because they made a bad choice at one point

in their life and that people can be rehabilitated.

So for me, I always say if someone does the crime,

they should do time, but what is fair time?

- I'm super excited to be here, talking to the great

Kim Kardashian about "The Justice Project"

which is this unbelievable documentary

that she's put so much blood, sweat, and tears into.

We are gonna be talking about the documentary

but not just the documentary, the fact that Kim Kardashian

has become such a powerful advocate for criminal justice,

why, what does her family think about it,

how does she feel about it,

how does she choose who to help?

There's so many questions, but first, let me just say,

welcome to Kim Kardashian.

How you doing?

- Hi, I'm good.

It honestly feels good to get up and put on something else

but pajamas, put on some makeup.

I miss work, you know.

It does feel good to get up.

I had to sneak out and I'm in my mom's house.

We're all not seeing each other really,

so I had to go in her back door

and come in this room.

I had to sneak away from my kids to be honest.

So I'm loving this break [laughs].

- I know.

Well, it is important that we should probably just

address that right at the very top.

We're in this age of the virus, this age of the pandemic,

the age of the quarantine.

What concerns do you have for people behind bars

in the age of the pandemic?

- Well, first of all, I wanna thank the governors

who have been releasing some people that are incarcerated

which is amazing and I really commend them.

I sent a tweet out to Governor Newsom

thanking him for that.

I think that it's really tough for visits to be canceled

because of this and I understand that the logic behind it,

but to not replace it with phone calls,

with some kind of other interaction, I think is cruel

and there has to be some kinda change with that.

That really breaks my heart that these people

just have to now not have any connection with anybody

when they really depend on that.

- Absolutely and I know you're a good friend

of Jessica Jackson and Erin Haney

who are in the documentary which we're gonna get to,

have put out from the Reform Alliance,

this whole safer plan to try to get some people out.

There are people who could come out safely,

who are well and who are not a threat to anybody.

Some of the governors have been asked

by the National Governors Association

and others, Reform Alliance and others,

to have fewer people going in.

If some petty stuff, don't put them in.

If they can come out safely and be on home confinement,

let them come out and then let's rush in medical supplies

and masks and that kinda stuff.

So there's a big effort to try to help people behind bars

and I think a lot of the consciousness that people

have about what's going on in the prisons has a lot to do

with the work that you've been doing

and many, many others.

I noticed at the top of the documentary you pointed out

that you are new to this issue and you're still learning

about criminal justice.

Why was it so important for you to say that at the top,

that you are a new comer to this cause?

- Because I am and I think sometimes the way

the media can spin something or make it seem

like I am doing this all on my own and I'm not

and I've always been really vocal

that's it a team of people.

As soon as I read a letter or hear a case,

I'll send it to Jessica and Erin,

who you introduced me to,

and they are like my girl squad team of attorneys

that we talk about every, we'll be up online

all night long texting each other

about specific cases about exactly what's going on,

what's going on with coronavirus in prisons.

Every last issue, we talk about,

and so I think one of the reasons I really wanted

to do this documentary is because I feel like it shows,

it's my journey of what I've learned

and I've never been shy to say that I started off

probably judgmental and feeling like okay, well,

Alice Johnson, nonviolent drug offender, I can handle that.

As long as there was no violence involved,

I can support that, until I started to educate myself

and visit prisons and go and speak to people

that are incarcerated and understand their backstory.

It's something that I never took the time

to even think about before.

I met with so many people that when they were a teenager,

they committed horrific crimes,

but now in their 30s, 40s, they are a completely different,

rehabilitated person and even though they did that

and made that choice and mistake to do something

really awful, doesn't mean they are that mistake

and doesn't mean that they haven't rehabilitated

and don't deserve a second chance at life.

- When you're 16 years old,

your brain isn't even really formed yet [laughs].

You can do something, you can have a bad weekend

or a bad summer and then get your act together

and then never have a problem again in life

if you grow up in the suburbs, if you have money.

But some people wind up in real trouble.

Why is it so important to you to humanize people

who have made really, really serious mistakes?

- I wanna humanize as many people as possible,

but not just in like a low level drug offense case.

