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  • hello everyone i'm josie warden the rsa's head of  regenerative design and it's my great pleasure to  

  • welcome you to today's thursday lunchtime event  and so today we've gathered together a brilliant  

  • panel of fashion makers and thinkers from across  the uk and i'm from across the pond and really  

  • special thank you to lillian for joining us so  bright and early from new york this morning um  

  • so our clothing system has enormous impacts and  in the wake of prop 26 this conversation feels  

  • even more urgent and i can't wait to hear from our  expert panel today on how we can push fashion to  

  • be even more ambitious ambitious and achieve more  holistic goals so when we think about transforming  

  • fashion we often think about the sustainability  strategies of big brands and global supply chains  

  • but for today's conversation we're going to start  in a slightly different place and look at some  

  • very practical and locally based work which is  taking a regenerative approach to growing change  

  • in our landscape and in our communities before we  kind of zoom out and look at the wider change this  

  • might signal for the industry and so we're going  to hear a short kind of scene setting statements  

  • from each of our panelists um and in turn and  then we'll have a conversation together and so  

  • if you're interested in finding out more about the  rsa's work on regenerative design and fashion in  

  • particular then please check out the links in the  youtube chat and you can also get involved in the  

  • conversation on twitter using the hashtag join the  regeneration and we're really looking forward to  

  • hearing um any contributions you have to make  and we've got to get a lot to get through today  

  • so let's get started and and first up it's my real  pleasure to introduce justine olderz williams so  

  • justine is a creative activist our textile artisan  and educator specializing in botanical dyeing  

  • and she's director of the wild diary where she  devises rewilding rituals that reconnect people  

  • with natural fibres and colours they extend the  life of their clothing and she's also the founder  

  • of northwest fiber shed which is a collective  of professionals developing a decentralized  

  • regenerative textile system so justine thanks  so much for joining us today it's really great  

  • to have you and and i'm going to hand over to you  to introduce yourself a bit more about your work  

  • okay yeah well you mentioned i'm a natural  textile dyer and founder of fibre shed we are  

  • developing a regenerative textile  system in northwest england but  

  • i want to kind of go a little bit more  deeply into that term regenerative and  

  • what my understanding of that is um and  to kind of contextualize so to me it means  

  • restoring our life support system so that it can  restore us and right now this means giving back  

  • more than we take from the planet but  ultimately it means living in right relationship  

  • or symbiosis with our environment to make it more  understandable to myself one of my mentors claire  

  • dubois is the founder of the reforestation  charity tree sisters she says that humanity  

  • needs to evolve from being a consumer species torestorer species and how people interpret the term  

  • regenerative depends on where they currently  stand on this consumer restore a continuum  

  • for example the default extractor consumer mindset  will tend to reduce commodify and capitalize  

  • on the concept of regenerative fashion a term  which to my mind is a bit of an oxymoron anyway  

  • in order to keep business as usual and  perpetuate an economic system which has caused  

  • supply and prices by being degenerative at the  other end of this continuum we have the restorers  

  • who preserved their wildlife and soil  health i'm really struck by the statistic  

  • from national geographic that states that it's  indigenous cultures who make up just five percent  

  • of the global population who are preserving  80 percent of the world's biodiversity  

  • now organizations like fibre sheds that  i'm involved in honor this indigenous these  

  • indigenous origins of regenerative practice  and are implementing solutions that actively  

  • restore rather than merely sustaining or  worse destroying our planet and that ethos  

  • focuses on using local fibres local dyes and local  labor because massive amounts of environmental and  

  • social exploitation can be reduced or eliminated  by regionalizing or downsizing manufacturing  

  • so for example in relation to clothing  manufacturers working regeneratively might involve  

  • divesting from fossil fuel derived synthetic  materials that currently make up about 70 of  

  • all clothing produced to instead use renewable  natural fibers and dyes grown in ways that draw  

  • carbon out of our overheated atmosphere back into  our depleted soils and to do this we need textile  

  • props integrated into our food farming systems  um crucially using carbon farming techniques  

  • then when we have these textile crops we need  the processing equipment to bring it to market  

  • and make it viable now in my work with northwest  england fibre shed i'm collaborating with patrick  

  • grant from social enterprise community clothing  who you might know better as a judge on the bbc's  

  • great british selling bee and also super slow way  who are an arts commissioning organization that  

  • run the british textile biennial and we've been  working this year on a project called homegrown  

  • homespun to start developing a regenerative soil  to soil textile system here in the heartland of  

