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  • (uptempo music)

  • - Hello everyone, I'm Stephen Galloway,

  • and welcome to Close-Up with Hollywood Reporter Directors.

  • I'd like to welcome Angelina Jolie,

  • Guillermo del Toro, Greta Gerwig, Patty Jenkins,

  • Joe Wright, and Denis Villeneuve.

  • You're on a lifeboat.

  • You happen to have a DVD or Blu-Ray player.

  • - Oh no! - We're gonna do that?

  • That's not fair. - Oh no.

  • - [Stephen] What film are you gonna take with you to watch?

  • Let's start with you, Guillermo.

  • - Oh, why? (laughs)

  • - [Denis] You're the cinephile of the group.

  • (laughs) - Why?

  • Emotionally, I will answer something

  • completely non-prestigious.

  • Yeah, it's because of what it did when I was a teenager,

  • The Road Warrior.

  • (laughs)

  • It completely destroyed my brain.

  • - [Stephen] Wow, I thought you were gonna say Frankenstein.

  • - And, that's the problem.

  • The other one is I would do that.

  • I would take James Whale's Frankenstein.

  • And, it's just The Road Warrior, for me, it's the first time

  • I noticed how the camera worked and moved

  • and it was a ballet.

  • And, I would probably change my mind half way

  • through the life boat journey.

  • I would go, "Where is Frankenstein?"

  • (laughs)

  • - Have you ever met George Miller?

  • - I met and I worship George Miller, and I intend,

  • my sabbatical this year I'm going to do two

  • two week interviews.

  • One with Michael Mann and one with George Miller

  • purely about the craft to publish them in book form

  • just because I wanna talk with them about

  • what we never talk about, which is the craft.

  • Lenses, cameras, why, why push, why not push,

  • when crane, when dolly, why not?

  • To talk about the aspects of or painting

  • that nobody talks about which is vigor of the trays,

  • amount of paint.

  • We always discuss movies sort of in

  • a liturgical way. - If you had one question

  • to ask George Miller what would it be?

  • - To whom?

  • - If you had one question to ask George Miller

  • what would it be?

  • - Do you like me?

  • (laughs)

  • - [Stephen] You're so insecure.

  • (laughs)

  • - Dad? (laughs)

  • (laughs)

  • - What's your lifeboat film?

  • - Oh god, you're going to jump to me next.

  • I'm like sitting here listening to him the whole time

  • and I'm like, "Oh my god, so many movies

  • "go through my head."

  • 'Cause there's the, I have all my--

  • - Only one. - One.

  • - I Know Where I'm Going, Powell and Pressburger.

  • Like, I just love that movie and also like, there's the

  • design of it fascinates me because it's like so romantic

  • but you never notice that it was really

  • becoming that romantic.

  • - It was so romantic, Powell and Pressburger, so romantic.

  • - And so good, and timeless. - What did it teach you

  • that you then brought to your work?

  • - The pocket of emotion of romance because I love

  • romantic films and I love romantic things.

  • - What do you mean by the pocket of emotion?

  • - It's the space where you get it and it's sincere

  • and it's real and you just keep it from hitting the ground.

  • It's almost the electricity of what love is, to me, is it's

  • when fear is mixed with desire and it's (vocalizing).

  • And so, there was something so incredible about

  • that moment, you never saw it coming and all of a sudden

  • you were (vocalizes) these two people are just sitting there

  • and you're like (gasps) those people are meant

  • to be together, oh my god.

  • And then, the storm and, you know, anyway.

  • - They do it in other films, too, they do that.

  • - Oh yeah, and they're so incredible.

  • - Masterful. - Such incredible filmmakers.

  • - Is love in real life ever what it is in films?

  • - I think so. - Yes.

  • - But, I think too often-- - Good answer.

  • - Well anyway, I have theories about love

  • but the fear and desire being equaled is the thing

  • and I think film allows that to happen,

  • but that's what it is in real life, too.

  • Although, we always wanna shut it down.

  • And, your desire is always to get, no, upper hand

  • and then as soon as you do it's not so much love anymore.

  • - I love that answer.

  • - So, I think it's like film allows people to feel

  • comfortable extending it longer.

  • - But, just to talk about romance, I'm not choosing

  • this on my boat, but Brief Encounters that David Lean movie

  • when they're talking and she has that moment where

  • she looks at him, he's describing something and she

  • looks at him and she says, "You looked like

  • "a little boy just then."

  • And then, he looks at her and it's like too late,

  • they're already in love and it's too late.

  • And, it's like that moment of like they both realized

  • what had happened and they both knew that

  • the other one knew it.

  • And then, they have to go and it's like all of sudden

  • you're like oh no, you and I, now you're already in love.

  • Anyway-- - And your boat,

  • what is your boat?

  • - [Greta] Singing in the Rain.

  • - Aw. - That's a nice one.

  • - I mean, if you're on a boat--

  • - Don't doubt yourself, it's

  • a really good one. - If you're on a boat.

  • - Do you find that you're trying to imitate the best

  • in another work or that your job is to react against it?

  • 'Cause there is that theory that great artists

  • actually have another artist that they react against.

  • - Against. - Against.

  • - Mm, but why just one?

  • It would be hard to pick just one that

  • you're reacting against.

  • - There's a lot.

  • - But, I think we're always, I think it's the,

  • I think you're always absolutely

  • studying and paying homage to the people before you

  • and then turning it just a little bit yourself.

  • Like, that's the whole game, to me.

  • - But, it happens, sorry to interrupt the boat thing,

  • but has it happened to you that there are other directors

  • that you start against and you end up realizing

  • they're your favorite.

  • And you go, "I love this guy."

  • - They're all silent, that means you're the only one.

  • - Yeah, not so much, not so much.

  • There are filmmakers that I have aspired to be like.

  • Personally, very personally it's probably a reaction

  • against my father, as well, his work, who was a puppeteer.

  • - Freud would have something to say about that.

  • (laughs)

  • - Yeah, he was a puppeteer and he made

  • very beautiful marionette shows.

  • He founded the first purpose built puppet theater

  • in London in 1961.

  • But, one of the burden's of his career was the fact

  • that everyone saw puppetry as being a kind of

  • a children's entertainment, and he considered it to be

  • a fine art.

  • And so, a lot of it is a kind of reaction against

  • his perceived failure, as well.

  • - And react against it meaning what?

  • - Determination to do better.

  • - Oh yeah, your Anna Karenina has a little bit of that.

  • - No, no it's all about puppetry.

  • It's all about how, you know. - Oh wow.

  • - It all comes from puppetry, really.

  • - Would you chose the lifeboat film

  • with a puppet or without?

  • - Would I choose what?

  • - Your lifeboat film with a puppet

  • or without. - Without, definitely.

  • - It would be what?

  • - It would be probably Wings of Desire by

  • Wim Wenders. - Wow, yeah.

  • - Which I love because of its humanity.

  • And, I think on a lifeboat I might need

  • to be reminded of my love of humanity.

  • So, I'd take that one.

  • Maybe even also Brief Encounter, as well.

  • - Denis? - Yeah, I was saying

  • I think I'm reacting as when I was a very,

  • right out of film school I had I would say

  • the burden of being liked, I made a short film.

