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  • Marie:                     Hey, its Marie Forleo and you are watching MarieTV,

  • the place to be if you want to create a business and life you love. I got a question for you

  • today: do you ever feel completely overwhelmed and confused by social media? Most of us want

  • to do a really great job, we know it's important, but with things changing so fast and with

  • so many platforms, it gets a little confusing and we just want to know to right way to do

  • it. If you can relate to this, you are in for such a treat today because I have the

  • world's leading expert in social media here to help us out.

  • Gary Vaynerchuk is a talented entrepreneur, video blogger, self trained social media expert

  • and a best selling author. Recognizing the importance of ecommerce in 1997, Gary launched

  • winelibrary.com and helped grow his family business significantly from three million

  • to 60 million by 2005. In the spring of 2009, Gary and his brother AJ launched VaynerMedia;

  • a new breed of agency that helps Fortune 500 companies like GE, PepsiCo, Hasbro and the

  • NY Jets find their social media voices and build their digital brands. With over a million

  • followers on Twitter, Gary is recognized internationally as one of the top people every entrepreneur

  • should follow and a social media trailblazer.

  • Gary, it is so awesome to have you on MarieTV. Thank you so much for making the time to do

  • this. This is your new book, which by the way Jab Jab Jab Right Hook: How to Tell your

  • Story in a Noisy Social World, I freaking love this book. I went through it when your

  • team sent it over and I was making notes; this is different than your other books, which

  • I love, Crush It and Thank You Economy, but this has 86 case studies, which is amazing.

  • Lets start off. What does Jab Jab Right Hook mean in this context?

  • Gary:           I decided to use the boxing metaphor because I think when people

  • think about social media, and I'm talking about the whole world, I'm not talking about

  • just the people in the know, they think about it as is this real, does it have actual business

  • value, it seems like there's a lot of noise, it seems like people just throwing stuff at

  • the wall and hoping it's going to be okay; social media experts and gurus and mavens,

  • 80% of them used to be real estate agents when the real estate boom was good. It's

  • mucky, but for me, somebody who's been in it for a long time, it's a real science.

  • There's a real reason that I'm sitting here with you. There's a reason I've been able

  • to sell a lot of wine. There's a reason the VaynerMedia has gone from 20 to 300 employees

  • in two years. There's a reason I'm executing. I said at one point, "it's a science,"

  • and then I was thinking about this notion of content and why people are struggling with

  • it.

  • When I decided to write a book, I decided to go with the boxing metaphor because I think

  • when most people look at boxing, they look at it as like dudes punching each other in

  • the face, but most philosophers or deep knowledgeable people of the sport compare it to chess; as

  • a matter of fact, boxing is known as the sweet science, and I'm a fan of boxing. I realized

  • social media reminds me of boxing; people think it's this one thing, but it's very

  • detailed. Then 'jab jab jab right hook' is actually what I do; give give give and

  • then ask.

  • When I wrote Thank You Economy, I noticed that the people that got it aren't actually

  • doing that well in business because they're too romantic. They're actually crippled by

  • asking for the sale and then you have 99% of everybody else who's only selling. They're

  • spamming on social and so if you're always throwing right hooks, people duck; they know

  • what's coming. This is my formula. This is why I have success. I want to guilt people

  • into buying my things. The way I do that is by giving so much upfront and then if you're

  • lucky enough to be wired the way I am, which is you have no expectation for people to deliver,

  • you end up not worrying if your right hook doesn't land, you recognize that a good

  • percentage of your right hooks do land, and it's very different than my last couple

  • of books because I also want to evolve and change and make people like yourself who I'm

  • happy that respect me not to start muting me out. This shows my detail. I wanted to

  • put a stake in the ground and say, "I'm social media 301." Most of the books are

  • 101, but I'm 301.

  • Marie:                     I love that. There's so much of what you just

  • said that I want to dive into a little bit more. First of all, I think it's so genius

  • because at first blush, you can be this guy who's telling it like it is and in their

  • face and people could write off, maybe your other books are so surface, but just like

  • with boxing, how there's so much more if you think a little bit. There's so much more strategy

  • underneath the in-your-face attitude and the fun and the motivation and all that. I think

  • that is brilliant.

