what would you say makes a better friend?

  • Makes someone a good friend?

  • - Sure.

  • First of all I guess while I'm thinking of it,

  • I think part of what's interesting is that

  • from a non-native speaker's perspective

  • or someone who's new to American culture,

  • I think because of advertising and sort of

  • just the way things look from the outside,

  • I think it's easy to assume that for all of us really

  • that for other people, making friends is really easy.

  • I think it's something that we feel like

  • we should be able to do,

  • well, everybody else is out there having a good time,

  • look at everybody on TV, when in reality,

  • I think the opposite is true,

  • I think the majority of people are either

  • wishing they had more friendships

  • or wishing that things about the friendships

  • that they do have might be a little bit different,

  • like they often wish that they were more close

  • with more people.

  • So I think that's the first thing that popped in my mind

  • is that a lot of people,

  • non-native speakers and native speakers alike

  • struggle with this, even though I don't think,

  • I mean, I really appreciate the courage in the question

  • because I don't think a lot of people bring this up.

  • - Yeah, it's a good point.

  • I mean as I'm sitting here listening to you talk about this

  • I'm thinking I could definitely say that this is true

  • of me living in Philadelphia.

  • I've been here for three years now

  • and I'm definitely starting to make some friends

  • that feel like really, really quality friendships,

  • but I can't say that I've made any of those by myself.

  • They're all friends that I made through David,

  • that David already had established

  • some sort of a relationship with,

  • like I haven't met somebody that I have turned

  • into a friend, really, on my own.

  • - You've been connected to some friends of friends.

  • - Yeah. - Also.

  • - I mean, that's always the end, right?

  • When you move somewhere new, you look for connections

  • you have to people that are there already,

  • but as far as if you were moving to America to go to school

  • or for a job or something where you didn't already have

  • anyone established in that town or in that city,

  • that would make it really hard to know where to start.

  • And I think for me, I could definitely say as an adult

  • three years into that experience,

  • I don't really have people that I have met

  • because I have been introduced to them in a way other than

  • through someone I already knew.

  • - Yeah, I follow.

  • Right, it's not easy.

  • - No, it's really but.

  • But having said that, we do have good friends here

  • and it is true that Americans do value friendship,

  • even though probably a lot of people

  • might like to have more friends

  • or more closer friendships than they have.

  • - Yeah, I think to answer that part of her question,

  • absolutely I think Americans very much value friendships.

  • Of course, it looks different in in all cultures,

  • but I think also something,

  • and the comment is also true that it can,

  • it can be difficult when it is across gender.

  • I mean, yes, your video with Dave at the park,

  • it's a great video and you guys are good friends

  • and it is not a big deal at all,

  • but I also think it's not uncommon for that to be

  • something that causes tension in relationships--

  • - And complication, yeah, I thought it--

  • - Not really complication, but tension.

  • There's a temptation to be distrustful of your partner.

  • - Yes, but I'm talking about for single people,

  • there's complication there.

  • I mean you're talking about if you're married,

  • then like this person said, after marriage,

  • then friendship suffers and you can't keep close friends,

  • keep close friendship with the opposite sex.

  • - Yeah, I was commenting on that part.

  • - Okay, so yes, you're right,

  • it can be complicated if David had,

  • although you do have really close friends that are women,

  • and it's not weird for me, yeah,

  • but I suppose it could be,

  • depending on if one friendship just really

  • set out from the rest, stood out from the rest

  • as being just extra super important to you,

  • that could be hard for me.

  • - Well, I'm not saying it should cause tension,

  • I think it should be the opposite.

  • I think it should be,

  • the assumption should be that it's healthy and good and fine

  • but I'm just, to her point,

  • it's not just in the culture that she's coming from,

  • but I think here also, people make undue tension

  • out of that situation here as well.

  • - Yet in America, it's definitely allowed.

  • It's definitely not strange to have friends

  • of the opposite sex after you've become married.

  • And it sounds like she might be saying

  • it's really frowned upon in her culture, but I do value,

  • like we have a friend who was one of my friends,

  • now you've become really close with her, Renee,

  • and I love that you're so close with her

  • because I love her too.

  • But yeah, I think that can be really special.

  • I do think when you're single

  • and you're friends with someone of the opposite sex

  • who's also single, if that friendship gets really close,

  • it can start to be complicated,

  • people might be asking you a lot

  • if there's something going on,

  • and I just know from personal experience that,

  • at one point, at some point,

  • you may need to have a conversation like,

  • "Are we just friends, or are we more than friends?"