  • I was liked by an older filmmaker at home

  • which Pierre Perrault who was like he's a master

  • who was like doing documentaries.

  • And, in the 60s he was like part of the film movement,

  • realistic film movement where they were the first one

  • to have actually taking the camera out of the tripod

  • and go with real people.

  • And they had made a fantastic movie called

  • Pour La Suite Du Monde

  • on a small island in Quebec where they spent three years

  • shooting a fisherman there. - Oh yeah.

  • - And, they made a feature film there that was like,

  • it's considered almost a masterpiece.

  • But, for some reason he liked me and he was very sad

  • that I was going to do fiction instead of documentary.

  • He was like he didn't, because for him fiction

  • was like why are your crying when Catherine Deneuve

  • is crying it's like it's fake, when you can real.

  • Because, his movies are very (mumbles), very strong.

  • And so I have all my live I felt like I owe him

  • a lot because I learned a lot working with him.

  • But, I always felt that I was the bad son.

  • (laughs)

  • The one who went to do fiction instead because

  • I was attracted to fiction--

  • - So, would you chose his film to take with you

  • as a kind of penance?

  • - That's a good, that's a--

  • - How deep does your guilt go?

  • (laughs)

  • - There is trilogy about that island which are amongst

  • the most beautiful movies I've seen yeah,

  • about fishermen and I think, yeah, I might,

  • that could be the answer, yeah.

  • Or, to prepare me for to death it would be

  • 2001: a Space Odyssey. (laughs)

  • It's like my favorite film of all time, I think.

  • And a one that I discovered through television

  • when I was young, - Oh wow.

  • - not allowed to watch it because it was too late

  • in the night for me.

  • - Forbidden fruit are always the best.

  • - And still to this day is one of my movies

  • I revisit with great joy.

  • It's a very existential journey.

  • I think it could be a good one to prepare me

  • to passage if you're on a lifeboat without hope.

  • - I don't know, I mean, it's a really interesting

  • question because it's not like a favorite film.

  • It's like, if you were at the end of you life

  • and you had something and this only thing that was--

  • - It's a horrible question.

  • - That's the question-- - Sorry.

  • - It's more the film that prepares you for death

  • or prepares you for or helps you through solitude.

  • - I would till choose The Road Warrior.

  • (laughs)

  • - Which is actually a bit of a survivalist.

  • - Oh yeah.

  • - Like, it's so it's interesting.

  • So, I really, I don't know if I'd want to be watching

  • movies on your lifeboat.

  • I think it'd be important to not go crazy.

  • - That might be a possibility.

  • - I mean, you know I love Sidney Lumet.

  • So, I love The Hill and I love The Hill because

  • I love seeing, and maybe it would help on

  • the lifeboat to see something just about how

  • you manage through surviving against all odds.

  • I love Milos Forman as we were talking about

  • I love Amadeus, I love Cuckoo's Nest.

  • I love the idea of Cuckoo's Nest might just

  • make me feel full of a certain level of humanity

  • but also maybe I'd be feeling like I'm going

  • a bit crazy on my life raft and I wanna like

  • connect to something that feels alive.

  • But, my real answer is I think I don't know.

  • It's hard with, film does take out of yourself

  • and I sometimes am somebody that can't listen

  • to music 'cause I get too influenced by it.

  • - I am the same. - Are you?

  • - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

  • - Like, I can't, I actually have none.

  • People think I don't like music but if I hear

  • certain music I'll get dark or I'll get light

  • or I'll start to or I'll start to feel--

  • - You mean emotionally?

  • - Emotionally, so I don't, I tend to not regularly

  • watch film because--

  • - You don't, huh?

  • - I get very swayed by things. It effects me, so.

  • - Does the actual process of directing effect you, too?

  • - Yes. - I mean, you did

  • a very heavy emotional drama in Cambodia.

  • How did that impact you personally?

  • - Well, very much and I think like for everybody here

  • and for those of us who acted and spend less time

  • on a film when you direct it's gonna be years of your life.

  • And, I think you're always gonna be doing it well

  • if you need to do it and you need to do it well.

  • In Cambodia this is a subject matter that has been

  • debated, this history is not known internationally.

  • It's not know and it's something that has made me

  • upset when I was in country.

  • I've seen how it effects the people.

  • And, I have a son who deserves to know his history.

  • And, I want him to know what his birth parents went through.

  • And, I want this country to speak, but did I feel

  • I had the right to be the one doing that?

  • It was hard every day to know if I was good enough

  • or the right person to do it.

  • But, I did feel so honored to be welcomed into another

  • culture and allowed to witness and bear witness and

  • encourage and share and really put forward their history

  • as this is what it will be.

  • And, this is what many of the young people,

  • 70% of Cambodians are under 30.

  • So, this is how they're gonna know their history.

  • (speaking foreign language)

  • (footsteps)

  • (explosion)

  • - What changed in you in the course of making that film?

  • - We had this day where we were gonna blow up

  • Mu's children, it was at night and then suddenly

  • we were gonna have explosions and we were all gonna run

  • and the kids.

  • And, I got there with crew and said we've got X

  • amount of hours with the kids.

  • We've gotta get that thing up, we hardly have

  • any of the other, the logistics are impossible.

  • You'd get the wire up the thing.

  • And, it blows and it's not big enough,

  • we gotta do it again.

  • Where are the kids?

  • And suddenly, somebody said they can hear

  • children crying in the jungle.

  • And, we didn't have enough lights to light up the jungle.

  • And, there are landmines in the country.

  • And, I said, "This isn't, gather the children.

  • "We gotta count the kids."

  • And we counted the kids and everybody was there.

  • And then, somebody came up to me and they said,

  • "We're Buddhist, people died on this land.

  • "They're hearing crying because it's the spirit

  • "of the ancestors and you blew a tree."

  • And so, we stopped production and I got incense and water

  • and got on my knees with the rest of them

  • and we took the time to think about the people

  • who had been there before, what we were doing,

  • and just stopped everything and then carried on.

  • And, it went easily and beautifully.

  • I was there just taking and making and moving and shaping

  • instead of just understanding really my place in

  • not just in the country or in a moment as a director

  • but as a human being in a moment with other

  • human beings making something.

  • - I had in the past a similar experience,

  • but a smaller scale.

  • However, I did a movie in the Middle East

  • about the war of Lebanon.

  • I was just wondering being a foreigner coming there

  • how did the people, how did they felt about

  • you making a movie.

  • - How do they feel about you, first.

  • - Me, the thing is that what moves is that I felt that

  • there was a lot of willing to share.

  • They were happy to share their stories.

  • They were happy that we were talking about it.

  • They were very, for them it was a very positive experience

  • from what I received as a director.

  • So I felt welcome talking about the story about

  • other people even if I was like technically a tourist

  • going there, I mean.

  • - Have you ever felt not welcome?

  • - I made a movie once about Montreal, in Montreal,

  • in my home town about a school massacre.

  • And, it was one of the first ones

  • that happened in the history.

  • And, it was a misogynist, it was a young man, crazy,

  • that went to a school Polytechnique, and killed only women.

