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  • Chris, thank you so much for joining us.

  • My pleasure, Davis, is this is really cool.

  • I got to tell you, it's an honor to be part on the inaugural kick off this this aspect of master class?

  • Yeah.

  • It's so it's a new for those of you who aren't aware.

  • Master class live as a new asset that we are going to be creating.

  • That provides a way for our users to interact with our instructors in alive setting, Um, and also give them new ways to engage with our content beyond our live streaming videos or downloadable workbooks.

  • And are many maps.

  • Um, so Chris Voss is the former chief hostage and kidnapping negotiator for the FBI.

  • He also taught negotiation at Georgetown and USC business schools and launched his very own master class on negotiation at the end of last year.

  • I m.

  • Davis Carter.

  • I am a senior creative producer here at master class, and I also had the privilege of overseeing the creation of Chris's class.

  • Um, and like I said, Chris, thank you so much for being here.

  • Yeah, my pleasure.

  • This is gonna be fun.

  • I'm looking forward to it.

  • Well, you know, we're gonna sing a couple songs, crack a couple of jokes, will have a good time, right?

  • Exactly.

  • What have you got your beer there That we talked about having thoughts after five someplace.

  • Right?

  • Exactly.

  • Right.

  • Exactly.

  • Right.

  • Um, so, you know, we think this is a great opportunity to provide people with some inspiration and a positive distraction in these challenging times.

  • Um, And on that note, one of the things that I thought was really interesting is that, um we recently learned that your lesson on tactical empathy is actually currently the most watched chapter on the platform on.

  • I thought that was kind of interesting window into the times that we're we're living in right now.

  • Yeah, you know that It is interesting.

  • Appreciate you sharing it with me, too.

  • And, you know, tactical empathy for those of you, if you haven't had chance, toe, uh, watch the core shit.

  • O r.

  • Read the book.

  • You know, it's probably really hard to tell what the title of my book is.

  • Um, you know, it's Are you insane?

  • What the other side's perspective is, that's empathy.

  • It's easier said than done, you know, because what you disagree Well, you should really be able to say, you know what?

  • If they're wrong, you should still be able to say that perspective and the practical aspect that we added to it.

  • Why we use that term is when empathy was first sort of came back into common language.

  • And it spent 30 40 years.

  • Really, we didn't have neuroscience to back up how the brain works, and we got it now.

  • So if we know how the brain works, why not tactically take advantage of that?

  • It's Ah, it's good for people.

  • It works.

  • Those are the two reasons why you should engage in a negotiation Skill number one If it works the number two, If it's good for people that that passed, we'll sniff test.

  • So I'm happy to hear that people are engaging that for better communication.

  • Yeah, Yeah, and, um, in kind of like speaking of the world that we're in right now, um, it's I kind of wanted to start this conversation by taking a look at the situation that everybody is dealing with, um, and how that might impact the way they were engaging with other people, but also the way that we're negotiating with people.

  • Um, I guess like my first question for you would be Does this change the way that we should be negotiating?

  • Well, not I don't know that it changes the way we should be and probably changes the way we are.

  • Yeah.

  • I mean, you know, there's some real bad habits out there.

  • You know, one of those bad habits is you got to get your point across and people focus on that First, um, here the other side out first.

  • Well, you should be negotiating.

  • Is it?

  • You actually go slow to go fast.

  • Um, hear the other side out.

  • First, you'll get the chance to make your point quicker, where they're able to listen.

  • You know, this is sort of an adaptation of advice from way back when of Stephen Covey.

  • You said seek first to understand, Then be understood.

  • Well, well, this is seek first to demonstrate understanding in order to be understood.

  • So, yeah, we should be doing it.

  • Are we doing it now?

  • It's mostly on argumentative society these days, you know, um, battling counterpoints with nobody, but nobody listens, huh?

  • And it's almost like I find myself thinking like the stakes feel really high right now, Like everybody is kind of on alert.

  • And so it seems like, you know, they're They're I guess they're more tightly wound.

  • Um, and it's even more powerful now than it could have been four weeks ago or three months ago.

  • Um, and more important, Yeah, well, we're in the middle of a shift.

  • I mean, this is this hardship is going to create great things on the other side.

  • Um, for example, I was talking to some of the other day, you know, the younger generations quote the millennials twenties thirties or much more comfortable with technology that always someone sold us for older folks in that, you know, technology is here to enhance everybody's lives.

  • All generations of being forced by avenue stay at home to adapted technology.

  • And with that, let's make our communication more effective.

  • Let's hear each other out.

  • You know, let's use negotiation really is a means for drawing closer together for establishing better relationship.

  • So, you know, I think this this shift that we're in the middle of as painful as it is and the cost is going to be high in the interim, we come out on the other side, We're gonna be in a better place.

  • Well, that's encouraging.

  • Um, and I'm I'm curious.

  • When we were talking last week, you mentioned that some of your clients of the Black Swan Group have been coming to you and saying and looking for advice for how they should be approaching their negotiations in the world we find ourselves in.

