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  • >>> GOOD EVENING.

  • WELCOME TO KQED "NEWSROOM."

  • I'M THUY VU.

  • TECH COMPANIES ARE UNDER

  • INCREASING PRESSURE TO SHOW

  • PROGRESS.

  • APPLE, INTEL AND OTHER FIRMS

  • WILL BE MEETING TO PRESS THEM TO

  • DIVERSE THEIR WORKFORCES.

  • WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT ONE

  • ASPECT OF THIS PROBLEM, THE

  • GENDER GAP.

  • YAHOO!'S MARISA AND FACEBOOK'S

  • SHERYL SANDBERG ARE THE

  • EXCEPTION, NOT THE RULE IN

  • SILICON VALLEY.

  • WOMEN ARE UNDERREPRESENTED.

  • AT YAHOO! WOMEN MAKE UP 37% OF

  • THE WORKFORCE.

  • AT FACEBOOK, 32% OF THE

  • EMPLOYEES ARE FEMALE.

  • AT GOOGLE, 30% ARE WOMEN.

  • MOST SOFTWARE ENGINEERS ARE MEN

  • AND SO ARE MOST OF THE

  • EXECUTIVES.

  • LIKE TO WORK IN THAT

  • MALE-DOMINATED WORLD.

  • >> I'M A SOLUTION ENGINEER.

  • >> MY NAME IS EMA.

  • I'M A SOFTWARE ENGINEER.

  • >> MY NAME IS ZOE AND I'M A

  • SOFTWARE ENGINEER.

  • >> MY NAME IS ZOE AND I'M A

  • WEB FRAMEWORK CALLED RAILS.

  • YOU MIGHT HEAR THE TERM RUBY ON

  • RAILS.

  • >> I LEARNED PYTHON RECENTLY AND

  • EVEN DAB BELLED WITH A VERY OLD,

  • LOW LEVEL LANGUAGE.

  • AND THE SERVICES I CAN PROVIDE

  • RANGE FROM CONSULTING AND

  • ADVISING AROUND HOW TO USE

  • TECHNOLOGY TO BUILD SOLUTIONS

  • ALL THE WAY DOWN TO ACTUALLY

  • BUILDING OUT YOUR FIRST

  • PROTOTYPE.

  • BUILT

  • CLASSES IN COLLEGE BUT THE

  • EXPERIENCE IS ALIENATING.

  • THE COURSES WERE 90% MALE.

  • I LOOKED AROUND AT ME AND THE

  • PEOPLE WHO ALREADY NEW

  • PROGRAMMING AND THEY WERE SO FAR

  • ADVANCED I DIDN'T THINK I COULD

  • CATCH UP.

  • IS INSANE BECAUSE I ACTUALLY

  • LIKE TO PROGRAM.

  • IT'S JUST THE WAY THE SYSTEM WAS

  • SET UP.

  • >> I GOT INTO TECHNOLOGY BECAUSE

  • MY MOM MADE ME.

  • [ LAUGHTER ]

  • MY MOM IS JUST REALLY VERY

  • SMART, WONDERFUL INCREDIBLE

  • WOMAN.

  • IE

  • SHE RAISED EIGHT KIDS ON HER OWN

  • AND SHE COULD SEE -- SHE WAS

  • VERY FORWARD THINKING AND COULD

  • SEE THAT TECHNOLOGY WAS GOING TO

  • RUN THE WORLD.

  • AND SHE GAVE ME A SOFTWARE BOOK,

  • A PROGRAMMING BOOK, SHE SAID

  • YOU'RE GOING TO DO THIS EVERY

  • DAY UNTIL YOU FIGURE IT OUT.

  • >> THE FIRST PERSON WHO ASKED ME

  • IF I WANTED TO BE A SOFTWARE

  • ENGINEER WAS A WOMAN AT AN EVENT

  • AND SHE IS LIKE, DO YOU WANT TO

  • BE A SOFTWARE ENGINEER, ARE YOU

  • THINKING ABOUT IT?

  • I'M LIKE YEAH.

  • AND I VERY BEGRUDGINGLY ADMITTED

  • IT AND SHE'S LIKE, YES!

  • >> WOMEN ARE HALF THE POPULATION

  • OF THE WORLD AND WE NEED TO MAKE

  • SURE THAT THEY HAVE THEIR PART

  • IN CREATING THE TECHNOLOGY THAT

  • IS GOING TO MAKE THE WORLD

  • BETTER FOR EVERYONE, INCLUDING

  • WOMEN.

  • G

  • AT LEAST 5 TO 10% OF YOUR TIME,

  • IF YOU'RE A WOMAN, IS BEING A

  • WOMAN.

  • AND IT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO

  • FIGURE OUT HOW TO VIEW WOMEN IN

  • A MALE-DOMINATED ENVIRONMENT.

  • >> NOW, IN HINDSIGHT, I

  • DEFINITELY REALIZE THERE WERE

  • LOTS OF OBSTACLES.

  • THERE WERE LOTS OF INCIDENTS

  • THAT I JUST CHOSE TO IGNORE.

  • I HAD TO WORK MUCH HARDER TO GET

  • NOTICED FOR MY WORK.

  • I HAVE TO WORK HARDER TO FIGURE

  • OUT HOW TO INTERRUPT PEOPLE BUT

  • BE REALLY POLITE ABOUT IT.

