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  • that we will export days in many ways want trying to figure out some of the deepest implications of what it means to be a human being.

  • When we first formed the CIA for the exhibition Fellowship last year, one of the discussion one of the very first discussions we had our meeting was one that dealt with how we see ourselves today, how we in our society, and especially if students have lost something very safe about ourselves and many currents of thought.

  • And we'll certainly, in our hyper rationalize be constructed.

  • Both modern world one loses sight of the meaning of not only those things which are external to us, but in the process.

  • We fail to understand the very core of our being.

  • Many of you will know that recently, Dr Jordan Peterson has faced an immense it of controversy precisely for questioning the dogmas of our age.

  • And yet he has also stressed the importance of the divine individual and the Christian concept off the logos which I will allow.

  • Our speakers elaborated on today.

  • A dear friend had told me once that what fundamentally divides orthodoxy from any other kind of ideology is precisely this the dignity of the divine individual and what this means for us as spiritual and physical beings.

  • And so I'm immensely excited to hear what our Panelists have to say.

  • And so I'd like to introduce each of our Panelists, starting with Father Theodore Prosky Populace, who is a jump back idiot.

  • The Orthodox School of Theology at Trinity College.

  • Last night's tricky part, of course, on the human person in Orthodox deal and with extradition.

  • And in many ways, this is something that touches upon or introduces the very core of what's being discussed.

  • A date.

  • What is the individual?

  • What does it mean to be human?

  • And he is also quite a positive presence at our participation fellowship, and we certainly look forward to hearing this perspective tonight.

  • Jonathan Joe is a very well known icon, harbor from Combat, as well as an editor for the Orthodox Arts Journal.

  • Many of us were familiar with Jonathan and his work prior to this, and so it's a great pleasure having you here tonight, and indeed it is entirely appropriate.

  • Just this past Sunday, the Orthodox Church celebrated in the spirit of unity, the Sunday of Orthodoxy, the celebration of our triumph over iconoclast.

  • The tradition of iconography and your fox tradition is one of the geology, and I'm very pleased that an expert on the matter is with us here today.

  • And many of you may be interested to hear Jonathan's online discussion with Dr Peterson, the most recent one being concerned with one of the most controversial political symbols of this day.

  • The metaphysics of happy Dr Jordan v.

  • Peterson is a professor of psychology here at the University of Toronto, and I think it goes without saying that the activism of Dr Peterson has inspired many in the room today.

  • Many who would have previously, perhaps not even considered looking into the type of concepts what you're going to be discussing today.

  • Myself and many others have been deeply moved by not only Dr Peterson's insight on matters of a political nature, but also in his insight in human nature.

  • The title of this discussion was influenced by Dr Peterson's usage of the constant of the Christian concept of logos and what that means for us as individuals.

  • I'd like to thank Dr Peterson for joining us, and we're greatly looking forward to hearing more of your insight on this map.

  • Last but not least, all the Jeffrey Ready who is a code, a record of the Orthodox School of Theology, the chaplain of Orthodox Christian publisher and the Paris streets that the Holy Mary Berry's Office mission, located at Trinity Chapel.

  • From the very creation of our associate last year, Jeffy has continuously blowing our minds and and start understanding not only of our spiritual life but of ourselves as human beings.

  • Apart from his remarkable pastoral qualities, his wealth of knowledge and perspective has needed only natural that we would offer his perspective on this panel tonight.

  • I'd like to thank Father Jeffrey for his work and greatly look forward to hearing his perspectives.

  • So the format for the discussion today will be basically that each of our Panelists will steep for your time, and this will be followed by a question and answer period.

  • Each of you will have received you part, and each row has about two pens.

  • So for the duration of the discussion, you can write down your questions and passing up the price, and then we'll try to get through his menu.

  • But it's possible by the end of the night.

  • And with that I'd like to welcome Father Theodore for us.

  • Give up listed podium to begin our discussion.

  • Okay, so there's not going to mind willing.

  • That's reserved for Jeffrey thinking to your c o d.

  • For asking me to come and to be up here on the stage with people that I kind of feel feel.

  • But I appreciate the invitation.

