We Answer Your Questions About Working Professionally in an Orchestra

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So, we recently made an announcement
asking you guys to ask us
any questions you might have about
life as a professional orchestral musician.
It's been a while, actually. Back in the days.
Days where we used to sightread...
I mean, uh...
Practice all my parts. Haha, what?
Rehearse and play in orchestras
with great conductors and soloists
and all the other great musicians.
We will do our very best to answer
as honestly as we can.
- All right! - Here we go.
First question, from bella.
Yeah.
I'd say so.
I think musically,
you get to taste a lot of different genres very quickly.
- 'Cause you're always playing new works every week. - Yes.
Especially with working with all the conductors
- that come in every week. - Yeah, I was gonna say,
it depends a lot on the conductor.
The second thing I would say,
it really helps you develop ensemble skills.
Especially in professional orchestras,
there's very little tolerance of playing out of time.
- Oh, yeah! - You know like, school orchestras?
- Oh, yeah, everyone's... Yeah, yeah. - People are kind of still like, out of time.
- The conductor's just like, "Ah, whatever." - Yeah.
If you're out of time in a professional orchestra,
- and it's a good professional orchestra, - Ohh!
- everyone knows. - Everyone knows if it's you.
And then if you play wrong notes, out of tune,
- and stuff, they will notice you. - Yeah.
I would say, when I first joined an orchestra,
- it really pushed me into it. - Oh, yeah.
It's all coming back to me now.
Alright. So, if everyone goes...
And you're the only one that goes...
You stick out. 'Cause you're just...
holding your note value a little bit too long.
And you ruin the whole sound of the section.
Next one!
I can only speak for myself.
I was a casual.
And I did, I think, one or two years—
I actually can't remember.
One or two years of contract,
where I was basically employed for the full year,
but as a "casual." Right?
Usually, it's about 40 hours
- a week, for us. - A week? Yeah.
From what I remember, there was like,
one and a half months.
- I think it's... - Actually, it may be even less.
- It was like, around like, January, right? - Yeah.
But usually, the typical week was like,
you start rehearsals Wednesday.
And you perform Saturday or Sunday.
- Mhmm. - So you rehearse throughout the week.
- And Monday and Tuesday are off. Yep! - Yep. Yep!
Next one!
I mean, now zero.
(Ooh!)
- I mean, it's kind of true. - Yeah.
Even our tour.
- Concert tour had to get canceled. - I know!
- Can't see you guys! - Wanted to see you guys, right?
Hopefully when things clear up,
when everyone behaves,
we will be back on the concert stage.
Okay. Usually like two, three concerts a week.
Actually, sometimes one as well.
Actually, you know what,
one person wouldn't always be doing three.
It would be too much.
They'll be rotating people out.
So like, you can get the day off on this one.
Except for ballet.
- But we— You didn't have that many ballet concerts. - But I've done it before.
- Like, three... - Ballet is like, ten concerts in one day.
I remember it was like,
Tuesday, Thursday, Friday,
and then Saturday matinee and like...
- Two concerts on Saturday. - Yeah.
And then maybe Sunday,
- one in the afternoon. - Yeah...
It was the double concert on the Saturdays
- that really got me. - Oh, that kills you! You're just like...
You do the whole throughout ballet,
and you come back at like, 7:30pm.
And you have round two.
And then if you're lucky,
you're like, sitting in the outside of the pit,
- you can kind of glimpse what's happening up there. - And you just see their head.
Like, half their body like, moving.
Next question.
- Not for us. - No. No for us.
I know some do, though.
And I think it's not a bad idea,
- to be honest. - I think it's a very good idea,
because it'll keep everyone sharp.
And PRACTICING!
My personal opinion is, uh...
Even if the every year audition is not to like,
if you don't pass your second audition,
- you get fired. I think that's a bit... - Yeah, that's a bit harsh.
But I do think it's nice to have something
to make sure the players are
still practicing in their own time.
- Yeah. Stagnant. Yeah. - And not kind of just, getting stagnant and complacent.
