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  • Hey, it's Marie Forleo, and you are watching MarieTV.

  • The place to be to create a business and life you love.

  • If you've ever taken a look at our criminal justice system and thought to yourself, "There

  • must be a better way," this episode is a must watch.

  • Judge Victoria Pratt has gained international acclaim for her commitment to reforming the

  • criminal justice system.

  • While presiding over Newark Community Solutions, she offers defendants in minor criminal cases

  • a chance to avoid jail by obeying specific rules of behavior, including: community service,

  • counseling and introspective essays.

  • A nationally recognized expert in procedural justice and alternative sentencing, Judge

  • Pratt has appeared on MSNBC, PBS and NPR among others.

  • She is licensed to practice law in New Jersey and New York, and is admitted to the US Supreme

  • Court.

  • Judge Pratt thank you so much for making the time for being here.

  • As I was telling you off camera, when I saw a clip of your talk, I was like "Who is this

  • brilliant woman?

  • We need to have her on the show.

  • We need to have this conversation."

  • So thank you for making the time.

  • Thank you so much for having me on.

  • You know, the judge doesn't usually get invited to parties, so.

  • Before we talk about your incredible work with criminal justice reform, I wanna back.

  • We're both from Jersey.

  • You grew up in the suburb of Newark, the daughter of a Dominican beautician and an African American

  • garbage man.

  • So as young as nine, you found yourself helping your parents and their friends navigate government

  • systems, like the DMV.

  • Talk to us about how that experience laid the groundwork for your future.

  • So when you're the English speaking child, first generation of a Spanish or a foreign

  • speaking language person, you become that person, right, even as a child, that is responsible

  • for helping people fill out forms, getting information to the government, and understanding

  • and navigating systems.

  • And so at that age, you end up having to learn very quickly, usually as you show up to the

  • place.

  • And so it began to teach me, one, my responsibility to others, who really couldn't navigate systems,

  • but how complicated systems were, and they didn't need to be.

  • And how we could actually expect ... how could you expect a citizen ... just because

  • they don't speak the language, doesn't mean that they're not entitled to the full rights

  • of citizenship ... to use these systems.

  • And so it became very frustrating to me.

  • It would be very easy just to have an English and Spanish speaking sign, if that's the population

  • that you serve.

  • They're both tax paying citizens.

  • And also, how employees treated people when they came to these places, that they were

  • required to come to.

  • So that really began to lay the groundwork for me, insisting that people understood things

  • and kind of makingbreaking complex theories and situations into very tangible, understandable

  • situations as well.

  • So there's a lot of folks in our audience, who have big dreams, big dreams of what they

  • wanna do with their careers, what they wanna do with their education, what they might wanna

  • do with their businesses and their families.

  • And those dreams always don't come to fruition first time out the gate.

  • I know after undergraduate, you had a dream to go to law school.

  • But that didn't quite work out the first time.

  • Tell us about that, and also why law?

  • So I've always wanted to change the world.

  • I never believed that I couldn't.

  • I mean there were things that would come up.

  • I'm like, "Oh, okay.

  • I'm just gonna figure out how I'm gonna change the world."

  • But I knew that I could use my gifts to impact the world.

  • And probably going into my junior year, I decided that I was going to be a literacy

  • teacher.

  • And I ended up taking this class at Rutgers Law School and thought, "Oh my God.

  • This is where I need to be."

  • Went back to school, declared my major, and starting preparing for the LSAT.

  • Took the LSAT, applied to law school and could not believe that I did not get into law school.

  • I literally stalked the dean at Rutgers.

  • That sounds like something I would do.

  • I went everywhere.

  • I was like, "Yeah.

  • I don't understand.

  • You clearly did not see what I had in my application."

  • And she was like, "You know what?

  • Go get some life experience, and then come back and talk to us."

  • And so I went to work at La Casa De Don Pedro, which is the largest Hispanic social service

  • center.

  • So what I wanted to do, was be of service, so I continued to do that.

  • I think that, that's a part of what happens to people.

  • They try one time.

  • It doesn't happen.

  • And the reality is, that all of your experiences are really preparing you for that thing that

  • you want.

  • And so I was teaching women who were on welfare.

  • They were going from welfare to work.

  • And I realized still, I'm not gonna be able to change the world one class at a time.

  • I really need to be able to go in there, impact policies, and look at the law, and even if

  • it's one case at a time.

  • And I decided that I'd do this and re-apply.