  • - Yeah, I see where you're going with this.

  • Yeah, that's over more into what's romantic and what's not.

  • - Actually, there was a Seinfeld episode,

  • do you remember, David, where they were talking about

  • can men and women be friends?

  • - And I think it was Seinfeld was saying,

  • no, they can't be, they can't be real friends.

  • They can't be friends where there's not any thought

  • of romantic or physical attraction happening.

  • - Okay. - That was Seinfeld's take.

  • I would disagree, I think you can have a friendship

  • that exists totally outside of the romantic

  • and the physical.

  • - I agree.

  • - Okay, but let's go back to the question

  • how to build more supportive friendships?

  • I mean I guess I would say, if it's an issue of

  • finding the people who you want to be friends with

  • in the first place, I mean,

  • I know that this has been an issue for me,

  • how do I meet people?

  • When I think back on times when it was easy to meet people,

  • it's like college, where there was this set place and time

  • where you were seeing people on a regular basis.

  • How do you recreate that as an adult no longer in school

  • outside of work?

  • I mean, you could take a class.

  • That's always a popular thing, take a class,

  • something where you're gonna be seeing

  • the same people over and over

  • that you have a common interest with.

  • -I think one of the things

  • that I suggest to people is

  • spend some time thinking about

  • what are you most interested in,

  • what are you most passionate about,

  • what brings out the best side of you,

  • your curious engaged self?

  • And then go find that out in the world somewhere

  • where there are gonna be other people

  • who are also interested in that.

  • So in other words, sometimes people think they should

  • take up a whole new interest in a class,

  • like I've never drawn before,

  • so there's this part of my brain that goes

  • I should go take a drawing class.

  • Well actually, maybe it's not the best idea.

  • Go find something that you know is gonna have you

  • really, really energized and curious

  • because I think then you're gonna be

  • meeting other people who are passionate about what you are,

  • and it can make an easy bridge into

  • some opening conversations.

  • - That's a good idea, a good point,

  • go with something you know you love already.

  • Another thing is I have a friend, Cara,

  • who just has the personality for meeting people.

  • She'll be on the subway and strike up a conversation.

  • She'll be checking out at a grocery store

  • and she'll make friends with people in line

  • waiting to check out as well.

  • And that's not my personality, but I mean,

  • there's definitely something to be said for being outgoing

  • and just saying, "Oh hey, isn't this funny how",

  • whatever, starting a conversation.

  • - Right, the temptation is to think,

  • well, I need to make some friends,

  • I have to go find some big, deep, meaningful friendships,

  • when in reality the only way to do that

  • is to be always aware that you're sort of

  • currently looking for friends and to strike up conversations

  • 'cause we don't know who's gonna actually be someone

  • that we have a good connection with

  • unless we actually are out there,

  • talking to lots of different people.

  • - Yeah, start small.

  • And I think in the US,

  • it is very appropriate to strike up conversations.

  • Strike up means to start,

  • and they can be sort of out of the blue.

  • Now we recently recorded a podcast where I was talking about

  • how that's my pet peeve.

  • As an introvert,

  • I just don't like having these kinds of conversations,

  • but don't let that stop you.

  • If you're an extrovert where you're trying to make friends,

  • just go ahead and start up conversations with people.

  • You can comment on anything,

  • something that's happening around you, or,

  • "Man, it's so hot today, isn't it?"

  • Or something like that.

  • Or you could say to someone, "Oh, I love your jacket."

  • Compliment them in some way,

  • engage them in conversation.

  • Yeah and just, for me,

  • that would really be pushing myself,

  • but for some people, it's not.

  • But okay, so we've talked about ways

  • where you can try to start friendships.

  • And we've established that we think Americans are

  • open to people striking up conversation with them.

  • - Yeah, for the most part.

  • I mean I think also, for better or for worse,

  • for people like yourself who are an introvert,

  • it's also very appropriate in this country to,

  • the phrase is to blow people off,

  • or to be just pretty disinterested

  • if someone tries to strike up a conversation with you.

  • So you have to kind of know that half

  • or maybe even more than that,

  • that the conversations that you try to strike up with people

  • people are gonna be kind of disinterested,

  • maybe not make eye contact with you,

  • and quickly wrap up the conversation.

