around for a long time, and to get in my opinion two of the really greatest human beings that

we have living on this planet today and both together. They have never been together before,

although I have had them individually. They have so much in common. Bill Gates and Aamir

Khan. What do they have in common? Two of the world's greatest school and college dropouts.

So if you are going to drop out then don't worry, this is your future. They are also

in a way moving on to phase two of their lives, a new chapter. I can give you a little anecdote.

About two years ago or may be a little more than that when Bill Gates was in phase one

of his life, and we were talking to whole lot of software people, rather than more interesting

people like you, I asked him to give a sound check, say one two three four and he said

one billion, two billion, three billion. He was counting notes then and now he is counting

people being saved by vaccination, by vaccines, in terms of millions and millions of them.

It's a huge terrific change in your life, phase two. And Aamir, in a way you have also

moved from, of course you have not given up your earlier acting career, but you have also

moved on to social issues with this more path breaking television programme, which had a

huge impact and everybody said you are nuts, why are you doing this sort of stuff? Why

don't you stick to movies? So what motivated, what caused that change?

You know I don't know. I think it's; you know I was at a discussion sometime back and you

know one of the questions asked to my team in Satyamev Jayate was, what are the good

qualities that a NGO should have? It was a question asked to Satya actually, my director.

And he said that one of the good qualities any NGO should have, or any person who wants

to be a part of social service should have is that, it's not just the emotion of wanting

to do something for somebody else, which is in itself a good emotion, that you want to

do for someone, but if you feel that your life is incomplete if you don't. So you are

doing it for yourself really, of course you are doing it for someone else. But I think

that's what is important. If, and it's something that happens to you if you feel like. It doesn't

have to happen to you. But I think in me what grew was this feeling that I need it to for

myself, do something. But I felt better about myself when I felt; I feel I am so privileged

in so many ways. And I feel that. I really feel that when I see people around me who

are not as privileged, I can't just sit by and be comfortable with that. There is a need

in me to reach out and perhaps help if I can.

And in a way you are lucky to have a position where people will listen

And I like it to use it to the best of my abilities. So I guess that's why I have moved

into this space where I am. It's for my own emotional or mental, you know, peace of mind

and satisfaction.

Bill Gates you have also got a little more emotional in phase two. I have seen you almost

choke up talking about your Dad, about how your wife motivated you, how your Dad's your

hero, and how all this means a little more to your heart then your head. So what motivated

you to make your change?

Well I think it's very similar. I loved my career in software and being part of building

Microsoft, the personal computer and 3D internet. In my 20s and 30s I was fanatical. I saw what

innovation could do. But there came a point when I thought that I should turn that work

over to other people and think about how innovation, does it naturally benefit everyone? Does it

reach down to the person? In fact I got a chance to see all of that as I travelled the

world, and a big believer in innovation. I thought okay, we can push it in that direction.

So it's allowed me to learn a lot of new things and I wouldn't be able to do it except for

the luck, the ability to resources that came from that first career. And actually use a

lot that I learnt then in terms of engaging scientists and driving innovation as fast

as we can.

And how important was your wife in this chapter two of your life?

When I first said to my wife that I was considering retiring from my full time work in Microsoft.

You know she...

She said are you crazy

Well she was careful not to jump on it because she wanted it to be my decision you know,

that I will never look back and feel like that wasn't, that I really picked the time,

that I felt comfortable with that. Because it has been so central to my life I'm certainly

enthused about it. During my time in Microsoft, I always had somebody who was my key partner,

Paul Allen in founding a new era. Steve Ballmer as the company became big and complicated

and now in this era it's truly my wife who's my key confidant and so we get to do this

together.

And a great motivator. She is a driving force behind a lot of what you do.

Absolutely, she is very energetic about these things. She is actually in Malaysia this week

at a Women Delivers Conference, talking about the reproductive health and how women get

access to those tools. She is equally passionate and also was at Microsoft. So some of the

ways we think about the measurement and managing people, getting the best people, that's a

common background.

Aamir when Bill Gates got launched into this phase two, he talked to and convinced a lot

of billionaires around the world, especially Warren Buffet, to donate a lot. To be philanthropic

and donate to his organisation and to other organisations and make changes. What about

India, we do not see enough of that. We have got a great example of Azim Premji whom you

highlighted in your...

Yes in our show we did showcase what Mr Premji is doing and I think he is doing really wonderful

work and really we should, we should all take a cue from that. And certainly I feel that,

I mean I do believe that in India there is a lot of philanthropy, there are huge amounts

that we often donate, but it's usually to religious organisations. We donate a lot to

religion. Maybe that is a need in us to try and safeguard our passage into heaven and,

I don't know; you know because we feel that if we donate a lot to temples, mosques or

you know religious institutions and that's where I see most of the big donations going.

So it's not that, it's not that we don't donate. We donate huge amounts but they go into religious

institutions. Whereas we don't donate to education or to health care. And I personally feel that

if you, if you, you know donate to education and health care, the God up there is going

to be really happy. So he'll probably be happier. So I mean I think that it's time that people

who are well off financially in India and who would like to contribute to nation building,

to building this nation into what it can be and to trying to achieve its full potential

for the youth for the kids of our country; and for you know, emotional happiness for

all of us, that is one area that we can really help in, you know, in donating huge sums to

education, healthcare and other such things rather than just religion.

You think like you need two hands to clap or it's a bit of a failure, the lack of institutions

that they can feel save, the money going to the right place. Like if you donate to the

PM's Relief Fund, you just feel God knows what will happen, where will it go, be part

of the budget. But if you got something, the Indian equivalent of the Gates Foundation

or something, where you know, I spend the money here it's not going to go to salaries,

it's going to go where targeted.