  • I was able to do that and get in.

  • I think my advice to people is that, get fixated, get obsessed with that thing that you know

  • is not right and that you could change, and change it, in spite of fear.

  • It's not doing these things and not being afraid, it's being afraid of them, feeling

  • the fear, and deciding that this thing is more important than the fear, you know.

  • The more things you try to change in the world, the higher you go, the larger and the greater

  • the dragons you have to slay.

  • Yes.

  • So, decide.

  • For me, it's thewhat if.”

  • I do not want to live with, what if I had done this?

  • Yes.

  • That is greater than any other fear I could have.

  • And so when I measure it against the thing that I need to do, it always beats it.

  • I'm always like, "Okay.

  • I'm gonna go get with the dragon right now."

  • Yes.

  • I love it.

  • So speaking of that ... now, you were an attorney for a while.

  • Tell me about the vision then, to become a judge.

  • So I went to work at the city of Newark as the council to the municipal council.

  • And I started to see these people come in.

  • Cory Booker had just become the mayor in the city.

  • I went to work for Mildred Crump, the council president at the time.

  • These people were coming in and they were becoming judges.

  • I thought, "Wow.

  • What an amazing opportunity to really impact people's lives."

  • Because most people will only see the justice system at the municipal level.

  • And to think that you could be speaking potential into the lives of people at the lowest level,

  • but just anyone who comes there, particularly young people, who like in New Jersey, at 18,

  • you're considered an adult.

  • You end up in a criminal court, because you've done something simple, and something kind

  • of stupid.

  • And right now, with the zero tolerance policies that we have in the schools, things that my

  • generation would get sent to the principal's office for, you now get sent to the police

  • officer, who's in the school.

  • And most of the schools have more security and police officers than they even have guidance

  • counselors.

  • You do something stupid.

  • Police officer actually files a complaint against you and you end up in municipal court

  • ... Wow.

  • for something that, again, a couple of years ago, you would have been sent to the

  • principal's office, and gotten detention or something for.

  • So we're beginning to criminalize our children, even at an earlier age.

  • What happens when you prevent a kid at 18, cause they're still a kid.

  • I know people are gonna be mad when they hear it.

  • No.

  • I was definitely still a kid.

  • At 18 ... I was still a kid at 18.

  • And then all of the collateral consequences that you now impose on this kid because they

  • did what?

  • I had one kid, who ... he jumped on the back of a police cruiser and took a selfie and

  • put it on Facebook.

  • Now, the police officer probably could have smacked him in the back of the head.

  • You know, his friends were egging him on to do it.

  • He got charged with being a disorderly person, and got sent to my court.

  • And this was a kid who was about to go to college.

  • Now, what happens in New Jersey, that disorderly person's offense has collateral consequences

  • with it, including his DNA that now has to go into the DNA bank.

  • Now, I don't know about you, I definitely want any government to have my DNA.

  • Absolutely not.

  • 100%.

  • So those are some, of the things that I really knew we could attack at the municipal court

  • level, even before I became a judge.

  • So then, that was the inspiration then.

  • What was it like when that day actually came, and you were sworn in?

  • Oh, it was the most beautiful thing that I've experienced.

  • And it was beautiful, not just because I was becoming a judge, but we packed our council

  • office, over 300 hundred people showed up.

  • But the people who showed up, were the gentleman who helped, who made me walk when I was eight

  • months old, a high school teacher, former employers.

  • But what was reallywhat really made me proud were the community people who had shown

  • up, who I had been working with.

  • I mean, one of the community people said to me, "Is your swearing in gonna be open?"

  • I said, "Yeah."

  • And she said, "Yeah, cause you know the streets love you."

  • I thought, what a compliment, because I was of service when I was an attorney.

  • I told you what we could do and what we couldn't do, but that I was a part of this community,

  • and now they were like, "Wow.

  • This judge is gonna be a judge who understands this community."

  • And to me, community is greater than where you live.

  • Rabbi Prince said ... he actually gave a speech right before the, I Have A Dream speech.

  • He said, that communityneighbor is more than your geographical location, but in fact,

  • it is a moral obligation.

  • For me, what we do is both our moral and our professional obligation to our communities.

  • And they're greater than your next door neighbor again.

  • So you've said that being a judge is like having a front row seat to a tragic reality

  • show, that folks often come before you, and they're handcuffed, and they're drug sick

  • and they're depressed and they're hungry, and often mentally ill.