  • british textiles in northwest england um we've  started but from the ground up by planting two  

  • of the uk's forgotten vibrant dye crops flax  and woad on urban land in blackburn and the main  

  • challenge has been um to bring these textile crops  back to uk is a loss of skills and there are no  

  • linen processing facilities in the entire country  anymore you can't process it and you can't spin it  

  • in this country so in our prototype year  we did everything by hand the way our  

  • pre-industrial ancestors did it um and really  this this kind of begs the question to me of  

  • why have generations for thousands of  years been empowered with the skills of  

  • self-sufficiency and survivalism to make their  own clothing one are so clever civilization  

  • in this culture can't do that it's incredibly  difficult to work sustainably and ethically  

  • in on the british isles right now because we just  don't have those facilities to to do so or the  

  • um the crops um which are no longer grown here  so we added to our challenge by trying to grow  

  • regeneratively and we've had advice from soil  scientists who are monitoring the effects  

  • on the soil health and biodiversity and we managed  to get from seed to cloth in less than six months  

  • and the cloth is now being exhibited in  blackburn museum until december the 18th  

  • and we happily have got funding to upscale  and reach our kind of second phase which  

  • is to bring the line of jeans to market through  patrick's um social enterprise community clothing  

  • in time for the next biennial in 2023 so  we're we're inspired by um sort of mid-scale  

  • production models like the harris tweed model we  envisage a linen industry in in the northwest and  

  • yeah that's where we're up to i mean i cancan delve way more deeply into the huge amount  

  • of challenges um i think what's interesting  to me is this holds a massive potential the  

  • clothing industry has a massive potential to heal  the climate crisis if we listen very carefully to  

  • those who are most impacted by the climate  crisis and it's not just about the loss of  

  • manufacturing infrastructure there are actual  deeper ramifications to working regeneratively  

  • there is an emotional element to our mass  consumption that we need to tackle we can set up  

  • all these lovely systems but if people are still  driven to buy and waste because it's fulfilling  

  • some kind of emotional need that is set up by  our economic system that is going to perpetuate  

  • um in the long term the same sort of wastage  albeit um with better renewable materials so  

  • yeah it's it's a really intersectional interesting  discussion and i feel like i'm overrunning on  

  • time so i'm gonna round up and perhaps delve more  deeply during the questions thank you thank you so  

  • much and it was so there was so much in there that  we can pull out in the conversation and so we're  

  • looking forward to doing that and linking it up  with um others work too so next up um i'm going  

  • to introduce dr francesco mozarella francesco is  a senior lecturer in fashion and design for social  

  • change at the london college of fashion where  he works for the center for sustainable fashion  

  • exploring the ways in which design activism can  be used to create counter narratives towards  

  • sustainability in fashion and previously francesco  was ahrc design leadership fellow research  

  • associate at lancaster university with the aim to  support design research for change so it's really  

  • great to have you here today francesco and i'll  hand over you to talk a bit more about your work  

  • and perspectives on this topic yes uh thanks  rosie and hi everyone um as rosie said i and  

  • my work is in fashion and design for social change  and i use a design activism approach to design for  

  • sustainability at center for sustainable fashion  since the inception of the center we our ambition  

  • was to build a transformed fashion system towards  psychological social cultural and environmental  

  • um and economic sustainability but my approach  to uh design for sustainability it's to start  

  • from culture as an entry point to develop  a more personal authentic and perhaps even  

  • spiritual approach to design for sustainability  sustainability is a journey and mind starts from  

  • revitalizing cultural heritage but also tackling  social equalities and fostering social engagement  

  • but also to make local economies flourish and  enhance environmental stewardship i often work  

  • with marginalized and isolated communities and in  order to enable people to move from the feeling of  

  • hopelessness and feeling overwhelmed  in response to the climate emergency  

  • to instead gain voice and agency and become  agents of their own alternatives i also believe  

  • that there is a need to decolonize a fashion  and disenter sustainability which is very much  

  • grounded currently on anglo-saxon approaches to  sustainability but instead we need to also draw  

  • on indigenous knowledge and embed other sets  of values in the shaping of the regenerative  

  • fashion system to exemplify this i will try and  talk about a few projects i'm currently working  

  • on our centers for sustainable fashion i'm working  on the fashion values program in partnership with  

  • caring work business and ibm we are launchingseries of online free courses aimed at nurturing  

  • a regenerative mindset and also change making  capabilities within an international community of  

  • learners this year we launched a challenge asking  people how fashion can value nature and we have  

