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  • Male Speaker: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CNBC Debate

  • "The West Isn't Working."

  • Please switch off your phones. We are ready to begin.

  • This debate is being televised by CNBC, and your presence is considered your

  • consent to be filmed.

  • And now, please welcome your moderator,

  • Maria Bartiromo. [Applause]

  • Maria Bartiromo: Good morning everyone. Thank you so much for joining us this

  • morning. For the first time in a long time, if not

  • ever, there is a conversation happening around the world that is questioning the

  • sustainability of the super power status of the West.

  • Why is the West not working? We are here today to talk about one of

  • the most urgent problems of our time, unemployment.

  • The global recession has resulted in a massive loss of jobs, creating what the

  • head of the IMF has called "a wasteland of unemployment," and Dominique Strauss-Kahn

  • is not the only one concerned.

  • President Barack Obama: That world has changed, and for many, the change has been

  • painful.

  • I've seen it in the shuttered windows of once booming factories and the vacant

  • storefronts on once busy Main Streets.

  • I've heard it in the frustrations of Americans who've seen their paychecks

  • dwindle or their jobs disappear -- proud men and women who feel like the rules have

  • been changed in the middle of the game.

  • They're right.

  • The rules have changed.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Without jobs, the economy cannot recover.

  • We are here today to find solutions. Meet our panelists: Arianna Huffington of

  • The Huffington Post; Naveen Jindal, the head of Jindal Steel and Power; Laura

  • Tyson, professor at the University of California Berkeley and an adviser to the

  • Obama administration; and Philip Jennings, General Secretary of

  • UNI Global Union. Ladies and gentlemen, our challengers.

  • Today's debate is in two parts and in each of these, a motion will be argued by our

  • advocates.

  • They'll have 90 seconds to make their case.

  • They'll then face questions from our challengers and from all of you,

  • the audience. We are looking forward to your

  • participation so get ready with your questions.

  • Motion 1: For a dynamic workforce, go East.

  • Most of the jobs lost since 2007 have disappeared from the West.

  • Meanwhile, some emerging countries have barely felt the recession.

  • In the battle of jobs, who is winning? Manuel Salazar: We recorded open

  • unemployment going up by more than 30 million people.

  • It becomes more and more difficult to get those millions of people out of the

  • unemployment and into jobs.

  • Ian Cheshire: Our key challenge in the West is to prepare for the next generation

  • of jobs, the type of skills that will be needed, the type of industries that will

  • be around in 20 years. Ben Jealous: We need vision for how we in

  • the West continue to employ people who have fewer skills or whose skills can be

  • found somewhere else for cheaper. David Arkless: In places like China,

  • Vietnam, Indonesia, where the workforce is probably as dynamic as we've ever seen in

  • the industrial era. President Barack Obama: When global firms

  • were asked a few years back where they planned on building new research

  • and development facilities, nearly 80 percent said either China or India.

  • David Arkless: They should be scared about how efficient the Chinese economy

  • is becoming because it will, if we allow it, dominate the world economy.

  • The issue is can we compete? Can the West come back?

  • Maria Bartiromo: Let me introduce our first advocates.

  • Arguing for the motion that for a dynamic workforce, go East is Kiran Mazumdar-Shaw,

  • CEO of Biocon. And against the motion is Barry Silbert,

  • CEO of SecondMarket. Kiran, please begin.

  • Kiran Mazumdar-Shaw: Thanks, Maria. Well, you know, in an interconnected

  • world, it's just bound to happen that jobs will move from the stagnant mature markets

  • of the Western Hemisphere to the very vibrant and high-growth markets in the

  • East. And in an interconnected world, I think

  • companies will be compelled to move money and jobs to make them more globally

  • competitive to the East.

  • So there is enough evidence to show that this is happening.

  • I mean if you look at what's happening with companies in U.S. and Europe,

  • they are on a hiring spree in Asia whilst they are shedding jobs back home.

  • So the evidence is there.

  • We have to accept that jobs will move to regions where there is high growth

  • and higher returns. Manufacturing, conventional,

  • traditional manufacturing is going to move East because that's where the lower label costs

  • are. That's where better capital efficiencies

  • are. So this is the shape of things to come

  • and the West has to accept it. But having said that, I do believe that

  • it's not all bad news because the Western consumer has benefited in a big way.

  • Take for example mobile phones. If it wasn't for the huge economies of

  • scale created by India and China, you couldn't get those bargain prices at

  • Walmart or Best Buy. So the way I look at it is that times have

  • changed and I think the West has to accept that fact that there has to be a different

  • way of creating new jobs. Jobs being lost have to be replaced with

  • different jobs. Maria Bartiromo: Kiran, thank you very

  • much for that side of the argument. Now let's hear the other.

  • Barry, over to you.

  • Barry Sibert: When I was first approached about participating in this debate, I was

  • hesitant to accept the invitation to defend the West.

  • Aside from the fact that I have two very large Asian investors in my company,

  • how can I overlook the success of incredible entrepreneurs like Ms. Shaw and the many

  • startups in developing countries blazing paths oftentimes against significant odds?

  • But it got me thinking given that small businesses are the largest job creators,

  • what does it take to start a business? I quickly realized that contrary to the

  • title of the debate, the West is working quite well.

  • There are really kind of four key critical elements that are necessary to starting

  • and growing a business. First, you need a skilled and educated

  • workforce. Second, you need rule of law,

  • including intellectual property protection. Third, you need a proper balance between

  • government regulation and free markets. And lastly, you need access to capital.

  • And it is this final element that I believe the West outshines the East in

  • particular. The West I believe has the most developed

  • capital formation process, from angel investing to venture in private equity

  • funds to the markets both public and now private necessary to support innovative

  • businesses, and it is these types of companies that create long-lasting

  • sustainable jobs. So I offer to the audience that the West

  • can in fact be the engine for future job creation, particularly if the government

  • and business can work together to find easier access to risk capital for small businesses.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Thank you very much. You both make terrific arguments.

  • Challengers, these are the two arguments. Who is right?

  • Naveen Jindal: Well, I think Kiran Shaw is completely right, that it is happening

  • in the East.

  • We are all the time looking for people. We are hiring, say, in our steel

  • and power business, we are looking, we are hiring thousands of workers,

  • skilled, semi-skilled, even unskilled people and giving them those skills which are

  • necessary. In fact, we have a problem of not finding

  • enough skilled people, and that's a very big responsibility.

  • We almost need an additional 300 to 350 million trained people by 2020.