  • And if you're open to sharing, and I'd be really interested?

  • No.

  • Like, what kind of problems they're coming to you with and what your advice has been to them.

  • Yeah, well, people are people looking to pull out of deals.

  • They're scared, you know?

  • What does this look like going forward?

  • You know, the uncertainty is, is is ridiculously, it's even traumatic, you know, not knowing when something is gonna be over how far this is gonna go.

  • Those are some of the highest stressors that there are.

  • So, you know, I'm telling people would chunk it out a little bit, you know, First of all, articulate the other side's fears, you know, and I you know, I'm gonna will use adult language here, you know?

  • Not bad, but a little bit.

  • You know, I got a client called us up and said, You know, this is a shit show and I said, All right, so that's the way to describe because it cuts to the heart of the matter.

  • It's what everybody's feeling.

  • So when you talk to the people, they're scared to death and feel like they're in the middle of Ah, you know, manure show t come and kind a little bit more.

  • Say that exactly.

  • Say, you know, this is This is a shit show.

  • You scared the death.

  • You don't know when this is gonna be over.

  • There's nothing that works faster and more effectively to driving a stake through the heart of somebody's fear other than just recognizing it.

  • It's it seems counterintuitive, but it's enormously effective and and that's little coaching people to do, you know, help him clear their heads by facing this head on and unflinching and fearless fashion.

  • That's really interesting.

  • And I was, as I was preparing myself for this, I was kind of always trying to think about what you're you're answers might be, And I was like, I actually don't know what people will be coming to him with, but that makes a ton of sense that the accusations audit, which is one of the tactics that you you talk about a really important one right now.

  • It za robust application of the accusations audit.

  • And again, when we talked about in the courses, what are the fears that the other side has about the situation?

  • One of the fears were the accusations they might make at you about you towards you and just articulate them, you know, doing audit, make an inventory, list him out and start your conversation that way.

  • And it's ridiculously effective on how fast it accelerates.

  • Communication is actually really effective.

  • Get you to where you want to be really quickly.

  • That's really interesting.

  • Thank you for that.

  • I appreciate I wasn't sure I was gonna be ableto get you to talk about the Black Swan consulting that you're doing cause I know it's tends to be with people that are very high profile.

  • So thank you very much for that.

  • You know, everybody could use it.

  • I mean, we we try.

  • It's one of the brain things about master class.

  • I mean, what we've blown been blown away with by being, you know, me and my team, it's always you know, you wanna go fast, go long.

  • You want to go?

  • Fargo is a tape, you know, master classes.

  • Such an accessible, ridiculous value.

  • The amount of instruction you guys put out there for the subscription price and high quality of it.

  • I mean, I love doing the shoot with you guys.

  • You guys made me feel like a movie star.

  • Never got treated that that well before.

  • It was a lot of fun.

  • Production values it through the roots and say, Well, thank you.

  • Yeah.

  • And we were sure to have you two playing whenever we broke for take three pets just to keep the energy high.

  • You guys know I'm a big fan of you two.

  • We did our research.

  • That's this bed star job.

  • Um, So I have another question that has to do with the current state of affairs, and we aren't gonna spend this entire conversation talking about it just cause, you know, it will pass, as you've said, but it is top of mind for a lot of people.

  • But while we are on that topic, I'd be curious to know what you how you might approach negotiating with somebody.

  • Um, who for example, is having a hard time convincing a loved one that they need to heed warnings to shelter in place, for example.

  • But how about you approach that?

  • Yeah, well, I mean, what's driving?

  • People do not want to stay sheltered in place.

  • I mean, we have, ah, fairly current term formal fear of missing out.

  • That's not a new idea.

  • You know, Fear of loss, fear of missing out has been driving human behavior since we've been organized.

  • No, Daniel Kahneman.

  • When the Nobel Prize in 2002 for Prospect Theory, which is basically built around fear of lost things twice a cz much is an equivalent game.

  • So how do you deal with it?

  • People who want to stay in because they're afraid they're missing out.

  • So we ask questions, What?

  • Know how questions not to get answers.

  • You know, we call him calibrated questions.

  • Principally, Wouldn't how questions we ask him to trigger thought to trigger deep thinking that again, the Daniel Kahneman we refer to.

  • So you know you ask somebody.

  • How long do you want to be laid up sick when you get sick?

  • How long do you want to be laid up?

  • What's it gonna cost you to get this?

  • Let's say that you're even in an age group that's calculated to survive.

  • You're just gonna get sick.

  • You're gonna get over it.

  • Almond.

  • How many of those symptoms you want inflict on yourself?

  • Have you read people talking about losing their sense of taste and sense of smell for periods of time?

  • How long you want to go without your sense of taste?

  • Lose questions is not to get an answer out of somebody.

  • It's ask him and don't ask it an accusatory fashion.

  • I probably even said it a little accusatory.

  • Just now.

