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  • Hello and welcome to Sideshow Talk.

  • Show that on Sideshow, where we talked to interesting people about interesting stuff and then talk to a bizarre animal.

  • But first talking to a different bizarre animal.

  • This is a great gardener of size show psych and of nature League.

  • And, uh, just of Missoula, Montana.

  • How are you?

  • I am good.

  • Seasons are thing in Montana.

  • They sure are.

  • And we didn't get that growing up in Florida.

  • And so there's this really neat, uh, energy that comes with some the month of May, or like October.

  • Just that changes.

  • So I'm actually I'm actually good.

  • I like the fact that summer is different than February.

  • Yeah, for example, you're here in part to give us an update on how the whole world is doing.

  • You know, I was first sort of exposed to this idea that, like, you know, there are mass extinction events, and I knew about that.

  • And then somebody was like, We're in the middle of one, and we did it.

  • And I'm like, I am uncomfortable about that, sir, The rude.

  • Let's let's take a wine.

  • What's back up?

  • I a lot of cards on table here thank you.

  • There is a decrease in biodiversity happening on the planet and we are studying that, and there's lots of people are.

  • But recently a lot of people got together to talk about it.

  • It it present some ideas and findings, and you know about that.

  • I do not.

  • This is great.

  • Once you didn't tell me about it.

  • Bubbly.

  • So what's really neat about this?

  • And this is recent As of filming this, this is things that came out in May.

  • This incredible thing exists, and it's called the Unfortunately I p b e s horrible.

  • Say some PR guy really screwed that one up like the I'd be as reported.

  • Oh, yeah, they really did make a really did.

  • And so the i p c c maybe centrally the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

  • Right?

  • But it's like, Hey, we're saying this is a threat to humanity.

  • This is this is a threat that crosses the boundaries of a country that crosses the boundaries off of geography.

  • All these things.

  • And we're saying Let's talk about what to do but also gathered the best available data and go from there and make choices and plans and actions from that so that the things like the Paris agreement the information scientifically that's there comes from something like the i p c c the's huge working groups.

  • So, um, a little bit back some biologist came together and they're like, Cool.

  • Great idea.

  • What if here me out?

  • Can we have one of those but for biodiversity and give it a bad man and make it like way longer than I D c C What is it?

  • I p p E s International Intergovernmental Panel on Policy for Bo Derision.

  • Ecosystem service is it's horrible variable Very much What ecosystem Ecologists say.

  • So would it Couldn't just be like life panel.

  • Yeah, LP.

  • But why didn't they call me?

  • And you know it is So we So we now have this I, p.

  • B s.

  • And again just think about this as a global collaborative of scientists, both governmental, non governmental in academia, not academia.

  • Just people who collect data, analyzed things and come together and say not only hears the sitch, but what do we do about the sitch?

  • The interesting thing about ecosystems service is packed on to hear the word service, and this is again like an entire This is you.

  • And I just like going on for an hour or some other time.

  • But I really do think it's important to point out the connotation in the ethics and what underpins that word.

  • Sure to say that they're being serviced by something is very much so saying we're here and this is Yeah.

  • And I mean, I think that if you're gonna get a bunch of governments and a bunch of capitalists cause they all are like to agree that we need to take something seriously, then you have to make a value based capitalism based on the way it's the way to bring people to the table.

  • And I understand that it's just not notice that I come to bring it up if you at least wanna put it out there.

  • I like the idea of people coming to the table because of the intrinsic value of I like the Earth.

  • Better when these things exist.

  • Yeah, and maybe I never see them.

  • Maybe we never interact Whatever is one piece but yes, to bring full countries.

  • I'm not naive, right?

  • I don't totally get it.

  • It's bringing people to the table, so yes, biodiversity and ecosystem service is, um how are they?

  • Yes, so knock it.

  • Um, So on May 6th ish Ah, they the eye PBS, which again is like through the U.

  • N.

  • Released their executive summary.

  • And they said, Guys, here's what we have been working for years, hundreds of scientists on this to say, How are we doing life on Earth?

  • And also, this service is rendered by that life on earth.

  • And so they only put out like this.

  • The summary report.

  • The full report comes out later in 2019 and is expected to be like 1500 pages, which I will go through at that time and we'll talk again.

  • It'll be great.

  • Um, And then in the very end of May, they released a draft of six chapters, and these six chapters are things like, What is the state of the same nature?