I feel like a lot of...
...orchestral players will hate me
- for saying that though. - I know.
Oh, yeah!!
Oh, my god!
There's SO much pressure for the first time!
I remember the first time playing with Sydney Symphony.
It was Mahler 7.
Ooof!
It was messed up!
Mine was Mahler 6!
Oh, that's too much.
Yeah. I was playing like this.
- Like just really, really safely. You don't wanna stick out. - Yeah, yeah!
It's a lot of pressure because,
- a) You don't have the experience. - Yeah.
b) You don't know. You're like, you're...
worried about things could go wrong.
- Yeah. - And because you're worried,
- things will more likely go wrong. - Yeah.
But it's one of those things where after a few times,
- you just get used to it. - Yeah.
- You mess up one or two times. - Yeah, you will mess up.
You realize like, it's not the end of the world.
- Hopefully, your colleagues are supportive about it. - Yeah.
And then, yeah.
Well generally they are more, they're quite supportive.
- If you're new. Yeah. - Yeah.
- Yes, they are mandatory. - Dude, yeah.
- You need... You need rehearsals! - You can't just not go to rehearsals.
'Cause orchestra doesn't
pre-record the audio and dub on top.
'Cause we actually practice and do the music properly!
Ah, I would say like, four a week?
Yeah. So, four rehearsals.
One general rehearsal, and then one or two concerts.
- Yeah, usually it's like that. - Yeah.
Six or seven calls. Sometimes nine.
But nine would just mean it's like a cinematic piece,
- Harry Potter or something like that. Yeah. - Yeah, it also depends on the repertoire, you know?
No, the competition didn't stop that for me.
I was just very very very very very shy.
Still am very very very very shy.
I just didn't want friends.
I don't think there's that much competition.
- 'Cause you're already kinda in it. - Yeah.
Unless you're like, on trial with another person.
But even then, from what we've seen,
I don't think people really behave that way.
- Nah. Not in orchestra. - It's not like those, it's not like those
crazy Juilliard stories.
Everyone's kinda like,
friendly to each other and we help support each other.
Keep in mind though, this is Australia.
- Yeah, that's true. Australians are pretty chill. - We're pretty chill. Yeah.
- Oh, you get - - Oh!
- Don't be late. - You're never late.
If anything, you rock up like one hour early.
Or 45, 30 minutes earlier.
There were a few times where I was
stuck in traffic before a concert,
and I would make it there like,
- 4 minutes before, 5 minutes before. - Oho!
- That's cutting it close. - And that was
some of the most stressful moments in my life.
Don't. You don't want to play that game.
- Rock up before every rehearsal 30 minutes early. - I think so.
And if it's a concert,
- get there like an hour earlier. - Yeah.
They did say, "What's the consequence?"
I think if you're late too much,
- you get fired. - Yeah.
- Or they'll put you, they put you, - I don't know.
I think they put you on like, probation.
- You're on watch. - Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
- And people know, you just don't want to... - Yeah.
If it's soloists,
the orchestras kinda rehearse separately.
- And then do like, one or two rehearsals - Yeah.
with everyone again with the soloist.
Generally, I feel all orchestra members are onstage.
Ah right, yeah. Like, you don't really have sectionals.
- Sometimes. - You don't have, yeah. Rarely.
If it's a sectional, there's like, serious stuff.
Actually, one thing.
Good conductors know how to
schedule their rehearsals, so if there's any movements
- where like, brass has tacet, - Yeah yeah yeah.
they do that at the beginning or end. So,
- Yeah, it's like everyone can go. Yeah, yeah. - brass doesn't have to sit around. You know?
Yeah, I mean...
I...
Sometimes it does, if you play...
- Let's say, ballet for like, ten times in a row. - Yeah.
To be honest, like, first time playing it like, yeah.
But by the ninth, tenth concert, you can imagine
there's just no more passion in it anymore.
There are certain weeks when the orchestra cares,
and people make the effort
- and we make good music. - Oh!