  • received a multi-simplicity of responses in terms  of fashion products services and systems that can  

  • contribute to the shifting to shifting from  an age of extraction to an age of regeneration  

  • and more central to my own work is the making for  change world and forest project on which i've been  

  • working on for the past years this project uses  fashion activism and reciprocal ways of making  

  • to create positive social change in an east london  borough and build long lasting legacies within the  

  • local community my approach in this is what i call  middle up down in fact to enable sustainability  

  • in communities sometimes governments or  ngos are adopting top-down strategies  

  • and delivering services but they often lack the  sensibility to address the specific needs and  

  • aspirations of communities and instead on  the other hand also bottom-up initiatives  

  • activating by communities often lack the resources  our infrastructure to become sustainable over time  

  • so my middle up down approach to this is to play  the role of a bridge between bottom up initiatives  

  • co-created with communities and services and  strategies delivered by top-down organizations  

  • such as local government in my project and in  this context i tend to activate change from within  

  • the system adopting a quiet or indirect form of  activism as a situated and embedded approach to  

  • co-design meaningful social change and from this  perspective i in response to what we need actually  

  • for social change to happen i need that i believe  that we need funding to support such initiatives  

  • but also moving beyond the well-recognized  role of the designer as a facilitator  

  • to also play the role of an activist that means  challenging the status quo and make things happen  

  • but we also need to work collaboratively across  different departments and not working in silos  

  • because we need holistic and systemic approaches  to tackle sustainability challenges and also  

  • create an infrastructure to sustain change and  support resilient communities thank you so much  

  • it's really exciting to hear about your  work and already seeing so many links um  

  • and with things that we're thinking about at the  rsa and things that justine has shared already  

  • and i'm sure that's going to continue and we  join um we're joined by alice robinson so um  

  • alice is a regenerative fashion designer whose  work has been shown at the london design festival  

  • the victorian albert museum and her collection  11458 was acquired by the v a in 2020 and she's  

  • a co-founder of gradient robinson where they're  developing an innovative and traceable new supply  

  • of vegetable-tanned leather made from the heights  of animals farmed on regenerative farms in the uk  

  • um and we were delighted to work with um alice  and also sarah her partner who took part in  

  • the rethink fashion program earlier this year  which was our learning journey that was held in  

  • partnership with the macarthur foundation so it's  really nice to see you again alice and over to you  

  • to share some more about your work thank you so  much for having me josie and thank you for the  

  • introduction so as jesus said um i'm co-founder  of a new venture called radio robinson to produce  

  • a new supply of leather um from the heights of  animals rage on a regenerative farms in the uk  

  • and really our goal is to forge a connection  between land stewardship and material culture  

  • um i have a design background an accessory  background and i felt uh the disconnection myself  

  • when i wanted to be able to sort of understand  the materials on this and the sources of them  

  • um when it came to creating my own work  um currently the leather industry is  

  • disconnected from farming in a way that there is  no opportunity for farmers to know or choose the  

  • destiny of the heights that the animals they've  raised go and there's no option for designers  

  • to know really anything about the life of the  animal that resulted in the leather they use  

  • um therefore my work explored ways in  which the leather industry intersects with  

  • farms and trading trying to investigate ways of  working more closely can strengthen these systems  

  • and even build new ones um we want to be able to  align design and therefore consumption with what a  

  • landscape is suited to produce and therefore  what raw materials it yields and therefore  

  • what the materials are that it offers and to  the extent in which um we have them at our hands  

  • um i really like the saying of kate fletcher says  that fiber follows food and i've really found that  

  • working as closely as possible with a farming and  agricultural community um as a designer and trying  

  • to sort of follow behind them to know what um sort  of where those connections can be made i believe  

  • that designers we can learn a great deal from  farmers about balance and working with nature and  

  • about limitations and using them using limitations  this is a source of inspiration creativity which i  

  • think sometimes in the industry we lack because  there's uh so much capacity to create whatever  

  • you want to whatever extent in so many ways and  and having um having new creative restrictions  

  • on that to work in balance in balance and inregenerative way is is um a source of uniqueness  

  • and inspiration um equally i feel like there's  a cross-industry collaboration is really key for  

  • building new systems that can support a shared  goal in working restoratively so our project is  

  • motivated by building recognition that farms  raising animals with regenerative practices  

  • invest a great deal of resource and care  to produce healthy foods steward land and  

  • it is our belief that those animals should be  fully and meaningfully utilized and we have a  