  • Something you shared really struck me.

  • I'm quoting you.

  • "When I saw that their need for help was greater than my fear of appearing vulnerable on the

  • bench, I realized that, not only did I need to do something, but that in fact I could

  • do something."

  • So let's talk about procedural justice.

  • I'm just learning about this, because I've had such the pleasure of learning more about

  • your work.

  • But what is it, for everyone in the audience who isn't familiar, and why could it be so

  • transformative?

  • And is it so transformative?

  • Procedural justice is a concept that say, "If people perceive that they are treated

  • fairly and with dignity, and respect by the system, by the court, then not only does it

  • increase their compliance with court orders, it increases their compliance with the law.

  • And it also increases the public's trust in the system."

  • And so what it does is that, the public has to see the court as a legitimate authority

  • to impose rules and regulations.

  • People don't just follow the rules, because you say so.

  • They say so, because they see you as a legitimate authority, that has the right to tell them

  • what to, and not to do.

  • And so this idea of procedural justice, this idea that people come before you, and that

  • they perceive that you are treating them fairly, and with dignity and respect and that it transforms

  • their behavior, that it changes how they behave, because they are engaged with the court differently.

  • Yes, people ... Not only does it change how they behave, but they'll even be satisfied

  • with the disposition of their case, even when you rule against them.

  • Yes, people are ... Everybody wants to win.

  • Sure.

  • Everybody wants to win, but that they'll be satisfied, that their belief will like, "Well,

  • even though the judge got it wrong, they gave me an opportunity to speak, and they heard

  • my side of the facts, before they made a decision," as well.

  • So this idea of treating people who are in crisis ... when people come to court, they're

  • in crisis.

  • You get a speeding ticket, you're in crisis, you know?

  • And you're a person with means.

  • That they would come to court and they'd have all of these social ills, and that's one of

  • the issues.

  • You know, we are criminalizing social ills.

  • We're really sending them now, we're sending them to judges and saying, "Do something about

  • them.

  • I want this person to stop offending."

  • Well, what I have is a criminal justice approach that I'm now applying to social ills.

  • And it doesn't fix what's bringing them before the court, doesn't change it at all.

  • And so when I was serving as a judge and these people were coming before me and I was disposing

  • of their cases, and then they'd leave, I still hadn't helped them resolve the issue that

  • was bringing them before me.

  • So yes, it was this conveyor belt of justice.

  • The person who came before me who was a drug addict, they'd get 90 days for having possession

  • of drugs.

  • But what I knew was on the 91st day, they were still gonna be a drug addict, cause I

  • hadn't done anything in the first 90 days to impact, or change their behavior, but even

  • offering them assistance.

  • So that this idea of also being able to talk to them and to get them to talk to you, and

  • seeing them.

  • Yes.

  • And so that's what procedural justice ... so this idea of feeling uncomfortable ... Sometimes

  • judges feel really uncomfortable.

  • “I'm gonna ask this person questions about themselves, and maybe reveal something about

  • myself in the process.”

  • In my talk, I talk about the gentleman who was drug sick and he had his head down and

  • he was shaking on the table.

  • But I saw a human being who was going through something.

  • And I asked him – then I asked him about his son.

  • Why?

  • Because I knew his sonif he had a kid, I knew his kid was important to him.

  • Yes.

  • And that he looked at me, and was like, "Yeah, I've got a 32 year old son."

  • It blew his mind, he had no idea, why would the judge care?

  • Well, I know that if you care about something, that's going to work and help me get you closer

  • to changing your behavior.

  • In that instance, not only did this guy go get treatment, his son became his sponsor,

  • which also means that his son ended up having an addiction, but that now his son becomes

  • this person who helps him through this space.

  • I wasn't belittling him, but it was true.

  • A person – you can't worship two masters.

  • A person who has a drug addiction can't give themselves fully to their children, and so

  • while he's numbing the guilt from feeling that, well, now I'm going to give you some

  • assistance so one, we can deal with that issue, but then you can be restored to your family

  • as well.

  • So rather than having someone come before you and just putting them through the process,

  • what procedural justice really creates the space for is humanity.

  • For restoring humanity.

  • Restoring humanity, absolutely.

  • I love that.

  • There are so many stories, and I hope we'll get to more of them in this conversation,

  • but just asking someone, "Do you have children?

  • Is there someone else in your life that cares about you?"

