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  • >> Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the 2013 Royal Society GlaxoSmithKline Prize

  • Lecture. I'm Jean Thomas, I'm the Biological

  • Secretary and I have the housekeeping duties of asking you to turn off your

  • mobile phones, please, because the lecture is being recorded and webcast.

  • And also, to tell you in the that actually, I hope, unlikely event that

  • there's a fire, you don't go out through the usual doors but you, because of the

  • snow and whatever, you go out through these doors instead.

  • So, 2013 is the Royal Society Year of Science and Industry.

  • This is the year when the society will showcase excellence in UK industrial

  • science and strengthen links between the society industry and academia.

  • The Royal Society recognizes that world class research and development in the UK

  • industry is essential for transforming innovative ideas into commercially

  • successful products into its economic growth and securing the science space.

  • And it will be proactive in anticipating, understanding, and responding to the needs

  • of industry's scientists. Symposia and meetings with high industry

  • interests have been added already to the society's calender which already includes

  • longstanding initiatives in scientific excellence, such as the Royal Society

  • Industry Fellowship and the Brian Mercer Awards for Innovation and Feasibility.

  • So, the year of science, science and industry will bring a renewed focus on

  • engaging with the industrial sector to develop cogent arguments that high level

  • investment in the UK science space is essential for international

  • competitiveness. Something we would all, I'm sure, sign up

  • to. Now, to the prize and the lecturer, the

  • Royal Society GlaxoSmithKline Prize and Lecture is awarded biannually for original

  • contributions to medical and veterinary sciences published within 10 years of the

  • date of the award. The prize consists of a very nice gold

  • medal, an even nicer check for 2,500 pounds, and the recipient is called upon

  • to deliver an evening lecture at the Royal Society which is why we're all here this

  • evening. And this is really a, a capacity audience,

  • and the reason we're a few minutes late starting is that there is an overflow

  • room, and I don't remember that in the last, certainly, in the last four years of

  • chairing these evening lectures. So, Adrian has really put in a big crowd

  • tonight. So, no pressure there, Adrian, at all.

  • It was, the award was initially established following a donation from the

  • Wellcome Foundation. First award was made in 1980 the centenary

  • of the work and foundation and since 2002, it is being supported by GlaxoSmithKline

  • Limited. So, this year's recipient of the prize is

  • Adrian Bird an old friend and colleague, I'm delighted that he's received this

  • award. Adrian has held the Buchanan Chair of

  • Genetics at the University of Edinburgh since 1990.

  • And he's a member of the Wellcome Trust Center for Cell Biology in Edinburgh.

  • His research focuses on the basic biology and biomedical significance of DNA

  • methylation and other epigenetic processes.

  • His laboratory identified CpG islands as gene markers in the vertebrate genome.

  • And he discovered proteins that read the DNA methylation signal to influence

  • chromatin structure. Mutations in one of these proteins, MECP2,

  • and I'm sure we'll hear a lot more about this, this evening, causes the severe

  • neurological disorder Rett Syndrome, which is the commonest genetic cause of mental

  • retardation in females. Adrian was made a Fellow of the Royal

  • Society back in 1989. He's received several awards, numerous

  • awards for his work, including notably the Louis-Jeantet Prize for Medicine, the

  • Charles-Leopold Mayer Prize of the French Academy, and the Gatineau Prize.

  • This evening, it's the turn of GSK and the Royal Society to give him this special GS

  • Royal Society, GSK prize. And has to give his lecture in order to

  • earn that. His lecture is entitled, as you can see,

  • Genetics, Epigenetics, and Disease. So, Adrian, over to you.

  • >> Thank you very much, Jean. Thank you very much for this award.

  • It's a great honor to, to be asked to give this lecture.

  • And thank you very much for braving the elements to come and listen.

  • I think, probably the title of Genetics, Epigenetics, and Disease is broad enough

  • that it sounds like it's going to change all our lives in this next 45 minutes.

  • But in fact, I'm going to focus on a relatively small part of it ultimately.

  • But I'm going to start off reasonably broad.

  • There's one deliberate mistake on the, the first slide.

  • I hope it's the last one. It's the year.

  • So let's go back in time to the draft sequence of the human genome because this

  • was a, heralded as a, a time when biology really became a, a hard science.

  • If you like, it was seen as the, the beginning of the end.

  • We now knew the entire code for all, we knew the sequence of all the genes

  • required to make a human being. But it's pretty clear that it was actually

  • the end of the beginning. And the somewhat apocalyptic predictions

  • that now one simply had to automate, the discovery of all the medical innovations

  • that would result from the genome sequence was premature.

  • In fact, it's likely in my opinion that there's still another century of biology

  • to be done and this will be an exciting century of discovery converting the

  • promise of the genome into the reality of biomedical applications.

  • And that, one of the issues I think that, that, that we would really love to be able

  • to solve, a big, a big question if you like, is where DNA, despite being the

  • thread of life, you can put it in a tube and gaze, gaze at it for as long as you

  • want and it remains utterly dead. So the question is really what does it

  • take to make it alive? When Craig Venter synthesized a bacterial

  • genome an important synthetic biology milestone, it had to be put into a living

  • cell before it became alive. How can one bypass that?

  • As the chemists say, you only really understand something if you can make it.

  • We can't actually make life but it would be good to know some of the rules required

  • to do that. So, some key unanswered questions about

  • the genome that, that remain and this is only a selection.

  • First of all a basic fact, genes make proteins, here is the chromosome, here is

  • the sequence of the genes, there is the RNA.

  • It encodes the sequence of the amino acids that lead to the protein that folds up to

  • then do all the lifelike things that are required.

  • But how are only the right genes expressed in a cell type?

  • This has been a question, a long standing question.

  • Do we know the answer to it? Why globin is expressed in blood cells and

  • keratin is expressed in skin cells, etcetera.

  • We, we approximate knowledge about it, but actually, there's an enormous amount to

  • find out. Most of the genome is actually

  • inaccessible. This is this gray, it's rather difficult

  • to look at this picture I think because the DNA is gray and looks although it

  • should be in the background but this is a nucleusome, the repeating unit of the, of

  • the chromosome, if you like. The fundamental repeating unit.

  • And the DNA clings to the outside of it. And proteins that want to make genes

  • active, can't actually get at the DNA properly.

  • So, how does the gene activation machinery gain and how does it keep access?

  • Again, we have some beginning answers to this, but we don't, by any means, have a

  • full picture. Protein-coding DNA sequences are only 1%

  • of our genome. So, if you look at a piece of the human

  • genome, you see these vertical stripes correspond to the bits of this gene that

  • are separated from each other. In fact genes are fragmented and they are

  • a tiny minority of all the DNA. What is the rest of it for?

  • There is an enormous, there's a vast majority that is, that we can't explain.

  • This isn't the case with all organisms. This, for example, is yeast, and you can

  • see now the genes are packed together. It's difficult, it used to be said

  • casually that the rest of this DNA was just junk.

  • But now, it's sort of almost politically incorrect to call it junk.

  • It's particularly after the encode project which found lots of potential regulatory

  • sequences throughout here. So, this other DNA is doing stuff.

  • And perhaps, it's doing stuff that makes for example, humans and other mammals far

  • more complex than yeast. So finally, there are questions almost

  • sociological questions. Does the environment have any impact on

  • gene expression? And this is a, a question I'll allude to

  • in a moment. But it's not one that is the main subject

  • to this, this talk. So, I put in the title Epigenetics because

  • I'm quite mine, our work is quite often described as epigenetics.

  • It literally means above or in addition to genetics.

  • But the definition has been controversial and I'm just going to skim somewhat

  • lightheartedly over some of this because it's, it's at meetings to do with

  • Epigenetics. One can see various opinions expressed

  • with varying degree, this one I believe was in Barcelona with great vehemence.