  • Eso I was told to speak for like 10 to 15 minutes about what it means to be human person in the Orthodox tradition, so I don't know how impossible that is.

  • Um, but Live just mentioned that in the past two days on Sunday, you celebrated in the Orthodox tradition Sunday Orthodoxy, first Sunday in Lent.

  • For those of you who don't know what that is, we're going to celebrate that day.

  • We celebrate the return of the holy Icons into the church.

  • Now a lot of people been north of searches know that the church is full of icons and they wonder, Well, when was their return and why was there return considering?

  • Have you ever not?

  • Of course, Christians have had images in their churches and in their places of worship in the very beginning.

  • But there was a time that there was an impression off Theo idea of using images as it was considered the idolatry in the church.

  • And there was a faction within the church that fought against this, and for almost 100 years icons were burned, destroyed on taking out of churches.

  • And he's only seven Ecumenical Council that they were returned.

  • Of course, why do we celebrate this on Sunday?

  • Orthodoxy in what we call it Sunday orthodoxy is because those who were the components of icons and, of course, all modern Orthodox Christians today knew that the attack on the depiction of Christ was an attack on the incarnation itself.

  • On the idea that Christ is an actual being actually existed, actually lived lives.

  • He was an actual historical figure within a certain time and not a figment of our imagination, as some people today would say.

  • And this means that when we speak about God and when you speak about Trinity, when you speak about the second person eternity through the sun, the locals, as we're speaking of tonight we're speaking about a very specific person, and that is in contrast to many of the discussions that we see today both in the Public Forum online supposed like this, where many people would like to think of God as an abstract fourth indiscretions.

  • And I would say, for historical, ancient Christianity, God is not an abstract.

  • God is an actual person.

  • There's an objective reality there prices an objective person things a certain way, speaks of certainly act a certain way, even look a certain way.

  • And so we could depicting it icons.

  • Another reason why I start with this, and I kind of, you know, I begin My thoughts is, uh, because there is a little bit of a contrast between many religions and orthodoxy.

  • This is not this a generalization.

  • But as generalizations go in many religions, whether they be Christian or not, um, the concept of God or the constant divine usually centers around the idea off.

  • Word of God, God made text.

  • There are usually writings about this and writings that are usually very ancient there passed down, and the text is usually what is focused on.

  • Even amongst many Christian denominations, it's all about the text.

  • However, the Orthodox tradition.

  • It is not about the word defendant text, but rather about the word becoming flesh being.

  • And so our faith is not based on a text, but rather on a deep, mystical experience of the Risen Lord.

  • Bro.

  • Time you're going to say, Well, we read the Bible to write, use the Bible.

  • We venerate the Bible.

  • We have it in very high regard.

  • However, for ancient decided, I love that.

  • Let's start to, um, New York.

  • Um, when we, uh when we speak about Christ, speak about God, we speak about a living tradition.

  • Priceline found a book.

  • Neither did he found the philosophy.

  • Rather, he found it.

  • Very real community, living community and your church last 2000 years is this living community that has never stopped has never ceased to exist.

  • It was never a time where it did not exist.

  • We have no beginning.

  • We have no reformer.

  • We have no founder.

  • We have no school of thoughts, but rather we exist from the very beginning.

  • So the reason why I say this is because our concept of God and our concept of our relationship you and is a very intimate one and one that has been living for the last 1000 years.

  • So going back to the idea of incarnation of theology, of icons.

  • If we are to say that God is real, you actually exists.

  • If you don't believe in not more than just talk.

  • Never.

  • But if we believe that God exists and that God is an actual person is lying, his personality and that's Christ is God in human form, then the reality is, is that there is an objective reality you got.

  • It is, and by that we can say that there's an objective truth even speak about.

  • And there is an objective good that we can speak about.

  • And there is an objective understanding off human being that is not subjective, rather object.

  • And for us is what illustrations.

  • We tend to follow the model that was coined by seen Athanasius, the great famous fourth century father, the church and theologian who said that God became man so that we may become God God's like.

  • So for us, the goal of the Christian life is to emulate price to become Christ Light is not about what I think of myself.

  • It's not about what I want to be or what what I would like to create in my mind, of what I would like to be or what I think I am.