  • Gary:           I want to say something because I think in this gorgeous setting it's

  • fun to be like 'let's get emotional.' That matters to me. I'm like a contradiction;

  • I equally care what everybody thinks about me and I could care less what anybody thinks

  • about me. I recognize my bravado on stage in my public figure, but I have a lot of pride

  • in that I've actually been able to execute, and this is that book for me.

  • Marie:                     I absolutely love it. I am so excited for everybody

  • to get it and we'll keep talking about it the whole time. The other thing I want to

  • mention too, and I think this is the reason why I've been such a huge fan of yours and

  • followed you since back in the day, is because I identify with so much of that. What we do

  • here on MarieTV, people always ask me "how are you making money?" We sell one big product

  • a year but the rest of the time its like we give and we keep trying to kick up the level

  • of this. It's like how do we give more value, how do we make it more entertaining, and more

  • goofy because that's really me. I think, similarly, sometimes people will write off

  • and say "it's just that silly girl, she curses, she's from Jersey, she's so inappropriate,"

  • but it's like once they really look a little bit deeper, there's a lot more.

  • I was born in Edison and I know that's where you had-

  • Gary:           At JFK. My brother AJ was born at JFK Hospital.

  • Marie:                     Digging in, social media can be so overwhelming for

  • folks; I hear that all the time. It can be overwhelming for us and I'll speak from

  • experience too. We have a small team. What do you think are some of the big major mistakes

  • in the context of Jab Jab Jab that we're all making with social media? How are we getting

  • it wrong?

  • Gary:           I wish everybody could be in my seat right now and understand

  • how much goes into this, how many amazing people, and the structure, there's a dude

  • rolling stuff right now; real stuff going on. I think that is fascinating to me because

  • you just said we do this and then we have this one big thing we sell. You're putting

  • so much effort into your jabs; this is your jab. You're putting so much effort. Nobody

  • puts efforts into their jabs. I do. It's why I send people free stuff, it's why I

  • pick up the phone and call people and scare them, and the one thing people want is your

  • time and effort because everything else can be bought, but your caring can't, your time

  • can't, those are the assets that matter. The real answer is that everybody is so hungry

  • to get to the right hook, 'buy my book, buy my product, go to my conference, and try

  • my wine'; everybody's putting effort into their right hooks. 99% of people are not putting

  • any time or effort into their jabs, so I think what they're doing wrong is they're not jabbing.

  • For example, in the context of this, there's also what I call the DJing of content. We

  • have this interview, you guys should take this entire interview, figure out the seven

  • best things I said, make quote cards, put them out on Facebook with a link to the overall,

  • and that piece of content in Facebook with my face or us together and my quote will do

  • better than if you just use Facebook as distribution to awareness to that show.

  • Marie:                     Done. Louise is taking notes. This is actually going

  • to happen and that's genius.

  • Gary:           Let me give you another one. Take a couple of other things and then

  • turn it into an infographic and put that on Pinterest because infographics do really well

  • there. Here's another one. Take a funny moment where I do something silly, when we do that,

  • take that moment, turn us dancing into an animated gif, post that on Tumblr and link

  • out because on Tumblr, animated gif is the slang. I almost call this Slang Marketing

  • because that's what it is. In Pinterest, make it a little prettier and make it an infographic.

  • On Tumblr, make it an animated gif with us dancing because it's silly, it's a younger

  • demo with a link out. On Facebook, my picture, us together, quote card that really works.

  • On Twitter, wait for something that's trending that could be tied into the copy of something

  • that happened here and then post about this instead of saying it's time to post about

  • Gary's episode.

  • People are not thinking enough. This is all strategy. What are people doing wrong? Everything.

  • It's ugly out there. For somebody like me who has gone very deep and has been doing

  • it for a very long time and truly believes he's good at it and my organization's

  • good at it, everything's wrong.