  • So, let me just try to sort of consolidate this.

  • The original epigenetics definition comes from Conrad Waddington, who was actually

  • my predecessor as Buchanan Chair, Chair, Chair of Genetics in Edinburgh.

  • And what he meant was in contrast to pre-formationism, but the development

  • proceeded by the gradual unfolding of the information in the genes, to produce the

  • whole organism. So, for him, how information of the genes

  • is read during embryo, during embryonic development to give the whole organism was

  • the essence of what epigenetics was about. We would now call this developmental

  • biology. How the genotype gives rise to the

  • phenotype. But it's acquired, or a sort of, a special

  • status in epigenetics, really, because of this iconic picture, the epigenetic

  • landscape. I'm not going to dwell on this either.

  • Because quite honestly, having had it explained to me several times, I'm never

  • totally sure, exactly how this helps. It's a picture of a bull rolling down a

  • hill. The number of options for the bull get

  • progressively less. But I don't feel that this encapsulates

  • anything very useful. This, however, is a fundamentally

  • important question that remains on our agenda.

  • Second definition of epigenetics which is rather different has actually different

  • origins epistemological origins. How characteristics are inherited across

  • cells or organism generations without changes in the DNA, its sequence, itself.

  • An example of this is this cat, the so-called tortoise shell cat, or calico

  • cat, in, in, in the US, which has these patches of fur.

  • It has two x chromosomes. One of them has a gene that gives black

  • fur, the other one has a gene that gives orange fur, and cells early in

  • development, inactivate one or the other of those chromosomes for, for reasons we

  • don't, which I will, I will come back to actually, a little bit later.

  • And you get a patch of skin because the cell that originally inactivated the

  • orange fur gene gave rise when it divided to cells that did exactly the same thing.

  • So, that was inherited. All the gene or the, the DNA is still

  • there in these cells, in, in the orange ones, and the black ones, but there is

  • difference that is inherited and that's epigenetic according to this definition.

  • So, heritable traits of this kind might be influenced by the environment.

  • And this is sort of revitalized that an ancient argument about nature versus

  • nurture, where nature is genetics, the idea that we're, our genes are, are in

  • control and nurture is the opposite, the idea that our environment determines who

  • we are. Of course, it's a mixture of both but

  • epigenetics has given a, a, a new lease of life to the nurture argument.

  • And so, one can see articles such as this and there are many examples I could have

  • chosen why your DNA isn't your destiny, the new science of epigenetics reveals how

  • choices you make can change your genes and those of your kids.

  • Now, I'm not an expert on some of the epidemiology behind this, but the, the

  • molecular biology, in my opinion, is far less convincing than it is for other

  • aspects of epigenetics. It is, however, an extremely interesting

  • idea, that the environment can give rise to changes that get passed on, but it is

  • systematically overstated in a lot of places one finds it described.

  • So, one has to be circumspect about the, this kind of argument in my opinion.

  • There are couple of excellent examples in plants, in worms where immune, immunity is

  • involved, but some of the more sociological aspects, in my opinion,

  • require further evidence. So, I'm sticking with this as my example

  • of heritable epigenetics. It's closer to the molecular biology we

  • actually understand. So, Epigenetics 3, biological significance

  • of the epigenome. Another definition, it's risen

  • pragmatically. What is the epigenome?

  • Well, here is a genome of a, of a cell. It's, it's the chromosomes that were

  • obviously designed for an experiment because there are fluorescent pinpoints

  • here. Ignore those, that's a human chromosome

  • compliment. If you explode those chromosomes, you see

  • beads on a string and this is that repeating unit I referred to earlier, the

  • nucleosome with the DNA going round the outside.

  • It looks like beads on a string. So, the epigeno, epigenome refers to

  • markings of those beads, of that string of beads in such a way that the region, it is

  • regionally, regionally adapted to its function.

  • So, for example, there can be a region where gene is stably ON, and there is a

  • whole plethora of marks that appear that reinforce that decision.

  • And similarly stably here, a gene OFF, such as the black-coat gene in our orange

  • patch of fur. And again, you get adaptation, and this is

  • the epigenome, and the study of what the epigenome means, is another definition of

  • epigenetics. So, you have DNA methylation here where

  • these methyl groups are added to the DNA. You can't do much to DNA without changing

  • its propterties, its important properties. Almost, the only thing it seems you can do

  • is put these methyl groups on and even that is bad in a way.

  • I don't have time to go into, it causes an increase in the frequency of mutations.

  • But the, by far, the most elaborate way of marking the chromosomes, is via these

  • beads which, invisibly on any of the structures I've shown you before

  • previously, have tails. And these tails are basically ticketing

  • entities that you can add chemical information to.

  • That the cells can write information in the form of chemical alterations.

  • And so, you add this and, that says, stably ON or stably OFF.

  • Again, we have the broad outlines. We can correlate quite a lot of these with

  • activity and silence. But if you were to ask exactly what each

  • of these modifications does, we have, still have a lot to learn.

  • So, if you like, it's the, epigenetics is the structural adaptation of chromosomal

  • regions so as to register signal, or perpetual, perpetuate altered activity

  • states. And importantly, proteins that read these

  • marks, write the marks, or erase the marks, remove the marks are implicated in

  • human disease and quite a lot of excitement in pharma including GSK is

  • devoted to finding out what these drugs might be good for in terms of human

  • disease. So, epigenetics then embraces key unsolved

  • problems in Biology, how, how the genotype give rise to phenotype, that's the

  • Waddington one, how traits are inherited across cell or organism generations

  • without changes in the DNA sequence and how structural adaptation of the genome

  • facilitates gene activity programs. As far as I'm concerned, this is not a

  • word one needs to dwell on with sort of almost a theological interest about what

  • it means. Everything it possibly means is

  • interesting. So, let's get on with studying it.

  • And I, I like to think of it as how the genome is organized and managed to make

  • DNA if you like, come alive. So CG is one such signal it's one of those

  • marks and you'll notice CG is not actually a, a mark, it's actually a sequence, it's

  • a 2 based pair sequence. Dna sequences that recognize proteins are

  • usually longer than that because they're rarer.

  • If you have a sequence of one base, every few bases you come across it, and it

  • doesn't have much information. Two bases is not much better, but

  • nevertheless, as you will see, CG is used as a genetic signal and also as an

  • epigenetic signal. So, here's a piece of DNA, flattened out

  • so it's no longer helical. Those two strands are anti-parallel and CG

  • is paired with itself. So, CG pairs with CG.

  • This TA is paired with itself, but it's nearly so interesting.

  • And one of the things we'll talk about that can happen to CG is that the C can

  • get, gets methylated. And that, since there are two of them,

  • that can be a symmetrical event. And it looks like this, they sit in the

  • major grooves. I've already shown you a different

  • picture, though with less vulgar coloring that shows the two methyl groups sitting

  • in the major groove and they influence interactions between proteins and DNA.

  • So, what are the features that adapt CG for a genome signalling function?

  • The first is that, as I've mentioned, you can get it in, in three different chemical

  • forms, actually there are more than three, there are another two but that, it's not

  • yet clear whether these are biologically important or just by-products, at least

  • it's not clear to me. You have CG unadorned, you have CG

  • methylated, and you have CG where the methyl group has had an oxygen added to

  • it, and it becomes hydroxy methylated. So, it exists in different forms.

  • Specific proteins are attracted or repelled by different modified forms and

  • we're going to talk more about that. Highly variable in frequency, so then, the

  • frequency of CG despite the fact that it's just a two base per sequence is

  • dramatically different going along the genome.