  • >> I'M ALWAYS KEENLY OBSERVING

  • WHEN I SAY, I'M ACTUALLY A

  • SOFTWARE ENGINEER AND YOU CAN

  • SEE THEM FOR A SECOND AND THEN

  • YOU'RE LIKE, OH, THAT'S COOL.

  • IT'S ALWAYS LIKE A POSITIVE

  • REACTION BUT THERE'S A MOMENT OF

  • SURPRISE.

  • >> WOMEN ARE MORE THAN MEN AND

  • IF YOU BRING IT UP, IT'S

  • SOMETHING THAT NOBODY HAS

  • NOTICED BEFORE AND IT'S A WEIRD

  • CONVERSATION TO HAVE.

  • NO>> THERE ARE OTHER DIVERSITYD

  • ISSUES THAT MIGHT BE EVEN MORE,

  • YOU KNOW, PROBLEMATIC, LIKE

  • WHERE ARE ALL OF THE OLD PEOPLE

  • GO.

  • WH>> THE SECRET IN HIRING MOREE

  • WOMEN IS KEEPING THE ONES THAT

  • YOU HAVE.

  • A LOT OF WOMEN WANT TO WORK WITH

  • OTHER SOFTWARE ENGINEERS.

  • NOBODY WANTS TO BE THE FIRST

  • ENGINEER OUT OF 20 WHO IS A

  • WOMAN.

  • OA

  • I WANT TO ASK OUR PANEL NOWHT.

  • ABOUT WHAT THEY JUST HEARD.

  • JOINING ME ARE RUPERT, FOUNDER

  • OF CODECHICKS.ORG, A NONPROFIT

  • DEDICATED TO INCREASING THE

  • NUMBER OF WOMEN ENGINEERS,

  • SOPHIE LEE, A RIDE SHARING

  • PROGRAM FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN

  • AND AN ASSOCIATE VENTURE

  • PARTNERS.

  • WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

  • WE HEARD ABOUT RETENTION, WE

  • HEARD ABOUT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT

  • HOW TO BE A WOMAN IN A

  • MALE-DOMINATED WORLD.

  • DID ANY OF THOSE MESSAGES

  • RESONATE WITH YOU?

  • LUPA?

  • RE>> ABSOLUTELY.U?

  • ALL OF THEM RESONATED.

  • ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M

  • TRYING TO DO WITH CODE CHICK IS

  • ADDRESS THE RETENTION PROBLEM.

  • ACCORDING TO STATICS, AS OF

  • 2013, THERE'S A 56 PERCENT DROP

  • FROM INJURIES AND LATELY THERE'S

  • A LOT OF FOCUS ON THE PIPELINE

  • ISSUE AS IN GETTING MORE WOMEN

  • TO COME INTO THE INDUSTRY.

  • BUT NOT AS MUCH FOCUS ON THE

  • WOMEN THAT ARE ALREADY IN THERE

  • AND THAT ARE LEAVING AND THE

  • REASONS FOR THEIR LEAVING.

  • SO THIS IS A VERY, VERY

  • IMPORTANT TOPIC, AS YOU JUST

  • SAW.

  • >> AND SOPHIE, YOU'RE HEAD OF

  • THE ENGINEERING AT SHUTTLE.

  • WHAT PART OF THAT VIDEO

  • RESONATED WITH YOU AND HOW DO

  • YOU RETAIN WOMEN?

  • >> I MEAN, THE PART OF THE VIDEO

  • THAT RESONATED WITH ME MOST WAS

  • THAT THERE WAS EVEN A VIDEO.

  • I FEEL LIKE THREE OF US ARE

  • SITTING THERE AND WE SAW THREE

  • AWESOME WOMEN TALKING ABOUT

  • THEIR EXPERIENCES.

  • MET

  • THIS REALLY EXCITING TURNING

  • POINT WHERE WOMEN ARE GETTING

  • RECOGNIZED AND ARE STARTING TO

  • ENTER THE ENGINEERING FIELD.

  • AND I'M NOT SURE HOW TO RETAIN

  • WOMEN.

  • AND I'M NOT SURE HOW TO RETAIN

  • ABOUT HOW DO YOU RETAIN PEOPLE.

  • WOMEN ARE PEOPLE JUST LIKE

  • EVERYONE ELSE.

  • I THINK IF YOU'RE ABLE TO CREATE

  • A TEAM ENVIRONMENT WHERE

  • EVERYBODY IS RECOGNIZED AND

  • GIVING A CHANCE TO LISTENED TO,

  • YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP

  • THE WOMEN.

  • >> CECILIA, DID YOU FEEL

  • FAMILIARITY THERE?

  • >> YES.

  • IT WAS PROBABLY 20 TO 30

  • FOUNDERS AND WEEK THAT WE MET

  • WITH AND I HATE TO SAY A SMALL

  • NUMBER OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE

  • USUALLY WOMEN.

  • SOMETIMES THEY WILL GO ALL WEEK

  • AND NOT SEE A FEMALE FOUNDER AT

  • ALL.

  • PART OF THAT IS THAT FREQUENTLY

  • FOUNDERS ARE TECHNICAL AND THERE

  • ARE LESS WOMEN IN ENGINEERING.

  • IT'S A PROBLEM THAT WE NEED TO

  • SOLVE.

  • >> SO HOW DO YOU SOLVE THAT IN

  • WHEN YOU'RE CONSIDERING

  • INVESTING IN A COMPANY, HOW

  • IMPORTANT IS DIVERSITY TO YOU?