  • And that's totally appropriate socially as well.

  • That's called giving a subtle social cue that,

  • "Actually, I don't really want to talk right now,

  • "thanks but no thanks on your offer of a conversation."

  • People aren't gonna come out and say,

  • "Please stop talking to me"--

  • - Right, they'll just drop hints.

  • - Drop hints, yeah.

  • - And don't let that discourage you,

  • that just means that person wasn't in the mood that day,

  • but you can definitely keep trying and you may find that

  • you find someone who's also in the mood

  • to strike up a conversation or make a friend.

  • Another thing is where you're living,

  • try to explore the places around there.

  • If you find a local restaurant or coffee shop or park,

  • go there to try to strike up these conversations

  • because then you're very likely gonna be talking to people

  • who live around you or have the same interests as you.

  • - that's happened to you and I

  • a couple times during the last year and a half,

  • since stony's been born, going to the play space

  • and other areas around our house.

  • When you see the same person three or four times in a row,

  • even without having said anything,

  • you then kind of have an idea that,

  • "Oh, this person is gonna be here on a regular basis",

  • and it makes it easy then to go up and say hello

  • 'cause it gives you a way to say, "Hey, I noticed

  • "you guys have been here a couple,

  • "the same times I have", is sort of a bridge into

  • starting a conversation.

  • - Now let's talk about going up and saying hello

  • if English isn't your native language

  • and you sometimes have a hard time understanding Americans.

  • That could really stop somebody from doing that,

  • that could really be a mental block.

  • - Yeah, I think that that's right.

  • - And I guess what I would say there is,

  • don't assume that the person isn't willing

  • to try to help you figure out conversation.

  • Some people may not be interested in trying to

  • help you understand them trying to say things

  • a couple different ways,

  • but other people may be very interested,

  • "Oh, who is this person who's from somewhere else

  • "who's chosen to come here?"

  • So yeah, just keep trying, and not every person you talk to

  • is going to be open to who you are,

  • but you'll probably find somebody eventually who is.

  • - And I think another tip too is

  • when you initiate the conversation,

  • it gives you the opportunity to go first,

  • and what I mean by that is you can say

  • something along the lines of, "Hi, my name is David.

  • "I've noticed that you guys hang out here as well,

  • "and so I thought I would come over and introduce myself.

  • "I live in the neighborhood."

  • In other words, you can be prepared to talk for 30 seconds

  • or a minute about yourself in a way that

  • you kind of have a chance to rehearse,

  • versus going up to someone and saying,

  • like as a native speaker,

  • I can go up to someone and just say, "Hi, I'm David.

  • "So, what are you guys up to today?"

  • Without worrying at all about

  • comprehending the long answer that might come back.

  • But I think if you're a non-native speaker

  • and you want to sort of avoid that,

  • you can kind of talk for a little bit,

  • versus opening with a quick question.

  • - Yeah, you can sort of prepare

  • your little introduction.

  • So once you've started making,

  • let's call them light friendships,

  • people that you know, you're friendly with,

  • you know their name, how do you build them

  • into more supportive friendships?

  • - It's the big question, right?

  • - Actually, that brings me to

  • another question that came in but I'd love to read now

  • because I think that will become part of this conversation.

  • - Okay.

  • - So this is a question that came from

  • one of my students in Rachel's English Academy

  • and she's from Germany and now she lives in the US,

  • and she has said to me,

  • "I find that Americans are really open to talking with me

  • "if I'm in a really good mood, and all I'm just,

  • "all I'm saying are positive things,

  • "life is good, life is great, everything's good,

  • "let's have fun and talk about funny things",

  • then people are really willing to engage with her.

  • But she said, "But if I bring up something

  • "difficult in my life,

  • "something that I'm having a problem with,

  • "maybe financial difficulties or looking for a job,

  • "having a hard time finding a job,

  • "or just a struggle in general, when I bring that up",

  • she says she finds that people don't really seem

  • to want to talk about it.

  • She said of course there are a few times

  • where she's found people who are willing to

  • discuss this with her, but in general,

  • people seem to kind of turn away

  • from that kind of conversation

  • about the harder things in life,

  • but the things that are present for everybody.

  • Were you gonna say something?

  • - Right, I think that when we take a risk

  • or when we're vulnerable and share a little bit of something

  • that's real or something that's deep,

  • she gives great examples there about things that are hard,

  • when we are with someone who has been a casual friend

  • and we take a risk and share something that is

  • really deep for us that's a real struggle,

  • I think that's sort of how you figure out

  • which of your casual friends

  • are the relationships to really invest in

  • and go for more depth with.