  • In the bulk of the genome, 99%, it's quite far apart.

  • These lollipops represent CGs. The lollipops that are solid represent

  • methylated ones and the open ones represent unmethylated ones.

  • So, 99% of the genome has not many CGs and most of them are methylated.

  • But then, there are these clusters where the density is about 10 times higher and

  • these are the so-called CG islands. They are interesting because they sit

  • right on top of the control regions for genes.

  • So, here's a gene, it's red in this direction and then these blue bits are

  • spliced together to make the messenger RNA.

  • And sitting right on top of the promoter is this CG island, and this amounts to

  • about 1% of the genome. There's another one there.

  • And here's a biological consequence of the methylation.

  • If you look at this CG island, it can, under certain circumstances, this happens

  • on the inactive x, this happens at imprinted genes.

  • It happens at germline genes in the soma, it happens in cancer, abberantly.

  • It gets methylated. And when that happens, you shut down

  • transcription of the gene. And because methylation is something I

  • haven't gone into, is relatively stable, it can be transmitted from one generation

  • to another, if you like, copied. When cells divide one cell generation to

  • another, it's this is quite a stable[UNKNOWN].

  • So, one of the things DNA methylation does, is it shuts down the expression of

  • genes. So, we're gonna talk about specific

  • proteins that are attracted or repelled by modified forms of, of CG.

  • And I'm gonna start just with a protein that recognizes unmodified CG so it cant

  • recognize this or this. So, Cfp1, sorry about the acronyms, it's

  • a, it's a protein that recognized, it was discovered, in fact, by David Skalnik it

  • binds to non-methylated CG. I don't know why I've drawn the DNA at

  • this jaunty angle, but it, it just meant to show that it's interacting with it.

  • And it also interacts with a complex of proteins.

  • An enormous complex, well, relatively big complex, called set 1.

  • And this complex does something to the nucleusome.

  • We've seen this before, this is the bead on the string, the DNA going round the

  • outside. Haven't, in, in, when you look, determine

  • the structure of something like this, you don't find the tails, the things that you

  • write on. And so, I've drawn them freehand, nobody

  • actually knows where they are because they're so floppy, they don't come up in

  • the x-ray structure. But, amino acid lysine number 4 gets

  • methylated and this is done by this complex.

  • So, we have a protein that binds to non-methylated CG that recruits a complex

  • that methylates this. Now, why is that interesting?

  • This is a mark of active genes, so if we look where CG island are, CpG island as

  • they're more often called, in fact, here are the CpG islands, I'm not going to tell

  • you how we know they're there. But you'll notice these, this gene is

  • going this way, there's a CpG island at the start of it.

  • This gene is going this way, actually bidirectionally, there's one going this

  • way, one going this way, there's the CpG island.

  • So, they're all the CpG islands, there's the RNA polymerase, the protein, the

  • machine that makes that starts to be converted, copied into to messenger RNA.

  • And it's just at the beginning of them because this is the, a particular form of

  • RNA polymerase that is only at the beginning of genes.

  • And here is this mark, H3K4me3, which means this purple blob on this tail, which

  • is put on here. So, we have the non-methylated CG cluster

  • here and we have the mark, and this mark is involved in gene expression.

  • So could it be that the, the proteins attracted by the CG brings in this and

  • that's what causes this mark? If you look as, as we did where the

  • protein is, it coincides with the CpG islands.

  • So, it's in the right place. If you take it away, the k4

  • trimethylation, this, these peaks here go down and that's consistent with the idea

  • that this is reading the CpG island signal but the key experiment is really the Pete

  • Skene and John Thomson did is to insert a piece of CpG-rich, CG-rich junk into the

  • genome, real junk in fact, it's not actually quite junk, it's the jelly fish

  • gene that's been optimized for expression in humans lacking any control sequences,

  • just inserted into the genome, so you make a CG island like sequence with a cluster

  • of CGs. Now, are you creating a new H3K4

  • trimethylation peak? So, here's a, here's a map of all the CGs.

  • The vertical lines show where they are and this is what we've inserted.

  • And you can see the density of CGs has gone up.

  • And now, you can plot that density. Now, where's Cfp1, the protein that binds

  • CG. There it is.

  • We've now got a new peak of it. And what about H3K4 trimethylation?

  • It's there, too. And you notice, where there's most CG,

  • there's most, more, most of that modification.

  • Is there, have we just made a gene? In other words, all the stuff that does

  • geney things is there. No.

  • Because there's no RNA polymerase there. So, this is just the DNA sequence, talking

  • to the chromatin. And, and as one can do this with other

  • sequences and verify that it's the case. So, a CG-rich piece of DNA creates a new

  • region of H3K4 trimethylation, this active promoter mark, even when there is no

  • active promoter there. So, the presence influences of the CGs

  • influences the chromatin structure via this link between the DNA binding proteins

  • and the set enzyme complex and other CG binding proteins also recruit, rcruit

  • modifying enzymes. In fact, for a long time, we were used to

  • the fact that CG islands existed, but we didn't really know what they were for.

  • And, and actually, one almost forgot to ask, well, they're always there, what are

  • they for? In fact, it now seems very likely that

  • they are platforms to set up appropriate genome structures at gene promoters.

  • Very important function. And there are other proteins that bind CG,

  • that recruit other things to them, and this is a very, a rapidly growing area.

  • So, suddenly, we find that the CG island is a, is a, is a, a structure of

  • biological importance, and we're starting to disentangle how.

  • So here is a CXXC protein which has its domain.

  • Cxxc is the name of the protein domain that binds CG.

  • It comes in wearing this ludicrous wig. And creates a sunny promoter gene, gene

  • activity friendly region of the genome. If there was a methyl CG,it comes in and

  • it is goes away. It can't bind.

  • So now, I'm going to turn to for the rest of my talk proteins that bind to the

  • methyl CG mark, the one with the purple blobs on.

  • The purple blobs that were on the DNA, not the purple blobs that was on, was on the

  • histone tail. So, what binds this form of CG?

  • Well, a protein that we found a long time ago is MECP2, and this binds,

  • specifically, and I'm going to show you some of the prehistory of this protein.

  • First of all, a picture from the paper and you could either take from this how

  • prescient he was, to be able in 1992, to find this protein that turns out to be so

  • interesting. Or you can think, he's been working on

  • that protein for 21 years and he's still not quite sure where it does.

  • Let's you can shoot, take your pic at the end of, of the talk.

  • So this shows how we first found it. We run the proteins that are in a nucleus

  • on a gel. And then, we probe them with a piece of

  • DNA that's labeled and methylated. And then, the same sequence of DNA with no

  • methylation. And clearly, there's a protein that bind

  • one that's methylated and at about 84 kilodalton and doesn't bind when it's not.

  • And we now know a structure for this in, in an atomic detail.

  • Here are the two methyl groups sitting in the major group.

  • And this is the domain of this protein that interacts with them.

  • So, we were happily studying this for blue, blue skies reasons to, to try to

  • find out a protein that read DNA methylation and therefore a reader of DNA

  • methylation, and find out what it did. When Huda Zoghbi showed that the gene that

  • causes Rett Syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder, is almost exclusively, more than

  • 90% MECP2. So, this is the gene that is mutated in

  • Rett Syndrome. So, what is Rett Syndrome?

  • This is a, a, a film just taken from YouTube, not somebody I have ever met but

  • you can see the characteristic features of Rett Syndrome which involve this repeated

  • hand clasping and a period of apparently normal development saw 6-18 months, and

  • then regression, progressive encephalopathy, repetitive hand movements,

  • breathing a, a, arrythmia, a, a profound problem.

  • But nevertheless, a life expectancy of about 40 years on average.

