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  • - You don't have to throw someone's life away

  • because they made a bad choice at one point

  • in their life and that people can be rehabilitated.

  • So for me, I always say if someone does the crime,

  • they should do time, but what is fair time?

  • - I'm super excited to be here, talking to the great

  • Kim Kardashian about "The Justice Project"

  • which is this unbelievable documentary

  • that she's put so much blood, sweat, and tears into.

  • We are gonna be talking about the documentary

  • but not just the documentary, the fact that Kim Kardashian

  • has become such a powerful advocate for criminal justice,

  • why, what does her family think about it,

  • how does she feel about it,

  • how does she choose who to help?

  • There's so many questions, but first, let me just say,

  • welcome to Kim Kardashian.

  • How you doing?

  • - Hi, I'm good.

  • It honestly feels good to get up and put on something else

  • but pajamas, put on some makeup.

  • I miss work, you know.

  • It does feel good to get up.

  • I had to sneak out and I'm in my mom's house.

  • We're all not seeing each other really,

  • so I had to go in her back door

  • and come in this room.

  • I had to sneak away from my kids to be honest.

  • So I'm loving this break [laughs].

  • - I know.

  • Well, it is important that we should probably just

  • address that right at the very top.

  • We're in this age of the virus, this age of the pandemic,

  • the age of the quarantine.

  • What concerns do you have for people behind bars

  • in the age of the pandemic?

  • - Well, first of all, I wanna thank the governors

  • who have been releasing some people that are incarcerated

  • which is amazing and I really commend them.

  • I sent a tweet out to Governor Newsom

  • thanking him for that.

  • I think that it's really tough for visits to be canceled

  • because of this and I understand that the logic behind it,

  • but to not replace it with phone calls,

  • with some kind of other interaction, I think is cruel

  • and there has to be some kinda change with that.

  • That really breaks my heart that these people

  • just have to now not have any connection with anybody

  • when they really depend on that.

  • - Absolutely and I know you're a good friend

  • of Jessica Jackson and Erin Haney

  • who are in the documentary which we're gonna get to,

  • have put out from the Reform Alliance,

  • this whole safer plan to try to get some people out.

  • There are people who could come out safely,

  • who are well and who are not a threat to anybody.

  • Some of the governors have been asked

  • by the National Governors Association

  • and others, Reform Alliance and others,

  • to have fewer people going in.

  • If some petty stuff, don't put them in.

  • If they can come out safely and be on home confinement,

  • let them come out and then let's rush in medical supplies

  • and masks and that kinda stuff.

  • So there's a big effort to try to help people behind bars

  • and I think a lot of the consciousness that people

  • have about what's going on in the prisons has a lot to do

  • with the work that you've been doing

  • and many, many others.

  • I noticed at the top of the documentary you pointed out

  • that you are new to this issue and you're still learning

  • about criminal justice.

  • Why was it so important for you to say that at the top,

  • that you are a new comer to this cause?

  • - Because I am and I think sometimes the way

  • the media can spin something or make it seem

  • like I am doing this all on my own and I'm not

  • and I've always been really vocal

  • that's it a team of people.

  • As soon as I read a letter or hear a case,

  • I'll send it to Jessica and Erin,

  • who you introduced me to,

  • and they are like my girl squad team of attorneys

  • that we talk about every, we'll be up online

  • all night long texting each other

  • about specific cases about exactly what's going on,

  • what's going on with coronavirus in prisons.

  • Every last issue, we talk about,

  • and so I think one of the reasons I really wanted

  • to do this documentary is because I feel like it shows,

  • it's my journey of what I've learned

  • and I've never been shy to say that I started off

  • probably judgmental and feeling like okay, well,

  • Alice Johnson, nonviolent drug offender, I can handle that.

  • As long as there was no violence involved,

  • I can support that, until I started to educate myself

  • and visit prisons and go and speak to people

  • that are incarcerated and understand their backstory.

  • It's something that I never took the time

  • to even think about before.

  • I met with so many people that when they were a teenager,

  • they committed horrific crimes,

  • but now in their 30s, 40s, they are a completely different,

  • rehabilitated person and even though they did that

  • and made that choice and mistake to do something

  • really awful, doesn't mean they are that mistake

  • and doesn't mean that they haven't rehabilitated

  • and don't deserve a second chance at life.

  • - When you're 16 years old,

  • your brain isn't even really formed yet [laughs].

  • You can do something, you can have a bad weekend

  • or a bad summer and then get your act together

  • and then never have a problem again in life

  • if you grow up in the suburbs, if you have money.

  • But some people wind up in real trouble.

  • Why is it so important to you to humanize people

  • who have made really, really serious mistakes?

  • - I wanna humanize as many people as possible,

  • but not just in like a low level drug offense case.

  • I wanted it to be in a sex trafficking case,

  • in every situation that you could imagine

  • and really feel empathy.

  • I just want people to feel empathy

  • and so that they can feel that truly in their hearts,

  • if they were to get to know people

  • and hear their stories, that they would definitely feel safe

  • with these people reentering back into our society.

  • - And I think that's the great thing

  • about this documentary is, the people who you're showing,

  • the people who somebody who actually killed a man,

  • you say to yourself, somebody killed a man?

  • I don't want that person ever to come back out.

  • And then you understand the circumstances

  • of her being trafficked and abused

  • and all these different things.

  • You start to reveal and you start to think

  • to yourself, okay, I've not got a different perspective.

  • I wanna ask you about the importance of context

  • and that sort of stuff, but before I do that,

  • I still think a lot of people are just trying to get

  • their minds wrapped around how could Kim Kardashian,

  • megastar, superstar, be walking around in prisons

  • and jails and all this sorta stuff?

  • People first thought it was a publicity stunt,

  • now it's a couple years later,

  • it's obviously not, you could get publicity doing whatever

  • you want to, this is clearly a passion.

  • But what would your dad think about this?

  • I mean your dad was a lawyer, I mean what would your father

  • think about what you're doing,

  • this turn your life has taken?

  • - I think he would love it.

  • We have had the conversation

  • though about going to law school, him and I.

  • When I was in college and I was trying to think

  • of what my major would be,

  • I thought, okay, I can major in political science

  • and I can really do this and then he was like, listen,

  • you've seen the hard work that it puts in.

  • I don't doubt that you can do this,

  • but it's a really stressful life to be an attorney,

  • do you really wanna be an attorney

  • and then I ended up majoring in communications instead

  • and so we talked about a lot.

  • Cause he always saw me snooping in his stuff

  • and looking through all of his evidence books

  • and in the summer times when all my friends

  • were hanging out and he was just like, go have fun.

  • You can always do this later and honestly,

  • sometimes it is so tough and I have these assignments

  • that I feel like I have to succeed in

  • and I get really overwhelmed and I feel

  • like quitting sometimes, but I know