  • But rather than there is priced price, the perfect human being, and I tried to discover what that is, and I know that is diametrically opposed to the society that we live in today, for the most part, the most, that we live in a society that is a society of subject.

  • And we live in a society that, when it speaks about religion, speaks about spirituality.

  • Speech about speaks of ideology.

  • It usually refers to the subjective, understanding off God subjective understanding of the human person, as Professor Peterson has in the last few months, Um, so when we talk about human identity, it is It is something that is to be discovered, not to be kind of created or so.

  • So you know, there's a There's a writing at the very early second century writing in the church called the Heat, which means the teaching, one of the earliest writings of the church.

  • I guess you could say, is one of the earliest manuals off how to be a Christian or the basics of the Christian faith because you could say and in the middle he says.

  • The first line says there are two ways, one of life, one of death, and there's a great difference between it's the opening lines.

  • And really, when it comes to, you know, the understanding of the human person from north, that's point of view.

  • We would say the same thing, that there are really two ways to understand.

  • There is either the revelation from God, how we emulate that.

  • Or rather, there's the movement towards the self towards self revelation, self understanding and really would say self idealization.

  • And so, of course, we assumed beings are free to do whatever you want to do.

  • Um, and we have free will.

  • But how we use that and what what we do with it and what we choose to become really depends on where we're looking towards what we want to do and who we want to be.

  • So I would say that the modern existential crisis of our time can really be remedied by a simple statement that if there is a God, there's a God, I'm not him.

  • So you understand that there's a God and I'm not him would mean that I discover who that God is What do you expect?

  • Why am I here and what am I supposed to do with my life?

  • And that's diametrically opposed to the subjective understanding off that God is whatever I want, what I would rather and go from there.

  • So in pre modern Western civilization, um, society was predominating.

  • You know, society of these kind of values is kind of objective truths.

  • It was kind of like the social glue that provided stability for the family and social Secur, shins and religion and even business ethics, like people believe that there was a good there wasa truth out there that we need to discover there was a God that we needed to somehow figure out who that God waas.

  • Um and the humility that was required to accept that we are not gods was what held all that together, the social and psychological fabric of society.

  • So without it and this is where I think Peterson would also agree and said many times, without this kind of understanding of an objective reality, Um, there is an endless movement towards the individual towards subjectivity towards what is relative.

  • And ultimately it's awards nihilism, because if there is no objective meaning in life.

  • There is no truth in life then and everything is whatever I made it and everybody is right.

  • Really.

  • Everybody's long and then really what you have to listen really ultimate meaning in life.

  • And so this is the problem.

  • There's a movement towards the delusion that everyone has their own God and everyone is free to create themselves in their own image, and this breeds endless fragmentation, said of both so called individual truths and also individual identities.

  • So if there is no God, as we said, this conversation is only matter.

  • However, there is a god and he's a personal guard as a Christian slain, then we cannot go on ignoring him without suffering serious identity prices.

  • I believe that this crisis has arrived.

  • The question is, how do we as Christians continue to see the world, see the word of God divine locals in those who refuse to see it in themselves?

  • How do we speak?

  • That's how do we speak to a world that doesn't even acknowledge that there is such a focus?

  • There is such a for this is this is the conundrum that we find ourselves in.

  • How do we witness to a world that is not speaking the same language and more.

  • And I think that is something that no discussions like this are important in the first steps.

  • Because here we are attempting.

  • I applaud you for doing this, attempting to fine points of convergence whom a Christian tradition, unorthodox Christian tradition and also secular approach.

  • Psychology, sociology, history by all the G places where these things been verge and they tell us and they reach the same truth.

  • This is why I was so enthuse about coming in today because watching a lot off Peterson's videos online and I saw that there are a lot of points that makes that not only are ruined apology but speak common sense to the world.

  • The world is a world that is completely disengaged from the idea that there can be a truth outside of ourselves and that there needs to be some type off seeking some type of understanding of what that truth may be.

  • The main difference between philosophy and theology, I always tell my students, is that philosophy comes from us.

  • It's us trying to understand the world, trying to understand the metaphysical, trying to stand God understand anything philosophizing the source of the human being.

  • We have this wonderful thing called mind.