  • So, there is no effective treatment and 24-hour nursing is required.

  • So, this was all caused not by a brain gene, that was what was being looked for

  • by everybody. And those were in the days where you

  • thought the gene would have something to do with the, the, the tissue that was

  • affected, but a basic housekeeping protein that reads DNA methylation that's

  • expressed in every cell type. So, why does this disorder only affect

  • girls? Well, you probably guessed it's because

  • it's on the x chromosome. Males are always more affected by

  • mutations in genes on the x chromosome than females because they only have one x

  • and females have another one which can compensate and males die.

  • There is no male Rett Syndrome simply because males don't survive.

  • So then you have a new mutation. Nearly always as it happens like many of

  • these things, paternally derived. And then proceeds x chromosome

  • inactivation. I remember so, in order that females have

  • only the same number of functional x chromosomes as males, they shut one off.

  • And this happens in random cells and I've shown you the example of the cat and I'll

  • show you the cat again. X, this gene, this cell inactive[UNKNOWN],

  • this progeny of this cell inactivates this x chromosome this one inactivates the

  • other one and this then is inherited so this is the epigenetic inheritance

  • phenomenon it's passed on. And the end result is, there's the

  • wretched cat again but with his different things, I will show you a different

  • example of that in a moment. But the, this, well, the point to be made

  • here is that the brain and, in fact, the other tissues of a Rett patient consist of

  • a mosaic of a salt and pepper mixture of cells that are functionally normal with

  • respect to MECP2 and cells that are functionally without normal, I mean,

  • without MECP2. So here, for example, if the phenomenon a

  • new mutation arises, sometimes, that mutation is the only MECP2 in the cell,

  • and the other time, it's invisible. And you just get the wildtype express.

  • So, this is the mosaicism. Now, the equivalent of the cat picture in

  • the brain, though, is rather different. This shows the dentate gyrus of, which is

  • a region of the hippocampus, which is part of the brain in, in from a mouse, I

  • haven't talked about the mouse yet in any detail but just to show you that you can

  • see patches. It's probably better to see it here in the

  • merge, this is MECP2 and it's in blobs and there are gaps.

  • But actually, there aren't gaps in the nuclei staining and so there are patches

  • of cells here that are inactivated the functional MECP2 gene, and there are other

  • patches here that function that inactivated the non-functional MECP2 gene.

  • And you see these patches, the point I'm making here is the patches in a cat are

  • gigantic and involves millions and millions and millions of cells.

  • The patches in the brain are, for reasons we don't quite understand, tiny and so you

  • get a bigger mixture of functional and nonfunctional cells in this tissue.

  • So, the first thing we did when we found this out was to make a mouse.

  • We were gonna make a mouse anyway for our blue skies reasons but now we were

  • energized, I would say, and that energizing has continued to the present

  • day by the fact that we were working on a human disorder and we're actually in touch

  • with a community of people who are affected by it.

  • So if you take a normal mouse, it lives in this green state for a long time.

  • But the MECP2 minus mouse, the male, the, the equivalent of the human male that

  • doesn't survive, doesn't survive. And these colors are meant to indicate

  • that they get symptoms, get worse and worse, and eventually die.

  • The female and this, this shows a, a sign of neurological symptoms in a mouse.

  • It does this hind limb clasping and it does that at this blue stage here.

  • Initially, there is no observable phenotype.

  • But later on, they become ill and subsequently die.

  • The females and these are really the true model of Rett Syndrome because they're

  • heterozygous as, as geneticists say for these mismutations.

  • They're fine, and that's how you keep the line going.

  • They breed for several months and a mouse at six months of age is quite an old

  • mouse. It's had quite a few liters.

  • But then, they suddenly hit a, a, a wall and they become immobile and they develop

  • all the other sorts of symptoms including hind limb clasping, arrhythmic breathing

  • lack of mobility that, that characterize the Rett-like phenotype.

  • And there's a dramatic change in their behavior but it's stable, just as it is

  • with humans. So if you like though, the MECP2 deficient

  • mouse is actually quite a good model. Not all, not all models are, are

  • particularly persuasive. But it's quite easy to persuade skeptics

  • that this is a good model of this disorder because a lot of the things that MECP2

  • seems to do in humans it also does in mice.

  • So, we've got, we're armed with this model.

  • Now, how are we going to find out what MECP2 actually does, and how that's

  • connected to the function of the brain? Because that's what's gone wrong in Rett

  • syndrome. Well, the big resource you always have is

  • in, in genetic disorders, is the mutations that give rise to the disorder.

  • Particularly, if, like Rett Syndrome, they're all new mutations.

  • This does not run in families, the males don't survive and the females don't

  • reproduce either. So, it doesn't run in families everything

  • is a new mutation. And so, this is the sort of picture you

  • get. Everywhere, absolutely all over the place.

  • But I will point out to you that these frame shifts, these grey ones, the longest

  • bars, everything downstream of that is disrupted.

  • Because the, the protein goes out of frame when you start making junk afterwards.

  • So, they don't mark the spot where there's an important bit of this protein.

  • They only tell you that this the boundary between and everything downstream gets

  • lost. The other ones, the nonsense mutations,

  • also stop the protein. That's, that's why you put x here.

  • They just terminate the protein. The ones that are most informative are the

  • missed sense mutations. Because what's happened there is, you've

  • put an alien amino acid. One single subunit of the protein in the

  • wrong is wrong. Everything before it, is fine.

  • Everything after it is, fine. Just that one amino acid is wrong.

  • And so this is telling you the really important bits.

  • And if you'll notice, the blue ones, which are the missense are not randomly

  • distributed. So, we went into the database.

  • Now, of course, for a lot of disorders that look like they might be related to

  • MECP2, and there's more than Rett Syndrome.

  • I, I don't have time to go into that. People look at the database.

  • And they start, sorry, they, they sequence.

  • And so, there's an awful lot of polymorphisms, a lot of, lot of changes

  • that are not associated with disease. The one way of being sure it's associated

  • with disease, is to look for mutations that are not found in the parents.

  • They're only found in the offspring. Cuz then, the probability that, that is,

  • is a, is a function-less genetic variant is, is vanishingly low.

  • When you see very specific domains here, interestingly and, I don't have time to go

  • into this, there are now more and more xsomes sequences.

  • People are sequencing genes of normal individuals or for people who have other

  • things. And so, you can find all the missense

  • mutations where there's no obvious effect. And what you notice is that this cluster

  • here, for example, doesn't have any genes with no obviously effect.

  • This cluster here the same. So, you can use the, the normal

  • polymorphisms as a way of seeing the inverse of what you see with the

  • mutations. So, now we have two domains.

  • What's this domain? Well, I've labeled it MBD.

  • Actually, what that stands for is methylated DNA binding domain.

  • I showed you the x-ray structure of that bound to methylated DNA.

  • That's the bit that contacts DNA and brings this in, and many of these

  • mutations prevent that. So, we're pretty clear what's going on,

  • I'm just going to tell you a couple of things about that domain.

  • The first thing that emerged when we studied it was people, you tend to think

  • when you find a DNA binding protein that it goes to specific targets and then, it

  • does stuff there and those targets are its main function.

  • But actually, it turns out, it turns out that MECP2 is incredibly abundant in,

  • specifically in neurons. And in fact, there are 17 million

  • molecules per nucleus in a cell. And this is a lot it's one every four

  • hundred base pairs, it means there's enough to coat the genome and then that's

  • actually what it does. Dna methylation goes up and down along a

  • chromosome so this a very low resolution picture and the MECP2 goes up and down in

  • exactly the same way. So, it's, it's not in special places, it's

  • all over the place, with somewhat different densities and it's very, very

  • abundant. It doesn't behave like a transcription

  • factor which goes to specific target genes, it binds globally.