  • desire for those farms to receive maximum value  and recognition for their exemplary practices  

  • our goal is to create a bioregional supply  chain that results in leather in a leather  

  • material that is expressive of place and there is  an abundant opportunity to collaborate with the  

  • farming community here in the uk that is uniquely  um suited to growing grass and having animals on  

  • the land in a way that builds biodiversity  and works um with a regenerative approach to  

  • to food and community culture barriers to progress  really lie in our lack of infrastructure as  

  • um so i'm sure we'll touch on later but that's  something that's really disappeared for us  

  • in terms of the leather production of  the uk and that really hinders our um  

  • systems in creating and supporting localized uh  material production um it's important for us as  

  • a business to understand the interdependency of  shared stakeholders both between the farming and  

  • fashion industry when it comes to material  production and how that can be approached  

  • for example uh many of the farms we work with rely  on have a small scale approach to producing food  

  • and sewage land and they sell directly to their  customers who are really interested in and desire  

  • traceable and local food um and a sector that is  a linchpin of that is um small scale absorbs which  

  • we have had a um had a really really wrapping  decline in closures of in recent years and  

  • um the sales or disposal of heightened skins are  a point of where i believe um sort of an engaged  

  • design community you can see how we can um sort of  reach forward and create um new systems to support  

  • um the flourishing of local and regional um food  and land practices so we want the material we  

  • produce to inspire and aware of land stewardship  and natural systems so we will be offering our  

  • leather to brands and designers seeking ethical  and ecological materials and telling the story  

  • of regenerative practices in the uk and it's our  aim to inspire a commitment um to practices that  

  • prioritize animal welfare and biodiversity and  healthy ecosystems great thanks so much alice um  

  • and finally i'm really thrilled to introduce  butera's senior sustainability strategist  

  • lillian lou um and we're gonna zoom out a little  bit now we've been looking at some quite kind of  

  • place specific i guess interventions in fashion  um but lily into work is helping high-profile  

  • fashion tech and consumer um goods and beauty  companies to set quite bold sustainability  

  • visions um and lenny also has worked at the un  to mobilize companies to take action on the sdgs  

  • and help launch a sustainable fashion movement in  china um and has been named one of the green biz  

  • 30 under 30 leaders so it's brilliant to have you  here today lillian and thanks again for getting  

  • up so early and it'd be really great to hear your  perspective on what you know how are these kind of  

  • changes in the idea of regeneration um impacting  the fashion industry as a whole and what kind of  

  • changes are you seeing coming coming down the  line yes thank you josie it's great to be here  

  • you know i work with a lot of different  companies and fashion is obviously a very  

  • important sector uh for us as futera and have  a big passion for it um and what i think is  

  • really exciting right now is that um there's  a lot more understanding around how social  

  • and environmental issues are interlinked so we've  talked a lot about that interdependence today and  

  • um i think there was a real awakening last year  in the wake of the black lives matter protest  

  • specifically in terms of just what environmental  justice is and how climate change and water  

  • pollution impacts communities and so i think  that's a really really important understanding  

  • that is happening and you know shortly after we  saw from the human rights crisis in xinjiang in  

  • the cotton farming industry again um i think  for many that was an awakening in terms of  

  • how our material choices impact social lives  and and social sustainability and so i think  

  • that is something that is changing in terms  of what we mean by sustainability and i  

  • think that the concept of regenerative  is really great because it doesn't silo  

  • different issues right you're really thinking  holistically about the approach and the impact

  • and i think what i'm seeing too is that now we  have these influential companies that are really  

  • uh setting up these more ambitious strategies and  initiatives and i know francesco mentioned caring  

  • is one of them they've obviously done a lot around  biodiversity and having enough positive impact on  

  • nature um you know mostly the approach taking it  is um coming in with investment which i think is  

  • you know which i think smaller players  are looking for these big companies to do  

  • you've got ralph lauren all birds  other companies too that are  

  • going in setting up funds and partnerships  to really build capabilities on the ground  

  • so that's also really exciting and something  we didn't really see a couple years ago and  

  • it's been moving quite fast um at the more global  high level um as part of my work with futera we  

  • work with the un climate change fashion charter  so we're one of the co-chairs there and um  

  • the new the renewed charter actually just came  out and in that you know you also see a mention  

  • to regenerative practices in terms of sourcing  and so again to me that's like an indication  

  • of the industry taking this seriously and it's  really exciting to see uh because it's the first  

