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  • BARACK OBAMA: The U.S has the most durable economy in the world.

  • HILLARY CLINTON: I don't think President Obama gets the credit he deserves for digging us

  • out of the ditch that the republicans dropped us into.

  • DONALD TRUMP: We have other countries basically sucking away our money, sucking away our jobs.

  • BERNIE SANDERS: Anyone in this country who works 40 hours a week should not live in poverty.

  • IF you want a job in Elkhart County, you can find a job.

  • Its a good place to live for people who need a job who are not college-educated.

  • People tend to live paycheck to paycheck. The foodstamps that we get are not enough

  • to feed a family.

  • Most of our society thinks they deserve something. The Government tends to give too much to people

  • who don't want to work. I think we're more divided than we've ever been and the people

  • running for office now--who in the world are you going to vote for?

  • ANNOUNCER: This is a PBS NEWSHOUR special -- Questions for President Obama.

  • Now, from the Lerner Theatre in Elkhart, Indiana, PBS NewsHour co-anchor, Gwen Ifill.

  • GWEN IFILL: Good evening.

  • And welcome to Elkhart, Indiana, as we sit down with President Obama and the residents

  • of this community to discuss their concerns, look back on his time in office and assess

  • the feverish campaign to succeed him.

  • This marks the president's fifth visit to the once and again RV capital of the world

  • -- a small city where the unemployment rate hit 19.6 percent his first year in office

  • and now has dropped to about 4 percent.

  • But this White House isn't getting any credit for that turnaround. Residents here voted

  • for Ted Cruz in this year's primaries and Mitt Romney by two to one in 2012. Even when

  • President Obama won Indiana in 2008, just as the economy was crashing, Elkhart went

  • with John McCain.

  • So what gives?

  • We've asked some of the people who live here to join us on the stage of the beautiful Lerner

  • Theatre here downtown for an intimate conversation.

  • But first, the president of the United States, Barack Obama.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Hi, Gwen.

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Thank you.

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Thank you.

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: How are you?

  • GWEN IFILL: Hi, Mr. President.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: It's good to see you.

  • GWEN IFILL: Thank you.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Hello.

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Thank you.

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Thank you, guys.

  • GWEN IFILL: Our residents have been waiting faithfully, patiently and eagerly to see you

  • today.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, I'm eager to see them.

  • And this is a beautiful theatre.

  • GWEN IFILL: It is beautiful.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Which got converted. Congratulations on a wonderful venue.

  • IFILL: Some of them voted for you, some of them didn't. We'll be talking about that...

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, that's what we’d expect.

  • GWEN IFILL: -- in a moment.

  • But I first want to ask by talking to you a little bit about this campaign.

  • What do you think it means when you hear the wordslet's make America great again”?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I think America is pretty great. And, you know, it's interesting,

  • I do a lot of commencement speeches this time of year. In fact, tomorrow, I'm going to be

  • going to the Air Force Academy to deliver a commencement for the second time there.

  • And I always remind young people that despite all the challenges that we face right now,

  • if you had the choice to be born in -- in any one period of time in -- in our history,

  • and you didn't know ahead of time whether you were going to be rich or poor, black or

  • white, male or female, you know, you just had to guess on what moment do you have a

  • best chance of succeeding, it actually would be now.

  • That America is the strongest country on Earth. Its economy is the most durable on Earth.

  • You know, we are a -- a country that has incredible diversity, people are striving, working hard,

  • creating businesses. We've got the best universities in the world, the best scientists.

  • You know, so we've got -- we've got some challenges and we've just come through a very rough stretch

  • as a consequence of the financial crisis, but overall, not only are we recovered from

  • the crisis that we had, but we're well positioned to do extraordinarily well going forward as

  • long as we make some good decisions.

  • GWEN IFILL: And yet, many people, including probably some folks in this room...

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Yes.

  • GWEN IFILL: -- think the deficits have gone up and the jobless rate has gone up. And,

  • in fact, that their lives have not improved.

  • How -- in fact, we have your nominee for the -- the presumptive nominee for the Republican

  • Party saying, Donald Trump, saying this -- America is a third world nation.

  • How do you persuade -- or I suppose, how does your likely Democratic successor, possible,

  • persuade anybody that's not true?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, it's important you said my successor, because Michelle would

  • be very upset if she thought I was running again.

  • Look, you just look at the evidence here in Elkhart. As you mentioned in the introduction,

  • when I took office, this was the first city I came to. And unemployment about a month

  • after I took office, a month and a half after I took office, was almost 20 percent. One

  • out of 10 people were behind on their mortgage or in foreclosure.

  • Today, the unemployment rate is around 4 percent. It's only about one in 30 people who are behind

  • on their mortgage. The RV industry, which is, uh, central to Elkhart, is on track to

  • break records in terms of sales. And so that doesn't mean that folks aren't struggling

  • in some circumstances. And one of the things that I've emphasized is that there are some

  • long-term trends in the economy that we have to tackle in terms of wages not going up as

  • fast as they used to, some big costs, like college costs or health care costs that are

  • still a challenge, people still worrying about retirement.

  • And so we're going to have to make sure that we make some good decisions going forward.