  • And, that was very horrifying in 1989.

  • And, I decided to make a movie about that

  • and people thought I was, because personally I have

  • things to say about that and a lot, I will say anger

  • and sadness, and strong emotions.

  • And, it was a trauma and sometimes trauma I think,

  • cinema can be very powerful to revisit a trauma

  • and try to let emotions out of it.

  • But, I felt resistance from my community

  • at the beginning, a lot.

  • I was not very welcome to make that movie at the

  • beginning, I must say, in my hometown, yeah.

  • - Were you welcomed by Warner Brothers

  • when you made Wonder Woman?

  • You're entering the studio system,

  • you'd done Independent films.

  • - I was, I mean my story to get in there

  • was a long story because I had first talked

  • to them about it in like 2005.

  • And then, there were so many different chapters

  • of why they were and when they weren't going to make it.

  • And so, it's funny how I feel about these kinds of movies,

  • these big tent pole movies.

  • I feel like it's more like dating than it is

  • like hey, spot my pitch, it's serious.

  • It's a serious commitment.

  • You're seriously signing onto the same thing.

  • So, I had almost done other big movies and had seen

  • very little disagreements can mean, "Wow, I'm not

  • "the right director for you wanna do after all."

  • And so, when I was meeting with them at that point

  • I was really cautious.

  • And at first, when I was first was meeting with them

  • they wanted to do something different.

  • And, I was ah, it's a shame but I don't think

  • we are the right match.

  • You have to do what you have to do

  • and that's not quite right.

  • By the time that they came back and they had realized

  • they wanted to do something which was very similar

  • to what I'd been saying I wanted to do for a long time

  • it was a much different conversation because then

  • they were like, "We really wanna do that now."

  • And, I was like, "You really wanna do this,

  • "because we only have this amount of time

  • "and that's exactly what I would wanna do?"

  • "Yes," so I was extremely welcome.

  • Like, I was extremely welcome, I was very supported

  • because all of that was behind us.

  • (explosions)

  • (gunfire)

  • (explosions)

  • (grunts) (dramatic music)

  • (glass clatters)

  • (dramatic music)

  • (speaking foreign language)

  • (grunts)

  • (Wonder Woman theme music) (shouts)

  • It's the biggest advice I ever give young filmmakers

  • is like pick the right projects and take it seriously

  • because you don't wanna end up in a bad marriage.

  • You don't wanna be like idealistic and say

  • I can change their minds.

  • Maybe can't and if you can't then you're on that ride.

  • So, it was a wonderful experience.

  • I don't think it's always that way, but because of the fact

  • there was such clarity about what we were doing going in.

  • Then, I just did it.

  • - In 25 years I've had one single bad creator experience.

  • It was 1997 at Miramax Dimension.

  • And, never again, I learned a great word was just no.

  • - Right, yeah. - Which is the same

  • in every language.

  • (laughs)

  • And, the thing that I agree completely with what

  • you're saying is those small disagreements, if you're

  • not frontal and immediate it's like adopting a baby tiger.

  • A year later that baby tiger eats your face.

  • (laughs) (mumbles)

  • - I was just raising a flag about this recently

  • when we were talking about different artists

  • to sign on together for the next thing.

  • And, as some little thing came up and one person

  • said one thing and I was saying something different

  • and everybody was like, "But, you guys are saying

  • "the same thing."

  • And I was like, "No, no, no, no we're not, no we're not.

  • "Wait, let's get into this right now."

  • And, we ended up deciding not to work together

  • this person and I because I was like, "But if you really

  • "mean that, if you're always gonna wanna go that way

  • "and I'm always gonna wanna go this way

  • "let's talk about it right now, because like

  • "let's not find ourself on a battlefield down the road."

  • Like, those things are serious, that strategy is like

  • important, because you're always gonna hit those things

  • anyway, but yeah those tiny things turn into giant tigers.

  • Because people mean what they mean, you know.

  • - Yeah, and down the line when given the opportunity

  • to duke it out they will duke it out.

  • Like, it starts super cordial, - Yeah, yeah.

  • - And then later, it's boom.

  • - This was over which film?

  • - It was Mimic, and we started, I mean there was a fantastic

  • moment in which, for those millions of people that

  • haven't seen it it's about giant insects, and there was

  • a moment in which we developed the creature bit by bit over

  • the course of a year and half, something like that.

  • I do the first test and I get a phone call saying,

  • "It looks like a giant bug."

  • I said, "It is a giant bug."

  • (laughs)

  • And, I went, "Oh god, this is going to be interesting,"

  • and it was.

  • It's horrible, the myriad of horrible anecdotes

  • that come from that movie, you know?

  • But, I learned one thing and it was an epiphany.

  • I said, I lost this battle, that battle, but I look

  • at the images and I look at the camera work

  • and I say those I won completely.

  • It looks like I wanted it.

  • The language of camera is the way I wanted it.

  • And, I learned, okay there is a realm that is seldom

  • accessed but in analysis and creation which is the visual.

  • I mean, it's funny we are in an audiovisual medium

  • and we seldom talk about that.

  • But, that's why I'm so fixated on content I'm forming

  • one in the same because I had that horrible epiphany after.

  • - So, thanks to Miramax.

  • - No, I learned a lot from, you learn more from

  • the horror than you learn from the success.

  • (upbeat music)

  • - What did you learn when from directing your first film?

  • - Well, I learned that I could do it.

  • I mean, I thought I could do it but I think you don't

  • quite known until you're on the other end of something

  • like that, that you can do it completely.

  • You sort of have to take the leap and hope that there's

  • a parachute attached.

  • I mean, one part of my experience of being,

  • of learning how to direct was being on film sets

  • as an actor.

  • Also, in particularly early films I made I wrote

  • them and produced them and held a boom

  • and held a camera and did everything because

  • there was nobody to do anything because we had no money.

  • But, I've been so lucky to be on different sets

  • with different directors and DPs and all of these

  • different people who took me under their wing

  • and explained to me what they were doing,

  • how they were lighting a scene, where they were

  • putting the booms, how we were actually getting it.

  • I always hear about guys whose parents got them

  • little Super 8 cameras and they started making films.

  • And, it's not, I mean, I'm sure my parents would have

  • gotten me them if I'd ask for it.

  • But, it wasn't something that you gave girls as much.

  • But, what I did was put on plays with everyone I knew.

  • And, I would put on plays with my friends.

  • - This is a very male oriented business.

  • Did that make it hard to get a very female

  • centered film off the ground with Lady Bird?

  • - Yes. - How hard was it

  • to get off the ground?

  • - Well, I mean, it's a female centered film

  • that is not important with a capital I that people

  • could identify as, "Oh, this is worthy."

  • - It's Wonder Woman.

  • - Or, just that it didn't, it's about people's lives

  • in a quotidian way.

  • It's not about something so large and I feel like

  • as a writer and as a director I'm picking up

  • little tiny pebbles.

  • - [Lady Bird] I wish that you liked me.

  • - Of course I love you.

  • (clicks)

  • - But, do you like me?

  • - I want you to be the very best version of yourself

  • that you can be.