  • And if you go to their like appendix, nature is saying mainly biodiversity and some other things.

  • What is the state of that contribution to humans?

  • And then what is the state of so like nature itself, the state of nature's contributions?

  • But then the lovely thing about this report is that they spend a lot of time talking about the future.

  • What to do?

  • Transformative change.

  • Where do we go from here on how to incorporate these things?

  • So for this first again, we only have the executive kind of summary to go on right now.

  • But there are a couple things that made major headlines you may have seen.

  • There were some lovely things to wake up to on on May 6, words were one million species threatened with extinction for everything is dying.

  • I didn't actually see that one.

  • The 1st 1 I definitely I'm sure someone here that so there was this one million species stat pulled out.

  • And I think that while that is true, as for his threat, threat does not mean a now threat is has a temporal a time component.

  • It's saying, Here's a thing that could happen, but it's not gone yet.

  • So I like to be really careful with this language.

  • And unfortunately, the headlines reporting lines were not not knots.

  • A new one.

  • I know about headlines, you know?

  • I write it, I got headlines.

  • I understand what you're doing.

  • You got this?

  • He goes, Yeah, but a tremendous amount of work in time has gone into.

  • There's a lot of people hours spent on this.

  • Incredible.

  • Now there's the concerns being laid out.

  • Um, is this sort of giving us better perspective than we have before this report came out?

  • I think so, but only if we actually look at the the details and not it's not knowing every statistic, but it's knowing this versus this.

  • How is how much impact does this have versus this thing, or in terms of full, like groups of species?

  • You know?

  • How is this big group doing versus this one?

  • I think those are what we need, and and the way that it's been reported is just a four.

  • Here's the things.

  • So I do think we actually know quite a bit more now, for example, things about the idea of how we are transforming the surface of this planet we live on.

  • So the we being humans, like 40% of land as agricultural or urban, the fact that only in the last few years the human population crossed over the halfway mark.

  • So now more than half of all humans live in a urban area, so that kind of transformation One thing that caught me is Ah, fisheries, actually, So I've I've been under the impression and it's not incorrect.

  • It's just not complete that agriculture.

  • Is that the big No, no.

  • But parts of the draft.

  • I love Oreo cookies, all various things created through agriculture.

  • Chapter seven is actually on Nabisco's Oreos.

  • Yeah, right.

  • It's a draft still keeping my This will come out later because 19 we'll make a comeback that right?

  • So So agriculture is a thing, but it turns out that fisheries is actually I think they stayed of something like four times more of an impact.

  • There's always impact on what right?

  • That question matters again.

  • This is not full report, but just these.

  • Like this versus this.

  • That was new to me, really.

  • I mean, it's it's the ocean, obviously, is most of the surface of the planet.

  • It's also most of the ecosystems on the planet is not like on land.

  • You have sort of a few tears where you can have ecosystems happening like just below the surface.

  • On the surface, in canopies put in the ocean.

  • It's like the top that this is like layers and layers and layers of potential ecosystem.

  • Yeah, there's a lot of livable space and oceans a lot more than there is on the land.

  • Totally.

  • We extract a huge amount of just protein.

  • You know, he calories from the oceans and the the people and places that are consuming these things in these ratios, that is actually also of huge importance.

  • So for us living here.

  • So we're filming in Missoula, Montana, right In the United States.

  • Perhaps you and I, and the majority of people where we live don't have fish as their main protein to live.

  • However millions hundreds of millions of people around the world that is life for them, that is my child, surviving and having nutrition, right?

  • And so So It's also one of those, like check yourself.

  • What's it like, where you live versus the world.

  • And I like checking myself right, Which is why I say that, like, agriculture is the problem.

  • Fisheries are a problem.

  • But also, like I am pro agriculture pro our way also stopped agriculture today.

  • There would be some some pretty big through some things.

  • We need to iron you minor detail.

  • Yeah, So are their action items that are gonna come out of this.

  • Yes, yes.

  • And this is.

  • And this is what gives me hope in something this, Unfortunately, this is not so sexy to report on.

  • It's easier to report on the things better life look, you know, 30% of corals should sharks in their relatives, my poor baby.

  • Sharkey's not looking good for the fact that yet the jungle systems all these things.

  • Yeah, the picture is not good, but to not.

  • Then look at these.

  • Two of the six chapters are about laying out plans and and transformative change because again, a 1,000,000 species threatened with extinction is not a 1,000,000 species extinct.

