Get you to be yourself, get your machine, let's see what the machine is doing, and let's change the coping strategies.

But the key to this would be...

So, if I'm 30 odd, you know, and I've got low self-esteem⏤I'm, you know, I'm 33, got low self-esteem, and I came to you, where would you begin with trying to help?

And that low self-esteem was manifesting in abusive relationships, bad work relationships, very negative, sort of, feelings about myself,

and maybe even some impulsive behaviors, you know, I'm... I'm eating too much or I'm, I don't know, whatever.

Where would you start with me?

OK, the first, I mean, just so people that say, "Oh, wow, that's a strange starting point."

- I'm a doctor, so, the first is make sure you're actually OK, because⏤ - I'm OK.

... if someone were presenting with this, it could be an depression if⏤and that can present in many ways.

Typically, it's low mood and loss of pleasure in everything and loss of energy.

But that doesn't have to be, so I mustn't miss that.

So, I would make sure your mind is not ill; you don't need treatment.

Now, we assume that this is long-standing, and what you've done is you⏤what you described is a lot of maladaptive coping strategies.

So, I eat too much.

Which you're probably comfort eating or it's just habitual stuff that you're just not, you know⏤or it could be you got so little self-esteem, I've seen this, you're almost punishing yourself.

You know, I don't deserve to... to eat well and I don't deserve to eat the right things.

So, I deserve to be overweight or I deserve to look like this.

So that could be the bottom of it, so I have to start⏤

My starting point is exploration.

But the key to this would be to move all that to one side.

If you're in a reasonable place where you can actually communicate.

If not, I'll let you express it all.

It's important you get it off your chest.

If you've got it, you say, "I don't need to do that", what I do is what I've said in the book here.

In "A Path Through the Jungle", I explained: The starting point is get a blank piece of paper and write down who you wanna be.

What behaviors do you want to have?

Let's define what you want, not what you don't want, not what you're experiencing; don't start with the treacle⏤I call that the treacle.

Start with a blank piece of paper and then write down the person you wanna be.

I wanna be... I wanna be really confident.

I want to have a... a girlfriend or a boyfriend, I want to get married, I want to have kids.

I want to work out every day, I want to eat really good food.

Right.

So, what you're describing now is the human system.

The great news is, when I ask you about the characteristics you've got.

So, "I want to be calm", "I want to be happy", "I want to be confident", "I...".

That is you.

- That is you. Right. - How do you... how do you know it's me?

Because if we were⏤we can't⏤surgically removing interference neuroscientifically, which we can see on functional MRI scanners,

if we remove the chimp and computer system, then you're completely in control of yourself.

So, you would choose to be calm, you would choose to be confident.

So, therefore, that's you⏤the human system can choose.

What happens is when you choose to be calm, the chimp system interferes or the computer interferes, and throws shows to the world someone who's not calm.

So, it's very important to recognize who you are before we start.

So, now, we've got a guy, you're not gonna write⏤

- No one ever writes "anxious". No one. - No.

They say, "No, what I want to be is calm, collected, a good friend, have integrity."

That is you, if... if we didn't have interference in the machine.

So, it's very crucial⏤this is the biggest point in the book.

The biggest point is to define yourself because now you've got⏤self-esteem can rise just on that alone.

Once you've grasped that, you say, "Wow, what I'm presenting to the world is interference."

"It's not me. If I didn't have this machine, I would not have anxiety."

Because that's the system that you're saying⏤the human system⏤can't do anxiety.

It's not built to do that.

It's built to be rational and calm.

But what it wants to do and how it wants to present is a choice.

The chimp has no choice, the computer has no choice⏤the computer's programmed.

But these are interfering and presenting to the world someone who is not you.

So, it's very important to grasp that concept; that's my starting point.

Now, we've grasped that, we build on that.

So, now we... I know who you are.

I... I'll say this: Sometimes when you're with a friend and you've been chatting a while, and maybe it's got late in the evening, and you've got a lot off your chest and you've discussed⏤you've calmed down.

And, sometimes, the real you presents, and suddenly, you feel at peace.

People often say, "I don't know, it's just then I felt totally relaxed and thought I've got perspective."