  • DO YOU ASK THEM, ARE THERE WOMEN

  • ON YOUR LEADERSHIP TEAM?

  • >> IT'S SOMETHING FREQUENTLY NOT

  • ASKED BUT THERE WILL BE A SLIDE

  • THAT SAYS, HERE'S OUR TEAM AND

  • WHEN I SEE A TEAM THAT'S ONLY

  • MALE EXECUTIVES, ESPECIALLY ONLY

  • WHITE MALE EXECUTIVES, I WILL

  • MAKE A MENTAL NOTE AND SAY, WOW,

  • THIS TEAM IS NOT THINKING ABOUT

  • DIVERSITY IN THE SAME WAY.

  • I KNOW THAT THERE'S A PIPELINE

  • PROBLEM AND I KNOW THAT IS ALSO

  • NOT AN EXCUSE BUT SOMETHING WE

  • FACTOR IN.

  • >> SO, THEN, HOW DO YOU ADDRESS

  • THAT BECAUSE IF YOU SEE A SLIDE

  • AND IT'S ALL MALES.

  • >> YEAH.

  • >> DO YOU SAY TO THEM, YOU NEED

  • TO HAVE A FEMALE EXECUTIVES OR

  • HAVE YOU INTERVIEWED ANY FEMALES

  • FOR THIS JOB?

  • >> WE WILL NOT PUT THEM ON A

  • SPOT IN A PITCH MEETING BUT IT'S

  • A RELATIONSHIP THAT'S GOING TO

  • EXIST FOR AT LEAST THREE YEARS,

  • PROBABLY CLOSER TO SEVEN OR TEN.

  • SO AS YOU SPEND TIME WITH THEM,

  • YOU HAVE DINNERS AND THEN YOU

  • KIND OF ADDRESS DIVERSITY ISSUES

  • AND TALK ABOUT, WHAT ARE YOU

  • LOOKING TO BUILD IN A TEAM?

  • WHAT ARE YOUR PRIORITIES IN YOUR

  • CULTURE?

  • CULTURE PILLARS THAT MAKE UP A

  • COMPANY AND SAY THIS IS A PLACE

  • WHERE ALL PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE

  • WELCOME OR THIS TEAM FEELS VERY

  • CLOSED AND MIGHT SUFFER AS A

  • RESULT.

  • >> SOPHIE, WOMEN MAKE UP HALF OF

  • YOUR ENGINEERING TEAM AT

  • SHUTTLE, WHICH IS PRETTY

  • ASTOUNDING BECAUSE MOST

  • HIGH-TECH COMPANIES HELP AROUND

  • 70/30, RIGHT?

  • 70 MALE AND 30% FEMALE.

  • TELL US --

  • >> MAYBE.

  • TELL US --

  • >> USUALLY WELL BELOW 20%.

  • >> OKAY.

  • >> WELL, TELL US ABOUT YOUR

  • HIRING PROCESS.

  • AND HOW DID YOU GET IT TO 50%?

  • >> I THINK TO -- TO REACH THE

  • DIVERSITY THAT WE WERE ABLE TO

  • HAVE AT SHUTTLE, THE THING ABOUT

  • DIVERSITY IS WHEN YOU SEE IT AS

  • A BENCHMARK THAT HIT, THAT'S NOT

  • GOING TO DO IT.

  • I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING TO

  • SEE DIVERSITY, TO UNDERSTAND WHY

  • IT'S SO IMPORTANT, RIGHT, IF YOU

  • HAVE A ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE THAT

  • EVERYBODY IS THE SAME, EVERYBODY

  • IS A WHITE MALE, YOU'RE GOING TO

  • END UP WITH A VERY

  • ONE-DIMENSIONAL PRODUCT IN A

  • VERY ONE-DIMENSIONAL COMPANY.

  • STARTING OUT WITH THE WHY AND

  • UNDERSTANDING WHY IT'S IMPORTANT

  • WAS THE FIRST IMPORTANT THING

  • WITHOUT HIRING A STRATEGY AT

  • SHUTTLE.

  • WITHOUT HIRING A STRATEGY AT

  • TO HIRE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE

  • FRIENDS WITH.

  • YOU WANT TO WORK WITH PEOPLE

  • JUST LIKE YOU.

  • BUT LIKE -- THAT'S NOT GOING TO

  • WORK BECAUSE THE WORLD ISN'T

  • FULL OF PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST LIKE

  • YOU.

  • FULL SO TAKING IT FROM THAT LIKE

  • PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, IT'S

  • ABOUT BEING UNCOMFORTABLE AND

  • TRYING TO MEET PEOPLE, GO TO

  • EVENTS, FIND NEW CIRCLES OF

  • PEOPLE WHO JUST NOT LIKE YOU.

  • I THINK GETTING UNCOMFORTABLE

  • WAS THE SECOND STEP.

  • >> THAT'S VERY INTERESTING.

  • CECELIA ALLUDED TO THIS EARLIER,

  • THE PIPELINE PROBLEM.

  • WE KEEP ON HEARING ABOUT THAT.

  • WE NEED MORE WOMEN AND GIRLS,

  • FOR EXAMPLE.

  • BUT HOW MUCH OF THE GENDER GAP

  • IS ACTUALLY A PIPELINE PROBLEM

  • AND HOW MUCH OF IT IS MORE OF A

  • PROBLEM WITH A WORKPLACE CULTURE

  • THAT IS PERHAPS NOT FRIENDLY TO

  • WOMEN?