  • - What if this is the best version?

  • - When I was taking the script around and because

  • it's a love story between a mother and a daughter

  • I remember every man I talked to who was raised

  • with sisters or who had a daughter said, "I know this.

  • "That's my wife and my daughter," or "that's my sister

  • "and my mom."

  • And guys who didn't, as they said,

  • "Do women fight like this?"

  • - Oh wow.

  • - I was like, well you've never seen this because

  • why would you know that this is what this relationship is.

  • That being said I mean I did, once it happened,

  • I was not asked to change what the script was at all.

  • I knew that when things came up that were problems

  • or difficulties or something went awry that that was not

  • a deviation from the path, that that was the path.

  • And, I had that, and for me that was very helpful

  • because it didn't feel like, "Oh God, the whole thing

  • "is going to fall apart."

  • It was like, "That is what it's going to be.

  • "We're going to lose that location and this person

  • "it won't work and we're gonna have to move this around."

  • But, in that way I didn't have a moment of like

  • I had no idea that this was going to happen.

  • I had a much, I think, more strong sense of

  • the problems are the road.

  • - That's a Buddhist saying, is the obstacle is the path.

  • - And always, the obstacle gives you solutions that you find

  • are far more interesting - Better.

  • - And far more crazy. - They're there for a reason.

  • - How did that happen on Darkest Hour?

  • - A better example would be the steady came shot

  • in Atonement which was-- - During the battle.

  • - Yeah, on Dunkirk beach which was purely a result of

  • the fact that we only had one day to shoot that scene.

  • And, with Darkest Hour the film was set in May 1940,

  • which was the highest May on record,

  • and we were shooting in December and January.

  • (laughs)

  • And so, we had to find a way of kind of expressing

  • the heat and the claustrophobia.

  • And so, Bruno Delbonnel and I came up with this

  • aesthetic lighting wise which was all about

  • very, very dark shadows and then these extremely

  • hot spots of light coming through the window.

  • Which created the atmosphere of heat and also

  • the claustrophobia and so there were very, very few

  • exterior shots in the movie.

  • - You've wanted this your entire adult life.

  • - No, she's the nursery it's if the public want me.

  • - It's your own party to whom

  • you'll have to prove yourself.

  • - Oh, I'm getting the job only because

  • the ship is sinking.

  • It's not a gift, it's revenge.

  • - Let them see your true qualities, your courage.

  • - My poor judgment. - Your lack of vanity.

  • - Yeah, my iron will. - Your sense of humor.

  • - Ho, ho, ho.

  • (sighs)

  • - Now go. - Oh.

  • - Be. - Be what?

  • - Be yourself.

  • - What was the biggest problem you had

  • to solve on Blade Runner, Denis?

  • - For me, I would say the toughest thing as a director

  • is like because technically it's things are you can do it,

  • you can do everything.

  • The only thing that I cannot do is to act for the actor.

  • And, casting is like

  • massively important, but the first take,

  • first you know you listen.

  • And, 99% of the time it's Christmas,

  • but what happens if it goes wrong?

  • First scene, that's my biggest nightmare as a director.

  • - And, did it happen on Blade Runner?

  • - And it happened that one moment that I said,

  • "Okay, I was wrong," and I was not able

  • to bring that artist where it needed to be.

  • At the end of the day it's okay because

  • I push, I push, I push, I push, I push,

  • and I was able to, but that for me is the nightmare.

  • - Before I directed, I mean, I'd been secretly

  • taking notes all a long time but then I actually

  • had real phone conversations with a lot of directors

  • I know who I've both worked with and just people I know.

  • And, I got direct advice, but some of it was very specific

  • like someone told me if you don't like a shot

  • just start turning off lights because you probably

  • have too many lights on and it gives you a second

  • to figure out what you don't like about it,

  • which I've used.

  • But somebody told me anyone is replaceable if

  • they're hurting the movie.

  • And, you just, if they're hurting it it's

  • you have to. - And, I agree with you.

  • Yah, on a big movie like that I learned

  • that same thing and saw that.

  • It's a massive organism and you have to be--

  • - It's so huge.

  • - You have to be a manager in a whole other level

  • of you have to identify where the problem is.

  • - It's not a troupe.

  • - And deal with because you can't

  • have, there's not enough-- - And, in your case the

  • problem was what?

  • - I mean, I had various little ones, but I had various

  • little interesting massive group dynamics where I was like

  • this whole group of people works together great

  • and now all of a sudden they're all complaining

  • about each other.

  • Where's the, oh it's you, it's you, you have a problem.

  • And, I tried to fix the problem and I couldn't

  • fix the problem and then I had to get rid of that person.

  • But, it's the same thing, I was like, I understand

  • why you're doing it and I feel for you as a person

  • and all of that.

  • But, you're a disruptive personality in the midst

  • of hundreds and hundreds of people who need

  • to go to work everyday and we just don't have time.

  • - I think one of the things that is the hardest thing

  • about being a director that I have is, and a good lesson

  • at one point for me, there's that moment where you

  • at least when you're beginning and you really want to,

  • 'cause you do, it's like a family.

  • And, you want to keep everybody in the family happy.

  • And, you want everybody in the family to

  • take care of each other.

  • You feel very much, especially if you're a producer,

  • directing, and everything, but really you are the one

  • who's taking the place of the head of the family

  • so you better be responsible to everybody,

  • make sure everybody's okay.

  • And, I think one of the hardest things is also

  • your instinct to when you have to push your family, right?

  • So, whether it's you need that one extra hour

  • or you know the actress or actor is in so much pain

  • 'cause they don't want to have to keep doing this,

  • or this person is this, or you're gonna have to push

  • your crew and you know they'd love to say,

  • "Come on, just let us go home."

  • Or not even the length but even just the way you have

  • to push 'em to say "this is not gonna be easy.

  • "We're gonna have to do this,"

  • and they're not gonna like it.

  • And, I think when I first started I was a little bit

  • more aware of not wanting to upset, I wanted everybody

  • to feel like this is the greatest experience

  • and the greatest days of our life, right?

  • And then, I realized, you know what, at the end of the day

  • there can be days that they don't like me because

  • I'd rather them not like me and not wasted five months

  • of their life. - Yeah, yeah.

  • - Because I want them to be proud of the end result.

  • I know that real leadership is pushing people

  • to do something that at the end of the day they're happy

  • they did and they're proud of and they're happy to be

  • a team and work as a team.

  • Not to try-- - Yeah, you're not there

  • to make friends. - You're not there

  • to make friends and that's a very hard thing.

  • - Also, to give people a sense of ownership of the film.

  • - Yeah. - Always, always.

  • - Like, so that it's not my film it's our film

  • and that even the caterers have a sense of ownership

  • and excitement about what they're engaged in.

  • And, if you then manage to create that

  • sense of ownership then they're

  • willing to go that extra. - They wanna work harder.

  • Yeah, exactly, and then they help you.

  • - And, what was the worst day for you.

  • - There's been so many, (laughs)

  • 25 years, it's been 25 years and I've gone through

  • basically everything movies that are 19.5 or 195 million.