  • It would be more like how how long you do you want to be sick.

  • You know that's deferential.

  • That's curious.

  • How long are you willing to be sick?

  • How much risk do you want to take in spreading it to?

  • You'll survive.

  • But how?

  • How much you want to risk your loved ones, you know, ask questions to get people to think about what they're doing.

  • And that's a design of those questions.

  • What an hour question.

  • Yeah, that makes makes a lot of sense.

  • And that was one of the things that I found.

  • I mean all the things that I found they were so enlightening about your tactics.

  • Um was when I imagine myself on the receiving end it I was like, Oh, you're right.

  • I would think entirely differently about that thing If somebody said like, you're crazy.

  • What are you doing?

  • Going outside like, Why are you putting people in, like, endanger?

  • You know, they stopped doing that thing like that just is the natural human condition.

  • You're gonna be 100.

  • Guard up and you're gonna be resistant to that.

  • Um, yeah.

  • You know, if I could interrupt you real quick because you touched on, um, in the inadvertent mistake that people make a lot when you use in your example asking someone, Why are you doing that?

  • Why always makes people feel accused.

  • It makes him feel defensive.

  • Eso you stop asking people why, Yeah, change my eyes to what?

  • Instead of like, Why are you doing that?

  • Even if you don't like it, you're going to say, you know what's causing you to do that?

  • It takes this thing of accusation out of why and so be really careful about asking somebody.

  • Why?

  • Because the defensiveness that it's gonna trigger is probably gonna damage the interaction, if not the relationship.

  • Absolutely.

  • But when you're asking somebody like what You know, what's it gonna take, you know, or those The how questions it really does it it prompts introspection on their part.

  • Uh, yeah.

  • So that's it Makes sense in your tactics.

  • Prove effective in yet another context.

  • Exact human interaction.

  • It only works where people are involved.

  • Just that.

  • Got it.

  • Um um, my other question that was that A lot of people are finding themselves in new dynamics a lot.

  • Um, like parents that are now home kid home with their kids 24 7 Um, which they enjoy their exact They are the other the hostages.

  • Now, um, and that's what I'd be curious to know what you think.

  • What what advice he would have for those people that air now in a constant state of negotiation with her kids or loved ones that they didn't used to be.

  • Yeah.

  • You know, a lot of it is kind of the same stuff.

  • That is the interesting thing about this when we were talking about how human beings are wired.

  • This also includes pretty much anybody whose cognitive wiring is in place, which is kind of from about age three home, You know, they're developing one more cognitive abilities.

  • And even from the very beginning, you know, the neuroscience wiring is there, you know?

  • You know, as an example, I talk all the time about you got mirror neurons and in your in your head, And, you know, if I smile it, if you can see me, if you can hear me, I can hit your mirror neurons.

  • I can trigger reaction.

  • So bye.

  • Smile at you.

  • You know, you're gonna you're gonna hit.

  • I'll hit your mirror neurons and you'll start to smile.

  • And so one of my favorite neuroscience experiments, you know, I'll be sitting on a plane and be lady next to me with a baby, You know, I like.

  • All right, So this kid's supposed to have mirror neurons.

  • Let me smile this kid and see what see what happened.

  • So, you know, I'm sitting there grinning at this infant, you know, giving him smiles and kids smiling right back.

  • And you know, Mom thinks I'm this great guy and a flight attendant thing.

  • Some this 10 this guy's really nice.

  • You know, He likes kids.

  • And I'm like, I'm doing a brain science experiment here just to make sure.

  • Yeah, I'm conducting lab experiments.

  • Anyway, Get get back to the kids at home.

  • You know, parents, this is your opportunity again to shape your kids thinking I mean what and how questions are designed to shape thinking, you know, don't tell him stuff.

  • You know, I asked him, What are they trying to achieve?

  • Make him think about what they're doing.

  • How does this affect what you want?

  • You know, they they they don't want to eat.

  • They want to play with their iPad, you know?

  • Well, so make the iPad make the evening the condition and get into the iPad.

  • How am I supposed to let you play with your iPad if you haven't finished your day dinner?

  • It doesn't matter what they answer them.

  • What matters is you made him think you're giving your kids thought exercises.

  • You're helping preserve their autonomy.

  • You're happening, become better human beings and grow.

  • And they're thinking processes.

  • I mean, this is an opportunity.

  • Just take a little bit slower approach with your kids and actually get farther faster by taking the seemingly indirect approach.

  • Yeah, and the preservation of the autonomy is another thing that I thought was was really fascinating.

  • Something that resonated for me as well.

  • Thinking about it when I was like, Oh, yeah, when I won my autonomy When I feel it's in danger, my guard goes up or, you know, and I'm Yeah, that s so it's ah being able Thio, formulate your communication in a way that preserves that is so powerful.

  • And that's a human nature response to it.

  • I mean, you're not doing that because your age, your gender, your ethnicity, you human wiring, we're wired for our autonomy.

  • You can't.