  • When I read that the tears were streaming down his face because no one had taken the

  • time to even ask, or care.

  • Or care.

  • It's powerful.

  • So there are four key principles to procedural justice, and I want to go through this.

  • This is what I love that you said, "They're easy and free."

  • They're easy and free.

  • They're easy and free, and any court system could adopt these, should they have the interest

  • and the heart and the foresight and understanding for how transformative these principles can

  • be.

  • So let's start with the first principle, which is voice, and giving people the opportunity

  • to speak.

  • Let's talk about personal essays, and tell us what they are and why you assign them?

  • The idea that essays are actually cathartic, right?

  • And they give you an opportunity to hear what's going on in a person's mind and also in their

  • soul.

  • What is it that I need to know about you?”

  • And so the essay topics give them voice that they otherwise wouldn't have, especially in

  • a court that's really moving and that has a serious high volume caseload that you're

  • going through, and there may be people in the audience that you have to tend to as well.

  • So that they become more than just case 527.

  • And so I started giving essays because people I felt needed to tell me more, but then the

  • reality is it's not even just me knowing about their business, it's really them facing some

  • of the things that they're going through.

  • So the essay that says, "If I believed one positive thing about myself how would my life

  • be different?"

  • Really that's about themyou know what that essay does?

  • For two weeks before they come back to read it, they're thinking about positive things

  • about themselvesan exercise that they've never had.

  • Then they write about this thing.

  • But then it also, as I talk about giving you more information, we once had a young woman

  • come to court who I had as a part of ... she went to youth court, but as a part of her

  • criminal sentence ... she got picked up for having a knife in school and a part of her

  • sentence was go to youth court, but also read this essay in court.

  • She wrote, "I am so sorry I had this knife, I didn't intend to hurt anyone.

  • I'm just scared all the time.

  • I'm scared when I walk to school, I'm scared when I walk home from school.

  • I'm scared when I'm at home at night and I sleep with this knife under my pillow, and

  • I barricade myself in my room."

  • And I thought, "My God, we have failed this child."

  • We failed her because her community is unsafe, because the adults haven't made it a place

  • that's safe for her.

  • A day went by and I called her social worker and was like, "Oh my God, this child is barricading

  • herself in her room, what is going on?"

  • Well, we came to find out that her mother's boyfriend had been sexually molesting her.

  • She wrote it in this essay, in a space that she had gotten a criminal complaint and didn't

  • feel comfortable telling the police officer, "The reason I have this knife is because this

  • thing is happening to me."

  • And so this was a victim who showed up in court as a defendant.

  • And again, as I said, I sat there listening to her and I was like, "This is our fault."

  • We bring this child into court as a defendant and we haven't done what we were supposed

  • to do for them.

  • So this idea of giving a person an opportunity to speak, but also to reflect voices is really

  • significant, especially for folks who people don't see.

  • People don't notice the homeless person who's on the street.

  • We don't know what caused this person to have this situation.

  • In the city of Newark, you know, we have a large homeless population, really one caused

  • by New Jersey Transit is theor Penn Station, as it is in New York, is the largest unofficial

  • homeless station.

  • People go there, I mean, I've had people travel from Florida say, "Oh yeah Judge, I just took

  • the bus up from Florida and I live in this space," so giving them voice to help them

  • with all their own issues as well.

  • One of the second principles is neutrality, and also understanding the process.

  • I don't know if you want to go into neutrality, we can certainly do it.

  • I want to make sure that everyone in the audience understands the four principles, but yeah-

  • So neutrality is this idea that people have to perceive that the process is neutral, that

  • when they come to court they're going to be able to get justice because the judge is not

  • in cahoots with the officer.

  • It's literally almost said like that sometimes as if I've sent officers out to issue summons'

  • or issue complaints, it's a different branch of government, but when people come to court

  • they have to see that.

  • They have to see that the judge is a neutral arbiter.

  • Sometimes it gets cloudy if people come in and they think that the judge is joking around

  • with this person, with the officer, or the prosecutor more so than anyone else in the

  • courtroom.

  • There's going off the record and going into the back in chambers.

  • It's important that judges explain what's happening when we do that because sometimes

  • we get up, we go in the back, and we're in there with the prosecutor and the attorney

  • and the person is like, "I don't get to go in the back.

  • What's happening?

  • What are they talking about?"

  • And this idea that people don't feel like the process is neutral, and that's paramount

  • when you want people to trust the system.