  • And, I've gone through all-- - How about The Shape of Water

  • I know you had--

  • - Shape of Water, I'll tell you

  • one, everything, everything. - Sandstorms.

  • - I had a first day that I cannot speak about.

  • (laughs)

  • First day, second day worse.

  • And it went, of 65 days we had 64 really difficult days

  • and one day was easy.

  • But, we had a great example, there's a moment where

  • Michael Shannon parks in front of the cinema,

  • stops, runs up the stairs.

  • We do a Texas switch 'cause the staircase was fake

  • and I have another guy dressed like him on the

  • other staircase which was separate and I do a Texas switch

  • and he goes to the door.

  • And I said, "I got it," and my DP says, like all DPs

  • always say, "Get another one."

  • I said, "I got it."

  • He said, "Well, take two." I go, "okay."

  • And, we had scouted and there was a great crane

  • I wanted to do, a techno that a post was in the way

  • I couldn't do.

  • I said, "No, let's move to the crane."

  • He says, "No, get another one."

  • We go do the second one and this is one of those days,

  • many things happened that day, this is one of them,

  • Shannon parks the car, gets out.

  • The car stays in drive, it's an old car 1962,

  • so anyway the car continues going.

  • Michael runs to try to stop the car.

  • The car drags Michael, - Oh God.

  • - In the middle of the rain.

  • Michael lets go, the car hits the first post,

  • a post destroys it, a shower of sparks,

  • but also the second post is coming straight

  • for the video assist.

  • And, everybody just says, "Run."

  • Now, I've never run for anything in my life.

  • (laughs)

  • I am 53 I have never, I don't know what that is.

  • And, I go, "I'm gonna die."

  • And, the car stops on the second and final post

  • which is anchored to the ground.

  • And, everybody's in despair and horrified.

  • Michael is, "Oh, what has happened?"

  • And I go and say, "Now, I can make my shot."

  • (laughs)

  • - 'Cause he got rid of the post.

  • (laughs)

  • - So, was that the one good day?

  • (laughs)

  • - That day turned good.

  • There were many, many, the first day was brutal.

  • - That's crazy. - What was the toughest

  • day for you on Wonder Woman?

  • - I think it was, I mean, oh you know what

  • it pretty much was that it's funny I really believed

  • in shooting on location.

  • And so, at the end of the movie there's a farewell

  • between Diana and Steve Trevor that I insisted upon

  • shooting on a real air base in the middle of the winter

  • in the weather because I just know what happens on set.

  • What happens on set is you end up turning the fan down

  • because it's messing up sound and then people are standing

  • and it's just not gonna be the same.

  • And, it had these incredible, this airbase had these

  • incredible bunkers for all the planes.

  • And, shot on film I knew that we would never

  • quite know what that would look like if we tried

  • to replicate it digitally in post.

  • So, it was shooting in the middle of the night

  • in the cold with Gal Gadot in a Wonder Woman costume.

  • And, it was such an important performance and it was

  • exactly what you were talking about where it was like,

  • and I go through this all the time where I'm sort of like

  • and there's something almost parental about being

  • the director sometimes where you're like,

  • I have to be the one.

  • I don't wanna be here either, I wanna go home, too.

  • But, I have to be the one that makes this worl

  • because this is really important to whole movie

  • and if we don't do this then all of us will have done

  • all of this other work and it won't have paid off.

  • So, I have to be the one, you've got to go

  • back out there again.

  • Doing it to actors when they're cold and uncomfortable

  • is very difficult.

  • But, it was a hard scene to get and it was freezing cold

  • and Gal was literally nearly like losing it.

  • She was like shaking and it was like, we gotta go,

  • we gotta do it.

  • (vocalizes) take the coat off and she's standing there

  • and Chris is tired and I think that was the hardest day

  • just because I really hated doing it to everybody,

  • but it just really mattered.

  • And, I knew if we tried to do pick ups later

  • it was never going to be the same.

  • - Denis, on Blade Runner what were you most

  • pleased about in that film?

  • - Actors, I'm very proud of the actors,

  • and more specifically young actresses.

  • There are four of them that did, I think, a fantastic job.

  • And Ryan, Ryan was my muse.

  • - Where were you, Clanton?

  • Must have been brutal.

  • - Plan on taking me in, huh,

  • take a look inside?

  • - Mister Morton, if taking you in is an option

  • (thuds)

  • I would much prefer that to the alternative.

  • - Something that deeply touched me was Harrison Ford

  • because I felt that, you cannot fake that excitement

  • or I felt he was really sincerely happy to be there

  • with us working at five a.m. in the dark in the water.

  • I felt his passion alive I felt that

  • his fire was still there.

  • And, you know what, Harrison Ford was one of

  • my childhood heroes and I deeply loved him.

  • And, there's a saying never meet your heroes, isn't there?

  • And that was, for me, it just increased my admiration

  • and my love for him because sincerely he's

  • a committed artist, engaged.

  • He was very generous.

  • So, honestly, that was I would say--

  • - Among your heroes, filmic heroes, who've you met

  • who surprised you or was different than you'd expected?

  • - Can we get back to me?

  • (laughs)

  • - You know I can't do that.

  • - Who was different than I expected?

  • I don't know, maybe because I grew up in this business

  • a little bit with my father I early on realized

  • how average everybody is in this business.

  • I never, I grew up thinking there's nothing unbelievably

  • special or unbelievably different about these people

  • except for sometimes they think they

  • are unbelievably special.

  • So, I think it's just whether you're pleasantly surprised

  • that they are other, just great people.

  • I mean, I tend to find that when you meet people

  • like who's a great actor like a Daniel Day Lewis

  • he's a great person.

  • And, I don't know if it's a coincidence that

  • some people who come across a certain way

  • or make films with a lot of humanity are people

  • with a lot of humanity.

  • Then there are really complex artists that maybe

  • are complex people but they're work's really interesting.

  • And so, I don't know, I think I just kind of see it all

  • kind of for what it is.

  • I'm happy to be able to be a part of it but I also

  • have a kind of, I just see everybody at this table

  • as like moms, dads, people, women, men.

  • And then, what comes out of us is the best it can be.

  • - Has anybody given you a piece of advice

  • that you carry with you in filmmaking?

  • - Shoot the wide shot first.

  • (laughs)

  • I can forget to do that as well and then I just

  • shoot myself into a corner.

  • Oh, I should have just done the wide shot.

  • - Do you storyboard?

  • - Yeah, I do love story boarding.

  • - Because you're so visual and your shots are amazing.

  • - One other thing that surprised me when I meet

  • like great actors is that they want direction.

  • And, I'm always surprised. - Yeah, they do.

  • - 'Cause like Gary Oldman for me was a hero,

  • like Harrison Ford was to you when I was growing up.

  • And, I thought, "Well, I'll just have Gary will be

  • "on set and he'll do his thing and I'll just arrange

  • "everything around him."

  • And actually to discover that someone

  • like Gary wants direction.

  • - What was the fundamental direction you gave him?

  • - Energy, pace, the rhythm of his character.

  • I talk a lot about rhythm when I'm directing.

  • I find that film is most similar to music

  • than any other art form.