  • And I completely disagree with what Barry said because if the West was working well,

  • now why would the unemployment rate be so alarming?

  • And all those clippings you showed,

  • why would there be such an alarm? Why would CNBC host a program called "The

  • West is Not Working?" if it was working well?

  • So CNBC can't be this wrong.

  • Maria Bartiromo: A fair point. Philip J. Jennings: We need a message of

  • hope from this event. The working people of the West are ready

  • to save the West if they are given the chance.

  • There was a rotten business model in the West which brought those economies to

  • their knees. It was the people that paid the bill.

  • They are angry. They are cornered.

  • And if we have the argument, if I have to face a group of workers and I say,

  • "The future is in the East," they will be more Jasmine Revolutions by the day.

  • Maria Bartiromo: And we've seen protests. Philip J. Jennings: People have to wake

  • up. People have to wake up.

  • The G20, wake up. We've asked for a working party at the

  • G20 on unemployment. We are still arguing.

  • Sarkozy is here tomorrow. I hope he's got his jobs mojo with him.

  • We have to -- there are things to address.

  • The G20 has to wake up. We have to look at inequality.

  • Henry Ford was right. You put money in workers' pockets

  • and we'll make the wheels of the economy turn. It is not happening.

  • The top 10ths of one percent in the

  • States took 30 percent of all the income during the course of the last 20 years.

  • Maria Bartiromo: So you agree with Kiran? Philip J. Jennings: We got to plan.

  • Maria Bartiromo: You agree with Kiran? Philip J. Jennings: No, I don't agree

  • with Kiran. Kiran, we need to grow in the East and the

  • West. India, you have to create 270 million jobs

  • in the next 20 years. You are going to need the help of the

  • West to help you get there. You have 100 million people living in

  • poverty today.

  • Kiran Mazumdar-Shaw: Well, you know, Philip, I do agree with you in a way that

  • this is about creating a new kind of global job market.

  • This is about creating complementary and equitable jobs in both hemispheres, and I

  • think we have to create jobs that share risks and resources across the innovation

  • and commercialization continuum. So I agree with you to that extent and I

  • think the West will have to become more, depend on countries like India and China

  • to be globally competitive. You cannot build vertically integrated

  • job markets in the Western Hemisphere or in any hemisphere for that matter.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Arianna. Arianna Huffington: What is missing in

  • the West is what really was here in the introduction to the show, which is that

  • sense of urgency. I think the introduction to this show

  • should be played at the White House and on Capitol Hill and in parliaments around

  • Europe everyday because that sense of urgency around jobs is really missing.

  • I mean politicians, as the President said in the State of the Union, talk about jobs

  • but they are not really doing anything about jobs and it's this dysfunctional

  • political system in the West that's making it so difficult to produce anything but

  • suboptimal solutions that's creating that danger because remember, when the West

  • brought a sense of urgency to saving the financial system, they saved the financial

  • system. We have enough tools in our toolbox.

  • It's just that we never brought that same sense of urgency around jobs.

  • And yet, it's not just the economic problems that ensue.

  • It's the political instability that is growing.

  • And I have two daughters in college and increasingly, we have college graduates

  • who cannot get jobs. Just imagine that.

  • That really disrupts the natural course of events.

  • So as well as all the other problems we are facing, the problem of youth

  • unemployment in the West is particularly large and so we cannot just,

  • unfortunately, assume that things will get better by themselves.

  • Laura Tyson: Can I say something here? I think actually Barry raised a very

  • important point. I think we should realize that until the

  • crisis, if we had a discussion here five years ago, we wouldn't have this

  • discussion. Five years ago, and the evidence is very

  • strong on this, it's not an either/or proposition.

  • There was complementarity and jobs growing both in Asia and in the emerging markets

  • and certainly in the United States. So we have here a very profound deep

  • cyclical problem. It does not mean if we go forward,

  • we cannot find a world with enough growth that we have jobs growing in both places.

  • So I don't agree it's like a shift, oh my God, a job there is a job lost.

  • It's just not true. Research establishments in emerging

  • markets are complementary in many respects to research establishments in the U.S.

  • or Europe. To Barry's point, I think Barry is making

  • a very important point. Look at issues of ease of doing business.

  • That list is dominated by many Western economies, including the United States.

  • And with the right capital market conditions, with the right demand

  • conditions, with the right physical and monetary policy, the U.S. has been

  • and will be in the future a powerhouse of entrepreneurship.

  • Most jobs that most people have in the world for now and the foreseeable future,

  • even though they will be globally integrated, will be local jobs.

  • They will be jobs that are service jobs for the people who live in their regions,

  • their communities, their states, and their nations.

  • And those jobs will depend upon two things: one is the amount of demand,

  • how healthy the macro-economy is, and two is the strength of the educational system in

  • those economies. And we can talk about that.

  • That's going to be the second session here, but I think that's, for me,

  • I believe the U.S. can get its macro house in order.

  • I worry very much about the educational challenge.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Education is a critical part of this and we are going to get

  • there. Let's bring in our audience and our

  • special invited guests will kick that off with the front row.

  • Comments? Who is right?

  • Adi B. Godrej: I think that what we should realize, as Laura mentioned,

  • that the recent rise in unemployment in the Western world has little to do with job

  • transfers to the East. It has to do with the slowdown of the

  • economy post the financial crisis.

  • The system worked very well just prior to that and we need to encourage that.

  • Comparative advantage will create for productivity increases which will add to

  • global growth and lead to employment creation in both parts of the world.

  • I think we should also distinguish between unemployment and unemployability.

  • Some of the unemployment may be because of economic factors.

  • But a lot of it is because of unemployability created by lack of

  • education, lack of training. I don't see why in the Western world

  • where unemployment benefits are paid out in large numbers simultaneously insistence

  • of those people going through training programs is not done.

  • Maria Bartiromo: This is a very critical point and we will get to the skill sets

  • that are required to get the jobs of tomorrow in the next segment.

  • Zhu Min, you've spent a long time running the People's Bank of China and then moving

  • over to the IMF. You have a special vantage point here in

  • terms of what's happening in the world. Give it to us.

  • Zhu Min: Well, thank you. We at the IMF in the past few years

  • coupled with the labor unions particularly on these issues because these are

  • absolutely important. If we are looking for the job, there are

  • three trends underneath this apparent job situation.

  • I think we really need to go further to see the whole thing.