I don't agree with that entirely Prannoy, because I feel that while yes, we are concerned

about you know where are we putting our money, or where are we donating. So that's a concern

that all of us should have certainly. But I don't think that you won't find any institution

or...

If you will look you will find them in India as well now

You will. It will take you a week or so to find it out. And you will if you really are

interested. I don't think it is that difficult to find out.

That's not a sufficient excuse

Yes that's not a sufficient excuse as far as I am concerned

Bill Gates when you meet India entrepreneurs, billionaires, are you getting any traction

with them that they should also donate to the second miracle or miracle of say vaccines?

I am sure that philanthropy in India will continue to grow and I think if there is awareness

that, although the government can do a lot, that there is something sort of innovative,

whether it's good schools showing a way on that. The people like Pratham who I think

are doing an amazing job and I am sure there are others like that. In agriculture there

is Pradan, getting smart young people, getting out there, pushing innovative techniques.

And so yes, philanthropy is going to grow. The only thing I do is as people are interested

in philanthropy I share with them how much fun it could be. And talk to them about the

fact that you should move from the place that you are, were, successful, usually business,

you are going to feel uncomfortable, because you are going to be in an area where the measures

are not as clear and you haven't had the 20 or 30 year period of experience where you

are really familiar with the territory. You will have to engage with the government to

at least to show the way on certain issues. So it's tricky. I think that one of the earliest

philanthropists anywhere was the Tata family. They were actually a few years, even before

Rockefeller and Carnegie and I learnt a lot from those early foundations because they

were pretty brilliant in what they did. I think the more people give, the more it makes

other people think that, should I do the same? And I hope that in 10 years from now we can

say that this was the golden era of philanthropy in India and the rest of the world

You do find some traction when you talk to them

Absolutely, the interest in discussion is very strong. In fact there have been in a

number of meetings and people are finding their way. That boundary of how you connect

and you know show models of government, some capacity building is taking place. The US

is in this respect further down the learning curve. There is no lack of places to give.

And some agree that the universities have to reach out a little more and have to say

that, okay here is programme that you can fund and they should. That's how that happened

in US, which is the best...

Really organised, beautifully organized, universities of America. But I must say from talking to

people that you have spoken to, you, yes you, had made them think and they are kind of on

the verge, wondering how much, because when you've got 20 billion, what's a couple of

billion or ten billion actually.

Well you can promise that you can't take it with you. You know building kermits is out

of fashion.

When you say, just getting back to the score of the topic today, when you move say, from

the miracle of software to the miracle of vaccines, what is the miracle of that? In

a nutshell, what do you mean?

Well, when you say what's the most tragic thing in the world there will be a lot of

things that would come to mind. But I think parents having to bury a child would very

high on the list and particularly if there is a tool that exists that could be very inexpensive

and it could get to every child, literally will stop millions of these deaths. You know

if there was nothing to stop it, okay, you can almost think of that as fate. But when

there is a vaccine, that actually rich kids who are not at the risk of the disease much

are getting, but the kids who need it the most aren't getting, that struck me as a terrible

tragedy. Where has the innovation gone wrong? So now we can see that we are making progress,

we're getting more vaccines out to all the kids in the world including the kids in India.

Give us like a success story. I know you are like an eternal optimist. Are you also an

optimist?

Yes I think I am a kind of idealist actually

But like, that you feel things will happen. That's what...

Yes I believe, I believe, I believe in the good in people and I believe that will emerge

and it is emerging

That's also a motivating factor when you feel that

I feel, I mean I feel that in India right now. You know when I was in college, the two

years that I was in college, at that time I felt that there is a different kind of buzz

around me, and as time went by I feel that, you know, from the era of oh nothing is going

to change, oh this is how it is going to be and this is how it is, I think now there is

a change. I think people want to contribute. People are eager to contribute and that's

a specific change that I felt. You know even the show like Satayamev Jayate. When we started

the show we had no idea on GC if you are talking about, you know, female foeticide, general

entertainment channel where people are watching serials and you know, fun stuff, here we are

doing a one and half hour program on Sunday morning when nobody watches television, it's

called graveyard time. And we are coming with a one and half hour programme on topics like

domestic violence and child sexual abuse and female foeticide, you know, who's going to

watch this?

And it had huge ratings

So, but why? That means people want to change. They want to understand; they want to make

their lives better. And I feel that, that the fact that it became such a huge success,

it became such a movement, indicates to us that India is ready for change and it is changing.

And that was really encouraging to someone like me and you know people who want things

to move

These youngsters are much better than us, right? Not that we are at the same, well we

are roughly the same

Well yes, I mean I would like to believe that. I think that today the youth is really motivated,

they want to bring about a change, and I feel that happening. I feel that happening I mean,

when was the last time you saw people coming out on the road and you know protesting about

something? I have never seen that in my, when I was in school and college I never saw that.

But today we see that

Yes, huge numbers

There is a lot of energy that is you know...

You know in our age why was there a feeling of hopelessness, was that the country going

for 50 years at a rate, growing at a rate of 2.5% a year? It's called a Hindu rate of

growth and we thought that democracy never works. You've got to have a dictatorship if

you want 8%. But India has proved that democracy can get you 8% growth rate and these kids

are doing it. When you go to the only large democracy that grows at such a high rate it

brings hope. But it does not mean that there is going to be a trickle down, the market

does not work.

Well some agree the market has been interfered with when you have subsidies, labour, land,

you know, not allowing companies to come in. You will be surprised by how all the market

works if we give it a chance to work. And that's for when we do the reforms

But in certain areas doesn't, like vaccines for example. But give us some, an example