  • You can't point to a civilization in the history of mankind.

  • It was content being slaves, you know, And we're broadcasting from a country that's founded on autonomy.

  • Give me liberty or give me death.

  • That's not an American responsive to human response.

  • People will die to preserve their time.

  • Uh huh.

  • And so in changing, I guess.

  • Like not as the accusations, but directives into questions.

  • That's how that's one of the ways that we can help.

  • Couldn't navigate that and not butt up against people trying to preserve their own autonomy.

  • Is that exactly you're a good hour.

  • What question is one of one of the great ways to do that?

  • Got it.

  • Cool.

  • Thank you.

  • I think there's gonna be ah, lot of questions flying around at homes, huh?

  • Later on, today, after people watched this putting things to the test.

  • Now you know it.

  • Stuff it, stuff the current to me.

  • I got you know, one of my favorite examples of a hard question, you know, because at the start of the book, I thought we talked about, you know, you learning to use the question, how much supposed to do that used and kidnapping negotiations.

  • And and I used it.

  • The example of the start of the book is me negotiating, you know, sort of a mock negotiation with Robert Manoukian, who's the head of the program A negotiation and Harvard and bring it through.

  • I mean, Robert Mickens March smart guy, just like everybody else that Harvard clearly, that's whether there you know about that.

  • You know, I hit him with How am I supposed to do that?

  • This my kidnapping negotiation, And he was he was from expired.

  • So everybody kind of learns that.

  • So I get in email a mom is negotiating with a 13 year old child, 13 year old boy.

  • He wants Mom to buy this video game.

  • Pay pay for the whole thing.

  • He says.

  • Mom, this is a video game.

  • This is how much it costs.

  • I want you to buy instead of just saying now she just said, How am I supposed to do that?

  • It goes, Okay, I'll pay half immediately.

  • Cleanses price by 50% and she says, This is so cool.

  • I'm keeps saying, How am I supposed to do that till I wear my And she asked him about four or five times.

  • And finally the kid goes, Mom, are we really that poor?

  • I mean, it just becomes completely worn out and exasperated and she's kind like, Yeah, it was good.

  • I like the way that work.

  • That one in my back pocket.

  • Yeah, that's awesome.

  • Um, well, so, uh, shifting gears from, you know, the world we find ourselves in.

  • Um, Like I said, you know it is Ah, it will pass.

  • And so I'd love thio, take a little bit more of a positive lean for I'm just the next few minutes.

  • Um and also for those of you who are just joining.

  • This is master class live.

  • We're here with Chris, Boss, who is the former chief hostage and kidnapping negotiator for the FBI.

  • And he was also a master class instructor, and he taught a class on the art of negotiation.

  • Thank you for joining us.

  • Yeah, my pleasure in and let me throw it just a little fine point.

  • And I was the lead international kidnapping negotiator.

  • The guy that ran the unit while I was there was Gary Messner.

  • He was he was unit chief.

  • A bunch of his work.

  • For my My my thing was principally was international kidnappings.

  • And I learned a lot from Gary, and I'm appreciative of everything that I learned from him.

  • Gotta thank you very much.

  • I appreciate that.

  • I've got, um I'm gonna have a note for Wikipedia on the title.

  • Uh, yeah, Well, Wikipedia, right.

  • You know that.

  • Yeah, it's true.

  • They do their best there, but yeah, well, I know in my research, I know that I have your full bio, but I was, like, writing, you know, as I was writing up.

  • Although my my talking points I was, uh, did a quick check in.

  • I will be sending, you know, to Wikipedia, but they would appreciate it.

  • Thank you.

  • Um, So, um, I would love to just quickly talk me for, like, the next five or 10 minutes about your experience sense master class on DDE What that's been like, um and I kind of think Like, what?

  • What's been your favorite part of having your class out in the world?

  • Yeah.

  • You know, the people that recognized me from master class or about learning, you know, and that's cool breeze is brought me into contact with so many interesting people.

  • Um, if they say, Hey, I saw your master class.

  • You know, interested people are interested.

  • These are interesting people.

  • They're interested in the world that they wanna learn, you know, they're worth having conversations with if somebody's is taken master class.

  • Yeah.

  • This is somebody that I'm gonna want to sit down, have a cup of coffee with, have a meal with, have a drink with whatever they're doing.

  • They're cool, they're in the learning their cool.

  • And I really enjoy that meeting MME.

  • Or interesting people.

  • And that's been one of the really fun things about having been involved.

  • It was awesome.

  • Um, and have you have you learned anything about yourself or negotiation as a result of this process?

  • Well, yeah.

  • You know, I like to think of learning all the time.

  • So I got I gotta hand it to you guys, though, you know, you tease the story out of me, um, in the end of the master class, about when I get picked on as a kid that that I hadn't discussed with anybody else before, And the fact that that, you know, that was buried in there so deep in the effect that it had on me because I knew I hated bullies.

