English. I'm Rob.

Neil: And I' m Neil.

Rob: Now Neil, can you remember the first

time you ever used the World Wide Web

or as we often call it, the internet,

and what you used it for?

Neil: Oh that's a good question. I do

remember. And nothing really changes

does it? Because I looked up pictures of

cats!

Rob: Cats! Very useful, anyway do you

think the internet has generally been

positive or negative for the world?

Neil: Wow, that's a big question. A huge

question. I don't know if I can answer that.

Rob: Well one person who perhaps can

answer it, is the man who invented it -

British computer scientist Tim Berners-Lee.

We'll find out what he thinks has

become of his 'child' shortly but before

that, a question for you all.

When did Berners-Lee first suggest the

idea for what would become the World

Wide Web? Was it?

a) 1985, b) 1989, c) 1991.

Neil: Tricky but I think it's earlier than

people think so I'm going to go for 1985.

Rob: Well that was a long time ago but

we'll reveal the answer a little later in the

programme. I think it's true to say that the

internet has been one of, if not the most

important technological developments

perhaps of all time. Would you agree Neil?

Neil: Well it's hard to imagine living

without it. Not impossible, but not nearly

as convenient.

Rob: These days we take the internet for

granted. We share our lives on social

media and not just with friends and

family. And that isn't always a positive

thing according to the father of the

internet, Tim Berners-Lee. In a recent

BBC Tech Tent programme he talked

about his concerns with the internet and

particularly the companies that control its

information. Companies which he calls

'internet giants'. What does he say he

thought these companies had to do?

Tim Berners-Lee: Initially I felt the main

thing an internet giant had to do was just

to be neutral, just be a platform and

humanity, once connected by

technology, will do wonderful things. And

clearly it doesn't work like that. If you

connect humanity via Wikipedia then they

do produce, in general, wonderful things.

If you connect people by social network

where they have anonymity, then it can

bring out the very nastiest of people.

Rob: So what did he say he thought these

internet giants had to do?

Neil: He said that he thought initially, that

they just had to be neutral. Initially means

'at first', 'in the beginning' and it also

suggests that later he changed his mind.

Anyway, he said that he thought they just

had to be neutral. Neutral here means

that they didn't need to do anything, they

didn't need to control the internet or

information. He thought it would be a tool

to connect people and ideas and information

and it would be wonderful.

Rob: But it's not all good, is it?

Neil: No. He does say that giving people

access to sources of information is

generally a good thing but that when it

comes to social networks,

social media, people have anonymity.

Rob: Anonymity?

Neil: Yes. It means that on the internet

people can hide their true identity or

personality. Some people write things that

they would never say to someone in

person because they think there

will be no consequences. Berners-Lee

says anonymity can bring out the nastiest

side of people. People saying horrible and

terrible things to each other.

Rob: Berners-Lee does have some

suggestions for how this could be

changed. how this could be changed. And

it's based on the idea of likes and shares,

which he calls kudos. What's his suggestion?

Tim Berners-Lee: The different social

networks and different platforms are

in different situations and in some cases

they have acknowledged there

is an issue. I think they realise that the

issue could perhaps be hugely ameliorated by

tweaking the way the thing works by

changing the way retweets are

propagated or changing the way

people get kudos - give them more kudos

for being constructive for example.

Rob: So how does he think companies

could address the problem?

Neil: Well, he says that some of the social

networks have agreed that there is a

problem and they know what could

improve it.

Rob: He didn't use the word improve

though, did he?

Neil: No he actually used the rather formal

verb ameliorate, which means 'to improve

or make something better'.

Rob: So how does he suggest the

problem could be ameliorated?

Neil: By tweaking the way in which people

give or receive kudos. Tweaking means

'making a small change to the way

something works'. Much of what

happens on the internet is driven by

our desire to get likes and shares – this

is the kudos that Berners-Lee talks about.

He feels that tweaking this could lead to

a better experience. For example, getting

more kudos for constructive or positive actions.

Rob: Mmm, interesting – but I wonder

who would decide if something is

constructive?

Neil: Well that's another big question for

another day, I guess.

Rob: For now though, let's have the

answer to our small question. In what

year did Berners-Lee present the idea for

what would become the World Wide Web?

The options were a) 1985,

b)1989 or c) 1991. It was in fact 1989.

Now before we go let's have a quick recap

of today's vocabulary.

Neil: Initially – means 'at first - in the

beginning'. Then we had neutral.

Rob: In this case it meant 'not controlling'

or 'not taking any action to control'.

Neil: Then there was the noun anonymity

which is the state of having a hidden

identity or personality.

Rob: Next, to ameliorate a situation is to

make it better.

Neil: To tweak something is to make a

small change to the way something

works.

Rob: And then we had kudos. Kudos is

praise and appreciation for something

you've done.

Neil: Well kudos to you Rob for today's

programme. Thank you very much.

Rob: Well, thank you Neil and thank you

everyone for listening. That's all we have

time for today

but you can, find us on Facebook,

Twitter, Instagram and YouTube and of course

our website bbclearningenglish.com! Bye for now.

Neil: Thanks for joining us and goodbye.