  • It's so powerful, I could do so many things.

  • But that's the last.

  • Theology deals with revelation views of what has been revealed from outside from someone else.

  • And that's what that's what the church must deal.

  • That's what the Christian Shanti has to do with the idea what God has revealed himself.

  • By becoming a coming one of us.

  • We can negate that as much as we try.

  • And to do so would mean to negate on important part of ourselves because we believe, as a patricians, like to say all the time.

  • And as we like to court Genesis, God says in very beginning, Genesis 1 26 God makes man in his image, and his lightens gives us this great ability shoots spreading his ability to reason, figure things out for ourselves, decide whether we want to be like him or whether we want to be more like something else.

  • So this is the great dilemma.

  • It's not just a theological dilemma, not just spiritually dilemma.

  • It's an existential dilemma, becoming social dilemma coming political dilemma, biological dilemma and, uh, a lot of other bombs, So I will end there.

  • Um, I Well, let's, uh, take it from here.

  • I think this is a general introduction for these.

  • The way we see it as Orthodox Christians, God becomes man.

  • Thank God.

  • Most of the words of a possible is that I live a price within.

  • This is our also thank you very much.

  • Father did.

  • Thanks.

  • I appreciate being here.

  • Appreciate being in Toronto.

  • It's great town today.

  • I spent the day going to the museum and visiting, so I really enjoying the city.

  • I'm gonna start with this story.

  • Um, it's March 2015 and, uh, I'm driving a good pick up my Children at some friend's house on Friday night, and it's about half an hour drive.

  • So I'm settling in and I'm listening to the CDC like I usually do with that particular evening.

  • The content is not usually what you get, you see, So on the air, this University of Toronto professor and what he's saying rings of it off from what I usually hear on that show.

  • At first, he's talking about religion and religious symbolism, and he's doing it in a way.

  • Let's say he's doing it without the usual smugness that we tend to hear when people talk about religion, especially about Christianity.

  • So here he is talking about Christianity.

  • But I can tell he's not a priest, not a preacher.

  • He's a psychologist, he's a scientist.

  • And so, as the talk unfolds, my it's in, my tension heightens.

  • And after a few minutes, just a few minutes.

  • I just can't believe what I'm hearing as this profits going to stories of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel jumping to Shakespeare and Milton and Dirty, and then to Darwin and Nici and Young and and immediately I see what he's doing.

  • He isn't just kind to communicate information.

  • He's dancing across this wide variety of references because what he wants to do is he wants to bring out.

  • He wants to trace this underlying pattern, and by doing so, he's trying to awaken something in his listeners.

  • He's not just trying to get them to understand, which is what we usually here when we listen to talks.

  • No, he's trying to provoke some shake people into experiencing how the world is built with meeting.

  • So he talks about logos, which is true, meaning express in words.

  • This search for purpose and logos transformed transforms chaos and potentiality into being.

  • And in opposition to this lies deceit, resentment gradually dismantle the world and plunge it into ever growing chaos.

  • I mean, of course he's taking this with the Bible, the Book of Genesis from the Gospel of ST John sprinkled with some phenomenology.

  • But he's very clearly describing this process at all levels of reality at the individual, the inter personal social political levels and this interaction between logos and chaos is the main manner we could say by which the world is constantly sustained.

  • So by this point I am.

  • I'm literally cheering in the car.

  • I'm like, I'm hitting my steering and all I can think is Hole is this.

  • Who is this person talking and why have I not heard of them before?

  • Like why is he not famous?

  • I guess you don't ask that question anymore.

  • And especially, I like, How does he know this?

  • You see, like so the attempt to help people see experience, pattern for meaning and religious symbolism how it connects to all levels of reality.

  • That's what I've been trying to do for years.

  • That's that's been my goal in life.

  • I would say in my carvings and my articles in my talks, and I would say there's only a handful of people that I know that I can relate to at that level.

  • And it's not that people don't talk about what just symbolism.

  • Actually, a lot of people do.

  • But usually when you hear people talk about religious symbolism, at some point you can kind of picture them in like tinfoil hats.

  • And then, you know, they soon extraterrestrials become part of the discussion.

  • But not this guy.

  • He's just as clear as can be.