  • But the notion that somehow America is in decline is just not borne out by the facts.

  • That...

  • GWEN IFILL: But it resonates. It resonates among a lot of...

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well...

  • GWEN IFILL: -- aggrieved people who are voting in big numbers for Donald Trump.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, look, -- I think that what it is also -- always been true in

  • American politics is that when we've gone through a tough time -- and we went through

  • the worst financial crisis of our lifetimes. I'm looking around and I -- I think it's safe

  • to say that it's been the worst in -- in the lifetimes or memories of most people here.

  • Then you feel nervous. People lost homes. People lost savings. People were worried about

  • whether or not they could make ends meet.

  • And so we're -- even though we've recovered, people feel like the ground under their feet

  • isn't quite as solid. And in those circumstances, a lot of times it's easy for somebody to come

  • up and say you know what, if we deport all the immigrants and build a wall or if we cut

  • off trade with China, or if we do X or Y or Z, that there's some simple answer and suddenly

  • everything is going to feel secure. And...

  • GWEN IFILL: Why don't -- why don't you mention Donald Trump by name?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: You know, he seems to do a good job mentioning his own name,

  • so...

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: -- I figure -- you know...

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: -- I'll let him do his advertising for him.

  • GWEN IFILL: Do you consider at all that any of the support for him is backlash against

  • you personally?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, here's one thing I would say -- and I just spoke about this

  • at the local high school. I think Trump is a more colorful character than some of the

  • other Republican elected officials, but a lot of the story that he's telling is entirely

  • consistent with what folks have been saying about me or the general story they've been

  • telling about the economy for the last seven and a half, the last 10, the last 20, the

  • last 30 years. And you can -- you can actually describe the story fairly concisely, right?

  • The -- the basic story they tell is that the problems that the middle class working families

  • are experiencing has to do with a big bloated government that taxes the heck out of people

  • and then gives that money to undeserving folks, welfare cheats or, you know, the 47 percent

  • who are takers or, you know, whatever phrase they use, that businesses are being strangled

  • by over-regulation, that, you know, Obamacare has killed jobs.

  • And the fact of the matter is when you look at it, the government, as a proportion of

  • our overall economy, is actually smaller now under my presidency than it was under Ronald

  • Reagan...

  • GWEN IFILL: Let me read you something...

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: : -- I have...

  • GWEN IFILL: -- that Bill Clinton said, though.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: But -- but let me -- let me finish, Gwen.

  • GWEN IFILL: OK.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We have fewer federal employees today.

  • GWEN IFILL: Um-hmm.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: The -- the health care costs since I signed Obamacare have actually

  • gone up slower than they were before I signed it. Twenty million more people have health

  • insurance.

  • So the arguments they're making just are not borne out by the facts. But what is true is

  • that if people are feeling secure -- feeling insecure and they're offered a simple reason

  • for how they can feel more secure, people are going to be tempted by it, particularly

  • if they're hearing that same story over and over again.

  • GWEN IFILL: Perception. So Bill Clinton said, "Millions and millions and millions of people

  • look at that pretty picture of America you painted," which you just described, "and they

  • cannot find themselves in it to save their lives."

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: The pretty picture that...

  • GWEN IFILL: The pretty picture of all the things that have gone well. Why is there a

  • disconnect between -- that he's describing here?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, look, here's what has changed in the economy over the last

  • 20 to 30 years. Right after World War II, America was ascendant. It was dominant around

  • the world because Europe was blown up. Japan was digging itself out of the rubble. China

  • was still a backwater. Eastern Europe was behind the Iron Curtain.

  • There wasn't much competition. We were the only folks who were seriously making cars

  • and trucks and appliances and you name it.

  • We had strong unionization, which meant that workers had leverage so that they could get

  • a good share of a growing pie. And people saw each year and each generation their standards

  • of living going up pretty rapidly.

  • And what started happening is you started seeing foreign competition. Unions started

  • getting busted, so workers had less leverage, which meant their wages didn't go up quite

  • as fast. You started seeing the end of defined benefit pension plans. In terms of health

  • care programs, if you had health care on your job, suddenly you were paying a lot of deductibles

  • and premiums.

  • College costs started going up because the public university system, which used to be

  • generously funded by state governments so that tuition was low, suddenly state governments

  • were spending more money on prisons than they were on universities, which meant tuition

  • went up.

  • You add all those things together, and people then start feeling more stressed.

  • Now, the answer to that is how do we get wages up; how do we make sure that you can save

  • for retirement; how can you make sure that your kid can afford to get a higher education

  • to compete for the jobs of the future. And the question then is what is actually going

  • to get that done?

  • To me, if we raise the minimum wage; if we make it easier not harder for people to unionize;

  • if we negotiate trade deals that raise labor standards and environmental standards in other

  • countries, instead of letting them sell here and we can't sell there; if we make sure that

  • we're rebuilding our roads and our bridges and our infrastructure to put a bunch of folks

  • in hard-hats back to work; if we make Social Security stronger rather than cutting it.

  • If we do those things, then we are going to see wages go up, labor markets tighten, and

  • we will relieve a lot of the stress that people feel. But if you look at the arguments that

  • are being made by the Republicans and the actions that have been taken by those members

  • of Congress, it's hard to see how cutting taxes for the wealthiest Americans, deregulating

  • Wall Street again, is somehow going to benefit middle class families.