  • I just kind of for gotten why, which is also give me an opportunity to think a lot about that and think about how that suggested me and how you know, what's my best reaction to someone that I feel is harm to me in the past.

  • And, you know, this sort of I think it's really helped me in processing things like that get better as a human being.

  • So it was another aspect of it that I really enjoy.

  • Uh, this This is my shelter in place at work.

  • we have a deliberate affront, horse.

  • Hurry about that.

  • Um, but and so for those at home who might not have seen your class, would you mind sharing that experience with them?

  • Yeah, well, I get, you know, I get I get cornered by this guy as a kid two different times.

  • It was the first time that I can ever remember being cornered by anybody and was the most scared I was ever in my life.

  • Um, we're the kids that were watching.

  • He was this big guy and, you know, it was a bullet.

  • And, uh, and a TTE the point in time that he was threatening me with, you know, I would, I'd broken a law is gonna go to prison.

  • I was gonna be a little electrocuted, you know, putting these horrible images in my head simultaneously.

  • You know that at that time, you know, back in the door or cages before the internet.

  • And I grew up in a small Midwestern town, you know, the signal to come home was my mother.

  • She didn't.

  • He as they turn us loose on the neighborhood, were fired.

  • So she comes out of the front door and she bullets, I might come home.

  • It was dinnertime.

  • And I remember hearing the whistle blow and a kid wouldn't let me go.

  • I was horrified.

  • I was horrible, you know?

  • I didn't know how to deal with it.

  • I think I think couple other kids that point in time screamed at him.

  • Let him go.

  • Let him go.

  • For whatever reason, you let me go.

  • And then he cornered me in the community pool a couple of days later and started pulling me again.

  • I started to cry, and I think when I was crying the, uh you know, the the lifeguard overheard what was going on, and she blew the whistle.

  • Adam said, Hey, leave him alone.

  • You know, I had forgotten about all that.

  • So, you know, going back to it and thinking about it again and processing it, you know, we learn, and sometimes some of the stuff that we learn from our scars and we just as soon not have not have had those scars inflicted on us.

  • But it takes us to where we are.

  • So I'm happy with who I am today.

  • Them, you know t hell, you gotta go from grief to gratitude.

  • and in a bizarre sort of way, I'm actually grateful that stuff.

  • Yeah, well, thank you again for sharing it with us.

  • Um, we were really happy that you felt comfortable enough to do that both in your class and here.

  • It's actually.

  • And it's funny that you say that about scars being a part of who we are, because I have, ah, tattoo on my arm that essentially it's Latin, but it translates to scars were okay because they show that you've done stuff.

  • Um uh, cool, because that's the sentiment behind the translation.

  • I'm gonna get out there in the world and get scarred up a little bit.

  • Exactly.

  • Unfortunately, Yep.

  • Um, I agree.

  • Well, thank you.

  • Um, on a lighter note for the next little bit, I would love to have you answer some questions that were submitted by your master class students.

  • Um, so these people can be careful cause you're getting ready to make me cry here.

  • You know, there's no sign of baseball.

  • You can't make me cry on camera.

  • Right.

  • You gotta, uh, these We put out an alert just a little while ago to your students, letting him know that we're gonna be doing this master class live event with you.

  • Uh, and we The response was pretty overwhelming.

  • It's been really, really exciting to see how many people were interested in following up with you and having this additional interaction with you.

  • Um, and so unfortunately, can't There were so many that we can't answer all of them.

  • Um, but we're excited.

  • Thio do this.

  • And, Ah, Tau, have you share even more of your mastery with us in this way?

  • Um crafted loose?

  • Yeah, of course.

  • S o the 1st 1 that we're gonna ask is it's from Nicholas and he has a question about mirroring.

  • His question is on how to usually respond when a mirror goes nowhere.

  • Sometimes on me or someone and they'll just say yes, like, didn't you hear me the first time on?

  • That's one of my biggest hurdles.

  • So I was wondering, could you one just give a kind of a quick cliff notes version of what the nearing tactic is and how you might navigate this sort of situation?

  • Yeah, the marriage tactic is just principally repeating the last 1 to 3 words of what somebody just said.

  • This is completely separate from what we've learned in body language and body language.

  • Mirroring is like if you put your hand to your chin, you right into your chin that I put my right hand on my chin and I start to marry you and theoretically, weren't sick.

  • Hostage Negotiators Mayor is all about the words and it's 123 ish words, principally the last 1 to 3 words.

  • But you might pick, you know, one of three from the middle of conversation.

  • Interesting Interesting thing about the last 1 to 3 words.

  • You know, it's it's often when someone's trying to collect their thoughts at the end of the situation.

  • End of the sentence end of what they've just said.

  • And that's why it's such an opportune time to repeat those because it helps somebody sort of gather up their thoughts.

  • It can Next thoughts.

  • They'll typically go on using different words.

  • You know, like like one of my favorites.

  • One of my favorite stories when my son married May.

  • My son Brandon, is president.