  • and so i think it's really great news  um of course we're not there yet um  

  • i think the main the majority of the action that  we see is still more focused on doing less bad  

  • is not so much doing good or doing more good  and so you know i want to be real with that um  

  • and i think there's still a lot of work that  needs to be done in terms of shifting from  

  • the resource minimization to resource  regeneration and generational growth  

  • um you know many of my fellow panelists  have real experience working on the ground  

  • and so much has already been said around more  tangible things around regenerative concepts  

  • and the final thing that i want to add is that you  know working with a lot of these companies it's  

  • clear that the concept of regeneration is quite  complex and it's hard to grasp and you know i  

  • think it's really important to start helping  companies understand how you can integrate this  

  • concretely you know what are the metrics what are  the kpis what are the processes in a tangible way  

  • um that defines regenerative design that defines  regenerative company and regenerative community  

  • like at those levels and thinking about it at  scale and i know you know there's a lot of great  

  • work going on uh and you guys are doing the heavy  lifting um i think it's important to bring that  

  • together and um and create that guidance because  right now a lot of companies are figuring it out  

  • on their own uh and so it's a lot harder to have  consistent results as well i think we are starting  

  • to shape that vision but we need to get very  tangible about what that means as a business  

  • um yeah i think it's an exciting movement thatreally am i am so excited to learn about all these  

  • initiatives and i'm sure this is going to continue  to grow so thank you thanks very much lillian  

  • um i think it's been really interesting when we  were thinking about putting this panel together  

  • as well of how you kind of represent all the  different parts of this system because as  

  • we're saying we are trying to look at it in a very  holistic way um it's about kind of moving together  

  • the many different kind of facets um and i think  that does make the conversation quite tricky to  

  • um to explain in succinctly so i've got this  kind of these demonstrations are really nice  

  • ways of explaining that exploring that and  i think we've just been making some notes as  

  • you've all been talking around it feels like  there's a big a couple of big things that are  

  • coming through around kind of um this shift  being really about mindsets and understanding  

  • seeing ourselves differently in relation to  the systems that we're part of whether that's  

  • being part of nature whether that's seeing the  kind of connections between social environmental  

  • distribution kind of um making things that change  that's appropriate to place in context and how  

  • can lots of people be involved in that and then  particularly kind of co-creation so citizens being  

  • involved in shaping that change and i'm wondering  if you think about all of those things together  

  • and i'm sure there are other bits you'd add in  if there is a is there is there a tension between  

  • um the way we think what we think fashion is at  the moment and what it could potentially be and  

  • is there a tension there between kind of fashion  as a system and clothing as a as something that's  

  • essential to to people is is there anyone  got any thoughts around those kinds of  

  • is there a tension between what we're currently  seeing of fashion and what we think fashion is  

  • and where we think it might need to move to and  whether that's is there a intention of that being  

  • on to where we want to go i feel that tension  yeah i mean it made it quite hard to prepare  

  • today because um i'm quite triggered by the word  fashion actually um i i see it as part of a kind  

  • of capitalist colonialist system i think it's  quite hard to separate those two things out quite  

  • often um i really would like to see an empowered  clothing system emerging that a place-based  

  • empowered clothing system emerging um yeah i i  definitely think that there's um difficulties  

  • in how we define that and how we think outside  of what we've been ingrained into you know we're  

  • part of this system that is killing its life  support system this culture that i would think  

  • of it more like a cult actually than a culture you  know this kind of perpetual growth mindset which  

  • which um the fashion system predominantly fast  fashion is a part of how that that requires  

  • many systemic changes including our economic  system you know and how do we kind of navigate  

  • that so i have questions you know i don't have  solutions but i'm very very glad to kind of have  

  • this forum to to share thoughts with all you  guys and try and develop some solutions are  

  • you going to come in there francesco's are  you unmuted yeah yes actually yeah there is  

  • attention also in the world fashion itself but  if we consider as you suggest clothing instead  

  • actually i think there is no um the notion of uh  buying less but also regeneration could be more um  

  • actually there is less of attention but i think  as well we again going back to the point of also  

  • the centering sustainability if we also look at  other approaches to sustainability for instance  

  • communities in the global south they are using  already very much approaches to buying less or  

  • buy better or repairing clothes or making our own  clothes and also maybe also making things together  

  • because then uh in that way through the my joy of  making things together we can activate resilient  

  • communities in place that are flourishing and  thriving and for instance um just to show some  

  • other examples um uh kate fletcher she did the  project craftable use some years ago that was  