  • Marie:                     I got to tell you, I don't blow smoke up anyone's

  • ass. When I was reading this, preparing for this interview, I was reading it literally

  • twelve or one o'clock in the morning and I'm taking notes and I realized we care so

  • much, we care more than anything, we will do everything; we'll give customers money,

  • we'll send them gifts, anything possible to show that we genuinely care about people.

  • We do that because that's how I am as a human being and that's the only way I want

  • to operate.

  • Gary:           A funny thing happens when you care about other people; they start

  • to care about you.

  • Marie:                     When I was reading this and I know how much we

  • care and I know how much effort my team puts in and we're small, but everybody works

  • their asses off and I saw how many mistakes we were making-

  • Gary:           Because it's not about caring; it's why I wrote this. Thank

  • You Economy I wrote as a call to arms of if you don't give a shit about people, you're

  • done. Recognize we're living in a small world now and everybody's reputation and

  • the word of mouth matters. I've watched people from afar like you and your team and everybody

  • else who do care. It's extremely hard but once you get over the mental hump, it's

  • very easy. You're not making all these mistakes because you guys don't care; you're making

  • all these mistakes because it's hard and nobody's talking about the real details.

  • It's the talent of knowing what to do.

  • I think you really hit a chord and that's why I jumped in and said it mattered to be.

  • I realized people think I'm successful because I'm funny on stage; are you guys out of your

  • mind? Do I have to remind you that I built a $60 million business before I even started

  • one episode of Wine Library? I needed this book for myself as much as anything else and

  • I really wanted to empower people. This is utility. This isn't a rant; this is a textbook.

  • Marie:                     I love it too. One of your talents, which I

  • think, is just awesome your ability to offer constructive criticism to not hold anything

  • back, but at the same time, it's incredibly respectful. I just think it's amazing.

  • Gary:           Even when I said to Lil' Wayne that he was the first person

  • to turn Facebook into MySpace?

  • Marie:                     It's fucking funny. It's hilarious. That was

  • a laugh out loud moment for me. Content versus context, which is a big theme in this book.

  • Gary:           Everything thinks about content, what are they going to say;

  • nobody's paying attention to the context of the platform. I just ranted on that. Nobody's

  • sitting there and saying, wait a minute, animated gifs work on Tumblr. It's bandwidth; you

  • take one picture and you want to put it on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Pinterest everybody

  • thinks of social networks as distribution channels to bring you somewhere else; I think

  • of them as places to natively tell stories. Of course I have to respect the context of

  • Pinterest; not only do I have to understand and respect what works there, infographics

  • and other things of that nature, I have to respect who's there, females more than males

  • at a certain demo. I also have to respect, and I didn't do as good of a job getting

  • this point across in this book as I could have and I'm disappointed about it because

  • I think it was close, is the psychology of why somebody's on it. Why is the female

  • on Pinterest at 8 PM at night? Why is she on Pinterest at all? Because the data shows

  • analytically, anecdotally, and what I spend time on, is she has the intent to buy something,

  • you pin something you actually want to buy or the intent to aspire to buy that, 'one

  • day I'm going to get this kitchen.'

  • What you're putting out so somebody from that mindset needs to be different than why she's

  • going through her phone on Facebook, which is to keep in touch with her world. That takes

  • a different story. It's all context. The way you and I are acting right now compared

  • to if we were at a conference on a Saturday night at two in the morning in Las Vegas is

  • different. The context of the room requires us to act different even though we still are

  • ourselves. Those subtle things, what wittiness on Twitter that's required, that beautiful

  • picture or authentic picture on Instagram, you have to respect the context of the room

  • in which you're storytelling.

  • Marie:                     That was such a huge thing for us because I know

  • it for me. You mentioned the word "bandwidth" and this was a big question I had for you

  • because I know so many people in our audience, they could be a one woman or one man shop,

  • they're just getting started, they're going crazy, they got the full time job still, they

  • got kids running around, they may read this and go "holy shit! There's all these platforms,

  • he just schooled me on all of them, I'm overwhelmed," and go like this and go "fuck it, I'm done

  • before I even start."