  • "Why would I do what you tell me to do if I don't think that you're treating me fair

  • because you're in cahoots with the state or someone else?"

  • And then this process of understanding.

  • In the city of Newark, I think last year we translated 24 languages.

  • Now, you come to court, you don't get to decide whether you get a summons or an issue, some

  • people do, but this idea that when you come in you need to be able to understand what

  • the consequences are of your action, because sometimes the consequences are greater than

  • just getting a fine.

  • And there are immigration consequences if you're not a citizen.

  • Well, you're like, "I'm a resident," but there are certain low level offenses that get people

  • deported back to their country.

  • And so it's important that people understand the process.

  • You're talking to people and we're dealing with people who have mental health issues.

  • I've been in court and people are ... I'm talking to them and they're talking to the

  • voices, or they're hearing the voices, so they can't focus on me.

  • I have an obligation to make sure that they understand what might happen if they don't

  • get a public defender.

  • What happens when a person can't read?

  • When there's a literacy issue, and they're facing a consequence of magnitude, which means

  • you will be going to jail?

  • If it's a shoplifting case, a shoplifting case means you get 90 days – mandatory

  • 90 days in jail.

  • You just want to go home because you can't read the paperwork, you have a complaint,

  • you don't know what they said you did, and I don't slow down enough to find out that,

  • "Wow, this person just needs someone to help them fill out the public defender form."

  • So even though they're saying, "No, I don't want a public defender," they're really saying,

  • "I can't read this form so I can't fill it out."

  • And what it is – what is my obligation in that instance?

  • Maybe you get a new court date so someone at home can fill that out, or someone sitting

  • in the courtroom can help you fill out this information, so that you truly go through

  • a process that is fair for you where you are, and not at the level of everyone else who's

  • reading at a higher level than you can.

  • I love what you share too, you said, "Legalese is the language we use to confuse."

  • Oh, yeah.

  • So, I mean, I see that all the time in business.

  • I'm like, "What does this mean?"

  • And it is.

  • It is really confusing.

  • I love this commitment to helping people understand the process.

  • Something as simple as asking a person who's representing themselves, the judge would say,

  • "Sir, are you proceeding pro se?"

  • The person is like, "The prosecutor's the pro, I'm the amateur."

  • "Are you representing yourself?"

  • "Yes."

  • "Well, let me tell you the dangers of representing yourself," but just literally a change in

  • the word and the person just feels comfortable, and again, they understand that you ... it

  • increases public trust becausenow the judge is ensuring that I have the same fairness

  • as everyone else, one, especially the people who can afford to have an attorney in this

  • process.

  • I can't afford to have an attorney, so when you speak to me, maybe you need to ensure

  • that I understand what happens.”

  • Yes.

  • So let's talk about, I guess, what my favorite principle is, the last one, respect.

  • You said the good thing about respect is that it's contagious.

  • That gets an amen on every day of the week, all around the world, five thousand times

  • over.

  • Walk us through some of the ways that treating defendants with respect has played out in

  • your courtroom?

  • It's something as simple as, "Good morning, ma'am.

  • Good afternoon, sir.

  • Good morning."

  • I'm acknowledging that a person maybe ... if a person runs in late it may have been ... they

  • may be relying on the bus system and we know that when it rains, rain stops the revolution,

  • so your bus is going to be late.

  • The train is going to be late.

  • And acknowledging that.

  • Acknowledging that it might take more time.

  • Seeing them.

  • And Dr. King talks about our somebody-ness.

  • And it's this idea that you see a person, that you see them fully.

  • In my TED talk I talk about the transgender prostitute who comes into court and she's

  • expecting everyone to treat her disrespectfully because that is how she walks through the

  • world.

  • The stares, not being taken seriously, the snickers.

  • She comes to court and she watches a judge treat everyone who comes before she's called

  • with respect.

  • That is what I mean about it being contagious.

  • So she's now, and people do this, they impute the respect that you give to other people

  • to themselves.

  • There's a standard that, "Oh wow, the judge was respectful to this person, so I'm going

  • to be respectful to the judge because that is the standard in this courtroom.

  • That's how she does," right?

  • As opposed to being knuckled up and angry and waiting for a fight before you come in.

  • Because they've already had a fight with the officer they've encountered.

  • Right?

  • They may have encountered someone in the courthouse, maybe going through security that's already

  • annoyed them.

  • Now they come to court, maybe somebody was barking orders at them.

