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  • -Our next guest is a "New York Times" best-selling author

  • and research professor

  • who has a brand-new weekly podcast on Spotify

  • called "Dare to Lead."

  • Here is Brene Brown.

  • Yeah, Brene. It's so nice to see you.

  • Thank you so much for coming back...

  • -Thank you. -...to the show.

  • I appreciate this. I want to talk about this new podcast.

  • It's about leadership, called "Dare to Lead."

  • I don't know. I just feel like it's a good message for anyone,

  • because one of your messages in your book that I read earlier

  • is that every one of us is a leader in some way.

  • It's not just for people in charge.

  • Like, everyone --

  • Can you expand on that?

  • -Yeah. I mean, I think when we think "leader,"

  • we think, like, pinstripes and shoulder pads

  • and a "C" suite office,

  • and the truth is, I've been in those offices

  • and couldn't find a leader to save my life.

  • And I've been around everyday people

  • that would never identify as a leader

  • and been surrounded by them.

  • So I define a leader

  • as any person who holds themselves accountable

  • for finding the potential in people and processes

  • and has the courage, the guts to develop that potential.

  • And that's all of us. I mean, we're just --

  • I recently asked Jon Meacham, I said, "What would you say

  • to people who don't think they're leaders?"

  • And he said, "Then you don't understand democracy.

  • We all have to lead." -Wow.

  • -And so I just -- I loved that.

  • -Yeah. -I think we're all leaders.

  • -You've interviewed all these people and tried to find --

  • and you've studied leaders, and you try to find patterns.

  • What are a few patterns that you always see showing up

  • in good leaders?

  • -Yeah. This was the shock for me.

  • In fact, this is my 23rd year as a researcher,

  • and this is a 10-year study.

  • And it was the first study I'd ever done

  • where the answers across all of the research participants

  • was the same. So, what we asked was really straightforward.

  • From special forces military to creatives

  • to all over the world, NGOs, we asked,

  • "What's the future of leadership?

  • Who's going to be leading in 5 years, 10 years,

  • and who's going to be gone?"

  • And the answer was, "We need braver leaders."

  • And so when we drilled into, what does that mean?

  • I mean, I love the word "brave." I love the word "courage,"

  • but they're gauzy.

  • Like, what does that mean? -Yeah.

  • -It came down to four skill sets --

  • the ability to rumble with vulnerability.

  • You know, that means when things get uncertain and hard,

  • we don't tap out.

  • We don't tap out of hard conversations.

  • We don't tap out of feedback, giving it or receiving it.

  • -Mm-hmm. -Second thing is

  • that we really learn how to live into our values.

  • I mean, the most daring leaders we've talked to

  • are very clear not only about what their values are,

  • but also what the behaviors are that support those values.

  • Like, there are a lot of big, fun leadership words

  • like "integrity."

  • But, like, if I walk into another organization

  • and see an integrity, like, poster with an eagle,

  • like, what does that --

  • You know, it's like, "Caw!"

  • What does that mean? -I don't know what it means.

  • You were on Skymall, and you were bored,

  • and you go it's only 10 bucks. -[ Laughs ] Skymall.

  • No, Skymall.

  • And you don't know what it means.

  • So these leaders have operationalized it

  • into behaviors that they hold themselves accountable for.

  • The third thing is building trust,

  • talking explicitly about trust,

  • 'cause no trust, no teams, no good work.

  • And the last one is huge. And I learned this

  • from working with a lot of professional sports teams.

  • You've got to know how to reset

  • after failure, disappointment, and setbacks.

  • You got to learn how to get back up when you fall,

  • 'cause that's part of being brave.

  • -Today is Veterans Day,

  • and I know you've worked with a lot of military leaders.

  • You do a lot of great stuff for the military.

  • What have you learned from military specifically?

  • -You know, it's really --

  • You know, when you're a person who teaches vulnerability,

  • going in to work with special forces

  • or, you know, Air Force fighter pilots,

  • you're like, "Oh, man, this is going to be a hard sell."

  • But what's interesting is they probably taught me more

  • about the importance of being in uncertainty.

  • I think it's like, when you got to be all blustery at work,

  • it's harder -- -It's not going to work.

  • -Yeah. When your life's on the line,

  • you get the importance of emotion vulnerability.

  • -You know, you end every episode on your podcast

  • asking your guests

  • to name five songs that they can't live without,

  • which I think is tough.

  • And you ask what that playlist says about them, and I love it.

  • I think it's a great, great question.

  • So I thought maybe I'd turn the tables if you're up for it

  • and ask you.

  • -Okay. Well, I thought about this,

  • and these are not songs that I just love.

  • These are songs that I would be sad

  • if I couldn't find them when I needed them.

  • -Wow.

  • -Yeah. And so they're real for me.

  • So, "If I Needed You," Townes Van Zandt.

  • "Amazing Grace," Willie Nelson.

  • "Before the Last Teardrop Falls," Freddy Fender.

  • -What? [ Laughs ]

  • -Yes, for sure.

  • -I love Freddy Fender. -Yeah.

  • Bonnie Raitt and John Prine singing "Angel from Montgomery."

  • And Carol Woods and Timothy Mitchum's cover of "Let It Be."

  • I have to have those songs.

  • -Wow. -When the going get's tough,

  • those songs get going.

  • -I really appreciate you being back on the show.

  • Thank you so much.

  • -Thank you. -Please be well.

  • Brene Brown. New episodes of "Dare to Lead" --

  • "Dare to Lead" are released every Monday on Spotify.

-Our next guest is a "New York Times" best-selling author

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Brené Brown Reveals Which Four Skill Sets Make the Best Leaders

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    林宜悉 posted on 2020/11/13
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