  • I mean, just to put some numbers on it,

  • I think if you have 10 casual friends

  • and with each of those 10 people, at some point,

  • you take a risk and really share something about yourself,

  • I would expect that probably two

  • out of those 10 conversations

  • would then go into a deeper, fuller conversation.

  • It's sort of like with the initial conversation

  • with someone in line at the grocery store,

  • you strike up 10 of those conversations,

  • probably only two of those conversations

  • are gonna be more than just a quick casual,

  • "Hey, how's it going?"

  • So I think it's difficult because

  • when we're being vulnerable and sharing things

  • that are difficult, we really,

  • we're putting ourself out there,

  • so it's hard to be rejected,

  • or maybe that's too strong of a word, but maybe not.

  • It's a feeling of rejection that comes up

  • when the other person doesn't want to engage.

  • Let's talk eight out of 10 times,

  • people aren't really interested in the fact

  • that you just shared something

  • that you're really struggling with.

  • The other side is if you can think about it as

  • from the positive side, you've found two people

  • with whom you can now really invest deeply with,

  • I think that's a pretty compelling reason to say that

  • the eight shutdowns, shoot, what's it called?

  • Being shot down are worth it.

  • - Yeah, so okay, a couple things here.

  • One thing is how to build more supportive,

  • deeper friendships.

  • One way is to simply open up more and tell more

  • things about yourself, including things that are hard,

  • being more real, more vulnerable.

  • And then David's talking about when you

  • try to deepen a friendship by doing that,

  • there's maybe a very good chance that that person

  • is not ready to have that kind of a friendship with you

  • and is just gonna kind of find a way to change the subject

  • of the conversation, but a couple will likely be willing to

  • be more receptive to that.

  • So maybe what this woman who submitted this comment,

  • maybe the culture where she is in,

  • it's more normal to talk about struggles

  • with friendships that are a little bit less deep.

  • I mean for me, if I have a casual acquaintance with someone

  • and they start talking about something

  • that they're struggling with, this is awful,

  • but part of me starts to wonder,

  • "What do they, what are they trying to get out of me?

  • "What do they want me to do for them?"

  • Isn't that horrible?

  • Whereas if it's a good friend, then I'm all ears,

  • I'm listening, I'm engaged, I want to help that person,

  • I want to be there for that person,

  • I want to help him or her fix whatever is wrong,

  • but if it's someone I don't really know

  • and they start talking about what's difficult in their life,

  • I find that I don't really know what to do with that

  • and I start to think, "Why are they telling me this?"

  • Do you ever feel that?

  • I mean how do you, I guess it depends on

  • how you're defining an acquaintance,

  • but David's looking at me like he maybe doesn't agree.

  • - I think, no, not that I don't agree,

  • I think that what's coming up for you in those moments

  • is your discomfort and you're not,

  • your disinterest in taking that relationship

  • to a deeper place.

  • I mean again, I would focus on the two out of 10 times

  • when it does feel right.

  • I don't think we can spend a ton of time

  • examining the eight out of 10,

  • but I think your energy is much better spent on

  • those two out of 10 times when somebody that is

  • a casual friend to you opens up and starts sharing with you

  • and you're kind of like, "Oh, wow, we're going there.

  • "Okay, that's kind of, I wasn't expecting this,

  • "but all right, okay, I'm listening."

  • - So one of the things that she had said was

  • she feels like Americans

  • only want to talk about positive things,

  • and I guess what we are saying here is that

  • that is probably true of acquaintances

  • and people of a certain level of friendship,

  • but once you are spending more time with somebody

  • and sharing more personal things with somebody

  • and it's reciprocated, then that person will, I think,

  • definitely be willing to talk about your struggles.

  • I mean, Americans don't shy away from that,

  • they just I think save that kind of conversation

  • for someone that they have a very particular

  • kind of relationship with.

  • And so that conversation happening outside of a friendship

  • that they feel is very deep probably feels awkward,

  • and that I think might be

  • where this person is feeling shut down.

  • - Yeah, and I think that you're right that that is,

  • I'm sure it's lodged in cultural norms and is different

  • from place to place, from culture to culture.

  • But yeah I think that that's exactly right.

