Name: Estonian Foreign Minister: 'We must put more pressure on Russia'
Uploaded: 2026-02-16T17:05:15.000Z
Duration: 9 min 26 s
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Adverbs of degree

So we're here wrapping up a really eventful Munich security conference with the Foreign Minister of estonia, Marcus Sagner.

Mr. Sagner, thank you very much for joining DW.

Basic passive voice

Now, Estonia, of course, is considered one of the most vulnerable members of NATO.

You know, considering the scenarios that people worry about in the future.

Potential Russian attack, you know, testing NATO's responses.

Do you feel reassured by what has happened this weekend, particularly the speech made by the US Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, that many talk as a sign of reassurance?

Actually, the story that Estonia is one of the most vulnerable countries in Europe is a fake news.

We prepare for Russian probable invasion and deterrence is really strong.

And essentially what I think what people see is that Estonia might be one of the first targets.

Yeah, this is like a classical understanding about the invasion.

And if you see the map, that it's very logical.

But in real life, what we do is that we are increasing heavily our capabilities.

I think that NATO is stronger than ever before.

We have new defense plans already since Vilnius, and it means that we are not waiting.

If Russia is coming to our territories and then we are fighting back, we will bring the war to Russia.

Deep strike capabilities, it will be there.

But what we are concerned is actually the political will.

We are concerned about Europe, that if Europe is ready actually to.

To make a decision to stand up, to be stronger.

And it was exactly the topic what we were talking here in Munich all these days.

And as well, Secretary Rubio speech, I think that it was exactly the same, actually, that Vice President Wentz had a year ago.

We have witnessed during this year many crazy momentums.

You know, Alaska meeting with Putin, Greenland pressure on Ukraine.

And now just Secretary Rubio is more decent in the meaning of his language, but the message was the same, that US Needs stronger Europe.

And I think that this Munich conference showed as well that Europe is waking up.

I mean, I found one comment really interesting by Elbridge Colby.

So the American Under Secretary of War, sort of seen as the thinker in the Pentagon, who said in an event with a European think tank, he said that a certain amount of anxiety in Europe is salutary.

So suggesting that there'd been almost too much reassurance from the United States in the past.

Do you think it's good for Europe to be nervous?

And do you see this as part of America's communication strategy, like intentionally to rattle European nerves?

You know, from Estonian perspective, we have Been talking already maybe 20 years that Europe must do more.

Europe must have more self confidence and Europe must use the leverages.

What we have, not only about defense, what we normally think, that the US who is coming and take care of us.

So our relation with us as Europe, it is very strong, it will remain strong, but it is not any more unconditional.

There are conditions and that's why from our perspective, we cannot be nervous.

I'm always telling our people as well, let's cool down, but let's use this pressure to wake up as well Europe because we have lots of privileges.

And now I think that the new goal as a vision, we have a lack of vision and self confidence in Europe.

The new vision must be let's unite Europe, let's.

I'm not talking about European Union, I'm talking about Ukraine, I'm talking about enlargement.

I'm talking about more responsibilities on defence.

And as well economically and somehow to be very cynical, the Greenland case, what President Trump said actually united us more than ever.

And as well, European Union was able to say loudly that we are ready to act and we can respond to us.

So it's not like the war or bad relations between Europe and us.

But we need to understand that it's not only about President Trump.

We will never see such a US anymore as it was in the past.

But we cannot just be in defensive position as Europe we must move forward.

We have to have vision and self confidence.

Well, let's look at a couple of examples where this European Union is European unity and collaboration is really questioned.

One is that Emmanuel Macron, the French President sent one of his top diplomats recently for a meeting with the Russians.

This was criticized pretty widely within Europe.

Do you think that was helpful or was that a bad mood?

We have been always in the position that talk to Putin without any like real plan is a mistake.

We have been executing this kind of policy in Europe like decades.

Outcome was more war, more aggressive Russia.

So at the moment there's a totally wrong way to go to start finding some kind of special envoy for European Union, sending this envoy to Kremlin because this NY will come back with humiliated position and even weaker and also weakening as well Ukraine position.

But of course if President Macron wants to talk to Putin, this is, you know, he can do whatever.

But the good thing is that this week, on Thursday, informal meeting of European leaders, there was no support for this Idea to start talking with Kremlin.

We must put more pressure on Russia not to talk with him.

So defense cooperation is seen as so important, but one of the flagship projects has been going on for years.

So this idea of future fighter, jet fighter program between France and Germany has been through incredible struggles and now there are doubts that it's ever really going to happen.

What kind of a message does that send to you?

So Estonia, obviously a small country that is dependent on NATO for its air defenses.

What's your message to those big countries?

Do they need to pull themselves together and work out how to cooperate on these projects?

This is one example that this European collaboration sometimes is too difficult and there is different reasons why it is like this.

But we need to understand in Europe that it's not about a different national interest about defense industry.

There is no competition between each other.

We actually need more support, more new innovation and Ukraine is our opportunity.

I want to change this narrative in Europe that now we are telling that we support Europe because we need to help them.

No, in the future we need Ukraine in Europe, we need Ukraine capabilities, we need Ukraine innovation, we need Ukraine army, actually to have a peace guarantees for Europe.

So we need to change this understanding as well that inside Europe we are competing, we are somehow struggling.

No, our global, global goal is actually to be more competitive.

And this is one example that we are spending lots of money, lots of time and outcome is mainly zero.

We need to focus on what can we do in real life.

And also first time ever, we have a lot of money coming into defence now.

We must be smart not to invest to the past, but actually invest to the future.

Be innovative and as well bring Ukraine in, because Ukraine change will change our attitude as well.

One of the big kind of European discussions at the moment that's happening mostly behind closed doors is about whether Europe needs a more integrated nuclear deterrent, whether France and the UK need to extend deterrence to other European member states.

Is that something that you feel that Estonia would benefit from or are you concerned by the implications of these very sensitive conversations?

We are in Estonia, very practical people.

And for us the defense issue is not theoretical.

So we have been investing 21 years to NATO and NATO is actually the frame which is working, it's not theoretical thing.

These are the plans, commitments, protocols.

So we cannot start creating something different.

So I think that NATO umbrella about nuclear deterrence is something we need to invest heavily more.

But I'm not against to have these discussions that whether we could have the additional opportunity because France is the only country in Europe who has actually independent nuclear capabilities.