  • So, that's that domain, let's now talk about this domain and this is more

  • interesting to us. What's more interesting to us, because we

  • had no idea what it might be. So, hypothesis was that this region binds

  • to DNA. And then, this region binds to some sort

  • of partner that it brings in, and that's its job.

  • And you can't mutate that because it fails to do that.

  • And Matt Lyst really led this aspect of the project.

  • What he, we did, was we made a mouse with a green fluorescent protein tag on the

  • MECP2 and then we pull down that tag from the brain, an extract of the brain of the

  • mice that had it. And then, we ask what came down with it,

  • those of the partners? And by mass spectrometry, we found these,

  • these proteins. This is the list of the top 8.

  • Interestingly well, MECP2 came down. That's a relief.

  • You expect, if it didn't, you'd have a real problem.

  • Then two proteins that transport it into the nucleus.

  • But then these 5 subunits and more acronyms, I'm afraid, of a complex that's

  • well-known. This is a huge complex, more than a

  • million daltons complex, which contains which contains a histone deacetylase 3.

  • So, what a histone deacetylases do is, they remove a mark on one of the tails,

  • that mark is associated with activity. If you remove that mark, you work against

  • gene activity. In fact, you silence gene expression.

  • So, this is a complex that reinforces the silence of gene expression.

  • Shuts the genes down by removing this methyl group.

  • So, here it is, there's the methyl group, PowerPoint extravaganza goes.

  • So this, it's well-known to buying nuclear receptors.

  • And it also, now we find that it binds to MECP2.

  • Now, where does it bind to MECP2? Well, it binds it, you won't be surprised

  • to hear, exactly in this second domain. And all of those mutations that cause Rett

  • Syndrome in this second domain, abolish the interaction with this, this complex.

  • So, this mutant protein can't bind DNA. This mutant protein can't bind NCoR SMRT.

  • This what, which is the unfortunate name for this complex.

  • And also, you lose the ability to shut down transcription.

  • So we, we now have this fairly persuasive model I think that MECP2 is a bridge.

  • It's a bridge between DNA, there's a methyl group MECP2 is attached to it.

  • It's brought in this complex which is a gene silencing complex and if you have

  • mutations in the DNA binding domain and it can't bring it in and if you have

  • mutations in the complex interaction, you can't quite bring it in either.

  • So, MECP2 then and other proteins that bind metal CG, and there are others about

  • which we know something. They come in, bind.

  • And instead of creating the sunny atmosphere, they create a foggy trans,

  • transcription-hostile environment. I was going to say like, Edinburgh in

  • January but it's not really transcription-hostile in Edinburgh.

  • We express our genes perfectly well. So then, the big question is, have we got

  • any further now? We know that, it's likely to be a

  • repressor. And to you, it see, it probably seems

  • likely that was always going to be the case.

  • Dna methylation represses transcription, this binds DNA methylation, what more

  • natural than it represses. Actually, it's a very controversial area,

  • as to whether or not it does repress transcription.

  • And my feel is, is, is that the important advance.

  • So the question is what transcription does it repress because it's not obvious.

  • When you look in the brains of the mice, histone acetylation is up, histone H1 is

  • up. The epigenome is disorganized, expression

  • of some genes is up, other genes is down, other genes are down.

  • Or and some are unchanged and these effects aren't very big.

  • So, very, very briefly, I'm going to say you could be controlling the activity of

  • specific genes, you could be controlling transcription in response to neuronal

  • activity only when neurons fire, something happens, this protein actually gets

  • phosphate groups added to it, maybe that's something to do with it or dampening of

  • transcriptional noise. And this is a, a boring sounding

  • possibility, it just kind of sits on the genome and keeps everything down.

  • But there's some evidence for that, we know that the transposons, which are

  • selfish elements in the genome that like to jump around when there is, normally,

  • they jump around, represented by these yellow dots, a very small amount.

  • When you don't have MECP2, they jump around an awful lot more and so, in other

  • words, MECP2 is preventing the expression of the RNA that allows these things to

  • move, and this is no function for the organism.

  • It's actually something it would prefer to keep quiet.

  • So, that's noise dampening, so this question is unresolved.

  • So now, in the last part of my talk, I, I, I left you there with, that's as far as we

  • got with the Molecular Biology I'm afraid. But I think we're now making progress.

  • Now, we know we have this bridge model. Let's now talk about the pathology and the

  • trying to get all the way from the Molecular Biology up to the patients, and

  • our, surrogate for the patients which is the mouse model.

  • So what we really want to do is have a molecular description of the legion in

  • MECP2 and the count for all steps to, the brain of the patient, so that we can

  • understand. And this requires we know an awful lot

  • more than we do now, for example, how brains work.

  • So we're trying to bridge this gap. Now our involvement in this is really to

  • do with one specific question and that is this one.

  • Can the symptoms be reversed? In the pathology, as observed in post

  • mortem brains and as seen in the mouse, is that neurons are slightly simpler.

  • So, if you put a, a bulls-eye over the center of a neuron then its arms are more

  • complex and branchy in a normal animal compared to what they are in an animal

  • that doesn't have MECP2. That's about it for pathology.

  • There's no cell death so it's not a neurodegenerative disorder.

  • It's not like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or Huntington's, where nerve cells die.

  • It's just a kind of shrinkage they become underpowered neurons.

  • So, the question then arises, if their not dead, if we put MECP2 back, can it be

  • reversed? And I'm gonna tell you about that and then

  • our attempts to do some therapy based on that.

  • So how do you, how do you have the, how do you do this experiment?

  • Well, what you do, is you take the MECP2 gene, you put a stop in it, which is just

  • a chunk of DNA that is poisonous for transcription and then you flank it with

  • sequences that mean, that when you want to you, and so that then causes transcription

  • to stop. You're let the animal grow up, it has no

  • MECP2 and it becomes ill as a result and then, at your chosen moment, you remove

  • that stop and start transcription again and you can do that in ways that I, that

  • have been published and I can tell you about if, if you want to know afterwards

  • but this works and that's the first surprise that actually works.

  • And the reason why it works is because Jacky Guy, who's an unbelievably talented

  • person in the lab is took charge of these experiments.

  • So, I've shown you the mouse that's wildtype, the mouse that's male.

  • What we're going to do now, is look at a mouse where it's male, it's on the, it's

  • in the death zone, if you like. It's and we interject it with tamoxifen,

  • which is the way we trigger the deletion of the stop cassette.

  • Does it work? Well, this is the, this is MECP2 in a

  • normal mouse brain. This is in a stop mouse brain.

  • So, the stop works. This, this looks like it's cell that

  • haven't been stopped. But actually, it's blood cells that

  • autofluoresce . And then, you treat with tamoxifen and

  • back comes the MECP2. So, that works.

  • And then, he is a mouse on, on the day we started the experiment.

  • So, it is grown up with no MECP2. It have the classic symptoms of the MECP2

  • null mouse it has this tremor, it has arrhythmic breathing which you may be able

  • to see in the flanks. They breathe and then it stops.

  • They breathes and stops. And it doesn't move.

  • And the film is much longer than this and it still doesn't move.

  • And then when you humanely suspend it by the tail, it, it does this hind limb

  • clasping. So, then, then the question is what does

  • tamoxifen do for that? And then, this is the same mouse a month

  • later. Under our animal license, this mouse would

  • not be able to survive for more than a week or two at the most.

  • And here, it is a month later, remarkably healthy.

  • And it went on to live I wouldn't say, a natural life, but you know, a quite a long

  • life. So this is an unexpected finding, we

  • didn't expect it and it turns out nobody else did either.