  • looking really much at this of the exactly the  usership instead of ownership but also um more  

  • recently she's also worked on the fashionable  ecologies project in a small town in northwest  

  • of england that really points out to alternative  approaches to a fashion in a post-growth scenario  

  • but also as well there are other organizations  like lonehood in london that actually are creating  

  • a rental revolution of uh clothing or in my  work with communities in east london we upcycle  

  • pre-consumer waste fabric with marginalized  women in a deprived area and then create uh  

  • clothes for donation so as well overall this  is shaping a new regenerative system of fashion  

  • and hopefully we will try to solve some of  these tensions thank you i think it's a really  

  • interesting shift from the uh or potentially  shift from kind of a top-down change into like  

  • what can grow up and i wonder um lillian if you  have any thoughts on that and how how how can  

  • fashion as a kind of industry um is there a bit  of identity crisis with with what's happening  

  • and how can it kind of think about those different  shifts particularly when it comes to things like  

  • decentralization which are quite different to the  not the business models that exist at the moment  

  • yes um there i mean fashion is always evolving  right so it's of course not static um and i think  

  • this conversation is a proof of that um i think  that there is definitely a lot of new business  

  • models coming out and ownership was mentioned you  know thinking about usability over ownership and  

  • i think you know the question i wanted to ask  as well is do we need to own everything um  

  • and we definitely see that with the companies  we're working on too you know trying new circular  

  • models um thinking about or exploring um fabrics  that are different alternative regenerative  

  • um so a lot of that is going on it is still small  scale it is hard to scale and you know you it's  

  • very hard to do that in isolation as one company  so you do need to come together with others  

  • and you need designers you need local groups um  you know you need that bottom-up approach as well  

  • and we haven't really talked much about policy  today we haven't talked too much about the public  

  • um but that's definitely one  for the to support as well um  

  • you know things like consumer extended producer  responsibility helps a lot um but there's also  

  • um you know more work that can be done like  just uh now during cop we saw that there was  

  • actually a call for preferential trade  agreements for importing you know organic  

  • low fiber materials from over 50 companies  like calling for governments to help them  

  • with this and so we're seeing that interesting  conversation happening at the global level too  

  • um and uh yes i think some governments have  stepped up the challenge and we have the eu  

  • circular economy action plan there are these  things that are happening but you know again  

  • it's it's um focused on one part of the world and  the world is very big and fashion is global um

  • there's also something really interesting about  um a lot of recent reports that have come out  

  • pointing out misinformation and data gaps in  fashion and again i think companies are operating  

  • on on limited information uh which also makes it  more challenging um and so as civil society as  

  • practitioners as academia we can help to uh create  independent research around that um you know even  

  • just that number uh how big is the carbon impact  of the fashion industry uh the most recent report  

  • says two percent i've seen eight percent i've  seen ten percent you know it's just um really  

  • difficult because the com uh the system is complex  um and more investment into that research piece in  

  • the data piece will also be really key just  so that we can make some informed decisions

  • thank you and i think a lot of what you were  saying there really um takes on something that  

  • i thought i really loved and what you said  francesca about the kind of infrastructure  

  • piece and this idea of like middle up down  of like what is it that is will enable  

  • all of these different changes that are happening  at different levels to really connect and to  

  • create that overall systemic change and i know um  alice in the conversations we've been having that  

  • um there's a lot of kind of infrastructure  support that is needed no one has anything  

  • you could share from what you've been doing  around the challenges that you see but also  

  • potential opportunities um if we can create  work with us work with policy work with um  

  • civil society institutions to kind of think  about what the infrastructure might look like  

  • yeah absolutely i think um it's something that  we've been um really um sort of surprised well  

  • learning about as a business is that um  there are parts of the infrastructure  

  • that sort of belong to the food systems but  cross over into our fashion systems very much  

  • and um just for example uh leather is graded  based on its sort of its um as a in its raw  

  • state sort of on its scratches and its size  on its weight different breeds um are are  

  • vastly different and they are um segregated based  for sort of a in a leather industry criteria  

  • not on agricultural practices which might result  in them looking a bit differently less uniform and

  • potentially and quite often a lot more character  which is something that in the fashion industry  

  • we like to have um well historically  you know uniformity and sort of a uh um  

  • vast scales of the same product and sort of  treat it as off the roll and i think when it  

  • comes to working with natural fibers which are  sort of an integral piece of working with um

  • food systems that we would like to support  there has to be a recalibration and what we  