And the other weeks, where you can tell...
...they're just kind of going through the motions.
And personally, I try to care,
because my mind says, "I'm here.
- I might as well try to further myself as a musician, - That's true.
- make the most out of it." - Mhmm.
But then other times, um...
- If it's like a Harry Potter concert, - Oh.
- and then some people just stop caring. - Yeah.
Uhhh...
They do have more responsibility.
I know the first violin section,
we look at the concertmaster.
- Yeah! We typically do, - Yeah.
we don't look at the conductor as much.
The other principal second violin, violists,
cellos, double basses
- kinda look at the concertmaster as well. - Yes.
I believe the principal winds
- also look at the concertmaster. - They do, they do.
- Yeah. Yeah. - So it's like a second point of contact.
'Cause there are some freak accidents where
- conductors just misses it, or something. - Yeah.
- And then concertmasters do take charge sometimes. - Yeah.
Oh, there's so many stories.
- We never did that many recordings, you know, actually. - Ahh... I didn't do that many, yeah.
I'd imagine they're on a tight timeline as well.
- 'Cause it's very expensive. - Yeah.
I would imagine they would just do...
Two or three run-throughs, and patch it up.
- 'Cause they can't afford it. It's too much. - Yeah.
It's not like you're one singer.
You're a hundred musicians, you gotta pay for them.
- You just gotta get it done. - Yeah.
And hope no one screws up.
I remember this recording we did, in...
It was youth orchestra.
It was like, a new composer.
- Like a student composer's work. - Yeah.
- It was just modern music. - Yeah yeah.
So it just kinda sounded a bit funny.
- And then I made eye contact with Oliver, the cellist. - Yeah.
And we just lost it. We're like...
And it's like, a recording.
- You don't want to mess up the recording, right? - Ohhh, that's the worst!
And we were just like..
That's so bad!
Oh, that would be so much pressure!
Ooh!
In orchestra.
'Cause outside of orchestra...
- Oh, that's a different story. - It's different.
Um...
Brett.
Yeah. Eddy.
Everyone's a great musician. Next.
Oh, huge difference!
Oh, dude.
Nah, once you go pro, you can't go back.
- Your standard of professionality, efficiency. - Yeah.
- And just music, in general. - Yes.
All the intonation, quality, timbre.
Just, playing together.
- It's on a different level. - Yes.
Youth orchestras get away with a lot sloppier playing.
And also, you know in youth orchestra,
- you do mess around, with your... - Yeah.
- ...friends. - Oh also, the rehearsals are a lot more...
- efficient. - Oh efficient, yeah.
Youth orchestra they slug you away,
you're just like, every day you're like, "AHH!"
- In professional orchestras, um... - Dude, you have to. You got like, one, two rehearsals.
- And you... gotta know everything. - Yeah.
Yeah! Like, two rehearsals versus like, a whole
three-month rehearsal period.
Pro orchestras rehearse like,
usually the first rehearsal is like,
you go through all the,
you know where the things you got to look out for.
Second rehearsal should be good.
Theoretically, you should come into the first rehearsal
knowing how to play every note.
Obviously...
Does it happen all the time? Uh, questionable.
- But, it's not like a youth orchestra, - Every time.
where people are like,
- messing up in the first rehearsal, right? - Yeah, yeah.
And I think the biggest one in my mind, for rehearsals,
is in a pro orchestra,
when a concertmaster makes a bowing change,
everyone gets it.
- Yes! Yeah! - You're always looking out for the front.
- If someone writes something in, - Yeah, yeah yeah.
- what they write, you make the change. - Yeah yeah yeah. Everyone's changing.
Concertmaster goes bang, it goes back.
- Yeah. - Whereas youth orchestra, it's like,
"Stop! Hey guys, let's make this downbow
- in bar 65 into upbow." It takes ages. - Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
But hey, it takes practice!
I can only speak for my orchestra,
but in my orchestra,
the percussionists get paid the same as violinists,
I believe.