  • O

  • SEPARATE ISSUES.

  • THE PIPELINE PROBLEM IS MORE THE

  • GIRLS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL, HIGH

  • SCHOOL, COLLEGE, GRADUATION

  • RATES AND ALSO GRADUATION WITHIN

  • THE STEM AREAS.

  • SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE THAT IS A

  • PROBLEM.

  • SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE THAT IS A

  • A FEDERAL LEVEL WITH A LOT OF

  • FEDERAL FUNDING TOWARDS THOSE

  • INITIATIVES.

  • LE

  • PROBLEM FOR WORKPLACE CULTURE

  • AND WHY TALENTED WOMEN, WHO HAVE

  • BEEN IN THE INDUSTRY FOR MANY

  • YEARS, ARE LEAVING THE INDUSTRY.

  • AND SOME OF THOSE ISSUES ARE

  • RELATED TO ADVANCEMENT,

  • PROMOTIONS, THE TYPE OF WORK

  • THAT THEY DO USUALLY YOU WILL

  • HEAR THINGS LIKE, OH, YOU KNOW,

  • WOMEN NEED EXTRA BALANCE BECAUSE

  • OF FAMILIES, ET CETERA, THAT HAS

  • NOT ACTUALLY BEEN THE KEY POINT

  • FOR WOMEN LEAVING.

  • IT'S -- THERE WAS A STUDY ON

  • THIS AND THEY CAME UP WITH

  • ALMOST 70% OF WOMEN LEAVE

  • BECAUSE THEY SAY THEY ARE NOT

  • GETTING PROMOTED, THEY ARE NOT

  • GETTING GOOD PROJECTS TO DO THE

  • GOOD WORK, TO SHOW CASE

  • THEMSELVES AND GET AHEAD IN

  • THEIR CAREERS.

  • THAT ITSELF IS ONE OF THE

  • ISSUES.

  • SO WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS THE

  • SKILL PROBLEM.

  • WHEN SOMEBODY IS IN AN INDUSTRY

  • AND WORKING FULL TIME, YOU'RE

  • VERY FOCUSED ON WHATEVER IT IS

  • YOU'RE WORKING ON.

  • YOU'RE DEVELOPING SKILLS JUST IN

  • THAT.

  • INDUSTRY IS GOING UP LIKE AT

  • BREAK NECK SPEED WITH NEW

  • TECHNOLOGY AND TOOLS COMING OUT.

  • TO KEEP UP WITH THAT IS

  • EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.

  • ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN WHO HAVE

  • FAMILIES THEY HAVE TO TAKE CARE

  • OF, FULL-TIME JOB, YOU KNOW,

  • JUST NOT ENOUGH HOURS IN THE DAY

  • TO DO THAT.

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GREATER WORKPLACE

  • CULTURE ISSUE THAT YOU TALKED

  • ABOUT?

  • CULTURE ISSUE THAT YOU TALKED

  • CECILA?

  • >> I THINK IT'S DOABLE.

  • I DON'T THINK CULTURES ARE SET

  • IN STONE.

  • THEY ARE MADE UP OF PEOPLE.

  • WE CREATE A CULTURE WHEN WE SIT

  • IN THIS ROOM TOGETHER.

  • IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK

  • SOPHIE POINTED OUT REALLY WELL,

  • ADDRESSING THE WHY AT FIRST AND

  • THEN ADDRESSING GETTING

  • UNCOMFORTABLE AND TALKING ABOUT

  • IT AS A COMPANY.

  • ONE OF OUR INVESTMENTS IN

  • PINTREST, THEY'VE DONE A TON ON

  • IMPROVING DIVERSITY.

  • THEY ARE DOING TRAINING SO THEIR

  • MANAGER IS UNHEARD OF IT.

  • THEY ARE TAKING THE MANAGERS AND

  • SAYING, OKAY, TAKE A TEST.

  • NOW, LET'S SEE THAT YOU HAVE

  • BIASES AGAINST THESE KINDS OF

  • PEOPLE.

  • SO WHEN YOU'RE INTERVIEWING

  • THEM, BE AWARE OF THAT.

  • WATCH OUT THAT YOU INTERRUPT

  • THEM TOO EARLY, WATCH OUT THAT

  • YOU'RE NOT SORT OF SEEING THEM

  • THROUGH AND ARE POSITIONING

  • YOURSELF AGAINST THEM EVEN

  • THOUGH THEY MIGHT BE JUST AS

  • QUALITIED AS SOMEONE ELSE THAT

  • IS MORE SIMILAR TO YOU.

  • >> SPEAKING OF PINTREST.

  • THIS RELEASED THEIR DIVERSITY

  • GOALS THIS WEEK AND THEY

  • DISCUSSED THE NFL ALREADY DOES

  • THIS, WHERE YOU INTERVIEW AT

  • LEAST ONE PERSON FROM AN

  • UNDERREPRESENTED GROUP OR ONE

  • FEMALE.

  • >> UH-HUH.

  • >> FOR A LEADERSHIP POSITION.

  • IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK

  • SHOULD BE HAPPENING AT ALL TECH

  • COMPANIES?

  • H

  • DID.

  • HAVE.

  • WHAT'S HARD IS -- AND WE DO

  • THIS.

  • 'SO

  • MEMBER FOR A COMPANY.

  • THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT

  • THAT IS A BAD WAY TO APPROACH

  • THE PROBLEM.