  • GWEN IFILL: But let's turn to the audience and see what they think. We're going to open

  • this conversation up. I have a lot more questions, but they do, too. And we're going to be right

  • back in just a moment with that.

  • (BREAK) GWEN IFILL: So Mr. President, we are back

  • with a few questions for you from our invited audience here. They are anxious to get started

  • and so am I.

  • You're a small businessman here in Elkhart.

  • BILL KERCHER, Farmer: Yes, I am.

  • GWEN IFILL: What's your name?

  • BILL KERCHER: Bill Kercher.

  • GWEN IFILL: What's your question for the president?

  • BILL KERCHER: Mr. President, I am a fifth-generation fruit and vegetable grower here in Elkhart

  • County. And over the last six years, we've seen a dramatic increase in the number of

  • regulations that touch all aspects of our business, from the Food Safety Modernization

  • Act to Obamacare and many others.

  • Now, large farms are able to comply with these regulations more easily, and small family

  • farms we've seen actually exiting the industry. At what point are we overregulated, if not

  • now? And how can we encourage younger growers to either stay or enter an industry when the

  • barriers to entry are higher than ever?

  • Thank you.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, it's a great question. And first of all, my administration's

  • policy has been to encourage family farming, rather than big agribusiness, because not

  • only is that sort of a model of farming that built this country, but as Michelle will tell

  • you, it actually produces food that's better for you, as she reminds me constantly.

  • So, you know, we want you to succeed. Now, if you look at the trend lines in terms of

  • small family farms, the problem generally has been actually farms getting bought up

  • by larger agricultural operations. It's been you guys not always getting good prices for

  • the products that you put together.

  • I don't doubt that some elements of the regulations I put in place have probably put a burden

  • on you. So let's take health care for example. It may be that previously you weren't -- you

  • didn't think you were able to provide health insurance for your employees. The problem

  • is that if they're not getting health insurance through you, then that means that they're

  • relying on the emergency room. And they're relying on, you know, taxpayers like everybody

  • else to cover those costs if they get in an accident or if they get sick.

  • And so it has always been our view that if we can put something together where people

  • can buy health insurance through a pool, it's subsidized if they're not making enough money

  • to pay for their own health insurance, that that overall is going to be a more efficient

  • way to do it and in fact health care inflation, the rate at which healthcare costs have gone

  • up, for small businesses as well as large businesses, has been significantly slower

  • since I passed the law than it was beforehand.

  • Now, what I would say is that there are a bunch of regulations that have been put in

  • place in the past that may have been well intentioned, but didn't work, sometimes they're

  • outdated. And so what I've told my administration to do is to go back and look at all the regulations

  • that are there. If there's not a good reason for them or if they're outdated or if we can

  • redesign them to put less of a burden on businesses, we should do so.

  • I'm not interested in regulating just for the sake of regulating, but there are some

  • things like making sure we've got clean air and clean water, making sure that folks have

  • health insurance, making sure that worker safety is a priority. That, I do think, is

  • part of our overall obligation as a -- as not a third world country, but as a advanced

  • nation to make sure that we're doing the right thing.

  • And I would hope that as a consequence of the overall economy doing better, you've also

  • been doing better as well. And you know, anybody who's running a business would rather not

  • have any regulations, just as a general rule, and certainly, you don't want a situation

  • where you feel like you're being regulated and your competitor is not. But what we try

  • to do is to be very fair in terms of looking at what regulations make a difference.

  • If you're a really small business of like 25 people or less, typically you are exempted

  • from those -- a lot of the federal regulations. If you get to a certain size, then it's part

  • of the cost of doing business, but what it also does is it makes sure that we, as a society,

  • are looking out for workers, we're protecting our families and people are getting decent

  • wages and they've got health care so they're not going to the emergency room when they

  • get sick.

  • GWEN IFILL: Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Mr. Kercher.

  • As you may have been -- may have noticed, while in this election, Donald Trump came

  • to Indiana and talked a lot about what happened with the Carrier Corporation and shipping

  • the jobs out of state. Here's someone who worked for Carrier and he has a question for

  • you.

  • ERIC COTTONHAM, Carrier Employee: How are you doing, Mr. President?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: How are you?

  • ERIC COTTONHAM: My name is Eric Cottonham and I'm representing the Steelworkers Union,

  • Local 1999. And I'm trying to find out, what do we have left far us -- all of our jobs

  • are leaving Indianapolis. I see here you're doing a lot of things, but in Indianapolis,

  • there's nothing there for us. I mean, what's next? I mean, what can we look forward to

  • in the future as far as jobs, employment, whatever? Because all of our jobs has left

  • or in the process of leaving, sir.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, in fact, we've seen more manufacturing jobs created since

  • I've been president than anytime since the 1990s. That's a fact. And you know, if you

  • look at just the auto industry as an example, they've had record sales and they've hired

  • back more people over the last five years than they have for a very long, long time.