  • You know, I'm very big on we want to hold people to a certain standard when they come

  • into the courtroom.

  • Let's make sure they know what the rules are before they come in so that they're not being,

  • "Take your hat off!

  • Turn your phone off!"

  • Or, "Pull your shirt in!"

  • All of those things are rules that the court has.

  • Courts have different rules.

  • So this idea of respect, being respectful, of how we speak to people, respectful of how

  • we engage them based on what their situation is.

  • I mean, I – we once had a gentleman who thought he was a pirate and every time he

  • came to court he had to sit in the front row, and I guess it's because he believed he was

  • steering the ship from that space.

  • And one day he came to court late and I was already doing my opening and the officer was

  • trying to usher him to the back.

  • He started like physically pushing the officer, "No," because he had to get to this seat,

  • and I waved to the officer, "Let him have his seat," and if you were sitting in his

  • seat you had to move.

  • You had to move, but that was showing him respect.

  • He's this older gentleman, and so the younger person that has to move to give him his seat,

  • that's life.

  • That's what you should be doing anyway.

  • Yes.

  • And so other people see that and they're like, "Wow, so if I need something ..." Respect

  • is seeing an older person come up on a cane and offering them a seat so they don't have

  • to stand before you because it's painful to them.

  • So that's respect, and it is contagious.

  • Then people start to behave respectfully to other folks in the courtroom.

  • They start saying, "Oh, I'm going to give you this seat," or making space for them and

  • treating the community ... There's sometimes I'll have a young person

  • who'll come in with a whole bunch of attitude.

  • I'm a nice judge, but I'm known as the tough judge with the big heart.

  • So I'll say, "You know what?

  • You better go outside, and somebody better tell him who he's dealing with and where he

  • is," and what I love that happens is that people in the courtroom get up and go outside

  • to talk to that person.

  • I love that because it's the community helping each other.

  • They're like, "Look, don't go in there with all that, just be respectful and it'll be

  • an easy process."

  • But to me, that is, now the community is teaching this young person how to behave respectfully

  • in this space.

  • And they know they have an obligation to do it.

  • But also they do itso that's one of my favorite things that happens in court, because

  • people now take it upon themselves.

  • "Young man, I'm gonna help you with this."

  • So that is respect to me.

  • So yes, it's not even having to speak to the person who's sitting in the audience.

  • But they feel respected, because you've respected the person that they've come with.

  • "Mom come up," sometimes a young person or somebody will come up with someone, "Come

  • on up here, since you came to court.

  • Tell me what's going on," and I'll address them as their title in relationship to that

  • person.

  • Right?

  • So you are Mom.

  • Tell me what's going on with your son.

  • I don't like all this rolling of this, what is going on?

  • And I know you're gonna tell me the truth.

  • Right?

  • That's how important, how significant respect is.

  • And that is why I can walk through my community without security.

  • That is why sometimes I've seen gang members down the street and they're like "Judge, let

  • me walk you back."

  • I'm like "Uh-uh, walk me down the street?

  • They'll shoot at you, I'm good."

  • But this idea that I treat you with respect, even when I have to send you to jail.

  • I've had people say "Thank you for those 90 days, I needed them."

  • Because they knew, but before they went to jail I explained, "This is why you're getting

  • 90 days.

  • Because I gave you these chances, and you didn't take the chances.

  • And you have to be responsible for your actions."

  • So I think it really does change the character of the community, and it changes what people

  • see the justice system as.

  • Your courtroom has been described as an off-Broadway show.

  • Lots of cheering and clapping, and often people really desiring coming back to report an update.

  • I wanna talk about praise, and why it's so important, especially in the courtroom.

  • Especially in the courtroom.

  • Again, we're talking about people whotheir lives are usually out of order.

  • I mean, poverty, what does poverty do to you?

  • What does it do to you when you are ill, physically, and also mentally ill?

  • When you are a mother facing eviction, and you come to court and you're like "I can't

  • be here because I have to find a place to live with my children," so folks come to court,

  • like I said, they're in crisis.

  • And sometimes it's the first time that anyone has said "Good job."

  • Like, I know entire families, generations of families, that end up coming through court.

  • Right?

  • So if Grandma's addicted, my uncle's addicted, my mom's addicted, who's left to raise me?

  • Who's taking care of me?

  • Who's telling me that wow, I'm really talented?”

  • So a person writes an essay, and I'm always ... what pours out of people when they write

  • these essays, it's amazing.