  • GO FIND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE

  • MOST QUALIFIED AND GET THEM IN

  • THE ROOM AND HIRE THE BEST ONES.

  • TRYING TO SORT OF HIRE FOUR A

  • SPECIFIC DEMOGRAPHIC DOESN'T

  • MAKE SENSE.

  • SPECIFIC DEMOGRAPHIC DOESN'T

  • TO DO, PERSONALLY.

  • WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

  • >> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE

  • REALLY, REALLY HARD TO FIND, YOU

  • KNOW, A FEMALE REPRESENTATIVE

  • FOR WHATEVER X, Y, Z POSITION

  • YOU'RE TRYING TO FILL BECAUSE

  • THERE JUST AREN'T THAT MANY.

  • ESPECIALLY --

  • WOMEN.

  • >> I WOULD TOTALLY DISAGREE.

  • THE REASON THERE'S A PERCEPTION

  • THERE'S NOT THAT MANY FEMALE

  • ENGINEERS IS THAT WE'RE

  • ACTUALLY -- OUR SOCIAL CIRCLES

  • TEND TO STAY KIND OF STATIC.

  • WE LOOK AT OUR SOCIAL CIRCLES

  • AND SAY, OUT OF THE 200 PEOPLE I

  • REGULARLY INTERACT WITH, THIS

  • MANY ARE FEMALE ENGINEERS.

  • THERE ARE 7 BILLION PEOPLE IN

  • THE WORLD.

  • CONCRETE, I JUST WENT TO A

  • CONFERENCE EARLIER IN THE YEAR

  • WHICH IS AN EVEN MORE

  • FINALLY-GRAINED SEGMENT OF WOMEN

  • IN TECH.

  • WE FILLED THE ENTIRE THEATER.

  • THERE WERE 3,000 OF US.

  • YOU LOOK AROUND AND YOU REALIZE,

  • THERE ARE TOTALLY WOMEN IN TECH.

  • I'M JUST NOT LOOKING AT THE

  • RIGHT PLACES.

  • THAT WAS A WAKE-UP CALL FOR ME.

  • >> I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS

  • QUESTION ABOUT START-UPS.

  • MANY SAY SURVIVAL IS AN

  • ABSOLUTE --

  • >> YEAH.

  • >> AND NOT SO MUCH DIVERSITY.

  • JUST TRYING TO FIGHT TO SAVE

  • THEIR COMPANIES.

  • WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM?

  • >> DEPENDS ON WHAT STAGE.

  • AND IF YOU ARE A THREE-PERSON

  • STARTUP, DIVERSITY IS GREAT BUT

  • WHEN YOU'RE ADDING A FOURTH,

  • THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH THAT YOU

  • CAN DO.

  • YOU'RE TRYING TO HIRE

  • DESPERATELY.

  • YOU'RE TRYING TO HIRE

  • CHOOSE.

  • PLEASE GET TO JOIN ME?

  • WHO IS GOING TO BE GOOD ENOUGH

  • TO BUILD THIS COMPANY WITH US?

  • IF YOU'RE REALLY EARLY STAGE, IT

  • DEPENDS ON THE NETWORK.

  • I THINK GENERALIZING THAT THERE

  • ARE WOMEN IN TECH THAT ARE

  • GREAT, IT'S A LOT OF WHO YOU

  • KNOW.

  • GU

  • ARE MALE.

  • I HAVE A COUPLE FEMALE ENGINEERS

  • AND IF I'M INTENTIONAL OF

  • BUILDING MY NETWORK WITH WOMEN,

  • IT WILL BE SO EVEN MORE.

  • IT HAS TO DO WITH SURVIVAL AT

  • THE EARLY PART.

  • I HOPE YOU HAVE SOMEONE TALKING

  • ABOUT IT WHO CARES.

  • I THINK THE FIRST STEP IS REALLY

  • THE EMPATHY AND UNDERSTANDING

  • THAT THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM ON

  • OUR HANDS, THAT WE NEED TO SOLVE

  • TO MAKE OUR COMPANY BETTER.

  • SO THE THING ABOUT CULTURE IS

  • IMPORTANT THERE.

  • >> GIVING IT A THOUGHT IS ONE

  • THING.

  • E

  • CHANGE WILL HAPPEN?

  • COMPANIES HAVE BEEN PROMISING

  • FOR YEARS THAT THEY WILL

  • DIVERSIFY THEIR WORKFORCE.

  • THE NUMBERS HAVEN'T REALLY

  • MOVED.

  • HP HAS BEEN RELEASING ITS

  • NUMBERS FOR MORE THAN A DECADE.

  • 30% OF ITS WORKFORCE WERE WOMEN.

  • TEN YEARS LATER IT WAS 32%.

  • THE NEEDLE DIDN'T MOVE MUCH.

  • DO YOU THINK THAT REAL CHANGE

  • WILL INDEED COME THIS TIME?

  • >> I'M OPTIMISTIC.

  • >> ME, TOO.

  • >> AND LET ME TELL YOU WHY,

  • PLEASE.

  • ,

  • CONVERSATION IS HAPPENING MAKES

  • ME SO EXCITED.

  • AND IT'S MAKING ME REALIZE THAT

  • IF WE WANT THAT CHANGE TO

  • HAPPEN, IT'S GOING TO BE UP TO

  • EACH OF THE THREE OF US ON A

  • PANEL RIGHT NOW.