  • And, and for that reason it was, it, it, it's turned out to be quite important in

  • the field there. This somewhat unedifying image of a mouse

  • I will leave you and go, go on to the, the females.

  • Because, you know, those mice are young. They're only 6 or 8 weeks old, and so, it

  • could be that they're young and plastic, and, and reversal therefore, works better

  • at that age. Also, they're not real model of Rett

  • Syndrome. This is the real model of Rett Syndrome,

  • and these animals are no longer young and plastic.

  • So, we want to do this experiment. Inject with tamoxifen when the animals are

  • 6 months old or so. And then this just shows that this also

  • works. That's a reversed animal, that's a, a wild

  • type animal, a normal animal and you can see they're indistinguishable.

  • And this is an animal that was unable to respond to tamoxifen for the, for the,

  • because we genetically made it that way. So, it's still is obese, which is a

  • characteristic of the females on this genetic background.

  • Immobile, and it does the hind limb clasping and breathing arrhythmia and all

  • that sort of stuff. So, you can this, this mouse looked like

  • that mouse when the treatment started. So, the implications of this reversibility

  • is that, obviously, Rett Syndrome is potentially a curable condition.

  • You have to use the potentially word there because these are mice, not humans.

  • But nevertheless, it's encouraging. It also means, Rett Syndrome, like most of

  • the autism diseases, have been called neurodevelopmental disorders.

  • And the implication is that something goes wrong during development in terms and that

  • you can never recover from that. And, and I, I think that when one thinks

  • of brain diseases, brain disorders one tends to think of them as irrevocable.

  • And in, in actually, there's no, the experimental evidence to support that is,

  • is not strong. And this questions that, and there's work

  • with fragile X Syndrome as well, and other so-called neurodevelopment diseases

  • disorders that suggest that actually they're not neurodevelopmental at all.

  • And, in fact, if you take away MECP2 in adults, adults die.

  • Certainly, not only required during development, and so this reversibility may

  • be more widespread and true than was previously thought, and that can only be

  • good in terms of exploring therapeutic options.

  • Everything we've done suggests that actually what MECP2 does is sustain

  • neuronal function. These are cells that are never going to

  • divide. They take ages deciding who they're going

  • to be connected to. And in an elaborate dance of

  • synaptogenesis and culling of excess neurons and then they never get to refresh

  • themselves and so maintenance is probably a vitally important function and I think

  • MECP2 may be one of the proteins that does that.

  • So, that's just a hypothesis at this point.

  • So, prospects for therapy, you could do all sorts of things.

  • And for time reasons, I'm not going to go through this.

  • I'm just going to talk about our attempts to do gene therapy.

  • The dose of this protein is critical. So, gene therapy doesn't sound very

  • promising. But I'm just going to show you some

  • results. Because I think gene therapy or more

  • likely, gene editing, is the logical end point of the genomics revolution.

  • Having found all these genetic variability associated with disease what better than

  • to be able to fix it. And I feel that where, this is what's

  • going to take awhile of basically engineering to find out exactly how we

  • should do that. So, this by comparison with that

  • aspiration, is very primitive. This is a Adeno-associated virus.

  • And the experiments here were done in collaboration with Gail Mandel of Howard

  • Hughes Medical Institute in Oregon and her laboratory and[UNKNOWN] Helene Cheval did

  • the experiments as well. So we take this, this MECP2 promoter.

  • We drive a, a truncated MECP2 gene, not much fits into these viruses, and they

  • don't replicate. You then, in put them in and there are 2

  • ways. And you can go directly into the brain

  • through 6 bore holes in the brain which is very laborious.

  • And this doesn't actually work very well. But what Gail Mandel's lab did was to use

  • this virus in an unexpected way, namely, to put it in the systemic circulation

  • system. So, put it in through the facial vein or

  • through the tail vein and then, in females that are 7 to 12 months old.

  • So, this is the real rats model and ask what happens and their, their improvements

  • are quite dramatic. This is rotter rod, it's a wheel you put a

  • mouse on, turn it round slowly and they fall off.

  • But it takes them a while to fall off. And actually, the first day they fall off

  • more quickly than the second day when they've learned a bit, and then the third

  • day, they're a bit better. The animals, without MECP2 we've stopped

  • MECP2 acquired sorry, without MECP2 acquired bad at this.

  • But then, if you put in this virus, you're getting a significant improvement.

  • This is the so-called inverted grid test, which is simply taking the lid off the

  • cage, and turning it upside down. So, that's rather a fancy name for that.

  • And you see how long before they fall off. And you see that the red the red bar is

  • the way they are when you without MECP2. And these, these are the rescued mice,

  • they've improved a lot. And the third test, and there are other

  • tests I could show you, is the nesting test.

  • You weigh a certain amount of nesting materials, you plonk it in the cage and

  • then the next day you come back and see how much of it they've used to make a

  • nest. So it gives you a number.

  • And the not much of it is gone with the mutant mice.

  • A lot is gone with the normal mice, and the rescued mice are vastly better.

  • So I'll finish up by showing you as the final thing, a couple of mice.

  • This is not as good as an experiment that I showed you before.

  • There, I showed you one mouse before and after.

  • This is, for obvious reasons a mouse that's had the virus, treated with an

  • empty virus so it has the virus but it didn't have anything in it.

  • And this is the, this is the way, it, the symptoms looked in a females, that almost

  • you can imagine the high, the, the, the, the limb clasping very immobile and

  • clearly not that healthy. And then, this is an example of a mouse

  • that whirls like that. But now as, as a result, it's a different

  • mouse as a result of receiving the virus, it's vastly improved.

  • This is the data of Saurabh Garg in the Mandel Laboratory with whom we are

  • collaborating. So this, I would hesitate to say that this

  • is a therapy that necessarily can be adapted to humans rapidly because the

  • viral load would be colossal. The amount that gets into the brain is

  • relatively small and 10% of humans have antibodies against these viruses anyway.

  • But it's a basis. So, research into the causes of Rett

  • Syndrome is currently a hot area in biomedical science.

  • Epigenetics, yes, the epigenomes disturbed in these mice and brain autism, these are

  • fascinating areas that are combined in this in this field.

  • Findings over the past decades, actually changed our perception of this disorder

  • and by implication of others. And by that, I mean, reversibility,

  • because it was thought to be impossible. The search for potential therapies is

  • going on a pace. I showed you what we're doing.

  • We are far from a learn, there's lots going on, and no approach is yet proven to

  • work clinically. There is a way to go yet, unfortunately,

  • it's frustrating that one feels one is quite close if only one could engineer

  • something that would do it. And the goal remains to discover robust

  • treatments that either reduce or even eliminate the burden of Rett Syndrome.

  • So, just to summarize then the whole thing, we've ranged over quite a lot.

  • Epigenetics is more or less how the genome of living things is organized and managed.

  • It's a high level word. There's no worry about exactly what it

  • means. Every definition is, encompasses

  • fascinating biology. Cg is a genome signaling module, module.

  • It's very short, it sounds too short to be useful but I hope you're persuaded that

  • actually it is used as a way of, say, adapting regions, adapting regions of the

  • genome to their function. Proteins that read different chemical

  • forms of CG, unmethylated, methylated, lead to contrasting biological outcomes.

  • And mismanaged, disorganized epigenomes are involved in disease.

  • And the extent to which they are involved in disease, is actually profoundly

  • unknown. And, for that reason, epigenome

  • manipulation, for example, pharmacologically, may have therapeutic

  • value in diversed human disorders. Epigenetic drugs, so-called, are already

  • in the clinic, the histone deacetylase is its inhibitors, etc.

