about today's events.

He's a multiple Emmy and Peabody Award-winning journalist

and "The New York Times" best-selling author

of "What Unites Us."

Here is my conversation with the one and only Dan Rather.

Dan, thank you so much for being here tonight.

-Jimmy, thank you for having me on.

It's a privilege and an honor to be with you. Thank you.

-We thought the big news of the day

was going to be how things went in Georgia

and with the electoral-vote count,

but then this afternoon, Trump supporters stormed the Capitol.

And we're talking a few hours before this will air,

but could you give us a breakdown

of what happened today and where things stand now

as events continue to unfold?

-Well, things are continuing to unfold.

During the evening, I expect they will continue

even deep into the early morning hours

because this has been an absolutely --

and frequently overworked word but an apt word in this case.

This is an absolutely unprecedented situation

for our country and one -- and a very serious situation.

Basically what happened was that, increasingly, it appeared

that the two Democratic candidates were winning

and had won the Senate runoff races in Georgia.

This would, of course, mean that the Democrats

would have effective control of the Senate

in the new Biden administration.

So, that news didn't really get solidified

until the wee hours of early this morning.

After that, there was a rally planned

in front of the White House, a pro-Trump rally.

The President -- I use the word "incited" it.

You can't use any other word.

Incited the crowd to march down to the Capitol

and to force a delay

in the certification of Biden's victory.

That was to be the other big headline of the day.

The big headline of the day was expected to be Democrats

win two Senate races in Georgia

and the combined Congressional power in the country

certifying the final electoral votes.

Even as Vice President Pence was presiding in the chamber

and the final certification of the Biden victory

was getting under way,

then this crowd stormed the U.S. Capitol.

You can describe it as "protesters," if you like.

I, myself, think they were certainly rioters.

They broke windows. They were violent.

They stormed the Capitol.

They stormed actually into the room where --

the chamber, where the deliberation was happening.

All hell broke loose.

There was no law and there was no order for a while.

You had mob violence

inside the Capitol of the United States.

Now finally the law-enforcement officers, first of all,

they got some reinforcements.

Secondly, they sort of solidified their own response.

And most, if not all,

of what I call the rioters were put outside the Capitol.

It's a little hard to say what the situation is at this moment,

and I emphasize that it's fluid.

But here's the thing, Jimmy.

We have never seen this in our country before --

an effort to overthrow

the legitimate vote of the people

in a presidential election.

This was by any dictionary definition

a coup attempt, which is to say,

"Okay, we've had an election.

We, this mob, we don't agree

with the outcome of the election,

which even the courts have certified in their own way.

And we're going to overturn it."

That's a definition of a coup, and I do think

this could be described as a case of domestic violence.

Not everybody in this crowd of people were violent today.

Not nearly everybody.

But there certainly were outright rioters

who were taking part in domestic violence,

and the overall scene was one of a coup attempt.

It has failed. That's pretty much where we are.

-Do you think there will be charges against these people?

-Well, let's be very clear. There should be

because if you break windows in the U.S. Capitol

and go in and occupy the offices

of elected representatives of the country,

those are crimes.

Whether they will be prosecuted or not,

frankly, I have my doubts as time goes along.

But there is a movement to try to identify those people

who were actually breaking windows and occupying offices

and bring charges against them.

But the real important question of the moment, Jimmy,

and I think this will play out over the next few days,

is what is to be done about the president of the United States?

Make no mistake -- there are talks in the Capitol

among some Republicans, including some Democrats,

of should some move be made to remove President Trump

from office in just his last 13 days?

He only has 13 more days in office.

That shows you how serious the situation is.

I'm not saying that any of that's going to happen.

You know, under the 25th Amendment to the Constitution,

if the Vice President

and a majority of the cabinet secretaries

agree that the President is not capable

or won't carry out his duties, then they can ask the Congress

to have a vote in both houses to remove the President.

That's a major step.

I wouldn't go so far as to say

that we can expect that step to happen,

but it gives you an indication, again, of how serious this is,

when you have that kind of serious talk

in the Capitol of the United States.

It's the result of this unprecedented day

in which as a country, as a people,

we embarrassed ourselves. -How --

-In the eyes of the world,

we clearly embarrassed ourselves.

-How much is President Trump to blame for what happened today

and who else is to blame?

-Well, I'll give you my opinion, Jimmy,

but, you know, I always like to be straight with you.

There are plenty of people who have other opinions,

but I think that history is going to judge

that President Trump primarily is responsible

for what happened today.

The power of the presidency

is a power to inspire and/or to incite.

And, clearly, President Trump has been trying to incite

just this kind of action.

There's no -- You know,

I don't see that there's any real argument about it.

The argument can be, "Well, he was justified in doing it,"

which is a false argument.

But the direct answer to your question --

that the buck starts with President Trump,

and it goes through those members of his party,

the Republican Party.

Not all members of the Republican Party,

but, really, a large majority of members of the Republican Party

have aided and abetted the President

in convincing a large section of the American public

that Joe Biden would be an illegitimate president,

that the election was not legitimate

and Biden wasn't legitimately elected.

It started with the President.

It goes through his enablers and allies

and people within the Republican Party.

And then, again, frankly, Jimmy, none of us can say

that we don't share at least some of the blame

because we have let this happen.

We have reached this point in our history

where we have an undisciplined mob,

including some rioters and domestic terrorism,

storming our own Capitol.

Exclamation point.

-Were you surprised to see how easy it was for them

to break into the Capitol?

-I was surprised.

Perhaps, I shouldn't have been, but I thought, frankly,

that a combination of the Capitol police

and the Washington police and federal forces,

such as the FBI and others,

would have a plan for meeting this kind of effort

to a mob take over the Capitol,

so I was surprised

that law enforcement was not more effective.

In the early going, it was not effective at all.

But before we criticize the law-enforcement officers,

I want to know what instructions they had.

I don't know what instructions they had.

In the early going, they just -- they fled the mob.

They just -- They absolutely fled.

They just fled -- The law-enforcement officers,

that Capitol police, and others there just fled the scene.

After a while, they began to try to get control,

but in the early going, the performance was very poor.

But, again, that may be on orders from some other place,

including, you know, somebody in the Capitol

who's in charge of the force.

We just have to see.

But, you know, as we speak now, Jimmy,

the National Guard has been called in.

I think a strong case could be made

given the consequences of today that the National Guard

should have been standing by as this day started

because President Trump had already scheduled that rally.

But nonetheless, order is being restored in the Capitol.

The National Guard is now there.

Things will probably simmer down somewhat

over the next 12 to 24 hours,

but we as a country, as a people,

we're stuck with the question, "What do we do now?"

We know this is embarrassing.

We know this is not the American way.

We know it's perilous.

It's very dangerous to have this situation prevail.

So the question is, what do we do now?

-There's lots more I want to talk to you about.

More with Dan Rather when we come back

to "The Tonight Show," everybody.

-Thank you, Jimmy.