  • My company runs our operations Phenomenal negotiate drama and uncredited co author of the book.

  • Um, so we're talking, we're doing a training session, and I asked him if he's got the notebooks ready and you know his picture in his head of the notebook, he senses that he's seeing something has had different than I am.

  • And so he says to me, Would you mean by notebooks, You know, And I just react with, you know, like an American overseas, I'm gonna say the same thing again on Lee.

  • Louder.

  • No books, you know, like that should by saying it louder the same way, it has more meaning.

  • And finally, he just marries me and he goes no books.

  • And I go, Yeah, three ring binders.

  • It was a completely different thing.

  • Yeah, so, you know, it helps people reward now to get to the question.

  • You know, Nicholas Nicholas, my first, uh, thought on that is your tone of voice.

  • You know, you might be mirroring with a downward inflection.

  • And what's a downward inflection?

  • What I'm doing right now is a downward inflection in your voice Tails down at the end.

  • The first thing to do is mayor with curiosity.

  • And I just hit you with the curious tone of voice.

  • And so I'm here with curiosity.

  • The last three words, you know, I can say the last three words.

  • Many downward inflicting Morgan say the last three words and those land completely differently.

  • Curious tone of voice, genuine curiosity.

  • Inclusive is much more encouraging, and your percentage chance of them going on instead of the one word answer is much higher with the inquisitive, curious tone of voice.

  • Now should that fail you?

  • You know, we teach people to shift to a label.

  • What's the label saying?

  • It seems like it sounds like it's look, it looks like putting a label on emotion or dynamic.

  • So the dynamic in the moment is if someone gives you a one word answer, they're communicating to you that what they just said was blatantly obvious.

  • Or maybe it seems like they're communicating.

  • Do they think you're thick?

  • We're a little slow to catch on.

  • I'd follow that mirror if one word answer my first label might be.

  • Sounds like you think this is so obvious that I'm just kind of thick from that catching on, I might shift to the other companion skill to draw it out, because if somebody gives me a one word answer, they're communicating either one of two things.

  • What they just said to them was so blatantly obvious that it needed no further explanation or principally.

  • They may also be communicating to you that they don't trust you and keeping the walls up.

  • So I might also say Sounds like you just don't trust me.

  • Yeah, core seems like it's kind of hard to earn your trust because when you do trust, you trust completely.

  • And that's why you're keeping your guard up.

  • You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna tan it'd lee gently sort of probe around the outside of this with mirrors and labels.

  • I like it past their guard, and I reward them for dropping their guard by continuing to be very respectful and deferential so that they don't regret dropping their guy.

  • That's really that's really interesting.

  • And it was, I think, you know, when we were filming your class, there was we were talking about the importance of flexing these muscles of using these tactics lot to get more comfortable with them.

  • And I think it is sometimes easy for even for me to like lose sight of the fact that a lot of the tactics that you talk about are meant to be used in tandem.

  • Um, right And so and not necessarily in isolation where you're like, in this conversation, I'm in a mirror, this person, and just repeat, you know, look for probe for more information by repeating whether saying, you know that if you do meet a roadblock with one, you can often pivot to another, which is I just think it really makes him even more versatile.

  • So that's great.

  • Yeah, the mirrors in the later it was a great complimentary.

  • And actually, labels are great, complementing all the other skills.

  • You know, we were doing our in person training.

  • We spent a lot of time on mirrors and labels just to build people's agility.

  • In the moment you get good at mirrors and labels, your agility in the moment's gonna be really I Well, I hope that answers Nicholas question.

  • Thank you.

  • Um, the next one that we have is from Angel.

  • And her question is, what advice do you have for women when using the late night F M d J voice?

  • Um, when I try using this technique, it feels like it sets the wrong tone.

  • So do you have any tips for ah, specifically for female negotiators.

  • If you don't mind, it's just to kick things office where it like for those that might not know what the what The late night F M d J voices.

  • Well, the late night FM deejay voice is what I'm doing now.

  • I mean, it's it slows down its downward inflicting now, you know, because myself and most of my team are male, not all of us, but most of it.

  • You know, we we demonstrate and and women will say All right, fine.

  • That's easy for gotta have a deep voice.

  • Well, it's not necessarily a deep voice.

  • It's really just down.

  • We're inflicting and slowing down.

  • And, you know, the female hostage negotiators that we talked and fully half of the negotiators We talked.

  • We're women and were exceptionally good at it.

  • Some of us actually believed that the women are better than the men.

  • Yeah, um, you know, they learned they learned it.

  • It takes some practice.

  • Um, Angel, you probably thinking this probably bit of awkwardness in your head, and you haven't practiced enough.

  • So you need more small stakes practice for high stakes results.

  • You know, with your Starbucks barista with your lift driver with waiter the waitress in a restaurant here.

  • Small stakes practicing you can do the late night FM DJ voice Just slow down and down Would inflict your voice is just gotta drop at the end.

  • It's a little more the clarity ve um so you think gentle, You know your inner voice betrays your outer voice.