  • We actually make more stuff, have a bigger manufacturing base today than we've had in

  • most of our history. The problems have been -- part of the problems have had to do with

  • jobs going overseas and this is one of the reasons why I've been trying to negotiate

  • trade deals to raise wages and environmental standards in other countries, so that they're

  • not undercutting us.

  • But frankly, part of it has had to do with automation. You go into an auto factory today

  • that used to have 10,000 people and now they've got 1,000 people making the same number of

  • cars or more. And -- so what that means is even though we're making the same amount of

  • stuff in our manufacturing sector, we're employing fewer people.

  • Now, the good news is that there are entire new industries that are starting to pop up

  • and you're actually seeing some manufacturers coming back to the United States because they're

  • starting to realize, "You know what? Energy prices are lower here, workers are better

  • here, this is our biggest market. And so even though we off-shored and went someplace else

  • before, now it turns out we're better off going ahead and manufacturing here."

  • But for those folks who have lost their job right now because a plant went down the Mexico,

  • that isn't going to make you feel better. And so what we have to do is to make sure

  • that folks are trained for the jobs that are coming in now because some of those jobs of

  • the past are just not going to come back, and when somebody says, like the person you

  • just mentioned who I'm not going to advertise for, that he's going to bring all these jobs

  • back, well how exactly are you going to do that? What are you going to do?

  • There's -- there's no answer to it. He just says, "Well, I'm going to negotiate a better

  • deal." Well, how -- what -- how exactly are you going to negotiate that? What magic wand

  • do you have? And usually, the answer is he doesn't have an answer.

  • So what I've tried to do, what my administration's tried to do is let's grow those manufacturing

  • sectors, like clean energy, like some of these new technologies that are coming up, let's

  • focus on those. We've set up, for example, manufacturing hubs where we work with universities,

  • local businesses, local governments, to create research labs that can take something like

  • 3-D printing or, you know, nanotechnology -- all kinds of stuff that I can't really

  • explain because, you know, scientists and really smart people know all about it -- and

  • said let's invest in this so that when the new jobs come, they're coming here.

  • But I've got to tell you that the days when you just being able to -- you just being willing

  • to work hard and you can now walk into a plant and suddenly there's going to be a job for

  • you for 30 years or 40 years, that's just not going to be there for our kids because

  • more and more, that stuff's going to be automated. And if you go into a factory, that kid's going

  • to need to know computers or is going to need to know some science and some math because

  • they're not even going to be picking anything up, they're just going to be working on a

  • keyboard.

  • And that's why we put so much emphasis on job training, community colleges, that's why

  • I've proposed making the first two years of community college free so that we know that

  • every young person, they're going to be able to -- if they're not going for a full four-year

  • degree, at least they're going to be getting the technical training they need for those

  • jobs in the future.

  • But you cannot look backwards, and that doesn't make folks feel good sometimes, especially

  • if it's a town that was reliant on a couple of big manufacturers. But they're going to

  • have to retrain for the jobs of the future, not the jobs of the past.

  • GWEN IFILL: Now, you've mentioned education, you've touched on education and we have a

  • question here about that. What's your name?

  • VANESSA CORREDERA, English Professor: Vanessa Corredera.

  • GWEN IFILL: OK.

  • VANESSA CORREDERA: Hi, Mr. President.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: How are you, Vanessa?

  • VANESSA CORREDERA: Fine, thank you. You've addressed the crushing student debt, especially

  • for higher education and you've cited initiatives with community colleges, the STEM disciplines

  • and technology as potential responses. Many of my friends and especially my students are

  • still struggling with this issue.

  • So my question for you is how do you continue to address this issue your final months in

  • office? And how can you do so in a way that perhaps includes the humanities and liberal

  • arts education as whole when frankly, those are often very much under attack?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: What do you teach?

  • VANESSA CORREDERA: I teach English at Andrews University over in Michigan.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I thought you were a student.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I'm getting old. I'm telling you. All the teachers look like students

  • now.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, first of all, let me just say that I have been emphasizing

  • STEM education -- that's science, technology, engineering and math -- not because I think

  • the humanities are unimportant, but because we generally have not been producing as many

  • engineers and as many scientists and people with those kinds of technological skills as

  • compared to China, for example.

  • And we send a lot of people into banking and folks like me, who become lawyers. But the

  • truth of the matter is that we have to make sure that we continue to have a strong base

  • in the sciences and engineering if we're going to remain the most innovative economy in the

  • world.

  • But as somebody who's studied humanities himself, you know, I think it's extremely important,

  • as well.

  • The broader issue of financing education, as I mentioned, the reason that college is

  • so much more expensive for this generation as it was for my generation and even better

  • for the previous generation really had to do with government spending. It used to be

  • that most state universities were heavily subsidized by the state, so they kept tuition

  • really, really low.

  • What happened, around the '80s and '90s was state legislators started saying we've got

  • to build more prisons. In fairness to them, they also started feeling more pressure because

  • of Medicaid spending, because health care costs were going up. And so they started cutting

  • higher education budgets. And they made up for it with higher tuition.

  • And that's why at least at public colleges and universities, the costs have gone up a

  • lot.