  • The first is, as Laura mentioned, is the cyclical cycle before the crisis which had

  • hit the advanced economies so bad. The second also is the structure issue

  • because the manufacturing moved to the East because labor is much cheaper

  • and education is pretty okay so we also saw that.

  • But the third issue also, we have to understand, that the whole job situation

  • is changing, for example, in the next 10, 20 years.

  • For example, you mentioned in next 20 years, India will provide 250 million

  • fresh labor into the market. Also, South Africa will provide 450

  • million fresh labor in the world market. And almost all advancing economies will

  • probably have an active fresh labor supply for the world.

  • So today, we talk about unemployment rate is very serious in the advancing

  • economies, but in the tomorrow, the future can be very, very different, so we have to

  • anticipate the whole thing change.

  • I think that's the first important issue. So we need to have a whole picture.

  • But the certain issues I will say in these situations, we have to, for the most

  • advanced economies, this is the issue we are today, really, the whole thing I will

  • say advanced economies, the growth strategy because you have to think about

  • it given the income level. You have to create a job.

  • With the job is what kind of job? What job can create a value which is high

  • enough to pay $20 to $30 per hour which would be paid in emerging markets with $2

  • to $3 per hour?

  • You have to have a very high value-added margin to support as a whole sector.

  • You need a whole growth strategy to create a confident new industry to balance

  • the global growth. I think this is the most important issue

  • rather than say get manufacturing back to the advancing economy.

  • I think that probably will not work. I will stop here.

  • Thank you. Maria Bartiromo: Thank you, Zhu Min.

  • Duncan Niederauer. Duncan Niederauer: Sure.

  • If I can just add a couple of perspectives from our vantage point.

  • I like where Phil started.

  • This is an opportunity for all of us. It's not a threat.

  • It's an opportunity. And I think if we think about the focus

  • on job creation, the impact that has on creating demand that some of you talked

  • about, then guess what, the pie gets bigger for all of us and it's good for

  • everybody. And I think from our vantage point at the

  • Exchange, what we focus on is good news. The job creation engine you'd want to

  • fill, it's about incentives for companies who are positioned to be able to do an IPO

  • and it's about some of the things Barry was talking about for companies who may be

  • too small to contemplate an IPO, and that's about getting them capital

  • and getting them access to revenues and investments like Steve's firm has,

  • et cetera. At the IPO level, even more great news:

  • $270 billion of issuance globally last year, 2011 set up to be a great year.

  • Just keep creating incentives for those companies to go public.

  • It's a great job creation engine. And we also know, as Barry said, most of

  • the jobs come from SMEs. Get them the capital.

  • Worldwide, they will create the jobs and we can get people back to work.

  • It's an opportunity. Philip J. Jennings: That's a good point

  • but why is capital on strike? Duncan Niederauer: Yes.

  • Philip J. Jennings: At $1.6 trillion sitting in back accounts in corporate

  • America?

  • America has to be rebuilt.

  • Without a new infrastructure, Laura, you're not going to bring those local jobs

  • to local communities.

  • Isn't it time, and Barry's getting an easy ride here, Barry, how are you going

  • to put that $1.6 trillion to work to help those local communities.

  • to build the schools, to train the workers, and to pay them decent wages?

  • Barry Silbert: Well, I think you have to separate kind of where this capital is.

  • And so I think you are referring to the capital that's on the balance sheets of

  • large companies,

  • right? Is that what you were referring to? Maria Bartiromo: Two trillion dollars on

  • balance sheets. Laura Tyson: Yes.

  • He is referring to the large companies. Barry Silbert: Right.

  • So yes, it will be great to see them deploy the capital in the United States.

  • But I think the point here is, and everybody's talking about it, this is not

  • an East versus West. This is collaborative.

  • And at the end of the day, the jobs that are being outsources, they are for

  • manufacturing jobs. They are manufacturing products that are

  • being designed, developed, innovated in the United States.

  • So if you create the environment where small businesses can get formed, if you

  • make it easier for whether it's the large corporations or individuals or private

  • equity firms investing in these companies, whether it's tax incentives or otherwise,

  • you will create the next Tesla car. You will create the next Google.

  • You will create the next Facebook that ultimately will create jobs worldwide,

  • I believe. Laura Tyson: Can I raise something that

  • Zhu Min mentioned which is very, very important?

  • Up to the crisis, there was virtually no evidence at all that outsourcing had

  • caused a net loss of jobs in the United States.

  • I've looked at this literature. I think it's a very interesting

  • and important question. Didn't do it.

  • What has happened in the United States is that we've had a restructuring of

  • manufacturing. We have technologically very sophisticated

  • manufacturing. We have a value chain which moved some of

  • the employment to other low-cost labor areas where you use people.

  • The problem with this is the nature of the jobs available to U.S. workers have

  • changed and there has been a loss of jobs in the middle.

  • I think we should distinguish here the structure of jobs.

  • It's not when demand is corrected, the problem is not a lack of jobs.

  • It's the lack of good jobs. And we have seen the polarization of

  • employment both in the U.S. and in the rest of the Western economies.

  • Growing jobs and wages, particularly wages at the top, with the skill levels

  • that are complementary to the modern technology, the middle being essentially

  • made redundant by the technology moving towards the bottom, this is a wage problem

  • and an education problem because we need to educate more people, as Zhu Min

  • is saying, so that they go with the growth strategy of the West to the high-end

  • technologically sophisticated jobs. The U.S. was the first advanced

  • industrial country, before we even used that term, to make high school education

  • compulsory for all. We don't do it yet.

  • We should make college education compulsory.

  • That is it. Maria Bartiromo: The idea of spending

  • money on education in an environment when you're talking about a $12 trillion

  • deficit is another major issue. Laura Tyson: There is a difference

  • between operational deficits and capital investment deficits.

  • I agree we need investment in infrastructure, investment in education --

  • Arianna Huffington: But you know, Laura, you may be absolutely right, speaking as

  • an economist, but when you come to the political reality, you see something

  • completely different. Laura Tyson: We won't get that is what

  • you're saying. Arianna Huffington: Yes,

  • exactly. I mean in terms of our political reality at the moment, the will is not there to do

  • what seems absolutely the right thing to do.

  • You mentioned infrastructure. Even if we are at full employment,

  • we would need to spend over $2 trillion according to the American Society of Civil

  • Engineers to update our infrastructure. And yet, the will is not there to do

  • something bold, like create a national infrastructure bank.

  • So politicians including the President talk about it, but in practice, it's not

  • happening. And you know, Lloyd George, the great

  • British prime minister, said, "You cannot jump across a chasm in two leaps."

