Name: CEO of the MSC Franke: 'We don't want to manage our own security without the US'
Uploaded: 2025-11-24T17:08:57.000Z
Duration: 6 min 47 s
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And joining us now from Johannesburg is Benedikt Franca.

He's the CEO of the Munich Security Conference and an expert in International Affairs.

The war in Ukraine cast a long shadow over the G20 summit there.

Do you think that the talks to end the war are now going in Ukraine's favor?

So let's distinguish between the G20 summit here in Joburg and what was going on in Geneva and before that, and

I. I wish this would have gone differently.

I wish it wouldn't always take these surprising US Proposals to freak us Europeans into action and into cohesion.

But let's face it, we see new momentum in an important negotiation.

We see, at the moment, European cohesion.

You see, of the Munich Security Conference.

I'd like to talk about the operative word security there.

Has Donald Trump's presidency made Europe more secure?

It has made Europe a lot more conscious about the need to get better and more serious on its own security.

And do you think Europe is being able to stand up to that challenge?

It is so easy to talk down what we've done in the past.

It is so easy to focus on the free riding of the last couple of decades.

But let's face it, we've seen enormous structural change in the last couple of months.

vance gave his famous speech at the Munich Security Conference in February this year, we have seen real change in Germany and in many other European countries.

Let's focus on what we have achieved so far.

And, you know, speaking to the American side pretty frequently, they acknowledge and, in fact, are surprised by the amount of changes that we've seen.

Will Europe be in a position to manage its own security without US help soon?

Okay, first of all, we don't want to manage our own security without the U.S.

we want to keep the U.S. firmly entrenched in European security.

But if it doesn't happen that we have to shoulder a lot more.

No, let's be serious and honest about this.

In the foreseeable future, we are helpless and we are almost defenseless.

But then again, Even without the U.S. nATO is the strongest military alliance in the world.

the European militaries, and that's not just the EU, but, you know, Count in Great Britain.

How important is the outcome of the Ukraine war to Europe's security?

If we run around the world always upholding principles like territorial sovereignty and support of like minded countries and then we do not deliver, then we let them die out in the cold, then nothing of what we're doing structurally on the ground with our armies, on conscription, on spending will have any meaning whatsoever.

It will undermine our credibility as an actor globally and hence we must not let Ukraine, Ukraine lose this war.

then if the Americans, if it came to the point that the Americans lose interest in supporting Ukraine, as has been indicated a number of times in the past year, can Europe actually do its part and support Ukraine in winning this war?

We, I think also have the political will within the population.

I think we just have to put our money and our political weight where our words have been over the last three years.

Let's talk a bit about the G20 because you were just there at the, at the G20.

We were talking about Ukraine because it did cast a long shadow over the G20 summit, as we were saying.

But then you also had this situation where the United States wasn't participating at the G20 and you had South Africa's foreign minister saying at Forum before the G20 summit, and

I quote, the G20 should send a clear message that the world can move on with or without the US Unquote.

Multilateralism is not the same as US foreign policy leadership.

It is deeply regrettable that the US Wasn't present at the summit.

But on one hand, I think the South African presidency delivered a clear diplomatic success, that there was a final communique that climate change and other important things featured in this communique.

On the other hand, I think it's a pretty sad situation in which our world has gotten itself into that.

We are so thrilled that we got to communicate that mentions climate change.

That would have been standard 10 years ago.

So that is a clear sign of how polarized international diplomacy currently is.

So tell us where international diplomacy is headed.

You know, the first, the post World War II order really was underpinned by the Western alliance and particularly by the United States being involved in the way that it was.

Given what we've just seen at the G20 and the lack of the US involvement over there.

Multilateralism is that moving ahead without the US it is moving ahead without the US in certain instances.

But let's face it, multilateralism will always be better if the world's richest and most powerful country is involved and actually drives it.

But we have seen efforts led by the Global south on very specific topics.

We've seen an increasing amount of south south cooperation.

And we have seen ad hoc coalitions of the willing.

Would say multilateralism isn't dead, but it's also not healthy.

Benedikt Franke, CEO of the Munich Security Conference.