  • Now, here's what we've done. The first thing I did when I came into office was we reformed

  • the student loan program because what was happening was on federally subsidized student

  • loans, it was all run through the banks. And the banks were getting billions of dollars

  • of profits for managing these loans to students, even though the loans were guaranteed by the

  • federal government so they weren't taking any risk.

  • And we said let's cut the middleman out, let's loan directly to students. So that saved us

  • tends of billions of dollars. That allowed us to expand the Pell grant program and to

  • lower, or cap interest on student loans.

  • But just because we did more loans or more grants, that doesn't always help with the

  • rising costs. And that's why I've proposed this two-year free college -- community college,

  • because what that does is that allows a young person who's strapped for cash and whose parents,

  • you know, are doing everything they can, but can only do so much, to say I'll get my first

  • two years for free, I'll transfer those credits to a four year public college or university

  • and I've now just potentially cut the amount of loans that I've got in half.

  • And for some people who decide they don't need a four-year college education, they want

  • to be a graphic designer, they want to go into a trade, now they can get the training

  • they need without incurring any debt.

  • So, you know, these are all proposals that are -- we know work. There's some states and

  • cities that already are doing this to -- free community college proposal and it's working

  • and it's really helping to reduce costs.

  • And the last thing, we're also trying to work with the universities just to figure out ways

  • that they can reduce costs, using, for example, online learning, you know, making, putting

  • out reports so that parents and students are better consumers, so that they know well,

  • let me not sign up for that four-year college where the graduation rates are low and it's

  • got great dorms and great gyms and nice food, but I'm going to be $50,000 worth of debt

  • and I may not get a job.

  • GWEN IFILL: Thank you, Mr. President.

  • Sir, your name?

  • ARVIS DAWSON, Community Leader: Arvis Dawson.

  • GWEN IFILL: And your question?

  • ARVIS DAWSON: First of all, I want to thank you, President, for your service to our country.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Thank you, sir.

  • ARVIS DAWSON: And, uh, despite the polls, there's a lot of love for you here in Elkhart.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Oh, I appreciate that.

  • You know, I -- I actually...

  • (APPLAUSE)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: -- one thing is after seven and a half years, you don't worry about

  • the polls no more.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: You really don't.

  • (CROSSTALK)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: So, it's alright.

  • ARVIS DAWSON: My question to you, Mr. President, I am a strong believer in equal rights for

  • everyone...

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Yes.

  • ARVIS DAWSON: A very strong believer in that. I was wondering, though, with all the pressing

  • issues that you have before you right now...

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Right.

  • ARVIS DAWSON: -- why is the issue of which bathroom a person uses such an issue?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, I -- you know what, it's -- it's a great question. Uh, somehow

  • people think I made it an issue. I didn't make it an issue. There -- there are a lot

  • of things that are more pressing, you're absolutely right.

  • What happened and what continues to happen is you have transgender kids in schools. And

  • they get bullied. And they get ostracized. And it's tough for them.

  • And, you know, we're of the generation where that stuff was all out of sight and out of

  • mind and so people -- people suffered silently. But now they're out in the open. And the question

  • then is, schools are asking us, the Department of Education, for guidance, how should we

  • deal with this?

  • And my answer is that we should deal with this issue the same way we'd want it dealt

  • with if it was our child. And that is to try to create an environment of some dignity and

  • kindness for these kids.

  • And that's sort of the bottom line. I have to just say what's in my heart but I also

  • have to look at, you know, what's the law?

  • And my best interpretation of what our laws and our obligations are is that we should

  • try to accommodate these kids so that they are not in a vulnerable situation.

  • Now, I understand that people, you know, for religious beliefs or just general discomfort

  • might disagree. And I'm not the one who's making a big issue of it.

  • But if it -- if the school districts around the country ask me what do you think we should

  • do? Then what we're going to do is tell them let's find a way to accommodate them in a

  • way that makes sure that these kids are not, you know, excluded and ostracized.

  • GWEN IFILL: Let me ask Mr. Dawson whether he's satisfied with the answer to that question

  • and what -- what is it about this that bothers you?

  • ARVIS DAWSON: Mainly, it's my religious belief. Yes, I'm satisfied with the answer to the

  • question.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: All right.

  • ARVIS DAWSON: -- coming from the church background that I come from, I believe in equal rights

  • for all.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I know.

  • ARVIS DAWSON: But I think, too, wherever you were going to the bathroom before, continue

  • to go to the bathroom there. I don't -- I don't have a problem with that.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, but, right. And -- and the problem is just for a lot of

  • these kids, they might not even feel comfortable going to the bathroom, which is a tough situation

  • if you're a kid. And -- and look, I -- I have profound respect for everybody's religious

  • beliefs on this. But if you're at a public school, the question is, how do we just make

  • sure that, uh, children are treated with kindness. That's all. And you know, my reading of scripture

  • tells me that that golden rule is pretty high up there in terms of my Christian belief.

  • That doesn't mean somebody else has to interpret it the same way. It does mean as president

  • of the United States, those are the values that I think are important. Now, this is going

  • to be settled by the courts, ultimately. There have been lawsuits everywhere. I just wanted

  • to emphasize to you, though, this -- it's not like I woke up one day and I said, man,

  • you know what we really need to do is let's start working on high school bathrooms.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: You know, that -- I was thinking about ISIL. And I was...