  • And that's what we've been trying to do. Take small little leaps trying to do it

  • when [cross-talking] --

  • Maria Bartiromo: I want to share with you a fantastic poll from Facebook which you

  • will want to hear about. A quick comment from Naveen.

  • Naveen Jindal: Maria, I'd just like to elaborate on what Mr. Zhu said on the high

  • wage rates, and I think high wage rates in the West is also not helping the situation

  • because generally, I mean other things would follow market mechanisms of demand

  • and supply. Whereas wage rates do not really follow

  • demand and supply and continue to be high and continue to add to this problem.

  • Maria Bartiromo: And of course, [cross-talking] --

  • Laura Tyson: They're falling. I want to say in real terms in the United

  • States, median real wages are falling. Maria Bartiromo: Since unemployment

  • affects all of us, we asked Facebook to partner on a poll for this debate.

  • We asked, "Is the West in decline?" Look at these numbers.

  • Forty-eight percent said yes. Twenty-seven percent said no.

  • Twenty-five percent were not sure. Reaction from the front row?

  • Amy Gutmann. Amy Gutmann: Let's look at just some

  • numbers about unemployment to put the relationship between unemployment

  • and education in perspective.

  • At the height of the great recession, under five percent of college graduates

  • were unemployed in the United States. Over double that of high school graduates

  • and then another 50 percent more than that for those who didn't have a high school

  • degree. So even when jobs are at their lowest ebb,

  • college graduates do extraordinarily well in the West and that's true in the East as

  • well, and a key to this driving innovation economy is going to be to have an educated

  • workforce. Maria Bartiromo: We will get to

  • education. We will move on.

  • Thank you so much for your comments, everybody.

  • CNBC of course is all about actionable solutions and that's what we want right

  • now. Let's talk solutions.

  • Arianna, most important solution, most important action to be taken now.

  • Arianna Huffington: Well, the most important solution and the one that

  • actually people can do something about is to recognize that democracy is not

  • a spectator sport. So everybody can do something right now.

  • And in fact, my source of optimism comes from the fact that if you go around the

  • country, people are doing the right thing in their communities.

  • People who cannot find jobs the conventional ways, for example, are going

  • to xc.com and turning their hobbies or their passions into a way to earn

  • a living. People who can't get jobs are coming

  • together, as Seth Reams did in Portland, Oregon, creating sites like

  • wevegottimetohelp.org and helping others in their communities.

  • So there has been an outpouring of creativity and generosity all around the

  • country, and those of us in the media need to actually put a spotlight on what

  • is working in the country in order to help scale it up.

  • I'm less optimistic about government finding the will to do the right things,

  • including a payroll tax holiday, including massive infrastructure investment,

  • including doing something about immigration.

  • We need the kind of Visa Startup Act that would allow entrepreneurs with good ideas

  • from all around the world to come and create jobs in the States and in Europe.

  • Maria Bartiromo: So the people get together and working on immigration

  • another major component. Naveen, solutions.

  • Naveen Jindal: Well, solutions, I talk in the respect of in India.

  • We need to firstly provide quality education to our youth and for which,

  • we have just passed a Right to Education Act. And also, we need to increase our

  • graduates coming out of colleges. Presently, only 15 percent of the

  • graduates from school have a college education.

  • We need to double that, and for that, we need to open many, many thousands of

  • universities and colleges and also give people employable skills, like vocational

  • training institutes, and again, to cater to almost 200 million new workforce

  • because we have a large population of the youth and obviously, we can collaborate

  • with the West. We would need help from the West also in

  • educating our youth, in creating this capacity building in our country.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Laura Tyson, solution. Laura Tyson: So I want do macro and then

  • the third is structural. On the macro side, I think a number of

  • people agree here a lot of the unemployment, probably almost all but

  • a percentage point of the unemployment problem in the U.S. is a demand problem.

  • It's a business cycle problem. It's very, very severe.

  • I think what the President said last night on the importance of investing

  • and research, the importance of investing in infrastructure, the importance of

  • investing in education at the same time that we do something meaningful on the

  • medium-term deficit is exactly the right policy.

  • The politics, I leave it to Arianna. She thinks the political model is broken.

  • Maybe it is. I think the economic solution

  • is absolutely clear and I think economists from the left and the right in the United

  • States agree on that basic solution. So that's on the macro side.

  • On the structural side, I will just say we are going to talk about that in the next

  • section, but think about the education issue from the U.S. point of view.

  • It's not a great university problem. We have the best universities in the

  • world. There are wonderful new ones developing in

  • the rest of the world but people come from around the world.

  • There is no issue with America's great universities.

  • We have highly diverse set of community colleges and alternative technical

  • training institutes. We have the for-profit institutions now

  • which are training people. Our problem is a breakdown much,

  • much earlier. Maria Bartiromo: K-12.

  • Laura Tyson: In the United States, it is K-12.

  • And my most negative thing I'm going to say here right now is the state and local

  • government disaster in the United States, which is not being discussed enough

  • perhaps here, is a disaster for education.

  • So there we have the great universities not being able to tap in to the talent,

  • the potential talent pool that's lost in fourth grade in the United States.

  • Maria Bartiromo: And we will get to that. Philip Jennings on solutions.

  • Philip J. Jennings: Change the rules of the game.

  • A new political priority on job creation. The G20 has a Jobs Pact before it which

  • was agreed by 150 nations. Make it work.

  • We have to have a policy of inclusive growth.

  • The crash was brought about by an economic model of exclusivity.

  • We need an inclusive growth model. Working people have to be able to find

  • their voice at work once again. Collective bargaining should be the place

  • where standards are set. We want to see more fairness in the

  • distribution of the wealth which we see to put the demand back into the economy,

  • which Laura mentioned. We need active labor market policies.

  • You can't leave this to the market. Those countries which survived this

  • crisis best had active labor market policies focused on keeping people in

  • work. Finally, we need a universal social

  • protection platform.

  • Eight out of 10 workers have no social protection whatsoever today.

  • You build in that social, protection,

  • you build in demand, you build in stability and you build in hope.

  • Finally, stop this rush to the exit with these austerity programs that we are

  • seeing from government. They are going to do more harm for jobs

  • than good. What we are seeing in a number of

  • countries is going to aggravate unemployment.

  • Stop the rush to the exit.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Stop the austerity programs.

  • Very provocative statement and we will get to that and get some reaction from our

  • audience. I want to get one reaction though from

  • this very global-minded informed audience.