  • And there are far more in the pipeline. I would say that we don't really know what

  • they're gonna be good for. Because there could be all sorts of

  • disorders where global epigenome mech, manipulation has a consequence.

  • And so, I think we're in for exciting times.

  • This is my lab. I, this is not my whole lab.

  • This is just, it's people who were in my lab, whose data I've shown.

  • People who are in my lab, whose, some of whose data I've shown.

  • Gail Mandel, who I'm grateful to for allowing me to use our the, her data the

  • data that was generated in her lab on the gene therapy.

  • Brian Kaspar, who made the viruses for her and, and us.

  • And Stuart Cobb and colleagues from Glasgow University who are our nearest,

  • tell us about neuroscience of which we're ignorant.

  • And finally, all this plethora of funding agencies from the very small to the very

  • large who have made our work possible over the years.

  • And this is my lab. I wanted to go to north of Scotland for

  • our retreat. They wanted to go somewhere hot and they

  • won. So, this is Barcelona again.

  • Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Adrian for a splendid

  • lecture, and, and Adrian will now take questions for ten minutes or so.

  • There's one over there. If you if you have a question, if you'd

  • like to ask one, put your hand up in advance, there are two roving mics so we

  • can send one near you so that we can keep the questions coming.

  • >> Hi there you recently published an article in The New Scientist, about

  • epigenetics I wonder if you've got time just to mention a little bit about the

  • post mortem suicide data that you came across.

  • You weren't able to talk about it at length in your article, but I wondered if

  • you could briefly mention a point about that?

  • >> It's not my data, it's, it's a report that people who had committed suicide

  • claiming to have been abused as children were, had a different degree of

  • methylation of a stress hormone receptor promoter in their brains.

  • And I don't feel, and I'm not sure the authors would feel despite their elevated

  • status of the publication, that they have achieved statistical significance with

  • just 12 and also leaving out, as it says in the method section, outliers, that

  • presumably didn't fall within their average.

  • So, I feel if you know, the way you treat your children becomes hardwired in, into

  • their lives at, through this epigenomic mechanism I feel before one announces that

  • to the world, one has to be pretty sure. And I don't feel, in this case, they could

  • be. >> At the back.

  • >> If there's a guard, guardian of the genome, is there a guardian of the

  • epigenome? >> Sorry, I missed the very first phrase.

  • >> If there's a guardian of a genome, is there a guardian of the epigenome?

  • >> A guard, is there a guardian of the epigenome, I don't know, this is a phrase

  • and people, I mean, guardians of the genome are proteins like P53 that takes

  • steps when the genome is damaged. It's not really clear if damaging the

  • epigenome. The epigenome is quite in a state of flux.

  • There is no one epigenome. Now, that's really the problem with

  • epigenome analysis, epigenomic analysis. Every cell type will have a different one

  • and actually, do , so it depends on your stance, some people believe that the

  • epigenome is somewhat fixed and the genes operate within this rather inflexible set

  • of rules. I, from what I have seen, find the

  • epigenome does what its told by the genes and their transcription factors.

  • In a way, the epigenome adapts the genome to its function as determined by other

  • proteins. Now, that's, there's a question of degree

  • between those 2 extremes. But I don't see the epigenome as something

  • that gets fixed, and then is transmitted forever, and you can't do anything about

  • it and even your grandchildren can't do anything about it, two generations later.

  • That, there may be some of that going on. But I feel it's likely to be far less than

  • is sometimes suggested. It's dried up the questions.

  • >> Another one, 4 rows from the back. Oh, there's one here.

  • Okay. Speaker:[cough] Why does it take so long

  • for clinical symptoms to become manifest, both in the mice and in the humans?

  • >> Let, that's a very good question. We actually haven't the faintest idea, I

  • mean, you could argue so in the case of humans, the time when they get it, 18

  • months of age is a time of great activity in the brain.

  • And so, you, that sort of fuels the idea that this is a neurodevelopmental disorder

  • and you only really start getting the problems when the brain is going through

  • particular types of dance of the neurons in particular synaptogenesis .

  • But actually, in the, in the mouse, if one looks at that, these mice are 6 months

  • old, they're, they're not going through any developmental processes at all as far

  • as we know, they're, they're just gradually aging like, like the rest of us.

  • So in that case, it doesn't quite fit. And I think that the alternative

  • hypothesis is, that without MECP2, the functional half life of your neurons, not

  • their lives but their functional half life is reduced.

  • And they, you, you've crossed some threshold at which the brain stops to,

  • stops working properly. But actually, I don't have a satisfactory

  • answer for your question. So, it's, it's one of the key questions.

  • >> Hi, my questions is about gene therapy and one of the limitations of this is that

  • you can't cause large enough change throughout the entire tissue to correct

  • the fault. And I was wondering whether or not you

  • thought that gene therapy had greater therapeutic impications for epigenetic

  • disease rather than genetic disease. >> Well, I'm not quite sure about the link

  • between the first bit of your, I mean, I agree with the, the, the reservation that

  • you have to hit a high, a high percentage of cells.

  • Actually, these adeno-associated viruses do that.

  • They've selected stereotypes. They're all naturally occurring, none of

  • them have been engineered in any way and so there's scope to improve them.

  • But they spread throughout the brain so the systematic injection if you look in

  • the brain, it's everywhere. So, it, it does get everywhere and if you

  • do the injection into the brain, and these are, there are clinical trials now

  • for[UNKNOWN] disease, lysosomal storage disease where there are 6 bore holes and

  • they're putting it in and they're getting a big spread through the brain of the,

  • this virus. They don't, they don't divide, and they

  • keep churning out the protein for a very long time.

  • So, I think that sort of thing can be solved.

  • I wouldn't say that gene therapy, I mean, gene therapy, this is a blunder buster

  • approach. You've got, you're shoving in an

  • uncontrolled number of genomes into cells different numbers into different cells.

  • It's, it's the primitive end of what hopefully ultimately will be a rather

  • sophisticated therapy. But I wouldn't say it's for epigenetic,

  • rather than genetic. I haven't seen anything that suggests to

  • me that it prefers one or the other. >> Well, I, I was also going to ask,

  • whether or not it was the case of being the opposite when you said that the, the

  • epigenome was constantly in flux. So, does that mean using gene therapy to

  • try and to correct the epigenome is actually more difficult than gene therapy?

  • >> What you've got to remember is that Rett Syndrome is a genetic disorder.

  • It's, it's it affects the epigenome. There, there aren't epigenetic disorders

  • and genetic disorders necessarily. This, the, the, the, the mutation is a

  • standard mutation in a gene, and it's inherited in a Mandelian manner if you,

  • you know, in those very rare families where it's transmitted.

  • So it's a genetic disorder that effects the epigenome.

  • It's not an epigenetic or genetic disorder.

  • >> So, so, Adrian, do, do the virus treated mice, do they stay cured?

  • >> Well. >> Or do they get well again when they get

  • older? >> That's a good question and we don't

  • know because actually those pictures were only taken within the last 4 weeks.

  • They've lived for four weeks beyond that. >> One at the very back.

  • >> But actually, the model experiments say that these things are expressed for a very

  • long time. They don't ever get integrated, and for

  • that reason, it seems they don't seem so susceptible to being shut down by the

  • epigenetic mechanisms that are scouting for strange things in the genome.

  • >> Hello. What's your feeling about the big

  • psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia and bipolar affective disorder and so on?

  • Do you think your research in these epigenomatic processes, approaches are

  • going to be important for those? >> I don't know, there's a, you know

  • people argue about autism. As to whether or not it's more

  • environmental than genetic. And there's now really quite strong

  • evidence that it's genetic. But it's not one genetic disorder.

  • It's hundreds of genetic disorders, actually, literally.

  • There are very many genes that are contributing to autism.