  • And so, I'm always talking about rhythm and almost

  • conducting a scene so that they know

  • where the rise is and where the fall off is and so on.

  • It's almost, yeah, it's almost like conducting

  • rather than going, talking about back stories

  • and stuff like that which I think is

  • fairly useless. - Did you talk a lot

  • about Churchill himself?

  • - No, we talked about this character who, for my mind,

  • was entirely fictional.

  • I wasn't really ever interested in the icon of Churchill.

  • And, one of the problems with making British period films

  • is that they're generally about posh people.

  • I don't identify-- - Well, Churchill's posh.

  • - He's very posh, but so I tried to just find

  • the humanity in them.

  • I'm not keen on method actors.

  • I'm a bit of a method director in the sense that

  • I have to feel their emotions and I have to identify

  • very, very closely with the character

  • and see the world as they see the world.

  • And so really, those characters are always

  • an expression of myself.

  • In fact, every character is an expression of myself

  • because that's how I come to understand them

  • and then I can love them because without understanding

  • you can't love.

  • And so, I try to kind of figure out how,

  • looking for the similarities, finding out how

  • Churchill and I are the same.

  • (laughs)

  • Which is ridiculous, ridiculous but I mean, for me

  • the film is about doubt, right?

  • It's about self-doubt and its about which is,

  • I just had an experience of extreme self-doubt.

  • - When was that?

  • - I made a film called Pan and it lost about 100 million

  • and it was universally slated by the critics.

  • And, I thought, I don't understand this world anymore

  • and I don't know if I want to be a part of it.

  • - But, you take it that deep.

  • - Yeah, yeah of course. - You do take it that deep.

  • I mean, people think that you move on and if you're

  • worth anything you don't move on.

  • You go into a deep

  • dark place and mourn. - Because our filmmaking

  • is an expression of our soul.

  • I mean, it's who we are at the most fundamental.

  • It's the closest thing to my essence there is really.

  • Because I'm not very good at expressing that

  • in other ways.

  • I'm not very good at talking to people.

  • I'm not very good at dinner parties.

  • That's where I allow myself to be revealed.

  • - Well, you must have things that you, like with critics,

  • who didn't like and it almost made you, if you sure

  • you loved it.

  • There's the noise of the crowd and then there's

  • the singular voice and is there that too,

  • have you had that? - When has it, for instance,

  • made you feel stronger about your convictions?

  • - I had that on a film I did By The Sea

  • which I don't think is a perfect film, by any means,

  • but I had moment when I put it forward, even when

  • we were making it people were saying,

  • "well people aren't gonna understand this," or

  • "this isn't gonna be taken this way," or

  • "this is more like this thing and that's not gonna be

  • "what people want, or they're not gonna."

  • But, I think I needed after Unbroken to

  • just be an artist.

  • It was like a talk with myself like don't lose

  • your sense of, you gotta do your best and do

  • what you feel and don't become safe, don't become

  • safe from this.

  • If you become safe from this you're never

  • gonna do anything worth anything, you know?

  • And, find some kind of, find your resolve in this moment

  • and don't and turn it into, I don't know.

  • - Patty, have you ever had a moment where you

  • lost your resolve, felt like leaving the business?

  • - All the time, I mean, no I really don't but I always

  • am like I find, it's funny because it's interesting.

  • I never decided to be a director.

  • It was never like, "I wanna be a director."

  • It's all the trappings of being, I have to be a director

  • to do what I want to do which is I was at painting school

  • and my first love with music.

  • And, I was always listening to music and then

  • it finally came together when I took

  • an experimental film course.

  • And, I was like, "That's it."

  • I couldn't get enough emotion into painting.

  • And, I didn't want to play music, but that was my thing.

  • And then finally, I was like, "Whoa, I love it."

  • So, I had to become a director to do it.

  • I'd never like looked at the job.

  • And so, I've definitely had many moments where

  • I was like, (groans) like you could just

  • restore antiques or something.

  • Like, are you sure you wanna?

  • And, I'm always surprised at it at every step.

  • But, I mean it was a period of time not long

  • right before I made Wonder Woman that the bottom

  • had fallen out of the indie film market completely.

  • So, the films that I had ready to go nobody

  • wanted to make.

  • They didn't even wanna read them.

  • And, it was IPs and I meeting on IPs.

  • And then, it was, and there was a period of time there

  • that I was like, (groans) "I just wanna leave Hollywood."

  • Like I don't know that I'm gonna, it's ironic that

  • I turned around and then made Wonder Woman.

  • But, at the moment I was like this might not be for me.

  • Maybe I need to move to Europe or something because

  • I don't know how to fit myself into this and I can't,

  • they don't wanna see my film and like

  • they don't even wanna read.

  • And so yeah, I definitely had a pretty dark moment

  • right before I made Wonder Woman where I was like

  • I'm having, where, why, I can't find the fit.

  • (upbeat music)

  • - [Stephen] If you left film what would you do?

  • - I wouldn't leave film, first of all, because

  • I love, I like truly love it so much and it just

  • gets better all the time.

  • The more I'm like, (vocalizes) like that,

  • like finally like now I know how to, oh now I can,

  • it just gets better the more facile your skills get

  • and the more you can try new things in different ways

  • it gets better.

  • But, I'd be a psychologist.

  • - [Joe] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

  • - 'Cause it's my interest in art and film

  • is greatly fueled on the other side by my curiosity

  • about people which is why I'm interested

  • in telling their stories whether it be about

  • why you would become that serial killer

  • or what it would feel like to have tremendous power.

  • - Greta, what about you what would you do if you left film?

  • - Oh, well my first love was actually theater

  • more than anything else, the theater and dance.

  • And, I didn't know movies were made by people.

  • I thought they were handed down from gods.

  • I mean, I genuinely, I knew, I knew people must have

  • made them but I didn't know who they were.

  • And, it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized

  • that oh these are made by people.

  • And, part of it was I started watching films that

  • weren't products, they had personality behind them.

  • And, I hadn't really seen quite that.

  • Like, in New York there's a Film Forum, an Anthology

  • Film Archives, a Museum of Moving Image and I started

  • to see these very particular strange movies

  • that I wasn't totally sure what to make of.

  • But, they felt like-- - Like what?

  • - I remember the first time I saw Tropical Malady

  • the Apichatpong film-- - Weerasethakul, yeah.

  • - Yeah, and I thought it made me angry because

  • it's a bifurcated structure and I'd never seen

  • anything like it.

  • And, I was like, "What is this?

  • "It's clear to me that it's clear to him but

  • "I can't figure it out."

  • And, I went back again, and again and I had

  • the same experience with we were talking about

  • Claire Denis' film Beau Travail, I sort of

  • couldn't, but I suddenly saw it as art as made by people.

  • But yeah, theater and I also think, I mean,

  • I remember reading about so why are there so many

  • more computer programmers that are men than women?

  • There's nothing, originally computer programmers

  • were women because nobody thought it was very prestigious.

  • And then later, it became more men and part of it was

  • in the 70s and 80s all the computers were marketed

  • towards young men like, "Get your son this computer."

  • And then, they would learn how to program so that

  • by the time they got into college they already

  • had this basis.