  • then expect as the design community to be  working with and also be communicating with  

  • to um the customers and that really is something  that we're coming up against because um  

  • there is more character there is more uniformity  and there needs to be a different expectation  

  • in in how we um consume goods that doesn't sit  within the narrative of um you know trend based  

  • and sort of extensive consumption and so i think  it's it's having that more of a holistic vision  

  • of of what it is you're working with what  it is um you're sort of buying into and what  

  • um what that really means both for a designer  to be working with and making and also for  

  • um for who you're selling it to and what  they know um how to care for it and and  

  • see those pieces in a different light um  i think the our struggle is um sort of  

  • intersecting an industry that sees it  as a commodity to be globally exported  

  • but actually it is really integral piece to  strengthening um a local food community also  

  • thank you and and i wonder it feels like that  that is a real shift in kind of mindsets and  

  • the way designers are engaging um i wonder  if it's similar for you justine um like how  

  • you kind of create that mindset shift and  what you're kind of seeing um that's needed  

  • in that infrastructure to support that and to  support people to engage with it differently  

  • yeah do you mean in how we're  going to go about developing this  

  • in particular yeah you're thinking about the  kind of yeah what is what's missing what would  

  • you like to see that could support  that infrastructure to be developed

  • yeah it's difficult because obviously  it requires investment and it's it's  

  • you know as you were mentioning who owns this  equipment these facilities um that are required  

  • um what i'm seeing you know i i'm i've come  at this from a very much the behavioral  

  • aspect that behavioral change is the skills  that need developing um it plays into  

  • this issue of why people over consume what i found  is when we've been sharing skills with people  

  • though those people are so invested and engaged in  the project because they've developed a new skill  

  • they've been their kind of self-esteem their  confidence has been enhanced by the process of  

  • working with these natural materials which are  difficult you know what we what we're kind of  

  • being channeled in our educational system  into is to become consumers with who pay  

  • other people for their skills in the global  south and we've been kind of disempowered  

  • in that way i think that plays into our loss  of self-esteem which means we have to consume  

  • so there's it's a two-fold aspect we we need the  skills we need the kind of financial investment  

  • for the manufacturing infrastructure or we develop  a kind of cooperative system of people with skills  

  • who want to share and pool resources and you know  ideally would be setting me some form of mini mill  

  • um we we obviously need um a sweet spot  in terms of mechanization which makes  

  • growing these crops viable right you know  this year we did everything by hand we had  

  • 70 hours worth of hand spinning to produce one leg  of a pair of jeans so yeah you know it begs the  

  • question why why is there such social disparity  that you know our ancestors could do that and  

  • people in other countries can do that we can't  um but yeah realistically during this transition  

  • during this paradigm shift we need to somehow  develop a mechanization at a mid scale at a  

  • humane scale at a scale that doesn't um exploit  people or planet um and yeah i know we're looking  

  • into that is all i can say we're looking into um  developing with a you know number of different  

  • people um but it's not easy right now um yeah  to get that in in between stage that we require  

  • and that sounds like similar to what you were  saying francesca around the need for that sort of  

  • support and both financially but  also in a kind of um i guess mindset  

  • and in interest investment as well um is there  anything you'd like to ride on the kind of yeah  

  • that needs that infrastructure and maybe why  why we're finding it hard to do that yes uh so  

  • uh actually i really like what you said it's  a mindset shift and it's from doing as well  

  • in sustainability often the narrative is about  doing less bad but actually instead we need to do  

  • more good uh for nature um and there are  so many different things that can enable  

  • that infrastructure for instance adopting and  many of them i've already been mentioned today  

  • so adopting regenerative farming practices  but also sustainable sourcing strategies and  

  • diversifying the fiber basket because it's true  our clothes are made of very few fibers generally  

  • but also we need to reduce the negative  negative impacts of fashion manufacturing on  

  • the environment and on people as well and create  new tools to assist companies in assessing their  

  • impacts on living nature but also maybe we haven't  mentioned today as well ensuring transability and  

  • and transparency throughout the supply chain  is also fundamental in this shift and also new  

  • business models and strategies and frameworks  for companies to really embed sustainability  

  • and and also new and compelling narratives as well  because some consumers still have the perception  

  • that sustainable fashion products are not as  beautiful or maybe they don't meet the standards  

  • of traditional fashion or also maybe buyers or  customers also feel that maybe alternative fibers  

  • are limited or not affordable and and finally  as well and that was mentioned also by others  