  • Would you recommend someone going "You know what, I think I can really tell my story effectively,"

  • like for me for example. I'm good on video. This is a great medium for me so we focus

  • a lot of our energy there. Would you suggest someone pick one platform and get good and

  • dominate it and then stack on top of it?

  • Gary:           A hell of a lot better than "shit, I'm not doing anything," so

  • yes, if that's the alternative. I'd also like to ask them to audit what they do for

  • a living or recreationally and try to find another 90 minutes that they're spending on

  • dumb shit and apply it to have a second platform because this will actually work.

  • I really wish I had a six-pack. I tactically can read anything to know what to do; I can

  • eat better and I can do all crunch exercises. The blueprint's here but I don't do it

  • thus I don't have it, so if you want to put your hands up and say "woe is me,"

  • that's fine. I have nothing to say to that. All I can do is put out the blueprint and

  • then the 1% that's watching that is actually going to do it is going to send both of us

  • an email in two years. I'm living this now; Crush It has similar things to it because

  • it was a little more actionable, it was also rant and action. I get 50 emails a month saying,

  • "My life is different. You changed my life," but meanwhile on Amazon, there's a slew of

  • negative reviews because they didn't want to do it. Cool. All I know how to do is to

  • do and then I feel like if I do, then at least I have the respect or the authority to be

  • able to talk about it and give a chance for somebody to change it.

  • Marie:                     Absolutely. You actually mentioned something else I wanted

  • to ask you about, which I think your perspective on this topic is so refreshing when it comes

  • to haters or criticism, either of that. I know you had a little short piece and I don't

  • know if it was Inc or Forbes-

  • Gary:           Inc.

  • Marie:                     Can you share because I think it's so freaking

  • useful.

  • Gary:           What you're referring to, which I was going to get to, it's the

  • same basic principle, which is "I really respect my haters." I truly, no bullshit,

  • respect them because it's how they feel. It takes me time sometimes to dig into are

  • they unhappy people, are there other things going on, did I do something wrong by accident

  • because I had never had that intent, but if somebody thinks you stink, that means you're

  • doing a bad job communicating to them of what your value proposition is. I respect my haters,

  • the people that don't agree with are easy, when I say haters I mean people that are being

  • rude or unkind to me, I respect it, I take it very seriously, I try to understand it

  • and I evolve from it, I reach out to it. 90% are thrilled to have that dialogue, a lot

  • of times they're surprised that I'm even willing to go there because nobody has the time, the

  • 10% that want to draw a line in the sand and dislike me, it bothers me but I try my best.

  • I know how my parents raised me, I know what my objectives are.

  • I wrote a piece on Medium, which is an incredible blog platform that I think you should be seriously

  • paying attention to Medium, there's two ways to build the biggest building in town. One,

  • you just build it; you build the largest building. Two, you tear down all the other buildings

  • around you. We live in a very cynical world where a lot of people do number two. I take

  • enormous pride in number one. I was one of the first video bloggers ever. I love sitting

  • here knowing video bloggers have gone further from where I went. That doesn't make me

  • sad; that makes me happy. I want other people to win, as long as I win more. I'm competitive

  • but that's not me being on a defense of everybody else. That's not me saying, "That's

  • not good"; that's me being on the offense. That's how I look at it.

  • And you're right. It's stunning to me. I'm on an island on this issue. I just don't

  • even see the other people that look at it this way. Maybe it's a flaw, I think a lot

  • about the fact that maybe I'm rewarding the negative instead of the positive. I don't

  • know what it is but it blows me away how singularly isolated I am. My contemporaries are baffled

  • by my effort towards this negativity.

  • Marie:                     I have to say when I read the piece that you

  • wrote, it was a little short piece and it was about respecting your haters, it was saying

  • "if you actually listen to them and say 'what can I do better' and have a conversation,"

  • I actually found it really, really refreshing. We had an example on our blog of someone who

  • was tired of hearing, our flagship program is called B-School, and she was like, "I've

  • heard all these great things, but I also heard XYZ which were more on the negative side."