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: -- thinking about, you know, the economy and I'm thinking about

  • jobs. But one of the things that, as president, you learn is that you don't choose the issues

  • all the time. The issues come to you. And then you have to make your best judgment about

  • what you think is right. And...

  • GWEN IFILL: I...

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: -- and I've expressed what I think is the best judgment that is

  • consistent with our traditions and our laws.

  • GWEN IFILL: I have another issue to come to you here, Mr. President.

  • What's your name?

  • NANCI WIRT, Interior Decorator: Nanci Wirt

  • GWEN IFILL: And what do you have -- your question for the president?

  • NANCI WIRT: Uh, Mr. President, I, like many Americans, politically, I'm in the center.

  • I'm not too right, I'm not too left.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Right.

  • NANCI WIRT: So I spend a lot of time watching the debates.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Right.

  • NANCI WIRT: Both parties, trying to get a sense of who is my candidate.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Right.

  • NANCI WIRT: So I watched a lot this year. And what I came back with at the end was I

  • found that there was a lot of lack of civility.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Yes.

  • NANCI WIRT: That people were speaking -- candidates were speaking over one another, shouting,

  • calling each other names. There was a lot of inappropriate comments. I was pretty saddened

  • by the whole situation.

  • I'm curious what your thoughts are on the tone of the debates overall.

  • GWEN IFILL: Were you watching the debates, Mr. President?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: You know, I confess, I didn't.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Um, but -- but I -- but I'm really glad you did. I don't watch them

  • because I'm just steeped in this stuff, so I could probably make all the arguments for

  • all the candidates, including, uh, the Republican side, just because I've heard them a lot in

  • my day-to-day work.

  • But I think it's really important that you took the time to do what every citizen should

  • do, which is try to get informed.

  • You know, this whole issue of civility is -- you're right to be distressed by it. Now,

  • I think it's important not to romanticize what politics used to be like. You know, if

  • you read accounts of what like Tom Jefferson said about john Adams or what folks said about

  • Lincoln, I mean they called them monkeys, they said they were illegitimate children,

  • they...

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: -- they said, you know, I mean they're -- there's some rough

  • stuff. It wasn't on TV, because they didn't have TVs. But it was rough.

  • But I do think what has happened is that some of the boundaries that used to be there for

  • how you debated ideas have broken down. And no offense against Gwen, because she works

  • for PBS, which is all about civility.

  • GWEN IFILL: Absolutely.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: But...

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: -- but I do think that the TV culture, the reality culture contributes

  • to this, because what happens -- and talk radio culture. What happens is that politicians

  • get the most attention the more outrageous they sound.

  • And so if you're civil and quiet and polite, nobody covers you. But if you say something

  • crazy or rude, you're all over the news. And that has fed, I think, this kind of -- of

  • arms race of insult and controversy that doesn't shine a lot of light, even though it generates

  • a lot of heat.

  • The other thing that contributes to this is, and a lot of times we blame politicians, but

  • part of it is what's happened in terms of our voting patterns. And there are a couple

  • of reasons for this. One is political gerrymandering, which is that the way district lines are drawn

  • are -- now they use computers. They're so precise that whoever is in power, whether

  • it's Democrats in a state or Republicans in a state, and both parties do this.

  • They will draw these lines so precisely that every district they know this is going to

  • be a Republican district; this is going to be a Democratic district. And so out of the

  • 435 seats in the House of Representatives, maybe 10 percent of them are actually competitive.

  • And the rest of them, no matter what happens, are going to be either Republican or Democrat.

  • Well, what happens when that exists? It means you don't -- if you're a Republican, you don't

  • have to worry about what the Democrats are saying. You don't have to go to the center.

  • You just have to make sure that the tea party Republican to your right doesn't say something

  • more outlandish than you do. Same thing on the left. The Democrat is only worried about

  • what the person on the farthest left is going to say.

  • And that drives people into opposite directions. So, the one thing I would say is, first of

  • all, don't get discouraged. Get out there and vote. But what I would say is that every

  • voter here, Democrat or Republican, if you want more civility, then you vote for folks

  • who are civil and who are making arguments and using logic and presenting evidence.

  • And not just somebody who's popping off. And that's true whether it's on the left or the

  • right. And if you are voting for somebody who's just being controversial for the sake

  • of it or helping you vent, then you only have yourself to blame if it turns out that the

  • political debate starts getting more and more crass.

  • GWEN IFILL: Since we're talking politics, Mr. President, I do want to ask you this.

  • The primary season is almost over. We've talked a lot about what Republicans are and are not

  • doing in this campaign. I wonder when we can expect you to get involved with the Democratic

  • race? Are we going to see an endorsement soon? Bernie Sanders, perhaps?

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, I -- the -- I think that there's been a healthy debate in

  • the Democratic Party. And it's almost over. Yeah, we've got on Tuesday you'll have some

  • big states -- California and New Jersey, where the votes will take place. What I've tried

  • to do is to make sure that voters, rather than me, big-footing the situation or deciding

  • the outcome.