"I've gathered the world the way it is, I accept things are, and I've calmed down."

And then, suddenly, you see the real person, and they've got morals and values⏤and not every human has.

Sometimes the chimp's the good guy, some⏤you know, sometimes the human's not nice.

So, I do get people who do not write, for example, who you are.

They don't write compassion, they don't write integrity; they don't care.

And if I challenge and say, "You didn't put compassion", they say, "I don't⏤not bothered about that."

So, I have to work out who you are, OK?

So, not everyone is gonna write the same things.

That's why I know it's you; we're not just your generic list.

Because someone could just be virtue-signaling; because you're asking me to do it or because I want to be these people, but really, I'm a... I'm a bad guy, you know, I'm... I wanna hurt people.

- I'll tease it out; that's my job. - How d'y⏤how?

'Cause, again, then you look at evidence base and you look at remorse, you look at whether somebody compensates for mistakes, you look⏤

There's a lot of things⏤I want to see the history here, and then I'll challenge that and challenge it, so, that's a series of talks.

So, often, we have a long time when we detain someone to... to explore this so we don't get fooled.

Is this⏤you... you talk referencing much of your psychiatric work here within psych hospitals.

Yeah.

So, somebody is psychopathic, we... we⏤generally, everyone has a different version of what it is.

For me, I neuroscientifically know there's certain tracks in the brain that are not really fully developed or don't function.

And this produces someone without empathy, without remorse, without any conscience⏤these are classic.

And so, I... I don't know that; I'm not a mind reader, I can't tell until people talk, you know, so, yes, they could deceive me.

You know, I... I have to just go on what they tell me, but I can listen carefully to the words they use and listen to what they're saying and look at their past life events, and it starts to unravel.

So, eventually, you think, "OK, I know what I'm dealing with now."

So⏤but to be honest, people don't do that with me.

What you tend to is⏤'cause I... I would, hopefully, set a scene where I don't care what you write.

I don't care what you want to do with your life.

It's not for me; I'm not a judge.

I'm here as a doctor to explore this with you and get insights for yourself.

So, the most people, they're not a psychopathic.

We're decent people who've just got lost in the... the way the new science of our mind has tumbled us.

So, what I st⏤my starting point when you gave me all this was to say, let's write out the real you and let's start building ourselves on that and recognizing what is not us and let's start unpicking it.

So, let's just start saying, right, why would you have⏤and we went early about⏤low self-esteem?

Let's look at why you have that; first, it's natural and healthy.

That can help people; sometimes just saying that, to go, "That's amazing!"

I feel better for knowing it's natural and healthy, maybe rubbish and unhelpful.

But at least I know it's healthy and there's not something wrong with me.

Because the second you start saying, "Oh, I'm trying to please people and I can't say no," and... and you see that as being a weakness or a fault, we're in trouble again.

'Cause you're muddling yourself up with the machine.

So, that's my starting point: Who are you? What's the machine doing?

All of this⏤anything the chimp does, anything it does, is natural.

There's nothing you're gonna give me, even if it murders someone⏤that's what chimps do; they're violent.

So, it... it's still illegal and not acceptable.

But I'm saying, everything's natural, so, that puts us on a different way of looking at it.

Again, to try and give context to that, natural isn't always good.

So, overeating is natural but it's not good.

And even, like, the classic one I always use with parents and teenagers, I always say if you've got⏤said it this morning with someone⏤

if you've got a teenager who's got a tidy bedroom, that's who, I want to meet.

If they have a messy bedroom, great, that's normal, you know?

So, you're more concerned with teenagers that aren't being teenagers.

So, if this⏤you've got a teenager who never lies, then it's a bit worrying; maybe they're good at deceit.

'Cause teenagers are learning to lie and they're learning to defend themselves, and is a natural at doing it.

It's not helpful and, hopefully, they grow out of it.

But you've got to say what's natural and let's work with that to minimize risk or whatever we want to do.

So, it's a long-winded way of saying, you know, get you to be yourself, get your machine, let's see what the machine is doing, and let's change the coping strategies.

But accept the machine is the machine.

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