  • And so, when women would be in programming classes and

  • they'd come from the math department or whatever they would

  • be like way behind because they hadn't had the tools.

  • - And, sometimes you spoke of psychology,

  • what is, do you think, the most crucial quality

  • that a director has to have?

  • - [Joe] He has to think in film.

  • - Yes. - Yeah.

  • - I just said he has to think it film, that's interesting.

  • A director has to think in film.

  • And, I think that's rare.

  • I don't thnk a lot of people do, but it's not about

  • thinking visually or thinking dramatically.

  • It's literally about seeing the world as film,

  • as an audio visual time based experience.

  • - Ultimately fearless, I think.

  • I think the same thing is not be afraid of

  • because sometimes the most brilliant things are

  • the things that are closest to being ridiculous.

  • And then, if you don't know when you have to not give in

  • and you have to pursue it.

  • When people talk about vision, which I think is

  • a very strange word, that ayahuasca may provoke

  • but not this industry.

  • You just know that you're gonna have to fight

  • for that second ending.

  • - It's funny, I was gonna say responsible vision.

  • 'Cause I think you do have to have like,

  • I see how this film could work out, but it has to have,

  • you have to have some responsibility to like

  • the realities of filmmaking and how that's gonna work

  • and bravery and knowing that you're being brave

  • and giving it enough room to have life.

  • So, I think, but a plan, I think you do have to have a plan

  • because I was amazed, the most interesting thing

  • in doing such a huge movie is that there really are,

  • there's a huge insurance policy on you

  • and it's like you cannot ride a bike because if you

  • fall off that bike.

  • And, I had a couple moments there where I was like,

  • "Oh my god, I'm the only person who understands

  • "how 17,000 pieces that just happened in a row

  • "are gonna fit back together again."

  • And, it's like you have to, you have to have

  • that ability at some point to be like,

  • "Oh, I remember on the day we dropped that line"

  • because then I said, "Oh, that's fine I'll do it

  • "by doing that shot over there."

  • I don't know that I told anybody that.

  • I know that in the edit room, "Oh, but you know what

  • "we're gonna do it this other way."

  • Anyway, it would be fine somebody else would come in

  • and take over the movie.

  • But, it's like.

  • - You're talking about practical and artistic

  • responsibilities. - See it, having

  • a vision and keeping it whole.

  • - And now, I wanna talk about a different responsibility

  • Kazan, many years ago, wrote a pamphlet about

  • what a director needed.

  • He need to know architecture. He needed to know art.

  • He needed to know literature, this, this, that.

  • And, I showed it to a friend of mine who is blacklisted

  • and he said the only thing Kazan doesn't say

  • is he needs to know ethics.

  • Society, at the moment, especially today

  • we're dealing with all sorts of ethical issues

  • particularly about harassment.

  • What is the director's responsibility ethically?

  • - You just have to be a good human being.

  • You can demand anything you want professionally.

  • I think that you can be irrational professionally

  • and say when we're executing this operation

  • you need to do what you do or you're not part of the team.

  • You can be that hard.

  • For example, when firing someone, which I've done many times

  • I insist on doing it myself.

  • I want you to know the studio's not forcing me.

  • I want you to know a producer didn't, I'm doing it.

  • The same goes for ethics.

  • If you tolerate something on your set from whoever it is,

  • it can be a star, it can be a super producer,

  • and you see it and you allow it, you're more than

  • a father figure.

  • If you direct properly you're are somebody--

  • - As a man I would say exactly the word that would

  • come to my mind is father.

  • I mean, you are responsible for the people around you.

  • You are supposedly the one who is directing them

  • and trying to create a safe environment,

  • and a creative environment.

  • And, as man it's the thing that can always my men

  • the way I behave with it is as a father.

  • - And you don't back, I mean, I've had

  • very imposing executives, or studio heads,

  • stars, imposing physically and in terms of

  • their stature in the business.

  • And, what you would normally back down in a traffic accident

  • you don't back down in a movie set.

  • You go at it and you go at it--

  • - You're talking about ethics, not just what

  • you want artistically.

  • - No, no what you want artistically then the conversation

  • is if you don't have anything to say that is crucial to you

  • and that you think some people may walk out healed

  • in some way or awoken in some way or aware in some way

  • then it shouldn't be, and it doesn't matter if

  • its a piece of fiction, it's a genre or not,

  • however it's viewed you're saying it because

  • you do think that film needs to exist.

  • So, ethically, overtly you don't have to respond

  • to the pulsations of the moment but I think that

  • all of use at this table, all the movies that were made

  • were made specifically for now for one or a different

  • reasons because we feel that they were needed now.

  • I feel the urgent political human need that you

  • can see the order and see the beauty and the

  • divine in the other as opposed to fear an the hatred

  • and it was urgent.

  • I mean, this movie was so personal to me,

  • doing The Shape of Water, that sometimes there are

  • two scenes I cannot discuss without weeping.

  • (majestic music)

  • (hisses)

  • (dramatic music) (vocalizes)

  • - [Stephen] Why is that movie

  • so important to you personally?

  • - It was a moment like Joe, a moment in which

  • I honestly said, "Is there a sense in doing this?"

  • And I think that it's a medium that is not

  • discussed in the way I remember discussing it

  • when I was learning it in terms of it's the one

  • generator of mythological images we have.

  • Because, long art TV is fantastic but it does not

  • generate those images that have the heft and the weight

  • and the authority that the cinema generates.

  • I'm the biggest fan of The Sopranos or Deadwood,

  • or you name and characters and arc as close

  • to literature as you can get.

  • But, I cannot quote more than two images.

  • I can define the composition, exact lensing

  • and position of images of Kubrick, of Ophuls,

  • of Visconti time and time again.

  • And, I think we need to discuss film formally

  • because of that.

  • And, it came to that crossroads and I really, as a man

  • of a certain heft and age, I said, "Okay, I've done nine

  • "movies that in some way or another rephrased my childhood.

  • "I wanna do one where I talk like an adult

  • "and about things that are urgent for me.

  • "And, if it doesn't work, honestly, I'm gonna read more

  • "and take long walks on the beach."

  • - Some of those people have to do unpleasant things

  • to get a performance.

  • Is that acceptable?

  • - It depends what kind because there are very clear lines.

  • To push an actor to do work that they're capable of, yes.

  • To inflict trauma, absolutely not, absolutely not.

  • And, I've had this argument with other people before

  • where it's like, I'm not here to bring trauma

  • into people's life.

  • And so, I feel that's very ethically, they didn't

  • sign on to be traumatized.

  • So, my job as a director is to conjure the best

  • out of other people within what they have already

  • to work with and maybe new scenarios like cold.

  • Or like, yeah, maybe I am pushing them in towards cold

  • and things like that.

  • But, I've always thought that that was not for me.

  • I've heard about those things about lying to people

  • or really tricking people or messing with them

  • and I'm like, that's not cool for me.

  • There's a line in the sand of where I'm willing to go

  • to bring beautiful things into the world

  • because of how beautiful can they be?

  • - Are you willing, however, to inflict harm upon yourself?

  • - Yes, apparently with great (mumbles).