  • And part of what's hard is that there's no way to know

  • where you are sort of with another person

  • without testing it out.

  • - Right, and then you either get shut down

  • or the person's interested.

  • - Yeah, you can try to assess and assess and assess

  • in your mind like, "Well, they said this last time,

  • "and I almost said something, but then I didn't,

  • "and I wonder if",

  • then you can go around and around in circles

  • for hours and hours about whether or not

  • this person is someone who you should take a risk with,

  • or you can just go for it, and sort of,

  • that takes major courage,

  • but if you can get yourself to know that,

  • "Hey, you know what?

  • "Eight out of 10 times it may not go well,

  • "but it's worth it because those two out of 10 times

  • "where it does go well are really, really worth it to me,

  • "so I'm gonna go for it."

  • - Yeah, that's where you start building

  • the real friendships.

  • And actually I think one way that you can test the waters,

  • that is try something out with somebody,

  • let's say you've met them a couple times,

  • they're an acquaintance, you maybe consider them a friend.

  • Rather than opening up about yourself

  • and saying something that you're struggling with

  • or something that's hard for you to deal with,

  • you can ask that person a question,

  • and then see how they respond.

  • Do they go deep with their answer?

  • Or do they just sort of give a light surface answer?

  • And that's a clue, "Okay, this person isn't ready

  • "to talk about these more important things with me,

  • "or this person is ready."

  • - It's a really good point,

  • that thought had crossed my mind earlier,

  • and I'm glad you brought it up, yeah, absolutely.

  • So what would be an example of a kind of question

  • that someone could ask an acquaintance/light new friend

  • in order to see,

  • "Oh, how can I try to take this friendship deeper?"

  • -Yeah, I think a couple things,

  • I mean, one of the things is to say

  • something that you noticed and ask about it,

  • "I noticed last time we were hanging out

  • "that you didn't mention how your husband's doing.

  • "Is everything going okay with you guys?"

  • - Or even just, "How is blank going?"

  • Even if you have no idea if it's gonna involve a good answer

  • or a bad answer, just asking,

  • "Oh, how are things going with the kids?

  • "Or how are things going at work?"

  • - Yeah, anything that anybody says,

  • you can follow up with, "And how is that for you?

  • "How's that going for you?"

  • - And then from there depending on their answer,

  • you might be able to draw them out more,

  • see if they're interested in being drawn out more

  • and if they are, then that conversation will grow,

  • and probably that friendship will grow.

  • I read an article several months ago now

  • about a bunch of high schools

  • that were accepting one year,

  • or one to two year international students from China,

  • the article was focusing on Chinese students

  • studying in American high schools.

  • And the article was talking about how hard it is

  • for these Chinese students to make friends in America

  • and I was like, "Gosh, of course."

  • And part of it is in a high school situation,

  • kids are using so much slang that these students are coming

  • who studied English formally,

  • and they don't understand the general idea of conversation,

  • like they just can't keep up.

  • And I think that would be incredibly hard.

  • And I think if you're in that situation,

  • your only hope is to ask what people mean,

  • and probably be doing that a lot.

  • And for a lot of people, that might be annoying,

  • and that might turn them off, but for a few people,

  • they'll be willing to answer you,

  • and then those are people with whom I think

  • you're gonna start to develop a more real friendship.

  • What do you think, David? - Right, exactly.

  • Yeah, that's exactly right.

  • - So really making friends

  • and turning acquaintances into deeper friends

  • is hugely an issue of putting yourself out there.

  • That means taking a risk, being vulnerable.

  • David, talk to me about some of your best friends

  • about how you met those people,

  • where that friendship was nurtured?

  • - Sure, so one of my closest friends

  • I met in high school, so in ninth grade,

  • and we had class together, and we just,

  • I think the first time that we spoke

  • was during an assignment in the Spanish class

  • and we hit it off.

  • We ended up both playing basketball,

  • and that was the start of our friendship

  • that's still really close to this day.

  • - So a friendship that carried through

  • from childhood?

  • - Yeah, mm-hmm, yeah, we would have been,

  • how old are you in ninth grade?

  • 15, I guess.

  • - Yeah, 14 maybe.

  • Okay so-- - So that's one extreme.

  • That's an example of a childhood friend.

  • And then I guess sort of on the other end

  • would be someone that I met about seven years ago at work

  • who just from being at work together

  • and having conversations there, realizing that,

  • "Oh, you know what?