  • TO EXTEND THE CONVERSATION

  • BEYOND THIS INTERVIEW, TO TALK

  • TO THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE ABLE TO

  • TALK TO BECAUSE OF THE POSITIONS

  • WE ARE IN.

  • IN THAT SENSE, IF IT'S IN OUR

  • POWER, I THINK THESE WOMEN ARE

  • INCREDIBLE AND I'M OPTIMISTIC

  • FOR THE FUTURE.

  • C

  • >> I'M CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC, I

  • WOULD SAY.

  • THERE IS SOMETHING -- THERE IS

  • DIFFERENT PIECES, LIKE I WAS

  • TALKING ABOUT THE GIRLS AND

  • WOMEN IN COLLEGE, THE

  • EXPECTATIONS THAT THEY ARE GIVEN

  • REGARDING THE INDUSTRY MAY NOT

  • BE AS ACCURATE AS THEY SHOULD

  • BE, IN MY OPINION.

  • THERE IS A CERTAIN DEGREE OF

  • WHAT I CALL BACKGROUND RADIATION

  • THAT EXISTS IN PARTICULARLY

  • ENGINEERING.

  • S Y

  • >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

  • >> ADVANCEMENT ISSUES, THESE ARE

  • ALL -- YOU JUST DEAL WITH IT

  • WHEN YOU'RE COMING INTO THE

  • INDUSTRY AND USUALLY WHEN YOU'RE

  • IN COLLEGE YOU'RE NOT TOLD ABOUT

  • THESE THINGS.

  • IN COLLEGE YOU'RE NOT TOLD ABOUT

  • THIS.

  • IBUT YOU COME INTO THE INDUSTRYT

  • AND LEARN, WAIT, ALL OF THIS

  • GOES ON WHICH I NEVER LEARNED

  • ABOUT.

  • AND YOU JUST -- SOME OF IT --

  • EVERYBODY HAS TO DEAL WITH IT,

  • WHETHER YOU'RE FEMALE OR MALE,

  • AND I THINK JUST UNDERSTANDING

  • THAT AND BEING ABLE TO COPE WITH

  • IT AND TO REALLY FOCUS ON THE

  • GOOD THINGS AND HOW TECHNOLOGY

  • CAN REALLY HELP ADVANCE YOUR

  • CAREER, MAKE YOU FINANCIALLY

  • STABLE AND JUST, YOU KNOW, YOU

  • CAN BUILD REALLY COOL THINGS

  • THAT YOU CAN'T DO IN MOST OTHER

  • FIELDS.

  • R

  • SO I AM CERTAINLY CAUTIOUSLY

  • OPTIMISTIC ABOUT IT.

  • YEAH.

  • OPTIMISTIC ABOUT IT.

  • THAT CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC NOTE.

  • THANK YOU ALL.

  • PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU ALL.

  • >> THANK YOU.

  • >> THANKS.

  • >>> OUR UBER DRIVERS EMPLOYEES

  • OR INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS?

  • THAT QUESTION IS CURRENTLY

  • BEFORE A FEDERAL COURT.

  • A SMALL GROUP OF FORMER DRIVERS

  • HAVE SUED UBER SAYING THEY

  • SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLASSIFIED AS

  • EMPLOYEES.

  • NEXT WEEK, THE COURT WILL HEAR

  • ARGUMENTS ON WHETHER THE SUIT

  • CAN BE EXPANDED TO INCLUDE MANY

  • IF NOT ALL OF THE 160,000 U.S.

  • DRIVERS.

  • THE CASE COULD HAVE A BIG IMPACT

  • ON THE SO-CALLED SHARING

  • ECONOMY.

  • OUR COLLEAGUE SPOKE TO A

  • PROFESSOR OF MANAGEMENT SCIENCE

  • AT NEW YORK UNIVERSITY.

  • >> HOW DO THESE COMPANIES DEFINE

  • THEMSELVES MATTERS CERTAINLY IN

  • THE COURT OF LAW AND ALSO IN THE

  • COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION.

  • ARE THESE PLATFORMS?

  • ARE THEY DELIVERY COMPANIES?

  • ARE THEY COMPANIES WITH

  • EMPLOYEES?

  • EY CH

  • FREELANCERS?

  • SORT OF LIKE THE MARKET AND

  • HIERARCHY, SO TO SPEAK.

  • AND DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY HAS

  • DEFINED NEW INSTITUTION AND

  • ORGANIZATIONAL FORMS.

  • WE JUST NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT

  • THIS IS A NEW FORM OF ORGANIZING

  • ECONOMIC ACTIVITY THAT HAS SOME

  • OF THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A

  • HANDS-OFF MARKET AND OF A

  • CORPORATION.

  • >> SO IS UBER A CAR SERVICE OR

  • TECH COMPANY?

  • >> SO IS UBER A CAR SERVICE OR

  • RIGHT?

  • >> SO IS UBER A CAR SERVICE OR

  • BUT TO SAY THAT IT'S PURELY A

  • MATCHING PLATFORM SEEMS TO SORT

  • OF BE A LITTLE DISCONNECTED FROM

  • REALITY.

  • IT'S A $50 BILLION COST SERVICE

  • ALSO SEEMS DISCONNECTED FROM THE

  • REALITY AND THE FACT THAT IT IS

  • AT ITS CORE A PLATFORM THAT

  • MATCHES INDEPENDENT DRIVERS WITH

  • PEOPLE SORT OF DOING IT WITH A

  • LOT OF LAYERS THAT TRADITIONALLY

  • INAUDIBLE ].