  • You want to be thinking gentle, slow and easy inside in your head and they'll come out more in your voice and then experiment in different circumstances.

  • Toe learn.

  • Dad improves design.

  • Figure out when you want to use it.

  • But the only way you're gonna figure out whether or not it sets the right tone is by test driving it and is many small six conversations as you possibly can.

  • And if you feel like it, set the wrong tone and just be prepared to smile right afterwards.

  • And so what is the objective of the late night F M d j voice like it?

  • So I knew that it slows things down, But what is What is it that other utility?

  • Well, it objective.

  • Great question.

  • First of all, I'm hitting your mirror neurons.

  • I'm actually slowing your brain down.

  • I mean, it's a neuro chemical reaction We learned in a hostage negotiation we thought had calmed people.

  • Then it does as a secondary benefit because their brain slows down.

  • So what it does is it tends to calm emotions.

  • It also tends to make the other side feel very sure about what you're saying.

  • So we use it occasionally, occasionally in business negotiations.

  • Now, if I get a term that I'm just not gonna move on the term like if I got to say no to you with the late night FM DJ voice, I'm not gonna say no.

  • I'm going to say it just doesn't war, and you're gonna feel that there's no movement on that time and you're not gonna be feel attacked, bite simultaneously.

  • You're not gonna feel corn.

  • My objective is to show no movement, no flexibility without it being offensive without you feeling attacked without you reacting negatively.

  • So while it was a default voice for the hostage negotiator in business negotiations over all, it should be used about 15 to 20% of the time.

  • Max, interestingly enough, depend upon the circumstances for example, real estate negotiations, every conversation in the buying and selling of a home When hopes and dreams for the future on the line every conversation is a difficult conversation.

  • Agent.

  • The agent conversations a difficult conversation.

  • It really should be the default voice in negotiations such as real estate buying and selling homes where all the conversations have difficult conversations.

  • The late night F M d J boy should be you default tone of voice as opposed to, You know you desire for it to be a happy circumstance.

  • When you close, it will be happy.

  • You know, a lot of real estate.

  • They just want to be happy and perky all the time.

  • Well, it's kind of productive until you calm people down and people got it.

  • There's a lot of stress in real estate.

  • I mean, there's no shortage of surveys that say it's one of five months stressful events in anybody's life.

  • So little more late night F m D day voicing in those types of arena.

  • Wonderful.

  • Thanks very much.

  • Um, so our next question is from Andrea on Dhe, she said, I just started my role as a key account manager.

  • Do the Corona virus.

  • I'm unable to travel on, develop relationships both internally and externally, Um, which my job is highly dependent upon.

  • What do you recommend?

  • And I think this is It's a certainly applicable now, but it's it's broadly applicable, even in times where we're not dealing with over dealing with where people need to try and develop these relationships but not might not have the avenues that they're looking for.

  • Yeah, well, and here's your opportunity to get get better telephone calls and e mails.

  • But how do you get better telephone calls and e mails?

  • First of all, you're you're being forced to go more on email again.

  • You got to cut your emails down, write shorter emails.

  • Um, not longer.

  • I mean, you hate reading long e mails, and you probably right, So you're trying to get a lot done in an email, get less done in your e mails.

  • The last impression is the lasting impression.

  • Um, you know, we call that in my company.

  • We call that the Oprah rule, you know, because Oprah and her people lived by that, you know, and a friend of mine, Cindy Mori, have been Oprah's Booker forever.

  • Cindy is a wonderful person, and she said, you know, the internal philosophy often in the entertainment world.

  • Let's say it's in a limo out attacks, but with Oprah and her people, it's in a limo out of limbo.

  • You know, they realized how you're treated at the end is extremely important.

  • It determined that whatever your experience has been with them in their production company, in whatever fashion, you're gonna feel like you're been treated well from beginning to end.

  • Now, back in about 2008 I run across Cem Gallup.

  • Poll data is shared with me that human beings, we don't remember things.

  • How they happen.

  • We don't remember from chronologically movement.

  • We remember the most intense moment and how they ended.

  • The best impression is a lasting impression.

  • What does that mean?

  • What that means in your phone calls and in your e mails, first of all, make them shorter.

  • Secondly, you know, whatever, Rosie language, positive first impression you're going to try to make at a bare minimum, be determined to repeat that at the end.

  • You know, whoever you're talking to, you might start out by saying like, Hey, you know what?

  • We look for the ah productive long term relationship.

  • We want to be partners with you for the next 30 years.

  • Make sure you say at the end the last impression is a lasting impression.

  • Just cause you said it would be getting the first impression is immediately wiped away by all subsequent impressions.

  • The last impression is a lasting impression in your phone calls and your e mails.

  • Make that hot.

  • Those positive greetings at a bare minimum, repeated at the end of the year.

  • Thing I do on those phone calls and e mails and your cold calling people instead of starting out by saying like Hey, I love you, you wonderful started a little bit of an accusations auto.