  • I mean, I give articles that are written on collegiate level, because that's how I see

  • you.

  • It's like my gift and my curse.

  • I see people as they ought to be.

  • And then it drives me insane when they behave outside of that.

  • So I get fixated on "No no no, we're going to live as this person," and that's the person

  • who's gonna come to court all the time.

  • And so we have the gentleman who's been addicted for 20 years, and when he was 18 wanted to

  • be a Green Beret.

  • And of course at 18 is when the signs of schizophrenia begin to appear in him, so he couldn't get

  • into the service.

  • And he comes to court one day, he's always getting these quality of life tickets, because

  • he's homeless and he's always, as I call him, in the way doing something.

  • And finally after almost a year, he agrees to do this program.

  • Okay, so you're gonna do the program?

  • He's like "Yeah Judge, you know.

  • I wanna be one of these jokers you clap for."

  • And I thought, my God, how powerful that was.

  • That's what he wanted, he wanted to be in a place where a person of authority is like

  • "Good job.

  • You look good today, I'm glad you got a haircut.

  • It looks like, you know, you're doing what you're supposed to do.

  • You went to your mandates, excellent.

  • I heard you did a good job at community service."

  • So even our community service providers are writing, "Did a really good job at community

  • service."

  • So now, again, your sense of worth is being seen, and not just this bad act.

  • You know, of course people are greater than the worst thing that they've done, but that

  • you're only reminded of who you are, of that bad thing you come to court.

  • But then you come to court, and I'm like "Listen.

  • I expect you to return to this community as a productive member of society.

  • That's what I need from you, and that's what I'm gonna hold you to."

  • So yes, so we clap, we smile.

  • A person, you know, graduates from high school _ I shame people into that too.

  • A person graduates from high school and I clap, and if my entire audience doesn't clap

  • I'm like "Oh no no no, people go to prison and come out and we throw them a party.

  • We're gonna clap for this young person."

  • Oh okay, let's try it again.

  • So yes Yes!

  • So yes, we do do that.

  • And tell me about, I heard that someone in a black SUV pulled up to you recently on your

  • street.

  • Can you share that story please?

  • So, this is why treating people with respect is important, because you never know where

  • you're gonna be.

  • I was driving down a street, trying to make a legal left turn, and I get stuck at the

  • light.

  • And someone in this black SUV with tinted windows pulls up, and the window starts to

  • come down.

  • And I'm like, “oh Lord.

  • This never goes good in movies.”

  • And the person says, "Judge Pratt!"

  • And I'm like – when I look, it's this person who, the last time I had heard, they

  • were sitting in federal prison.

  • So my response was "Lazarus has risen!"

  • And the person starts to laugh.

  • And they're like, "I went down to the courthouse," because I'm now at Rutgers Law School teaching

  • problem-solving justice and restorative justice.

  • And they said "I went down to the courthouse to see you, and they told me you're not there.

  • I have this idea for helping young men change their behavior."

  • And I'm thinking, this dude just got out of federal prison, and the first place he goes

  • is down to the courthouse to see the judge?

  • And I just thought about the impact of that.

  • One, again, that's procedural justice.

  • That's this idea of respect, that he has this idea, that he now wants to use to help young

  • men, and he knows that if he goes to the courthouse and sits in the back of the courtroom, he'll

  • get an audience with a judge who will at least, if she can't help him, send him to different

  • places, or even say "Yeah, on this day, I want you to go outside and talk to these young

  • men.

  • I want you to come to court every day, and then talk to young men about changing their

  • behavior."

  • So yes, that was mySUV, so happy that I treated you with dignity and respect even

  • though I got on you when you were in court.”

  • Yes.

  • So you've shared that your dream is that judges will use these tools to revolutionize the

  • communities that they serve, and that of course these tools are not miracle cure-alls, but

  • they get us light years closer to where we wanna be.

  • Tell us more about that vision of where we wanna be.

  • I want the courthouse, and I think we all want the courthouse to be a place of justice,

  • that people know they can go there and have their disputes resolved, and know that it's

  • going to be fair.

  • Whether they win or lose, but that they don't have to take things into their own hands.

  • In my TED talk, we talk again about the transgender prostitute.

  • One of the things that was really revealing to me, and it was one of my really good days,

  • was the day that she came before me as a complaining witness in a case of harassment.

  • There was a woman at her building that every time she saw her would call her a pejorative.