  • And so that's what excites me because otherwise, well, it's just terribly depressing.

  • What is?

  • And so and as you know, like at I work within the field of international literacy conservation.

  • It's a very depressing daily existence if we don't think about actionable items, and that's just true for life, right?

  • We want to we want to mean something and make some difference.

  • Like you and I have just spoken about just before in passing like humans are incredible not only in their capacity to affect things but to care about things like, and that's a beautiful thing.

  • So, um, your nose you got your action items looking down a list there, literally having to do list from the U.

  • N.

  • Tell me what Should I stop eating salmon?

  • Well, who can say, um, so this is fun.

  • They've done.

  • They've gotten very clever.

  • Berry High end.

  • Um, they've got some metaphors, some graphics.

  • It's all very confusing.

  • What they've decided with this report is they're talking about levers and then leverage points.

  • So in the report, they have five main levers on and they are saying here these things that multiple actors so individual citizens, communities, public sector, private sector governments all these things can work these levers, but apply them at leverage points and whoever is no good.

  • If you don't have a fulcrum, we need a fulcrum.

  • That's that's physical eyes.

  • This I learned that in our crowd He knows this.

  • Thank you, Fulcrum.

  • None of no individual part of my body is we need leverage points.

  • Great years here, the levers, 1st 1 incentives and capacity building.

  • I like this.

  • I guess we're talking about bringing people to the table incentives.

  • So the idea of maybe we have businesses like not just write a check to be able to wreck something.

  • Maybe instead, businesses have a better incentive to do not build on new land.

  • Do these other things right?

  • Cross sectoral cooperation.

  • Love that.

  • Yeah.

  • So it's different sectors.

  • Half to talk.

  • 21 enough to sector.

  • I think they mean, I think that means societally soap.

  • So perhaps like both in disciplines.

  • So the idea, like engineers speaking Thio economists speaking to Ecologists.

  • But I was also under the impression that it meant also the public speaking to governments speaking to like those.

  • I think it's pretty broad again.

  • We'll get new details as they come out these air, just like the fancy little bullet points.

  • They've got preemptive action.

  • We're really bad about thinking long term.

  • I think that's just a thing for life on Earth.

  • Even the evolution is long term, like it is very hard to be fair.

  • We're better at it than any other species we're just doing.

  • You don't know no idea what answer doing well.

  • It's true.

  • You do not know it's true.

  • I've never talked to an anti hive hive in says I'm not messing around neither they're like no maps.

  • They have full.

  • There's a queen ant right now.

  • That's like I e.

  • I know it and I'll find her.

  • And she'll be Gloria's.

  • Yes, preemptive action.

  • It's hard, but just the idea of what we're doing right now that applies lovely decision making in context of resilience and uncertainty.

  • This I love the way that any of that for normal daily life don't make decisions when I have uncertainty.

  • I think it's lovely to see the word uncertainty within any kind of scientific report, because that makes me feel like people care about the reality of what science is.

  • Yeah, they get, they get it, they understand that.

  • And but, like with the I p.

  • C.

  • C, we've learned that, like uncertainty can sometimes open you up to criticism from people You guys don't know anything.

  • Look at your books.

  • Yeah, and but, like, obviously with something as complicated as this is gonna Corley totally.

  • And so this idea of making decisions, but knowing that not only we can think about decisions in terms resilience, but also uncertainty.

  • And I just love that and like you said, like everyday life, pretty much all of these apply to everything.

  • Yeah, on.

  • And then the last one of these levers, which are then applied, is environmental law on implementation.

  • And that's big.

  • And that's not something I do or you do.

  • But I know that when I was growing up, I thought that was like, maybe a thing I would do.

  • I was like, Oh, law, I can talk and argue things, But if it's something I care about, like environmental things, you know, I didn't go that way.

  • But I know it's important friends who do that in, like, you know, there's two pieces of that.

  • There's actually like There's passing laws making it so that, like we consider externalities when we decide to do stuff as a society is externalities, externalities is leverage 0.6.

  • Um oh, you And then and then also actually arguing the law because, like, it's no, it's no use if your not enforcing the law.

  • And there's not like a body out there for the for the international very hard, very hard, even even the national like you have to have someone who will come in and actually bring the lawsuit because oftentimes the government doesn't have the interest or resource is to actually enforce the laws that they pass exactly.

  • And then that makes him not not worth what their job.

  • They must be implemented.

  • Walls don't do anything.