  • - Yeah. - A lot.

  • - I would croak, I would.

  • - Would or have? Have you harmed yourself?

  • - I think I have. - How?

  • - You don't get this big by not harming yourself.

  • I mean, it is neurosis. You fray your nerves everyday.

  • They're raw, I mean you fray, which means that

  • 90% of your personal life will be unbalanced.

  • And, you're always on the edge and the more you do it

  • the less you'll get this, but you need to,

  • there are things everyday that you swear you will die for.

  • - Do you agree, Angelina?

  • - Well, yes that you can take on a lot.

  • I think I'm certainly that person.

  • I never want to, I'll push myself to the ground,

  • but I'm pretty thoughtful of other people and their limits.

  • And maybe that's part of leadership, too,

  • is feeling like I better be able to do it 10 times harder

  • in order to have a right to ask somebody else.

  • - I used to think that directors, people who were directors

  • had a certain personality and that's why they were directors

  • that they had this sort of relentlessness and they had

  • this and then I realized that the job makes you that way.

  • It makes you, if you have that connection and it feels

  • essential and the thing that you're doing it creates

  • something that you didn't know that you had

  • or it was dormant somehow because there's no way to do it

  • if you don't have that.

  • I don't know how you do it.

  • - I think you've got to have that inclination

  • in the first place.

  • You've got to be a bit mad, you've got to

  • be a bit obsessive. - You've got to be a bit mad.

  • - Yes, for me, I was thinking since you talked about

  • your bad experience I was, for me doing Blade Runner

  • was the other way around.

  • I mean, I do it because I deeply loved the first movie

  • so much I don't want somebody else to fuck it up.

  • I wanted to give everything knowing that

  • I would probably be banned from cinematic community about

  • everybody is gonna hate me because I dared to do that.

  • But, there was like a strong call to do it (mumbles)

  • and I agreed before I was able to do it because

  • I made peace with the idea that it might be my last film

  • the doing this.

  • And, it made sense to me because I loved that story so much

  • but that to make the peace with the idea that

  • I'm going to be hated and just do it by pure love of cinema.

  • And then, that freedom that it's like it was so great

  • creatively, but it's like the reverse engineered.

  • Fearing, not fearing making peace with what

  • could be the worst.

  • - But, we have a right to fail.

  • - Yes. - As an artist

  • you have a right to fail and that's really difficult

  • within this industry when there's so much money involved.

  • I think it was Beckett who said that, and it's

  • much easier in playwriting. - The last like waiting

  • for Goddard. - Yeah right.

  • - Fail again, fail better.

  • - Yeah, exactly and so that is always the thing--

  • - That unbelievable line.

  • - That line is always the thing that drives me forward.

  • And, there's reason why one keeps making films

  • 'cause you're always gonna fail, and it's a practice.

  • And, that's the important thing is the practice

  • is the process way more important than the product.

  • And, in that process the kindness is the most

  • important thing in talking about the ethical.

  • Everyone's going through something and as long as

  • you're just kind as much of the time as possible

  • and the films are made to generate kindness.

  • I mean, I think all the films around this table

  • are, to some extent, about kindness and the aspiration

  • to create more kindness in the world and that's it.

  • And so, if you're not kind to the people you work with

  • then you're just a hypocrite and there's no point

  • in doing it.

  • - Last question, very quickly, speed round.

  • If you had no limit in budget, in time,

  • in historical moment.

  • - That would be suicide.

  • - But you had a camera.

  • - Limits are what you gives you freedom.

  • - Yeah. - You cannot be free

  • on freedom. - Where would you want

  • to put a camera to record something.

  • - In the Socratic Dialogs he has these dialogs

  • with Diotima who was a prostitute in Ancient Greece.

  • The only people who could read and write who were women

  • were court whores because they had to be good to talk to

  • in addition to everything else and wives weren't

  • allowed to read or write.

  • I would have loved to have heard what those women

  • had to say.

  • - When I made Monster I ended up getting very sucked

  • into the prison world and so the thing that I was

  • trying to make those years that I couldn't get

  • my film made was a movie that took place in prison,

  • in the California Prison System.

  • And, I ended up getting very sucked into that world

  • and like so just for those reasons alone I would put

  • a camera inside of the worst, highest level

  • security yard in prison and let people watch.

  • Because it's such a, I would love for the world

  • to understand better how people are not what

  • you think they are.

  • And, that was thing that was so incredible about

  • being there was like it's just not scary enough.

  • You want it to be really scary, but it's not that scary.

  • It's just human beings stuck,

  • stuck and scared, and sad, and desperate,

  • and lonely and pretending to be hard because

  • that's the only integrity that they have.

  • And, one out of every thousands of them are actually crazy.

  • - In the eyes of an angel, which is I guess Wings of Desire,

  • but I'd continue that experiment.

  • - It would have changed the fate of the world

  • if you had followed Jesus with a camera.

  • (laughs)

  • - What were those missing years?

  • - There was like the thing that you say,

  • "Okay, that's the truth."

  • - [Patty] That's a good one.

  • - It's really difficult, I've been honestly really angry

  • about how much has been seen on film from

  • chemical attacks in Syria to the Rohingya being displaced

  • to people do see things inside some prisons

  • to people seeing people abuse other people

  • and I see very little movement and very little change,

  • very little calls to action.

  • And so, I think we're more aware than ever about

  • what's going on around the world and bearing witness

  • to it with cameras and yet people seem more distracted

  • by kind of silly things they can watch.

  • And, if they see it they can kind of dismiss it.

  • So, I don't know, I mean if there's something,

  • as you said, that could change, if there's something

  • that could make people feel united, maybe it is

  • a camera on the moon.

  • Maybe it is something that takes us out of ourself

  • and somehow sheds a bigger light on something

  • that unites us all.

  • - Guillermo. (sighs)

  • - There are certain moments of my childhood

  • too personal to share, I would love to have a look

  • with more accuracy than memory allows.

  • And, I would love to see the people that I have made

  • into a theater with a more kind eye, a more objective eye

  • on myself in those moments in a more objective eye.

  • And, they would be, perhaps, the key to solving

  • the puzzle that I've been trying to solve for 43 years.

  • - Don't solve it 'cause the films we get.

  • - That's good, I-- - This is

  • really extraordinary and you're all lovely, too,

  • which is nice.

  • Thank you so much, that's the end of the roundtable.

  • - Thank you very much. - Thank you.

  • - Drinks for everyone. - You're so nice.

  • (upbeat music)

  • - Ready. - Okay, quiet on set.

  • - And, I look down the lens.

  • - Yeah. - Let's do it.

  • (clicks)

  • (laughs)

  • - Hi, I'm Margo Robbie. - Bryan Cranston.

  • - Robert Pattinson. - John Boyega.

  • - I'm Sam Rockwell. - Willem Dafoe.

  • - Emma Stone. - Allion Janney.

  • - Guillermo del Toro and thank you for watching.

  • - Thank you. - Thank you for watching.

  • - Thanks for watching The Hollywood Reporter.

  • - The Hollywood Reporter. - The Hollywood Reporter.

  • - On YouTube. - On YouTube.

(uptempo music)

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