  • THE UBER CASE IS "WALL STREET

  • JOURNAL" TECHNOLOGY REPORTER

  • DOUGLAS McMILLAN.

  • DOUG, WELCOME BACK.

  • >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

  • >> YOU BROKE SOME NEWS TODAY

  • REGARDING UBER.

  • IT IS NOW VALUED AT NEARLY $51

  • BILLION.

  • 1

  • >> IT'S A VERY BIG NUMBER.

  • IT'S ONLY ONE OF TWO

  • VENTURE-BACKED PRIVATE TECH

  • E OF O

  • VALUATION.

  • FACEBOOK.

  • UBER HAS DONE HERE IS IT GOT TO

  • THAT VALUATION FASTER THAN

  • FACEBOOK.

  • THN

  • SEVEN YEARS.

  • UBER IS NOW FIVE YEARS OLD AND

  • IT'S PRETTY ASTOUNDING FEAT FOR

  • THIS COMPANY THAT WASN'T AROUND

  • FIVE YEARS AGO.

  • >> IT IS EXTRAORDINARY.

  • SO IN THE CASE THAT WE JUST

  • TALKED ABOUT, SHOULD THE DRIVERS

  • BE CONTRACTORS OR EMPLOYEES, IS

  • THIS COMPANY, UBER, NOW VALUED

  • AT NEARLY $51 BILLION, ARGUING

  • THAT IT CAN'T AFFORD TO CLASSIFY

  • ITS CONTRACTORS, ITS DRIVERS AS

  • EMPLOYEES?

  • S

  • THAT THIS IS ONE OF MANY

  • COMPANIES IN THIS KIND OF

  • SHARING ECONOMY THAT IS

  • EMPLOYING THESE CONTRACTORS THAT

  • THESE QUESTIONS ARE AROUND.

  • BUT UBER IS THE MOST MATURE

  • COMPANY.

  • THEY HAVE OVER 200,000 DRIVERS

  • AND THEY HAVE THE MOST AT STAKE

  • IN THIS BATTLE.

  • IF UBER WERE FORCED TO

  • RECLASSIFY ALL OF THESE DRIVERS

  • WHO ARE NOW CONTRACTORS TO

  • BECOME EMPLOYEES, THAT WOULD ADD

  • HUGE COSTS FOR THIS COMPANY.

  • THE ESTIMATES RANGE ANYWHERE

  • FROM 20 TO 40% OF THEIR COSTS

  • WOULD INCREASE.

  • WOULD UBER HAVE TO THEN PASS

  • THAT COST ONTO CUSTOMERS, TAKE

  • THAT OUT OF THE POCKETS OF

  • DRIVERS?

  • SOMETHING FUNDAMENTAL WOULD HAVE

  • TO CHANGE WITH THE BUSINESS

  • MODEL AND THERE ARE NOW, AS I

  • SAID, SO VALUABLE AND SO FAR

  • ALONG THAT THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW,

  • BE A MAJOR OBSTACLE FOR GROWTH

  • FOR THIS COMPANY.

  • SO THEY ARE NOT EXPLICITLY

  • ARGUING THAT BUT THAT'S KIND OF

  • WHAT FACES THIS COMPANY.

  • >> YOU HAVE REPORTED ON

  • OTHER-DEMAND COMPANIES HAVE

  • RECLASSIFIED THEIR CONTRACTS

  • NDE

  • WE HAVE THE CAR-PARKING SERVICE

  • AND INSTA CAR SHIFT.

  • WHY DID THEY DECIDE TO MAKE THAT

  • MOVE?

  • WHY DID THEY DECIDE TO MAKE THAT

  • VERY EARLY IN THEIR BUSINESS

  • MODELS AND THERE IS STILL TIME

  • TO REJIGGER THINGS AND REFRAME

  • THEIR BUSINESS MODELS AROUND AN

  • EMPLOYEE MODEL AND, TWO, WHAT

  • THESE COMPANIES ARE GETTING OUT

  • OF THIS, I TALKED TO THE CEO OF

  • LUX AND THEY CAN NOW DO MORE

  • THINGS WITH EMPLOYEES THAT THEY

  • COULD NOT WOULD CONTRACTORS FOR

  • THE ON-DEMAND VALET PARKERS.

  • THEY CAN SET THEIR SCHEDULES,

  • GIVE THEM MORE HANDS-ON TRAINING

  • AND GIVE THEM MORE SPECIFIC

  • DIRECTION THAT THEY COULD NOT DO

  • WITH THEIR CONTRACTOR WORKFORCE.

  • >> AND THEY ARE SMALL AND NIMBLE

  • ENOUGH TO DO AT THIS STAGE.

  • >> YES.

  • IT'S WORTH DOING IT AT THIS

  • STAGE BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO

  • BE FORCED TO DO THIS CHANGE.

  • >> ARE YOU HEARING ANY

  • DISCUSSION AMONG EXECUTIVES AT

  • THESE TYPE OF ON-DEMAND SERVICE

  • COMPANIES PERHAPS ABOUT FINDING

  • A NEW WAY TO EXTEND EMPLOYEE

  • BENEFITS, BETWEEN CONTRACT AND

  • EMPLOYEE STATUS, PERHAPS?

  • >> YEAH.

