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  • while we start in Australia, where Google has threatened to switch off its search engine should a new law come into force that would make it pay for showing local news articles on its site.

  • The government of Prime Minister Scott Morrison argues that since Google profits from linking to news providers, the search engine should pay for the journalism.

  • It is a debate reflected all over the world.

  • Let's hear first from Google's Australian director Mel Silver, arguing against the new law.

  • If this version of the code were to become law, it would give us no real choice but to stop making Google Search available in Australia.

  • In its current form, the code remains unworkable and if it became law, would hurt not just Google, but small publishers, small businesses and the millions of Australians that use our services every day.

  • Australia makes our rules for things you could do in Australia that's done in our Parliament.

  • It's done by our government and that's how things work here in Australia and people who want to work with that in Australia.

  • You're very welcome, but we don't respond to threats.

  • Prime Minister Scott Morrison there well, our correspondent in Sydney Shima Khalil says the proposed law also has the support of the Australian media.

  • Short reaction wasn't just from Scott Morrison against Google.

  • We heard from lawmakers who called the threat to pull out from Australia blackmailing.

  • Some called it the big companies bullying democracy.

  • The government has been adamant that they want this law to be pushed through the Parliament and have gained a lot of political support.

  • Have also gained support from media outlets.

  • A swell who've really been losing a lot of money, Uh, in advertising revenue over the years.

  • The government eyes arguing that because the tech giants like Google, like Facebook, have gained so many consumers, so many customers and people who use their platforms to read been used billions of dollars in advertising revenue that we should pay Australian media outlets for their journalism.

  • And this is a very much needed financial avenue for those media outlets that have been losing money.

  • We heard official reports, for example, that say that the Australian print industry has lost 75% of its advertising revenues since 2000 and five, so they're trying to balance this power.

  • They're trying Thio also introduce a little bit of government oversight in that relationship between the media outlets and the Google.

  • But Google are equally, if not more resistance, of course.

  • Well, our senior tech reporters very Kleiman says that the world will be watching carefully because what happens in Australia could set a precedent for other countries.

  • It's gonna be a really interesting one to watch, isn't it?

  • I mean, in a way, Australia isn't really a massive market for Google.

  • You know it, it wouldn't harm it.

  • Huge need to pull out.

  • That said it made $4 billion out of using its services in Australia last year.

  • So you know it is making money out of it.

  • It's kind of become this thing of who blinks first.

  • You've got the Australian PM saying, You know, we may affect the rules here, not you.

  • You can't blackmail last Google saying Well, actually, everybody uses us, you know you need us.

  • Um, they said they've already last week.

  • This is quite interesting.

  • Actually, they've already last week piloted blocking new sites to about 1% of Google users.

  • They called it an experiment and said they wanted to see how much difference it made whether you know whether actually these are strange in new services were missed.

  • Well, I think Australia will be hoping that they are on, I guess.

  • For Google, the fear is that if Australia go ahead with this, it could set a precedent for other countries.

  • Exactly right.

  • What's interesting, actually, is that they've just sat down with Frantz and agreed a agreed some sort of thing about how they're going to pay for French, uh, immediate to be used.

  • So you know, it's not impossible for a deal to be done here.

  • I think much like the media industry, you know a lot of advertising.

  • Disl Advertising money is going to big tech.

  • Now it's going to Google onto Facebook.

  • Australia is no exception.

  • For every $100 that's spent on digital ads, 81 is going to those companies.

  • So you know there's a real sense that smaller are the media is massively losing out on Australia fields.

  • I think that it wants to claw some of that back.

  • Some of that big spend needs to come back home on DSO we do.

  • We know how the people affected feel about this.

  • The actual users in Australia, who may not be able to access Google.

  • I think there's a really mixed reaction here.

  • You know, some people feel like, Well, we need Google, you know, just let them get on with it.

  • They're offering a service that we like.

  • It's familiar and we've been using it for ages and time moves on, you know, how long are we going to be able to protect all of these industries that we might have had for a long time?

  • But actually, the landscape just doesn't work for many more.

  • And, of course, there are others who are very loyal.

  • Who's saying, you know, this is a huge firm?

  • I said it.

  • It made four billion U Australian dollars in revenue last year, paid only about 45 million in tax.

  • You know, maybe it is about right that that's balance is shifting.

  • Interestingly, Sir Tim Berners Lee, who asked, You know, eyes, the inventor of the worldwide Well, he has spoken out and said, Actually, this isn't fair.

  • You know, this goes completely against the principle.

  • There's a for free Internet you cannot dictate who spends their money where and therefore who gets to be accessible where that's just not the way the web is meant to work.

while we start in Australia, where Google has threatened to switch off its search engine should a new law come into force that would make it pay for showing local news articles on its site.

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