  • Based on what we have heard, if you had to allocate money to any region in 2011,

  • who would allocate money to Europe?

  • Who would allocate money to the United States?

  • Asia?

  • And there of course is our majority. Reactions?

  • Steve Pagliuca.

  • Stephen Pagliuca: Well, I think in allocation of money, it really is more

  • a microeconomic problem. I think there are great opportunities in

  • Europe. There are great opportunities in the U.S.

  • and in Asia as well. Obviously, there are trends.

  • There is huge growth in India and Asia that's not going to stop, but the question

  • is what is the price to that growth and how sustainable is it?

  • The panel has talked about the fact that the United States and Europe have legal

  • systems. They have systems for companies to grow.

  • And the real issue that I fear and what Laura was talking about is that the

  • structural unemployment is higher than what you're talking about here.

  • And so we need the Manhattan Project on the structural unemployment problem

  • because we are not going to solve it. We are not going to solve it with the

  • current approaches. Arianna is absolutely right.

  • The politicians talk about it but we don't solve it.

  • There are solutions in front of us. We've invested our country's deficit in

  • a lot of short-term programs that aren't having benefit for the long-term.

  • So the money has got to go back into education, structural reform in education,

  • which we're going to talk about next. But if that structural gap is as large,

  • and I think it is, we have a real challenge on our hands and we're not going

  • to fix unemployment until we fix that structural gap.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Before we move on, Tulsi Tanti, quick comment.

  • Tulsi Tanti: Yes. It's the solution point of view, I feel

  • it's a very great opportunity in the Western part of the world is there.

  • We have to revisit the industriesuniversity sit together.

  • Which segment of the industries can be allocated in thoseand to make a market

  • creation? Because the next generation of the

  • industries are growing and those great opportunity for Western world is there

  • because when we are going in India and China, it's not just for the cheaper

  • manpower but we need a lot of 360 degrees infrastructure technologies,

  • universities, low cost of the fund resources, and the export opportunity.

  • I greatly see the renewable industry has a great opportunity to mitigate the

  • climate at the same time to create a great manufacturing base in the America

  • and Europe. It is possible because it's a high --

  • high-value product is there and high engineering value is there so that can be

  • there. It's not going to be required to go to the

  • India and China. It's not required.

  • But the whole world needs this and that's that new mechanisms will be developed

  • and new markets should be market created first in the home market.

  • And if there is no home market and just we are dependent on Asian market, no job

  • creation will be sustained. So that is the main focus area.

  • The change in safety is required. The second is on a value chain.

  • There is a sum pocket of this segment can be distributed in different geography,

  • whether it is a technology, whether it is a manufacturing, whether it is a service,

  • and to allocate like that, I think we can make a more balanced and inclusive growth

  • of the whole world rather than just at West and East.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Once again, we learn how connected we really are.

  • Thank you very much. That is it for Part 1 of the debate.

  • Many thanks to our advocates and their wonderful insights, Kiran Mazumdar-Shaw

  • and Barry Silbert. Thank you very much.

  • Next up, where are the jobs? What are the skill sets required for

  • those jobs? We tackle the skills gap.

  • This was another problem addressed by President Obama last night.

  • Let's hear what he had to say.

  • President Barack Obama: Nations like China and India realized that with some

  • changes of their own, they could compete in this new world.

  • And so they started educating their children earlier and longer, with greater

  • emphasis on math and science. So yes, the world has changed.

  • The competition for jobs is real.

  • But this shouldn't discourage us.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Education is failing industry, motion two.

  • Even with high unemployment, businesses say they cannot find the skilled workforce

  • they need.

  • David Arkless: We got the wrong people in the wrong place at the wrong time.

  • Peter Loscher: We are urgently looking for highly qualified engineers which we

  • can't find.

  • Tristan Wilkinson: STEM subjects, Science, Technology, Engineering,

  • and Math, have just become unfashionable. Ben Jealous: We are not training and we

  • are not even really clear what jobs we should train them for.

  • Ian Cheshire: But I don't think business could sit there and simply throw rocks at

  • the educational establishment. We actually have to get involved and say,

  • "This is what we need and this is how we can help make it happen."

  • Sir David Bell: What we need is an education system that trains people to be

  • flexible, responsive, and able to change what they are doing maybe several times in

  • the course of their working life.

  • John Studzinski: But the most successful companies are successful not just because

  • they train people well but they retrain people well.

  • Maria Bartiromo: On stage to argue for the motion that education is failing

  • industry, Jeff Joerres, Manpower CEO. And against the motion, Amy Gutmann,

  • the president of the University of Pennsylvania.

  • [Applause]

  • Maria Bartiromo: Jeff, your time starts now.

  • Jeffrey Joerres: Thanks. Well-educated people create jobs.

  • What creates those well-educated people are universities, and what we are finding

  • is that universities are not producing the amount of people coming out or, for that

  • matter, the quality in order for us to create this flow of jobs.

  • Let me give you a few examples, a U.S. one.

  • Sixty-seven percent of all high school students go on to college.

  • Only half of those can finish their degrees in six years.

  • Twenty-five percent of the low-income students can finish their degree, and 20

  • percent of the African-American community finish any kind of secondary

  • and post-secondary degree. So what we see is not enough and not

  • enough of the right kind. Why do I say not enough of the right

  • kind? High unemployment and the highest level of

  • job openings which is a massive conundrum, a skills gap of not having the right

  • skills at the right time produced by university systems.

  • Having said that, what is going on in STEM, the Science, the Technologies,

  • Engineering, and Math, is outstanding and is absolutely needed.

  • What is missing is all the way from K-4, all the way into university are things

  • like intellectual curiosity,

  • problem solving, empathy, and collaboration. It is those things that create the basis

  • for education to move on to be lifelong learning.

  • If we do not fix education system, technical schools as well as others,

  • we will not be able to create enough people to satisfy what jobs are required.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Jeff, thank you very much.

  • Amy, the other side of that argument. Amy Gutmann: Thank you, Maria, and thank

  • you, Jeff. We live in a global innovation economy,

  • and universities are at the heart of it. We invest billions in innovative research

  • and we educate young people who combine a breadth of skills with an in-depth

  • knowledge of a subject, what an MIT professor aptly called a "T-shaped

  • intellect."

  • CEOs love to hire T-shaped individuals. They are creative and collaborative

  • and they also have specialized skills. And those graduates from America's top

  • universities drive the future economy that none of us can yet imagine.