  • I think we'll probably have a pretty good sense next week of who the nominee will end

  • up being. I think both Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are good people. I think that

  • they broadly share the goals that I have. There are some tactical differences within

  • the Democratic Party about how do you get stuff done.

  • But there's going to be plenty of time for me to step in and campaign.

  • GWEN IFILL: I notice you don't mind using their names.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, as I said, they're not as good at marketing.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • GWEN IFILL: We have another question for you here.

  • DEAN RINK, Farmer: Mr. Obama, in regards to Obamacare, I've been receiving my health insurance

  • through the marketplace. And the first year, the subsidy was very high and my premium was

  • very low and I was very happy.

  • Now, beginning in January of '16, the subsidy was lower and my premium went up dramatically.

  • And my income was nearly the same. In fact, for this year I'm paying 22 percent of my

  • income for health care. So that's my concern and my complaint.

  • The second part of my question is: What's going to happen to Obamacare in 2017 and beyond?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Yeah. Well, I don't know the particular circumstance. Your subsidy

  • should not have gone down if your income is more or less the same, unless there was some

  • significant difference in your tax status. So I'll try to find out about that.

  • What is true is that some of the premiums went up because essentially in the first year

  • of a startup program, a lot of insurance companies didn't quite know how to price things. And

  • so they priced substantially lower than people expected.

  • And now things are kind of evening out, which means that some folks who overpriced, they've

  • dropped their prices. Some have gone up. But on average, what we're seeing is that the

  • average increase is about four bucks per month for somebody who is signed up.

  • Some markets are different. One of the big problems that we've had is making sure that

  • there's enough competition, enough insurers who are bidding for your business in rural

  • communities, because some areas just don't have as many providers and as many insurance

  • companies. And so you only get one or two, and they start thinking, well, maybe we can

  • jack up prices a little bit higher.

  • Now, technically, your state insurance commissioner is able to -- has to approve any hikes and

  • those that are not justified economically, those should be stopped.

  • But what I would say generally is that, and we're monitoring this very carefully, I promise.

  • Obviously everybody's been predicting disaster and apocalypse on this thing for a long time

  • -- is generally speaking premiums have been lower than people expected originally. In

  • some markets, they've gone up faster; some markets slower.

  • They're still cheaper than you would be able to get outside of the marketplace. But there

  • are some things that we've got to do to lower health care costs generally, particularly

  • drug prices. And part of Obamacare that's not talked about a lot is us trying to improve

  • the health care delivery system so that there's not as much waste.

  • So that you're not taking multiple tests; so that you're not readmitted into a hospital

  • because they didn't take care of business the first time. And that's part of the reason

  • why overall health care inflation has actually gone done -- has gone up at about half the

  • rate that it did before the law passed.

  • For the average person here, your premiums are about $2,600 lower than they would have

  • been if health care inflation had kept on going up at the same pace as it did before

  • Obamacare was passed. Now, the fact that they're still going up makes you feel bad. You'd feel

  • worse if they'd gone up faster.

  • So this is still an issue of challenge to policymakers and to families. I'm happy, after

  • -- after this town hall, to get some details about your situation because if you're income

  • didn't go up much, at least the subsidies should not change that much.

  • GWEN IFILL: Another question for you over here, Mr. President.

  • Your name?

  • GERALD SPARKS, Union Member: My name is Gerald Sparks. I'm a member of the Local Level 18

  • Painters and Allied Trade Union.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Good to see you.

  • GERALD SPARKS: Two-part question for you. First, with over 79,000 Syrian refugees already

  • coming into the states and tens of thousands more coming in, how can you guarantee that

  • there's none that have been radicalized? And two, don't you feel that that money would

  • be better spent taking care of the tens of thousands of homeless veterans we have sleeping

  • on the streets every night, some with children and the ones committing suicide daily? Thank

  • you, Mr. President.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, first, let me say, sir, that we don't have tens of thousands

  • of Syrian refugees coming in. We're trying to get -- trying to admit several thousand.

  • So far, I think, we've been able to admit about 2,500. In contrast, Canada's taken in

  • 25,000. We're a much bigger country. Germany's taken in half a million.

  • There's a tragedy going on there. People are homeless and dying and we're the biggest,

  • wealthiest country on Earth and we have some obligation to help, just like we'd expect

  • people to help if Americans were in trouble.

  • And so I think it's really important to understand we're not spending a lot of money on bringing

  • in and housing refugees, and this is -- this is what I mean about making sure when we're

  • deciding about elections and voting that we look at the facts. I'm trying to get more

  • refugees admitted. It's not close to the kinds of numbers you're talking about.

  • We just can't, and the reason is because refugees are actually admitted on a much stricter standard

  • than the average tourist who's coming in on a visa. They have to go through a full background

  • check, FBI, our intelligence agencies, check through every single person who comes in.

  • It's like a month-long process. But if you are somebody from France, you don't even need

  • a visa, you just hop on a plane and you're here in the United States. And if you're a

  • member of ISIL that happens to be a citizen of France or Germany, you come on in.

  • Much more risk is involved in terms of just ordinary tourists or, for that matter, American

  • citizens who've gotten brainwashed by ISIL on the computer like they did in San Bernardino,

  • and suddenly, they just go to the local gun store where, by the way, because the Republicans

  • have blocked it, we can't even put them on a list to prevent them from buying weapons.