  • WE'RE HEARING THAT FROM THE

  • INVESTORS AND COMPANY ITSELF AND

  • HEARING IT FROM REGULATORS AND

  • IN A NATIONAL CONVERSATION,

  • SENATOR OUT OF VIRGINIA HAS BEEN

  • A NATIONAL POLITICIAN TO DISCUSS

  • THIS IDEA OF, YOU KNOW,

  • TECHNOLOGY AND THE ONLINE

  • MARKETPLACES HAVE CREATED A NEW

  • TYPE OF WORKER.

  • AND TECHNOLOGY HAS MOVED FASTER

  • THAN REGULATION IN THIS AREA.

  • SHOULD WE COME UP WITH A NEW

  • CLASSIFICATION, A NEW TYPE OF

  • WORKER, SOME PEOPLE HAVE CALLED

  • IT THE DEPENDENT CONTRACTOR

  • WHERE, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY

  • YOU'RE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THESE

  • PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO STICK

  • WITH ONE COMPANY, THEY ARE NOT

  • GOING TO WORK A CERTAIN SHIFT

  • BUT THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE SOME

  • FUNDAMENTAL BENEFITS, LIKE, YOU

  • KNOW, WORKERS COMP, UNEMPLOYMENT

  • BENEFITS, THAT PERHAPS COULD BE

  • PAID OUT OF A POOL.

  • SO, YES, THERE IS DEFINITELY,

  • YOU KNOW, A NEW BEHAVIOR, A NEW

  • CLASS OF WORKER.

  • WHETHER OR NOT GOVERNMENTS AND

  • REGULATIONS SHOULD STEP FORWARD

  • AND RECOGNIZE THAT IS STILL A

  • MATTER OF DEBATE.

  • >> UBER IS ALSO FACING ANOTHER

  • LEGAL BATTLE IN CALIFORNIA, THE

  • STATE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION

  • WANTS TO FINE THE COMPANY MORE

  • THAN $7 MILLION AND SUSPEND THE

  • SERVICE IF THE COMPANY DOESN'T

  • TURN OVER DATA ON RIDERS.

  • WHAT'S SPECIFIC DATA REGARDING

  • RIDERSHIP DOES THE STATE WANT TO

  • SEE?

  • >> SO SEVERAL DIFFERENT THINGS.

  • THEY ARE LOOKING FOR POINT A TO

  • POINT B, WHICH CUSTOMERS ARE

  • TAKING TRIPS, WHEN AND WHERE.

  • THEY ARE ALSO LOOKING FOR KIND

  • OF DATA ABOUT ACCESSIBLE

  • VEHICLES AND TO WHAT EXTENT UBER

  • IS GETTING CAN REQUESTS AND

  • FIELDING REQUESTS FOR ACCESSIBLE

  • VEHICLES.

  • THAT THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IS

  • LOOKING FOR AND BASICALLY THEY

  • ARE SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE

  • MADE A DEAL WITH YOU, UBER, THAT

  • WE WOULD CREATE REGULATION TO

  • PROTECT YOU AND YOUR SPECIFIC

  • KINDS OF VEHICLE AS REGULATION.

  • YOU'RE NOT UPHOLDING YOUR END OF

  • THE BARGAIN BY GIVING US ENOUGH

  • DATA.

  • I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A

  • GROWING STORY WITH UBER AS IT

  • BEGINS TO BECOME A LEGALIZED

  • ENTITY AND ADDS UBER BECOMES

  • PROTECTED UNDER A LOT OF LAWS IN

  • MANY OF THE JURISDICTIONS WHERE

  • IT OPERATES.

  • IT'S GOING TO HAVE A CHALLENGE

  • OF COMPLIANCE AND HOW DO YOU

  • MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, THE

  • REGULATORS IN 50 DIFFERENT

  • STATES ARE ALL HAPPY WITH THE

  • DATA THAT YOU ARE GIVING THEM

  • SAND THE DEAL THAT YOU STRUCK

  • WITH THEM?

  • I THINK CALIFORNIA IS AT THE

  • FOREFRONT OF THIS AND WE'RE

  • GOING TO SEE THIS HEADACHE

  • EXPEND TO OTHER PLACES WITH

  • UBER.

  • >> IT'S SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY

  • ON LOBBYING IN CALIFORNIA.

  • TOP THREE OF COMPANIES IN THE

  • AMOUNT OF MONEY IT SPENT.

  • REAL QUICKLY, ARE THERE TOP

  • MYTHS IN THE RIDE-SHARING

  • ECONOMY OR IN THE ECONOMY IN

  • GENERAL?

  • >> I THINK ONE MYTH IS THAT IT'S

  • ALL KIND OF MOM AND POP AND IT'S

  • ALL THE GUY NEXT DOOR DRIVING

  • YOU OR RENTING YOU A PLACE.

  • THESE ONLINE MARKETPLACES MOVE

  • TOWARDS FORMALITY AND MOVE

  • TOWARDS THE INDUSTRY.

  • YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MORE AND

  • MORE BUSINESSES EMERGE AROUND

  • THESE MARKETPLACES.

  • >> AND THEY DO REALLY QUICKLY.

  • THANK YOU, DOUG.

  • .

  • >>> AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING

  • ALL OF US.

  • FOR ALL OF THE NEWS COVERAGE, GO

  • TO KQED.ORG.

  • I'M THUY VU.

  • TO KQED.ORG.

>>> GOOD EVENING.

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