  • That is why the United States remains the single most sought after global

  • destination for higher education. Last year alone, 700,000 foreign students

  • came to study in universities in the United States driven by a 30 percent

  • increase in Chinese students. India and China are avidly competing with

  • the American model of higher education. We welcome that competition.

  • We can learn from them just as they have learned from us.

  • We also should reverse the visa restrictions that deport foreign students

  • who graduate from American universities with advanced degrees.

  • We, the Land of Liberty, send them home even if they want to stay here.

  • That's a mistake. Higher education prepares students.

  • K-12 education is failing us. We must invest in infrastructure and in

  • K-12 education. Thank you.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Thank you very much, Amy.

  • And you brought up the issue of immigration as part of the failure here in

  • terms of education. We've heard both sides.

  • Challengers, who is right?

  • Arianna Huffington: Well, I think in many ways, Jeff is right that our education

  • system is failing us, but it doesn't start at the college level.

  • It starts at the K-12 level. And it starts at a way in which we are

  • both educating our children and the way we are minimizing the key importance of

  • teacher effectiveness. Teachers are the most important thing in

  • our children's lives. And yet, what do we have here?

  • We have an impossibility for firing bad teachers in the United States.

  • If you are a doctor, one in every 57 doctors loses his or her medical license.

  • If you are a lawyer, one in 97 lawyers. If you are a teacher, one in 2,500

  • teachers is ever fired for being a bad teacher.

  • Now, that is not sustainable because if you are going to imbue children with

  • a love of science or the love of math or the love of English, you have to have these

  • great teachers in third and fourth grade. And one last thing, at the university

  • level is the student loan problem. We now have $900 billion in student

  • loans, more than our credit card debt. And you have students graduating with

  • a student loan burden of over $20,000 and not being able to get jobs, and that's

  • another huge crisis we are facing. Maria Bartiromo: Well, you are talking

  • about students getting to the university level unprepared.

  • Naveen. Naveen Jindal: I would say, I mean I do

  • not really disagree with either Jeff or Amy.

  • I just like to present a new point, and that is that we also observe that not many

  • engineers or highly skilled people, they do not want to work in the field.

  • They do not want to work in a steel plant or the power plant which are mostly in

  • remote sites, remote areas, or building dams.

  • They would much rather work for a software company or a consultancy company living in

  • big cities. So I think that paradigm also needs to

  • change because until these people are willing, and these are the areas where

  • growth is happening, where opportunities are there in the job market.

  • So good people have to be willing to and keen to work in these areas.

  • Maria Bartiromo: We want to get to an audience question, but I wonder if,

  • Philip Jennings, you would like to address an issue that Arianna brought up, given you

  • are a leader of so many workers.

  • We can't fire teachers, bad teachers? Philip J. Jennings: Arianna,

  • you're heading in the wrong direction. This is not going to help the discussion

  • about improving schooling, about improving universities if you put the finger of

  • blame on teachers who you can't fire.

  • Arianna Huffington: Well, it's not either/or.

  • It's not either/or. Philip J. Jennings: Do me a favor.

  • I know the teaching community, they are the angels of our societies,

  • teachers. You get a good teacher and those people are dedicated --

  • Arianna Huffington: That's exactly what I said.

  • I said precisely because teachers, it's very important to have this debate

  • precisely because teachers are so important, we need to be able to fire bad

  • teachers in order to reward good teachers. Philip J. Jennings: Arianna, please let

  • me finish. Amy Gutmann: Arianna, Philip, could I --

  • Philip J. Jennings: Can I just finish? Amy Gutmann: Absolutely.

  • Philip J. Jennings: I don't think it's right to put the finger of blame on the

  • teaching community who are dedicated to their kids, dedicated to their students,

  • and to have a slash and burn approach to the education profession I think is the

  • wrong way. I think Jeff is getting a free pass in

  • the sense that when I talk to my members, they say the skills that we have aren't

  • being used.

  • They also tell me the training budgets are being cut back.

  • The governments, we talked about civil servants use, they say, "Philip,

  • austerity packages mean that the education budget is getting cut."

  • So please, I'm with Amy on this one. Jeffrey Joerres: But I don't want to get

  • a free pass. Philip J. Jennings: Okay.

  • Jeffrey Joerres: Because the fact is whether we like it or not, the world in

  • business is moving very quickly. And if we can't have an iterative process

  • instead of maybe an episodic training process, what will come out is antiquated

  • skills or not as finely tuned. So I think it's the relationship between

  • government, businesses, and educators to make it a more relevant output to get

  • people to work faster. Philip J. Jennings: But Jeff, how strong

  • are those short-term concerns on a business leader with the Wall Street

  • community that wants to see a performance every quarter?

  • Does that help? Jeffrey Joerres: There are hedge funds

  • who want to see that, but you know what? The companies I talk to are thinking

  • about five and 10 years. They are not thinking about quarters.

  • They are looking at an educated workforce that has the ability to have lifelong

  • learning that is taught in some areas. Philip J. Jennings: Are we ready for

  • lifelong learning? Jeffrey Joerres: No.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Amy? Amy Gutmann: Look at the facts about what

  • drives the economy because I think otherwise, we are going to talk across

  • purposes. First of all, creative and collaborative

  • skills coupled with in-depth knowledge is what drives this economy, and those are

  • the first kids to be hired. Secondly, we don't need to talk about the

  • downside of teachers in K-12. Let's talk about the huge upside.

  • Here is a concrete progressive proposal that could unite everybody.

  • Let us reward successful teachers with a true career ladder so that there is high

  • status in being a K-12 teacher.

  • That would make a huge difference. There are millions of college students

  • who would love to enter K-12 education. Many of them at Penn, Teach for America

  • gets them. They leave after three years.

  • There is no career ladder there. Let's do it.

  • That will propel the innovative economy. Where training is for the jobs of today,

  • education is for the jobs of today and tomorrow.

  • And then when industry hires them, they won't fire them.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Very smart insights. Arianna Huffington: Amy is absolutely

  • right but let me just say one quick thing, which is that right now, getting a good

  • education at the K-12 level, if you are a poor or middle class child in America,

  • it has become a matter of chance, literally lotteries, in order to be able to escape

  • dysfunctional schools and go to good charter schools, which is often where poor

  • kids or even middle class kids now can get a decent education.

  • And this is not acceptable because you cannot produce enough students with their

  • requisite skills to go to college. Laura Tyson: I think I would actually go

  • to the audience at this point because I am a little concerned that the conversation

  • here is really too U.S.-centric, all right?