  • I remember looking at that and I said, "Let me go in there and talk with her, and you're

  • right on this and you're right on this and you're right on this, but I also have to

  • say you got to be balanced and look at XYZ." She came back and she was so thankful and

  • grateful. We heard her, we acknowledge where she was 100% correct, but we also we were

  • like we think you should see this other side as well, and then make a choice based on what

  • you feel is best; it was amazing.

  • Gary:           I have incredible relationships in my life and they're all predicated

  • on communication. If you want to have a relationship with your audience, you have to communicate

  • with them. That doesn't mean that you get the video, we get to put it out and that's

  • that.

  • Marie:                     I think one of my favorite parts of the book,

  • obviously the case studies are incredibly instructive, but I love chapter nine about

  • effort and I know it's just three pages, but it feels like when I was reading that,

  • I'm listening to you talking directly to me and it just got me so pumped up. I know we

  • talked a little bit about effort before, but when it comes to even business in general,

  • and let me ask you this, maybe I'll paint it in a different context, building VaynerMedia.

  • What's that like? You've never built a company with 300 people before.

  • Gary:           It's interesting. It's so weird and I can't believe that you

  • putting that way, that you've never built. There's a really great saying in football

  • that I like and I'm a big Jets fan, as anybody who's watching this knows me knows. I love

  • the saying of "act like you've been there before." It's this whole notion that when

  • you score touchdowns, a lot of people respect the person that just hands the ball to the

  • ref instead of all the insanity that the modern athlete does. Until you said that, I'm so

  • insane in my own brain of where I'm going that to sit and think that I've never done

  • that before, it's such a foregone conclusion in my brain that I don't even think of it

  • that way.

  • Marie:                     I can totally understand that. If you look on

  • that wall, do you see "everything is figureoutable?" That's how I live my life. Any time we have

  • an idea or I have an idea and I'm like I've never done that because everything I've done

  • that's cool I've never done before, so I feel like I'm wired the same. But when I thought

  • about having 300 employees, which is not necessarily where I want to go, but that was look, oh

  • cool -

  • Gary:           That's a whole other story for another day, which is that

  • this is similar to maybe the hater conversation. The amount of people that actually want to

  • build heavy human infrastructure is so low. I on the other hand desperately want it. I

  • love it. I would tell you that I'm the head of HR and then the CEO. I spend outrageous

  • amounts of time by percentage on HR, we have one HR person who I would not call senior

  • or ever done it before, so I'm very deeply involved in my employees lives, thoughts,

  • concerns, mainly because I think it's going to be a 1000- or 5000-person company, so I

  • feel if I instill the heart and DNA into these 500 or 700, that gets me to 70,000 or 7,000

  • or whatever it ends up being. VaynerMedia is an evergreen company for me. What I mean

  • by that is I will never sell it. I might dilute some of the percentage of it, but I'll never

  • sell it. I need it to be a testing ground for all the other things I do for the rest

  • of my life, it's a very emotional company for me that way.

  • Marie:                     What I can feel from you as you're saying that

  • is I love that energy and everything in here, it's like the perfect testing ground for

  • you to continue to evolve and obviously I'm really thankful that you're doing it because

  • I have someone who's leading the charge, who we can pay attention to, and obviously

  • we're going to try and figure things out on our own. I love knowing that you're in

  • the world because it makes a huge difference.

  • Gary:           I appreciate it and it's a funny thing for me to think about,

  • which is "look at me, I'm so great, I was able to make this detailed book." No shot

  • if I didn't have this company."Thank You Economy is my life. It's my north star,

  • but Crush It, I was writing about what I was doing for Wine Library TV and Wine Library,

  • which was pioneering this thing. That's what I feel about this book, which is when

  • I talk about here will be mainstream. When I'm talking now and doing this interview,

  • I'm looking at your team, when I'm bringing up the Tumblr posts and I see everybody like

  • "that's exactly right"; that's how I felt about Crush It and that's how I feel

  • about this. In the three of four years, seeing that same thing, everybody is going to understand

  • that's the game; I like that feeling of being ahead of it. I have that feeling with

  • this.