  • That's a much bigger danger than the Syrian refugees.

  • Now, the second point you made about veterans homelessness, one of the things that I did

  • when I came in office is I said if somebody's put on a uniform of this country and fought

  • for our freedom, they cannot be homeless, and our goal should be zero homelessness,

  • zero tolerance for homelessness. And we have cut veterans homelessness since I've been

  • in office by about a third. Tens of thousands of veterans who used to be homeless are now

  • housed.

  • But one is too many, so we've got some cities where they've set a goal of zero homeless

  • veterans and they've actually achieved it. We're going to keep on working as long as

  • we have to to get this done and we have budgeted the dollars to make sure that every veteran

  • is -- is put in place.

  • But I just want to say that the reason that we've got veteranshomelessness is not

  • because of Syrian refugees, it's not because of undeserved folks on welfare, it's because

  • we've had a Congress that for too long talks tough about patriotism and looking out for

  • our troops and orders folks -- are fine with us sending 180,000 people into war, but then

  • when it came down to the actual veteransbudget, it wasn't there.

  • And I increased the veteransbudget more -- the V.A. budget more than any president

  • in history. I increased it 11 percent my first year. But we've still got work to do on it.

  • GWEN IFILL: Mr. President, I'm going to squeeze in another...

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Thank you for the question, though. Are you a veteran yourself?

  • GERALD SPARKS: No, but I support our troops.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: All right. I appreciate you, sir.

  • GWEN IFILL: Yes. Hi. What's your name?

  • MARIANNE NEUFELDT, Homemaker: Hi. Marianne Neufeldt.

  • GWEN IFILL: OK. What's your question for the president?

  • MARIANNE NEUFELDT: Mr. President, what is the one thing you would go back and change

  • during your presidency? And how would you change it?

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Other than dying my hair?

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • I have to tell you, every day, you know, I make some mistake. Fortunately, most of them

  • aren't that big. Sometimes, you just make -- use your best judgment because you're working

  • with probabilities. You don't know the perfect answer. If something's easy, it does not reach

  • my desk. By definition, somebody else has solved it. If something's easy to solve, I

  • don't even see it. Somebody else has solved it a long time ago.

  • So most of the time, I'm dealing with probabilities. If I'm making a decision about are we going

  • to take a strike against bin Laden, I don't even know if bin Laden's there and I've got

  • young men and women -- young men who are at risk when I send them there. I'm operating

  • on probabilities.

  • When we decided to bail out the auto industry -- you were talking about polls earlier. That

  • polled at about 10 percent even in Michigan because people were, you know, so mad about

  • the bank bailouts, they thought no more bail outs. And we weren't positive the thing was

  • going to work, but we knew that if we didn't do it, you'd lose a million jobs all across

  • the Midwest, including here in Indiana. So we made that bet and it worked.

  • If I were to talk about domestic policy, I think the thing I would've probably done differently

  • is I would've tried to describe earlier to the American people how serious the recession

  • was going to be, which is -- which would've hopefully allowed us to have an even bigger

  • response than we did.

  • Our -- the Recovery Act, our response to the recession was actually bigger than the New

  • Deal. We -- that's how a lot of teachers kept their jobs, that's how a lot of construction

  • workers stayed on the job and projects kept on going. That's how a lot of states met their

  • budget. That's why we didn't end up having 30 percent unemployment.

  • But in the balance of trying to reassure people, I maybe didn't indicate to them that look,

  • this is probably going to be a two-, three-, four-year process of us digging out of this

  • hole, so that we could have staged some of that recovery money over a longer period of

  • time and possibly accelerated the recovery.

  • In terms of foreign policy, I've said this before, we decided to go in as part of a broader

  • coalition into Libya to make sure that this guy Gadhafi, who had been a state sponsor

  • of terrorism, didn't go in and start slaughtering his own people. We succeeded and probably

  • saved tens of thousands of lives.

  • But I was -- I did a little too much of counting on other countries to then stabilize and help

  • support government formation. And now it's kind of a mess. I could give you a long list.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • But I -- I tell you, I mean, the one thing I can say is every day when I wake up, I'm

  • focused on how can I make your lives better; how can I protect the American people; how

  • can I increase their prosperity. At the end of the day, I can always say honestly that

  • I did my best. And hopefully, what I'm also usually trying to do is to admit that if something's

  • not working as well as it should be, let's see if we can improve it.

  • That's where we need, though, a Congress that is not about yelling and is more about solving

  • problems.

  • GWEN IFILL: Mr. President, we will prevail on you to come back and give us the rest of

  • that list at another time.

  • PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: OK.

  • GWEN IFILL: We're out of time for now.

  • Thank you very much for joining us.

  • Thank you very much, the good people of Elkhart, Indiana, for joining us. We really appreciate

  • it.

  • We hope you will keep tuning into the PBS NewsHour and at our website at PBS.org/newshour

  • for more on all of the issues and more raised tonight.

  • From all of us here in the Hoosier State today, thank you to the president and to the people

  • of Elkhart.

  • Good night.

BARACK OBAMA: The U.S has the most durable economy in the world.

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