  • We have -- no, listen. There are lots of different school

  • systems throughout Europe that perform at the K-12 level better than the U.S.

  • There are lots of countries in Europe, Germany, Denmark.

  • I used to hear two years ago, three years ago, people were talking about Denmark as

  • a successful economy that combined security with flexibility and high levels

  • of training in the workforce. Germany, we know, has been able to

  • survive this recession and basically rebuild its manufacturing strength with

  • very high cost, technically trained workers.

  • So let's not get too hung up -- yes, I agree with Amy completely.

  • That's what the U.S. should do. We should definitely do.

  • But I do think we need to talk about the structure of education in countries where

  • it's working and how it has to change because the technology and globalization

  • are changing the skill bases. So when you look for workers in Europe,

  • what are you seeing? What needs to be done there?

  • I'm a little too concerned we are doing too much U.S. stuff here.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Well, I mean the extent of education is also a piece of the

  • conversation. In the U.S., students are in school five

  • days a week, seven hours a day. In China, six days a week, 10 hours

  • a day.

  • Question from the audience. Laura Tyson: What about Europe?

  • Male Speaker: I'm from media. The work institution, what I look to

  • is that the East and the West, we from the developing nations have totally

  • a different approach. You are looking for graduates,

  • high technologies. We don't need that.

  • Where we are, 60 percent dependent on agriculture.

  • We need basic education for our kids so that they can continue in agriculture.

  • The investment ought to be that of based in, as he says, about rural agriculture

  • employment so that the farmer can do his own agriculture, a part-time service,

  • and then live happily in the village. But this high technology I mean which we

  • are getting from West to the East, I think it's creating a lot of problems to our

  • developing nations. I think there is a limit.

  • I think you, most of you, look at what Mahatma Gandhi said.

  • Go back to the villages and try to limit the needs and wants, including education,

  • then there will be a solution, not this high tech

  • Maria Bartiromo: More questions from the audience.

  • [Cross-talking] --

  • Naveen Jindal: -- Indian youth and they want the best of education, even in the

  • villages. And they do not -- they see, watch the

  • same TV. They even watch CNBC so they have very

  • high expectations.

  • And I think even there is a serious lack of accountability in a lot of teachers in

  • India. We really need to improve the quality of

  • education. That's a big challenge for every

  • government, every state government, and the government is trying to pursue that.

  • We really give now, with the Right to Education, also improving the quality of

  • education and giving our youth employable skills is very, very important and we are

  • working very seriously on that and involving private sector in a very big

  • way. Government is giving many incentives to

  • the private sector in India to involve in training of the youth for giving

  • employable skills, and we can learn a lot, especially the community college concept

  • of the U.S., and we are trying to bring that to India and that would help a lot in

  • training of our youth. And our youth is very, very ambitious

  • and they want the best [cross-talking] --

  • Laura Tyson: And you don't need an either/or.

  • It seems to me that having higher value-added agriculture is the future.

  • Having higher value-added services is the future.

  • You want a technically trained, sophisticated group of workers whether

  • they are doing agriculture in the countryside or information services in

  • Bangalore. So I go back to my notion of the developed

  • countries, college education for all, community college very, very important as

  • economies develop from emerging market economies into [cross-talking]

  • -- Arianna Huffington: But also, when we

  • look at the system in China, which obviously, we tend to celebrate because of

  • their incredible prioritization that's being put on education there, but it is so

  • much rote memorization that is affecting the ability of students to be creative,

  • to innovate, and to expand their own circles of concern and empathy, and all these

  • things are just as critical when it comes to education.

  • It's not just about skills. It's also about what kind of human being

  • do you become.

  • Laura Tyson: Arianna, I don't know if we are going to be able too long to say that

  • somehow or other, the educated students of India or China are less innovative than

  • American students. I really think that is something that

  • these are very sophisticated -- the students going on to the best universities

  • and colleges and India and China are extremely sophisticated and innovative.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Question from the audience.

  • Very quickly, Dennis Nally. Dennis M. Nally: Maria, I think this

  • is really an interesting discussion. And at the risk of oversimplifying,

  • I don't think this is about the East and the West.

  • In a recent Global CEO Survey that we conducted, over 1,200 CEOs from all around

  • the world participated in the survey and basically said 2/3 of them believe there

  • is a real shortage wherever you are operating with skilled workers.

  • And so I think you've got to take it back to individual countries and understand

  • exactly what is driving that issue. And what business is saying, I believe,

  • is it has to be a collaborative effort working with governments, working with the

  • educational institutions to solve that problem in those respective countries.

  • If you overgeneralize, I don't think you get anywhere with this discussion.

  • Maria Bartiromo: We want solutions. The conversation is getting heated.

  • Let's look for action.

  • Solutions now, Philip Jennings.

  • Philip J. Jennings: We know where the jobs of tomorrow are.

  • We know that when you look at the progression of employment in Europe,

  • in the U.S., and other parts of the world, there is a growing shift towards the

  • services industry and knowledge intensive.

  • The solution must be that we have to gear up our education, our training, and our

  • employers that they can meet those needs not just to give them the basics but

  • continually through one's working life. We have to have a strong commitment to

  • lifelong learning. Learning and training at work should not

  • stop at the age of 18, 25, or 30. We need a new social contract, a new

  • social contract that every worker has access to relearning and to reeducation.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Where does that relearning come from?

  • The corporate sector? Government?

  • Who is providing this retraining? Philip J. Jennings: Government has to do

  • a much better job in looking at what labor and manpower trends are to identify where

  • the problems are.

  • Government has a role to provide infrastructure.

  • The private sector has an enormous role to play as well in terms of the innovation

  • requirements that they have.

  • We can't have a -- you can't just discuss this with government without business

  • and you can't discuss with business without labor.

  • I would like to see a learning representative in every workplace on the

  • planet that that simple worker could put his hand up and say, "I am being trained

  • for three months." Maria Bartiromo: Solutions from the

  • audience. Yes, sir?

  • Male Speaker: Well, in looking at models that work, in response to Laura's

  • question, I think it would be good to look at Finland.

  • They have come out top of the list for the last 10 years virtually, per the OECD's

  • PISA reports. And they do it by investing in education,

  • also starting with child education at the very early stages.

  • They have a system of social partnership. It's not based upon firing teachers or

  • based on motivating teachers. I could make one suggestion from that to

  • the U.S.