  • Marie:                     I think it's incredible. One more question

  • about your team. Do you hire a lot of people through your connections on social media or

  • people that follow you?

  • Gary:           It happens. More so in the beginning, now we're getting to

  • such a level where those hires have been awesome and they're the most family to me, but they've

  • been hit and miss because people are so passionate to work with me and I'm such a softie that

  • I want to give people that at bat and what you start learning is you don't do the right

  • thing by them. The experience is worth it and the relationship with me is worth it and

  • I always do the right thing, but we've definitely taken 30% out of the equation of the Gary

  • factor to try to really be a little bit more critical to make sure we're finding the

  • right vets.

  • Marie:                     Some of my best people that I love and I do consider

  • them family, they've come through being a customer and been it's been amazing, so

  • I was just curious.

  • Gary:           Customers are totally different. Getting customers that knew me

  • or fans or social, they have been great. When you come into the inside, I'm trying to be

  • the best and so at some level, what's interesting is that doesn't mean you have to be the

  • best; it means that I have to be able to put you in a position to succeed. I have to find

  • a place with the structure of what I'm trying to do for you to be able to bring value. Sometimes

  • there's not a perfect match.

  • Marie:                     Do you use your gut a lot for those decisions?

  • Gary:           Only.

  • Marie:                     Only your gut. Me too. Sometimes things look like

  • on paper and there's something inside that's just going "no freaking way."

  • Gary:           But the truth is my gut's been wrong.

  • Marie:                     Like 30%? 50%? Couldn't even say.

  • Gary:           I don't even think about it because I don't care because it's

  • what I wanted to do at that moment. Maybe 25% has been wrong. Employees is a crapshoot.

  • It really is. With my wife, it was 100% so I think I trust my gut. Investing in Tumblr,

  • investing in Birchbox; that's worked out. I'm all about guts but I also don't want

  • to be like my gut is the greatest. It's wrong. Yobango didn't work out; I lost money.

  • Marie:                     Gary, this has been absolutely amazing. If you want to market anything on social media,

  • if you care about your business and about the people that you serve and you want to

  • do it right and you want to be leading edge and you want to connect with people in the

  • best way, you have got to get your hands on this book. Get it for your team, get it for

  • anyone that works with you; it is that good.

  • You know what we like to do on MarieTV that we like to give people a challenge in the

  • comments to really take everything we talked about and not just say those are great ideas,

  • but take action and do it.

  • Gary:           This makes me so happy because for a lot of you that don't

  • know me, in 2006 when I started Wine Library TV, I create at the end of the show the question

  • of the day, which was really creating a real community. I've spent four years reading every

  • one of them so I'm all in on the comments section. Here's what I think I want to do:

  • when you get a chance to get the thesis, and there's a free chapter on my website if you

  • decide not to buy it, but once you get the thesis, put a link to your jab or your right

  • hook. Put a link and say "this is my right hook" or "this is my jab" in the comments

  • section and I promised that I was going to jump in and audit and take a look and I'll

  • reply to some of the comments and tell them if they're doing a good job or not. Give some

  • thought, try to figure out what you're selling, what you're trying to get across to the world,

  • you might be trying to raise money, it's not about selling something, whatever the

  • objective is and then create a piece of content, it could be just copy on Twitter if you're

  • not good and Photoshop or a one person shop, leave your link to it and if it was a jab

  • or a right hook.

  • Marie:                     Thank you so much for making the time especially

  • during the book launch and it drops today which is fantastic. I really appreciate you

  • being here.

  • Put some thought into it and as always, the best discussions happen after the episode

  • over at MarieForleo.com so go there and leave your comment now.

  • Did you like this video? If so, subscribe to my channel and of course share this with

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  • Stay on your game and keep going for your dreams because the world needs that special

  • gift that only you have. Thank you so much for watching and I'll catch you next time

  • on MarieTV.

Marie:                     Hey, its Marie Forleo and you are watching MarieTV,

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