  • "We really get along well."

  • And so then he and I started to hang out

  • outside of work sometimes,

  • and that ended up becoming a very close friendship.

  • I was the officiant at their wedding,

  • and we are extremely close now and see each other a lot,

  • even though we no longer work together,

  • so that's someone who I met later in life

  • who has become a very close friend as well.

  • - And then what about Adrian?

  • You have a really interesting story about

  • how you met him, don't you?

  • - Yeah, so we were, we had a mutual friend,

  • and when Adrian and I met,

  • we started to do some of the typical questions

  • back and forth about, "So, what do you do?"

  • And we realized that we have both done

  • restorative justice work, which is a particular kind of

  • intervention with people in conflict,

  • and then we realized that we have both done work around

  • domestic violence and we were both politically engaged

  • in sort of really similar ways,

  • and just sort of had this story

  • that kept mirroring each other at every turn.

  • And this is another example of how

  • you can really quickly become close with someone

  • when you realize you have a bunch of

  • overlapping life experiences and just

  • can hit it off right away because of that.

  • - I had heard the story that you guys

  • were at a bar and you just randomly met,

  • but you actually were there because

  • you had a friend in common.

  • - Yeah, mm-hmm. - Okay.

  • But still, you strike up this conversation

  • and you find you have all these things in common and then--

  • - Right, right.

  • - He's moved away now,

  • but he just visited us last week,

  • it was great to see him.

  • - That was great.

  • - Let me see if I can talk about

  • some of my friendships that I have.

  • One of them, well, I definitely have friends from college.

  • That's just where I met,

  • actually, my mom has made this comment.

  • Throughout my life, I tend to have entered into

  • or built around me these groups of six to eight women

  • and that have become really

  • close and supportive communities.

  • I had that in high school and growing up,

  • I had the same thing in college,

  • and then living in New York,

  • I had developed this awesome group of women too.

  • And so that's been lucky,

  • and the growing up and the college, that's obvious,

  • 'cause you're together all the time in school.

  • And in New York, we all met 'cause

  • we were connected through various people,

  • and I think New York is the kind of place

  • where there are so many people

  • that it's actually easy to feel lost.

  • And so I think when you're going there,

  • you often reach out, who do you know, who do you know,

  • who knows people in New York?

  • And very often there are people who know people in New York,

  • and so that can kind of build a web for you

  • when you go somewhere, and that definitely happened for me.

  • And one of my other really close friends

  • who's been in a bunch of Rachel's English videos,

  • her name is Lynne, but we all call her Beads.

  • I met her from a singing gig,

  • and I think when you're in the arts

  • and theater of the performing arts,

  • you can make really, really amazing friends

  • because obviously you have the same passion.

  • And then when you're in a production,

  • you are just hanging out together all the time.

  • - I would also say that when you're performing,

  • you're constantly in a state of vulnerability

  • alongside people too.

  • - And that's interesting.

  • Yeah, and people know what you're going through,

  • like if you get sick.

  • As a singer, if you get a cold, your other friends are like,

  • "Oh, it's fine, it's a cold, you'll be okay",

  • whereas another singer knows, "Oh my gosh, that's gonna,

  • "yeah I'm gonna have to figure out how to work through that,

  • "that's gonna be tough."

  • Yeah.

  • Well David, it's been really interesting

  • discussing friendships with you and just thinking about

  • how many times you might kind of reach out to somebody

  • and have them not be interested

  • before you find someone

  • where you can develop something more.

  • And I'm really curious, is this very different

  • from what people out there experience

  • in their own home culture, or is it pretty similar?

  • I wish that I had the chance to talk with other people

  • from other cultures about this.

  • But thank you guys so much for listening

  • and thank you David for being here and sharing some about

  • your life, your background,

  • and your perspective on friendships.

  • - Yeah, you're welcome, that was really fun.

  • - And thanks for the questions that got written in.

  • Guys, if you would like to subscribe to this podcast,

  • I hope you do.

  • You can visit the iTunes Store or Stitcher to subscribe.

  • I would also love it if you would take the time

  • to leave a review there.

  • You know what?

  • Go do it right now.

  • I read all of the reviews,

  • and I really love to hear what you think about the podcast.

  • That's it for this week, we'll be back again next week.

  • Can't wait to talk to you guys.

  • See you soon.

  • - Bye, guys.

Today we're going to talk about making friends in America.

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