  • And instead of taking matters into her own hands, which is what she usually does, she

  • came down to the courthouse and filed a complaint against that woman for harassment.

  • And I thought – and she came to court and I thought, this is because there is justice

  • here, even for her.

  • Even for me, there is justice at the courthouse, so I'm gonna take you to court, because you

  • harass me, and this is not fair.

  • And I know that something is going to happen to correct this.”

  • And it was actually a blessing in disguise, because the woman who had been harassing her

  • had mental health issues and had been drinking, and she was an alcoholic.

  • So we're actually able to put her in this program, get her back on her medication, and

  • also have her deal with her drugher alcoholism.

  • Because the reality is, is until we deal with those issues, she's going to continue to engage

  • in this behavior.

  • But to also get her to see the humanity in this woman that lives in her building, and

  • that you can't treat her like that, because this is your neighbor.

  • Yes.

  • So yes, this idea of justice, and that people see that there's justice at the courthouse,

  • and that they believe that the courthouse is for them as well.

  • Because when we do studies, we know that people of color do not feel that way, that there's

  • no justice.

  • They believe that there's no justice for them in the courthouses across America.

  • So it's really important.

  • I wanna wrap with this.

  • You've said, we all can shift the world, and we have an obligation to do it from where

  • we stand.

  • For anyone watching today who may not be a judge or may not be a part of the criminal

  • justice system, they might not be able to use the power of procedural justice in the

  • way that you have, what can they do to either support you and your work, to support these

  • principles, or to make the difference that they wanna make?

  • Everything.

  • Vote.

  • Become vocal.

  • Join your organizations.

  • Create organizations.

  • Mentor.

  • Use your gifts and share them.

  • Like, I really wanna thank you for committing your life to helping people live their best

  • lives.

  • Because you could just take your gifts, keep them to yourself, and go make a whole bunch

  • of money.

  • And if what you do is write a check, write a check for causes that really do help people.

  • But don't give up.

  • People give up too quickly.

  • You know, I always say, I don't like to – I don't run with people who haven't experienced

  • anything in life, who've never failed.

  • Right?

  • Because failure is just an event.

  • It is not a characteristic.

  • And people can't be failures.

  • But I've run with people who've fallen and gotten up twice after that.

  • So if you haven't had those experiences, that means to me that you've given up too soon,

  • and that means that when it gets tough for me, when I come to you, you're gonna tell

  • me "No, don't do that."

  • So people should continue to be steadfast in those things.

  • Correct the wrongs that you see in society.

  • If you can make a contribution, no matter how big or small, do it.

  • Spend five hours less on your phone during the week, and commit to it.

  • And do those things that scare you, because it's in those things that scare you that you

  • are going to shift the world.

  • Judge Pratt, I adore you.

  • Oh, thank you.

  • Thank you so much for making the time.

  • Thank you for what you're doing in this world, and I am so excited for this next chapter

  • in your ever unfolding adventure.

  • I am a lifelong fan, and we're gonna get this work out to as many people as we can.

  • Thank you so much.

  • And I'm a mutual fan.

  • Now, Judge Pratt and I would love to hear from you.

  • From everything we discussed today, what's the biggest insight you're taking away, and

  • most important, how can you put that insight into action starting now?

  • As always, the best conversations happen over at MarieForleo.com, so head on over there

  • and leave a comment now.

  • While you're there, be sure to subscribe to our email list, and become an MF Insider.

  • You'll get instant access to an audio called "How To Get Anything You Want."

  • Plus, some exclusive content, special giveaways, and personal updates from me that I just don't

  • share anywhere else.

  • Stay on your game, and keep going for your dreams.

  • Because the world needs that very special gift that only you have.

  • Thank you so much for watching, and we'll catch you next time on Marie TV.

  • Ready to find your voice and sell with heart?

  • We'll show you how.

  • Get started now with our free writing class at TheCopyCure.com.

  • Side effects include enlarged profits.

  • People believe thatthey believe that they are failures, but failure cannot be a

  • person.

  • It can only be something that happened.

  • Right, like my business failed.

  • Not me.

  • So in court, that's what you see, people who believe they are failures, people who've told

  • them "You ain't never gonna ..." Like, to say that, you ain't never gonna be something,

  • and to carry that, and to live it every day.

  • So you live up to that standard, because we always live up to that.

Hey, it's Marie Forleo, and you are watching MarieTV.

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