  • In 2006, you paid 25 hedge fund managers the same as you paid all of the teachers

  • at New York City for two years. So would those people in the audience who

  • are hedge fund managers think about giving some of that money or accepting taxation,

  • which will put it back into teachers' pocket and get incentives going the right

  • way. Maria Bartiromo: Good comment.

  • Onto Carrefour. Lars, do you have a solution?

  • You are the largest employer in Europe. Lars Olofsson: Thank you.

  • Well, listen, first of all, when we are talking about demand, what is all about

  • demand? It's about growth.

  • Now, when we talk about growth, it's sure that if we divide us up into West and East

  • that East, they have a let's call it a demographic advantage, so in terms of

  • quantitative growth, I don't think that the West can do anything.

  • However, it's all about value. Now, when we talk about value growth,

  • and I think that's the way forward in Europe, what are the levers?

  • Well, long term, I think it has been addressed.

  • It's all about education. It is about the research and development.

  • It is about giving, helping the small and medium-sized enterprises.

  • Now, short term, that is the problem in Europe.

  • How can we get back in growth? Because without growth, we will not be

  • able to absorb the unemployment, okay? So the question is what do we do short

  • term? Today, we are all talking about rigor.

  • Well, we need to increase the taxes. We need to get our costs down, et cetera.

  • That is not going to generate growth. So my question is how can we have

  • a rigorous growth? That's what it's all about because that's

  • what we have to do. And here, we have to think about how can

  • we create value? Every good cannot be transferred from

  • West to the East. This is rather an opportunity.

  • Now, so my question is actually how do we help?

  • How do we help Europe in short and medium term?

  • Because without a rigorous growth, I'm sorry, I will be -- a tendency to be

  • pretty pessimistic about the future of Europe.

  • Maria Bartiromo: First, we've got to see growth before we can address the issue of

  • education is what you're saying. Lars Olofsson: Yes.

  • Maria Bartiromo: John Studzinski, solutions.

  • John Studzinski: The reason why, and LauraGermany, the reason why Germany

  • works so well is that at the supervisory board, you have 50 percent of the

  • supervisory board management, 50 percent labor, and they have to live with each

  • other as strange bedfellows and therefore, they take several years to work through

  • issues and problems strategically. And I think if we had more of this

  • locked-on collaboration around the world where labor -- and even in the United

  • States, labor is not enough at the table when it comes to long-term planning.

  • Put it very simply, we have to change in ethos.

  • We have to take labor away from being an expense item on the P&L and we have to

  • make it a long-term capital asset. If we can do that and make it a long-term

  • capital asset, which implies the points that were made about education, the worker

  • will retain their own dignity, which I think is the most important.

  • Philip J. Jennings: I think the worker has to have that voice and has to have

  • that opportunity. I'm please to say with Carrefour, as

  • a UNI Global unit, we have a social dialogue at the global level with the company.

  • We also have the same conversation with Manpower and 40 other companies covering

  • something like 10 million workers. This affords you the opportunity to get

  • away from the daily skirmish but into much more strategic thinking about what the

  • employment projections are. And those people actually have

  • a genuineness, an authenticity about them. They know what's going on.

  • They know where management is not performing.

  • That worker's voice needs to be heard, and I'm pleased to see that there is a strong

  • plug for thean involvement of working people in these kinds of decisions.

  • Maria Bartiromo: That's the person on the ground.

  • Philip J. Jennings: It does work. The person on the ground needs to find

  • his voice. Maria Bartiromo: Zhu Min with a solution.

  • Arianna Huffington: One very simple thing.

  • One very simple thing at the K-12 level is to increase parental involvement because

  • right now, parents very often in schools are seen as the intruders.

  • And if parents are not involved in their children's education, it's going to get

  • really hard. And at the government level, we need to

  • see the opportunity cost of where the resources go compared to where they should

  • be going if we are going to do some nation building here at home.

  • Right now in America, we are spending $2.8 billion a week fighting

  • a non-winnable war in Afghanistan.

  • That money could come back home and rebuild some of those collapsing

  • infrastructures when it comes to our schools.

  • Maria Bartiromo: Education begins at home.

  • Zhu Min, solutions. Zhu Min: Laura has a very important

  • point, which is a mandatory higher education.

  • I think it is absolutely important because if you think about job, what kind of job?

  • It's the competitiveness.

  • If you want to get competitiveness for the advancing economies, they have to move

  • into upper... You want the move in upperand not into

  • the small section but in the massive scale sense.

  • Barry mentioned you have a Facebook or Google here and more.

  • You have iPod. You have Louis Vuitton.

  • But even iPod is made in China, right? I mean those are not enough to create job

  • for the advancing economies today. So when we talk about education system

  • today, it's not only to fix the problem in today but looking for the future.

  • You really need a massive educational reform, create the hope high education

  • system so that you would be able to bring the people able to work in high-end

  • industry. I'll give you a number.

  • China produces six million college graduate students every year.

  • Among them, one million are engineers.

  • In China, …they are not enough for the growth of a Chinese economy in the future.

  • What happened in the advance economies? Laura Tyson: And as the President often

  • points out, the U.S. has actually had declined in this respect.

  • We used to be number one in terms of college completion rates and college

  • enrollment rates for the college-age population.

  • We are number 14, number 16, number 17. We are not -- we are falling behind the

  • need to, for the next 10 years, take students and give them the education they

  • need and the technology that they need [cross-talking] --

  • Maria Bartiromo: Well, Tom Friedman had a great quote that we showed earlier.

  • When was the last time you saw a 12-year-old say, "I really want to be an

  • engineer?" Laura Tyson: So there has been a race.

  • The demand for skills has gotten way out of line with [cross-talking]

  • -- skills. Maria Bartiromo: Exactly. Solution.

  • Kiran Mazumdar-Shaw: Yes. I just wanted to comment that when we

  • talk about the skill deficit, it's again an employability debate and I think there,

  • I really want to subscribe to an internship-based training program within

  • corporates because I think that's very, very powerful and that addresses both the

  • training deficit and the kind of employability issue.

  • Maria Bartiromo: This is a great idea. We've heard some great insights.

  • Thank you very much. We are out of time.

  • Thank you so much to all of our contributors and our great ideas from the

  • audience, including of course our panelists and our advocates.

  • Please go to cnbc.com to find out when the program will air on CNBC globally.

  • I'm Maria Bartiromo from CNBC's Davos Debate at the World Economic Forum in

  • Switzerland. [Applause]

Male Speaker: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CNBC Debate

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