  • is that we really need collaboration because to  really preserve and regenerate biodiversity it  

  • can be done by one company in isolation but we  need collaboration across brands but also with  

  • the media governments ngos and also so to campaign  and lobby and actually accelerate policy reforms  

  • so lots to do yes so much to you and i feel like  i feel like we could talk about this for so long  

  • there is so much in this i think it all layers  around how we engage as individuals as collectives  

  • um how the kind of wider system shifts as well um  but i think we're gonna have to start wrapping up  

  • in a second but i'm gonna ask actually each  of you if you'd be happy to share um one  

  • one question or reflection um that you think  people who are watching this could take away  

  • because a lot of people who are watching  will be um not involved kind of actively  

  • in the system so what's kind of one question  people could ask themselves about about um  

  • what the hell they're consuming um  or what their how they're engaging  

  • in fashion um and if it's okay i will start  with you francesca because you were nothing

  • okay well actually my last um i realized that my  last answer sounded maybe a bit overwhelming there  

  • is so much to be done but actually just because  there is too much to be done uh we can't just wait  

  • uh for police reforms or for things to happen but  we need to act here and now and uh at all levels  

  • and for this uh just maybe wrapping up on some of  the um things i mentioned before we need also to  

  • re combine the de-colonizing and the  de-carbonizing agendas and um also really build  

  • on a plurality of voices and actions that also  they're based on really values of care longevity  

  • and community values and also that these solutions  are very much rooted in places but also that we  

  • learn from tradition in order to inform innovation  and that we can build more uh new and compelling  

  • compelling narratives around fashion the fashion  system brilliant thank you and alice can i ask  

  • you to go next absolutely i would just yeah  just um i think that it's a really exciting  

  • point that there is so much interdependency on  the success of building new systems and having  

  • a new and restorative approach to fashion and  that from as a designer if if you're a designer  

  • um like that's a really exciting space to be in  that that there is room and space and a time to  

  • um have a different approach from the norm because  they don't think that many of these i think many  

  • of these solutions don't fit into the model that  we've already got and so it's a really um sort of  

  • like thrilling place to be that it's sort of like  landscape unknown and so much to learn from other  

  • people different industries like you might not  think applied to yours because you're used to  

  • you know having materials arrive at your studio  not knowing what came before and so i think it's  

  • it's a really um sort of exciting place  to um be overwhelmed with questions  

  • good questions thanks alice um  lillian do you want to go next

  • yeah i would like to have us think hard about how  different fashion communities will be impacted by  

  • the move towards sustainable and regenerative and  by that i mean communities across the value chain  

  • um you know fashion employs over 75 million  people worldwide and um if we all i think  

  • we all do need to switch to recycled fabrics or  regenerative fabrics but what then happens with um  

  • you know the farmers that were growing cotton  or um the people that are manufacturing clothing  

  • if we're all switching to more locally based or  obviously consuming less which we do need to do  

  • so um yeah i think thinking about that just  transition um and and having some real options and  

  • real solutions for these communities um is going  to be really key because that's also going to help  

  • us get government support in terms of new policies  and new systems um you know making sure that there  

  • are better options for those communities and that  we're kind of not just leaving and letting them  

  • figure it out on their own um so yeah i think that  just transition is gonna be key to think about  

  • thank you um and finally justine please um i think  i began by saying that we need to evolve from  

  • being a consumer species to a restorer a species  and for me this involves changing our mindset from  

  • asking what can i take to what can i give um  so i would suggest people support um ground up  

  • cooperatives like fibre shed who are implementing  tangible systems of um verifying um production  

  • from now on you they have a climate beneficial  verification which which holds produces to very  

  • high standards of accounts so you know it's maybe  contributing to to ground up cooperatives that are  

  • already implementing some um tangible systems for  regenerating textiles and fashion great thank you  

  • so much and i think yeah in all those remarks that  the real importance of really really holding the  

  • hole in in mind when we're working so that means  um working locally but also really thinking about  

  • that the ramifications that has globally and  ensuring that we're working together to think  

  • about those changes um so thank you so much to  all of you um and if you'd like to find more out  

  • more about regenerative design or any of the work  that's been undertaken by our great panel today  

  • then check out the links in the youtube chat and  across the rsa social media and but finally and  

  • of course most importantly just a huge thanks to  our great panel so thank you to justine francesco  

  • alice and lillian and thank you all for watching  and i will see you again soon thank you bye

hello everyone i'm josie warden the rsa's head of  regenerative design and it's my great pleasure to  

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