So if you do the maths of how many notes played,
percussionists get paid a lot higher pay rate per note value.
- A hundred dollars per note. - Dude, yeah.
Violin is like,
one cent.
Nah, just kidding. I mean...
I think it depends on the orchestra.
Typically, the concertmasters
and the principal players get paid more.
- Yes. - 'Cause they have more responsibility.
I know some orchestras have like a, kind of,
the longer you're in the orchestra, you get paid more.
- Like the seniority thing. - Yeah.
But I'm not too sure how it works around the world,
to be honest.
- Yes! - Oh, god, yeah.
Yes!
Trauma.
Don't do it. Never did it again.
Practice your part!
Actually, well I haven't been called out.
- You know what I'd been done? - What?
They made me lead.
SSO.
- Dene Olding. - Sitting in Dene Olding's chair?
- Yeah. - Why?!
It's 'cause he wanted to go back in the section,
hear what it's like.
- He's like - - OHHH!! You got pranked!
I freaked out. It was like,
- a Bruckner symphony. - Yeah.
And Dene was like, "Oh, Brett!
Would you like to go to—?" I was like...
Everyone's like, "Yeah Brett!" I was like...
That was me, except they put me on second.
- So I was next to Warwick. - Oh, yeah. Ahh, okay.
Except I messed up,
'cause I was sightreading.
And then the conductor stopped and goes,
"Why is there wrong bowings?"
And then Warwick had to talk me out of it.
And I was like, I was such a... shame.
Shame!
Shame!
Shaaame!
Shame!
But! I nailed the concert.
'Cause I went home after that,
- and you bet I practiced that. - Yeah, you would pract—
- You'd be like, "I'm not letting that happen again." Yeah. - I practiced so hard. Yeah.
- Oh! Dutoit! - Didn't you have that crazy conductor?
Yeah!
Charles Dutoit. He's a...
...great conductor.
And his ears are like, amazing.
He knows what he wants.
- Yeah. - And he just grilled the wind section.
He's like, "Do you see here? It's piano!
Why are you playing like that?!"
And then he'd do this, on his stand. Like...
- "It's not in tune! One more time." - Ohh...
"You! Timbre! Listen!"
And the string section was just like,
"Oh, I hope it's not us next."
And I was like, frantically like,
you know when you're practicing your part silently?
I feel like it's like,
they gotta be very good
- to be able to get away with roasting us. - Yes.
Because if you're just a nobody conductor
and you start roasting, the musicians just lose respect.
- Exactly. And Dutoit actually got results. - Yeah.
- There's like, a lever that you can twist. - Yeah, you just...
You just go...
- I'm guessing he means like, in terms of positions. - Chair positions.
Professional orchestra's like, you audition for concertmaster.
- Concertmaster's just gonna be concertmaster. - Yeah.
And there's positions like associate concertmaster,
you're always gonna be next to the concertmaster.
And then some have like, the principal as well,
- which is number three. - Yeah.
- Like, first principal and associate principal. - Yeah.
So they're in the first two desks.
And the rest is just tutti.
And most people just rotate.
Then sometimes, tutti sits in the first row or second row,
depending on the concert.
leeyingchian! Ooh, getting to the goss!
Yeah, unfortunately. You know.
We were kinda still like,
young and new, so we weren't really like, in it.
I wasn't really a part of it.
- But yeah, there are little factions - It does happen.
- that have formed within the orchestra. - Yeah, it's...
And then not just the orchestra too.
There's the orchestra versus the admin.
- Ohh, it's always like that. Yeah. - 'Cause you have the marketing, and the sales,
and accountants.
Yeah, I was not good with work politics, hey.
I didn't understand it.
- I don't want to get involved. - Yeah.
- I'm just here to play violin. Leave me alone. - Yeah. Yeah.
Unfortunately, it happens. But hey, guys.
I think at the end of the day, we're here to create music.
- Yeah. - And on that note,
we hope these questions are helpful
for anyone interested in working professionally.
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