  • That's why it's been so difficult to pin down genetically.

  • So, I would say autism, this work is related to you know, relevant to, it's

  • difficult to know psychiatric disorders. You know, they tend to, autism, despite

  • being caused by large numbers of different genes, where almost no two patients have

  • the same set of genetic lesions, nevertheless have common presentations,

  • features that are in common among them. So, it's almost as though when there are

  • problems with the brain, it gravitates towards certain types of behavior.

  • So, either it doesn't work at all, in which case, survival is, is in question or

  • it gravitates toward certain types of presentation.

  • So, in other words, it says more about the way in which the brain can cope than about

  • the function of the proteins. Now, I, I would say schizophrenia is a

  • very interesting question. They're having meetings about

  • schizophrenia and bipolar, always been groups that go off and talk about the

  • possibility that's it's pure, called what's purely by epigenetics and the

  • environment. But I think, increasingly, as more and

  • more sequencing gets done, my bias would be that they will find, we will find

  • genetic causes for these disorders, and then all of the[UNKNOWN] of ways of

  • dealing with genetic disorders will be drawn upon to try and fix that.

  • To me, one surprising thing of that, if I may,[UNKNOWN], the brain, you would have

  • thought, is the most inaccessible place to ever do stuff like gene therapy.

  • But actually, it's quite a good place because the cells don't divide, there's

  • not there is immune response in there but it's nowhere near as virulent as it is in

  • other places, so you can do more stuff in the brain and things will spread through

  • the brain, so maybe that will apply to the disorders you are talking about, but it's

  • really a long way away, I think. >> Is anyone working on Friedreich's

  • ataxia? >> Friedreich's ataxia?

  • >> Yes. That's where they.

  • >> Lots of people are working on, on Friedreich's ataxia but you're not talking

  • to the right person to ask about it unfortunately.

  • I mean, I, I, I would need a quick reminder about exactly what the lesion is,

  • is it DNA repair? I can't remember, can anyone remember?

  • Dna repair, yes, that would be very different if it's, if the lesions due to

  • DNA damage then, then that's not really quite in the league of epigenetics as

  • we've been discussing it. But rest assured, Friedreich's ataxia is a

  • very active area of research. >> Okay.

  • There's one there. Then, one in the green cardigan and then,

  • one against the wall and we might have to wrap it up that, that point.

  • >> Yeah. Fantastic talk, Adrian.

  • It's interesting that you observed obesity in the, the mice.

  • Were any aspects of feeding or weights changed with the adeno virus treatment?

  • >> Well, unfortunately, we've never really investigated that.

  • I think they don't eat more, I think it's probably but, but we don't really know.

  • All I can tell you when you do the reversal, it's the nicest thing to watch,

  • you just simply watch them come down over a period of three weeks, their weight goes

  • from being obese to being normal. So, but on the other hand, we're, we're

  • activating MECP2 in every cell in the body.

  • And that actually is an area we're interested in now because are there also

  • peripheral, neuroscientists call everything that isn't the brain, the

  • periphery, for some reason but are there peripheral phenotypes that we've been

  • missing, perhaps. >> Okay, I hope these are two quick

  • questions. >> Hello, I was just, just to ask about

  • that. So you, can you see more[UNKNOWN] cells in

  • other organisms, or organs, and does they have >> We've never looked.

  • >> And some genotype. And, and, another more thing, so if it's

  • not like that, it means that in some cases, some cells will be dying because

  • they don't express it, and so they are kind of selected and because in the brain

  • they cannot. >> No, but that's, that doesn't happen,

  • you see. >> Okay.

  • >> You, you, you can, the cells without it don't die.

  • That's why reversal is such an interesting possibility, and in fact, with respect

  • to[UNKNOWN] and other tissues, there are so, there's quite a variation in the

  • severity of Rett Syndrome. And quite often, it's due to skewed x

  • chromosome inactivation in the population. There's quite a variation, it isn't always

  • 50-50, half of the paternal, half of the maternal.

  • Quite often, it's very skewed, like one in 10, one in 20 one in one and two in 10,

  • it's very skewed. When the skewing is against the mutated

  • version, the symptoms are much milder and so you get what's called a speech

  • preserved version where, you know, there, there is a spectrum to normality.

  • Now, you did measure that by looking at the blood.

  • So, presume, whatever you find in the blood looks as though, quite often, it

  • reflects what's going on in the brain. >> Okay, thanks.

  • Is there one last one? >> Thank you.

  • Do all animals have epigenomes? Or is it just a characteristic of the

  • higher animals? >> Even, even yeast has marks on its

  • genome. Actually, yeast doesn't have DNA

  • methylation. C elegans, this worm, doesn't have DNA

  • methylation. Drosophila melanogaster has virtually no

  • DNA methylation. So, the models that are quite often worked

  • on, don't. That's chosen actually quite often because

  • they're, they have a small genome rapid generation time.

  • But those animals, nevertheless, have what one would call an epigenome, because they

  • have histone tails covered in marks. So, these are quite conserved to,

  • throughout all, all organisms that one would call eukaryotes.

  • That's animals, plants, fungi. >> Okay on that affinitive note, the I

  • think we could have kept on going for much longer with the questions but Adrian has

  • another rest of his program to get through, so I was asked to bring this to a

  • halt the floor, the floor now actually. I think you've done rather well out of it.

  • As expected, Adrian has given us a wonderful lecture, wide ranging, quite

  • challenging and he has covered a, a very large area so thank you very much for

  • that. And now, I want, going to ask Patrick

  • Vallance, who is the President for Pharmaceutical R&D at GSK to come and

  • present Adrian with his medal. Patrick joined GSK as Head of Drug

  • Discovery, I think in 2000? 2000 and 2006.

  • And he's now President of R&D Pharmaceuticals.

  • What's that? Oh, yes he's the man with the monies.

  • He's the one actually giving the check. >> Yeah, I'm the man with the check.

  • And you're giving the medal. Adrian, thank you very much, it was

  • absolutely terrific, and it's a real privilege, for GSK to be able to fund this

  • lecture and prize. And it's been a privilege for GSK, or its

  • precursor companies, for 32 years, as Jean said, that we started with the Wellcome

  • Foundation in 1980, and then, GlaxoWellcome, and now, GSK.

  • And some things have stayed constant over those times and some things have changed.

  • The company is much, much bigger. The company is totally global.

  • And, of course, the whole nature of drug discovery and development has changed.

  • But some things have stayed constant. And one of the things that stayed constant

  • is our base in the UK and our commitment to the UK and just about 50% of our R&D

  • activity is in the UK. And one of the reasons that we're here is

  • excellence of the science base and I think that's been admirably demonstrated today,

  • Adrian, by what you've said and, of course, is embedded in the values in of

  • this institution. The second thing that stay constant,

  • perhaps not constant, but in a way, started at the beginning, and is very,

  • very important to us now, is a very close working relationship with academics.

  • I think it was absolutely the hallmark of the Wellcome Foundation.

  • And I think it's absolutely the hallmark of what we're doing now.

  • And it's perhaps no surprise, that I think it was 5 or 6 years ago when we decided

  • that we needed to understand what the opportunities were in epigenetics for drug

  • discovery. We reached out to the very leading

  • academics in this field to find out what we should be thinking about.

  • And Adrian, it was you that came in to talk to some of our team to help us to get

  • started on that. So, it's terrific to hear this today.

  • Unbelievably impressive and Jean gives the lasting thing, which is the medal and I

  • give the transient thing, which is the money.

  • But I hope it brings some pleasure and thank you very much indeed.

  • >> Thank you very much. Thank you very much, thank you.

>> Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the 2013 Royal Society GlaxoSmithKline Prize

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