I wanted it to be in a sex trafficking case,

in every situation that you could imagine

and really feel empathy.

I just want people to feel empathy

and so that they can feel that truly in their hearts,

if they were to get to know people

and hear their stories, that they would definitely feel safe

with these people reentering back into our society.

- And I think that's the great thing

about this documentary is, the people who you're showing,

the people who somebody who actually killed a man,

you say to yourself, somebody killed a man?

I don't want that person ever to come back out.

And then you understand the circumstances

of her being trafficked and abused

and all these different things.

You start to reveal and you start to think

to yourself, okay, I've not got a different perspective.

I wanna ask you about the importance of context

and that sort of stuff, but before I do that,

I still think a lot of people are just trying to get

their minds wrapped around how could Kim Kardashian,

megastar, superstar, be walking around in prisons

and jails and all this sorta stuff?

People first thought it was a publicity stunt,

now it's a couple years later,

it's obviously not, you could get publicity doing whatever

you want to, this is clearly a passion.

But what would your dad think about this?

I mean your dad was a lawyer, I mean what would your father

think about what you're doing,

this turn your life has taken?

- I think he would love it.

We have had the conversation

though about going to law school, him and I.

When I was in college and I was trying to think

of what my major would be,

I thought, okay, I can major in political science

and I can really do this and then he was like, listen,

you've seen the hard work that it puts in.

I don't doubt that you can do this,

but it's a really stressful life to be an attorney,

do you really wanna be an attorney

and then I ended up majoring in communications instead

and so we talked about a lot.

Cause he always saw me snooping in his stuff

and looking through all of his evidence books

and in the summer times when all my friends

were hanging out and he was just like, go have fun.

You can always do this later and honestly,

sometimes it is so tough and I have these assignments

that I feel like I have to succeed in

and I get really overwhelmed and I feel

like quitting sometimes, but I know

that he's right there pushing me to just be like,

you can do this, and so I always take a minute,

I stop and I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna finish my work

the next day, I need a breather.

It's like too overwhelming for me and then I get up

super energized and get back at it

and I know that's him pushing me to do that.

- You know, it's amazing.

I think for the younger generation, you're the most famous

Kardashian, they heard of you.

But my generation, it was your dad [laughs]

that was the big guy.

You're kinda like his kid coming up from our point of view

and so, we know that you got that legal beagle in your blood

because he was such an amazing attorney

and such a big deal culturally as well as legally.

But what about your kids?

You just said you're a refugee right now

in your mom's house from your kids.

You got little bitty kids.

What do they think about what you're doing?

How do you explain to them that mommy

is going into prisons to help people?

Does that even come up?

- It does!

And so, she traveled with us to Houston

when I went to go visit Rodney Reed

and she was with me but she had to stay in the car

while I went inside and I had to explain to her,

we're at a prison and we're gonna be going in

and I'm going, and she was like, well mommy,

I know you're just going to help people.

Like, I know you're not going to jail.

So she really understands, I think cause she's around

a lot when I'm studying with Jessica and Erin

and so she'll just hear all the conversation.

She'll hear me studying my flash cards.

She'll hear me talk to myself and call things out

and say definitions and stuff like that or she'll hear

me on calls when I'm dealing with different legal teams

and stuff like that.

So she's really smart, she's really aware of what's going on

and if anything, that pushes me more because I really

was the type where I didn't love school.

I didn't love college,

and high school was so much fun but then college,

it just wasn't my thing, so to know that now

that I'm almost 40 and I love it and I love going to school.

I love having that as a good example for my kids too

that no matter age, if you find something

that you're passionate about, you can absolutely go for it

and it's a really personal goal of mine.

- So one time you were talking about you got your backpack

with your books and you kids have their backpack

with their books [laughs] like doing the mommy and me

on the studying stuff,

which I think is really, really awesome.

And I think it's just so important for people

to see and hear that this is not just something

you show up for for the press conferences,

this is a daily part of your life,

learning how to become a lawyer

and dealing with all these cases.

How do you decide, I mean, when the letters come,

when you see something in the news?