  • What's going through their mind, what's going through their minds.

  • They're probably wondering why they took the phone call.

  • So start out by saying like, you know, right now, you're probably wondering why you took this phone call.

  • You know, right now, even though your home your busiest tak, you're overwhelmed by the circumstances, and you really worried about how long this phone call is gonna take, start articulating what's going through their mind as their starting the phone conversation?

  • Or is there reading the email, you know, ah, CEO of note found fat systemic.

  • Excuse me.

  • They got they changed the beginning of their e mails by starting out in recruiting programmers in Silicon Valley by saying what the guy is gonna be Look thinking if you open the email because they're open rates because, programmers, Aaron, ridiculously high demand that Iraq stars in Silicon Valley.

  • You know, they're they're they're the devious everybody wants.

  • So they change your emails to right now, you're probably asking yourself why you're reading this e mail, which is what somebody's gonna be thinking.

  • And they're open rate and a read rate went through the roof.

  • So start out your e mails and your phone calls articulating what you know is going through their mind and you're gonna find on Don't deny it.

  • Just just say it.

  • Ah, that's the massive two millimeter shift from the denial to simply saying and you're gonna find that your your phone calls while you're stuck at home, your phone calls and your e mails are gonna be far more effective.

  • Got it s so so accusation out about audit upfront and then great lasting impression at the end.

  • It's gonna make those more either justice to optimize that the communication when you are able to have it.

  • That's right.

  • Hot little.

  • You just did.

  • You just gotta That's right out of me.

  • Yeah, Yeah.

  • Uh, pat on the back.

  • Um, So the next question we have is from Dmitri on.

  • His question is in business negotiations.

  • Have you ever encountered somebody who knows your tactics?

  • How do you go about the situation when somebody says I know what you're doing?

  • You're married a long time.

  • I mean, first of all, um, we use It's not without somebody's using a tactic.

  • His tactics.

  • It's why they used him.

  • Um, we use them on each other in a company all the time.

  • Like I Nobody's trying to get me to say yes inside of my company in, like, 5000 years.

  • Because yes is a horrible response.

  • Everybody says are you against you?

  • Disagree?

  • Wouldn't be a bad idea, You know, we're driving for no all the time because it preserves people's of time.

  • Now, if somebody says I don't want you doing using negotiation techniques on me, you know, my answer is probably gonna be Sounds like you don't trust me, because if I'm using those tactics on me on you.

  • You're You're afraid you're worried that I'm not in a position.

  • Why?

  • I've earned your trust yet.

  • You know what?

  • My favorite stories?

  • Because I've always been into labeling.

  • I started this back in 19 nineties.

  • You know, when I volunteered on suicide Highland again before the Internet, The dark ages before cell phones.

  • And so I've been a fan of this stuff all the time.

  • So flash forward to about 2006.

  • I'm selling the FBI.

  • I'm talking other hostage negotiators.

  • We're having a disagreement.

  • I stayed one of my buddies.

  • A negotiator.

  • I said, You know, it sounds like this is really important to you.

  • New guys don't do that stuff to me.

  • Don't you dare use that hostage.

  • No, don't use that on me.

  • And I just hesitated for a second.

  • I said, sounds like that bothers you.

  • What?

  • Yeah, You don't really does.

  • Uh, so, you know, just just be authentic.

  • Don't try to take advantage of people.

  • And if somebody's got their guard up there telling you that their guard is up and you haven't earned their trust yet and continue to be deferential and gentle and and as long as you're not trying to cheat him.

  • Then it's okay if you're trying to cheat him, you know, use your prize for good and not evil.

  • I can sniff pretty fast when somebody's trying to cheat me, and they'll use my tactics on me.

  • And I'll say, Have you given up on giving us a 50% discount on your training?

  • My answer to them will be yes.

  • Huh, That's wonderful.

  • And it's I think, I think if the people be intent, you know, is really is an important thing.

  • And also because of people Have you taken your class or read your book?

  • Um, and taking it to heart.

  • You know, they know that your your objective is negotiating to a better outcome, not win.

  • Lose like I'm taking everything.

  • Therefore you're getting nothing.

  • Great long term relationship, great long term relationships.

  • We will prosper together.

  • And in 20 years, when we talk about it will say why the last 20 years were awesome.

  • Thank God we were partners.

  • That's, you know, a core value that that I operate on everybody my company operates on.

  • Wonderful.

  • Well, thank you for that.

  • Um, so here's a question.

  • It's from Theresa, and she says How would you advise jobseekers to respond?

  • Thio.

  • What are your salary expectations?

  • This is hands down the most challenging question for us.

  • Even though employers are not technically allowed to ask for it, it still prompt you to reveal it.

  • Yeah, well, you know you can you can reveal it, but you say, you know, I'd be happy to share that with you, but let let's let's pitiless pivot to the side for a moment because, you know, regardless of the salary, regardless, you

Chris, thank you so much for joining us.

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