The U.

S House of Representatives on Tuesday approved a Pentagon budget bill that also expands sanctions against companies building the German Russian Nord Stream two pipeline.

Now the bill passed with an overwhelming majority of both Democrats and Republicans far exceeding the two thirds super majority that would be needed to override a presidential veto.

The bill must now go to the U.

S Senate, where it is expected to easily pants the U.

S opposition to the pipeline goes back to President Obama's second term president Trump's surprisingly agreed with this foreign policy position that he inherited from the Obama administration.

Now work on the pipeline stopped a year ago under pressure from the US but it's due to restart any day now.

Germany has rejected US calls for a stop just as it has rejected any notion of sanctions Yet.

You listen, get you know what our position is on Nord Stream two and possible sanctions way reject them because we do not consider extra territorial sanctions to be compatible with international law punishment, and I think this has not changed needs getting done.

My next guest says that Russia is trying to sell Nord Stream two as a done deal, which it is not.

I'm happy to welcome Benjamin Schmidt to the show.

Benjamin served at the U.

S State Department as a European energy security adviser.

He's now a research fellow at Harvard University.

Benjamin is good to have you back on the program before we talk about what's happening in Washington and in Congress.

Tell me what you mean about Russia trying to convince the world that there is no stopping of Nord Stream two.

Hi, Brent.

It's always a pleasure to be on Deutsche Avella.

Great to be back.

Well, let's start with the situation at hand right now.

Today I just wrote a piece for the Center for European Policy Analysis in Washington this morning.

Um, and I'm looking at this situation as Gazprom, reprising its December 2019 dis info playbook in order to make North Stream two look unstoppable with the intent of dissuading passage of these targeted congressional sanctions.

After all, if the project can't be stopped, why even bother passing them?

Well, that's not true.

We've seen gas prominent allies over the past few weeks state in the media that the project is moving along apace.

It's cos air fully committed in spite of sanctions.

But just 24 hours after some of those headlines came out, the biggest certify rare for the pipeline D N v.

G L.

A.

Major, uh, technical provider that would be needed for this project to be completed left the project.

And this was followed by announcement last week that project construction would start in German waters on December 5th last Saturday.

But there's a little detail there.

This is only 2.6 kilometers of the pipeline, and it's at a shallow depth that's not even targeted by the N D A sanctions.

So with all of that, Russian vessels, including Fortuna and Academic Chair ski, which have been reported on, have headed back to a T least in terms of the chair ski to Kaliningrad in Russia.

So are you saying then that that's all propaganda, that it's not true that construction is restarting well, One of the biggest stories was that the charity, the economic Twersky would be the main pipe player in that vessel, never even made it to German waters.

It sat in the Polish exclusive economic zone over the weekend.

Well, a lot of media reported on this, and then it headed back to Russia just just yesterday.

Now, the Fortuna is making some motion this morning and the outside of the port of the smart Germany.

But it hasn't really started this thing Spy plane that was supposed to start several days ago.

Now, let me ask you about the U.

S.

Opposition to this project.

We know it dates back to the Obama administration.

Then Vice President Joe Biden.

He was vocal with his opposition.

He is now about to become president.

Congress stands with him.

Do you think all of this this monolith of opposition?

Is it going to be enough to ensure that this pipeline never goes online?

I think it is.

I mean, I think this project My my colleague Tom O Donnell spoke on Euronews this weekend and said the project was dead.

I think it's close to dead, to be honest, if if these past and they look like they will, um But, you know, let's let's just step back for a second.

Let's be thankful for the opportunity that the end of the Trump administration has provided to improve transatlantic ties, especially with Berlin.

I have no doubt that the Biden team will be committed on this front.

Both by man.

Congress have been spoken, have spoken out against trump spurious trade disputes and threats of pulling troops out of Germany in particular.

But this is separate.

This is about energy influence projection from authoritarian nations.

We look at this from a transatlantic security standpoint that Russia and China are using technology and large scale critical infrastructure to do things like elite capture.

We see Gerhard Schroeder working for this in Germany, we see a number of other nations working on, You know that this sort of front.

So we need to stop the strategic corruption?

Well, what what role does the change at the White House play here?

I mean, will it be easier or more difficult for German Chancellor Angela Merkel to tell a President Joe Biden?

No, I mean, you know, she's not running for re election next year, so she has nothing to lose here.

And you know, you and I have talked about this before.

She has tried to separate Nord Stream two business from geopolitics.

Well, Unfortunately, the Russians haven't haven't separated their state owned enterprise projects like North Stream from their own geopolitics.

When you and I last talked, it was in the wake of the navalny poisoning and the position of Berlin of the government.

Was Thio back off of this project?

Should Russia not come through and actually help on that?

Well, they certainly did.

But yet we're having this conversation just a few weeks later.

So I really think that it is possible that that Merkel will make this sort of pitch.

But I think there are bigger things that need to be fixed in the transatlantic relationship.

That will be easier, certainly under the bite administration.

We've got about a minute, minute, 15 this pipeline.

We know that it bypasses Ukraine.

Um, if you were to take Ukraine out of the equation here, um, European economies also are turning to renewable energies.

But if you put that together this pipeline, it really doesn't seem to be that needed.

It's not as threatening as it.

Maybe it would have seemed five or even 10 years ago.

Do you?

Do you agree with that?

I think that it's not needed because it's not aimed at bringing new gas to Germany, or points west.

Only 9.9 billion cubic meters of that 55 billion cubic meter project are built to do that.

So it's not about this energy venda transition to renewables that some project supporters are trying to say.

Uh, this is a massive hydrocarbon properly.

It's something that, uh, um volatile for the the environmental NGO has spoken out against at length, especially in the past few few weeks s.

So this is something where we see upstream in the Russian Federation.

European Space Agency satellites seeing methane plumes from the the upstream in the midstream pipelines that feed product looks like Nordstrom one and two.

So this is really not about, uh, you know, climate change addressing climate change.

In that respect, Benjamin Schmidt, Unfortunately, we're out of time.

Always good to talk with you.

And I think this this story will have some longer legs on it.

Then we thought originally come back and talk with us again.

Good seeing you.

Yes.

Sounds good.

Anytime.

Thanks so much print.

Well, the day is almost done.

The conversation continues online.

And remember, no matter what happens between now and then, tomorrow is another day.

We'll see you then.