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  • Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome John Anderson.

  • Well, Jordan and Dave, thank you so much for giving us your time.

  • John Anderson dot net is basically dedicated to something that is very, very dear to me as someone who is very wide about our country and where we're going.

  • And it's that you cannot cannot get good public policy without a good public to bite.

  • And it seems now we don't have debates anymore.

  • We just have abusive emotional mudslinging.

  • So that's the sort of the background thing.

  • But then we come to this incredible opportunity today to engage with these two gentlemen and I wanted to get the ball rolling by talking about a number of issues, firstly, personal responsibility.

  • Then I'd like to move on to freedom.

  • What is it?

  • Because it's not license.

  • It's not what so many people think it is today.

  • And how do we make it work?

  • I didn't want to talk about courage because we're gonna need a lot of it going forward and you're going to hear a lot ord see, demonstrated some real courage, I think here and what we're going to talk about and what you're going to hear, what you're going to witness then a bit about social media and how we make it all work and then it's over to you.

  • We live in a nice when it seems that there's a crisis of trust in our culture.

  • It seems that we are very uncertain of our institutions and the people who make them up on what their motivations might be.

  • And indeed the research backs that up.

  • The Australian National University has been tracking Australia's confidence in their politicians and the political process.

  • Now for many decades.

  • We are in uncharted waters.

  • Record numbers of Australians no longer have confidence in the system.

  • Record numbers of Australians now distrust the political process and the players in it.

  • Just more recently, we've had the latest of a series of royal commissions of inquiry into various institutions.

  • This time's banking on the financial service is, and we learned that we couldn't trust bankers.

  • Now there are many trustworthy bankers in case there are any here.

  • But plainly people were deeply concerned by what emerged and you stop and think about this when people are in relationships of trust, harmony and progress could be might when it breaks down harmony and progress are impaired and people flee for safety.

  • If you don't feel safe with someone else, you'll look for the rule book and you look for policing and you'll look for protection.

  • So it's a good thing we've had the Royal Commission of Inquiry, so we know what's been going on.

  • It's a good thing we've got the red 78 recommendations, new laws everywhere, new surveillance, new policing.

  • But it's a tragedy that it was necessary in the first place that people have not been doing what should have been doing without coercion.

  • So now we've got a great big battle ist how to resolve these things, you say the law based approach.

  • But Jordan, you've said something quite different in the midst of all of us.

  • What you have said is that the redemption of the world is not political.

  • It happens at the level of the individual.

  • That's not what we hear in the mayor.

  • Every night there's a new scandal.

  • It's we need more rules.

  • We need more policing.

  • We need more surveillance.

  • We need a different party in power.

  • You're not saying that you're saying it comes back to the individual.

  • The first question is.

  • Do you want that?

  • Do you want a more A state with more regulatory power?

  • Do you want a state with more surveillance?

  • I mean, first of all, why would you think that That would be trustworthy.

  • When all the evidence suggests in the past that as the state expands its surveillance power, it actually becomes less trustworthy rather than Maur.

  • And why would you want you might think?

  • Well, I certainly want someone looking into your affairs, but I don't want anybody looking into mine.

  • Well, good luck with that because, you know, to the degree that I have someone elect someone to look into your affairs there bloody well, going to be looking into mine as well.

  • And that just doesn't strike me as a particularly positive development practically because I don't believe it'll work.

  • I don't think surveillance states do make people more honest.

  • I think all the evidence is the opposite.

  • And then I would say from the individual perspective, it's like I believe that the fundamental what we got fundamentally right in the West, because there is a number of things we got fundamentally right, even though we don't like to admit that anymore is that the ultimate moral responsibility for the state relies on you.

  • It relies on your moral integrity and you know you can.

  • It's not that hard to think that through.

  • It's like, Well, first of all, you have the right and the responsibility to vote, and we could say, Well, that's not exactly given to you by the state.

  • It's something that exists in some, in some sense outside and before the state.

  • It's part and parcel of your intrinsic value.

  • Okay, so that's a decision that we've made in the West, that each person, regardless of their flaws, is characterized by a value and intrinsic value that's so deep and so profound that the very regulation of the state itself rests on their shoulders.

  • And that's really something.

  • That's that's why you have the right to vote.

  • And that's worth thinking about.

  • The first question is, Well, do you think that's a good idea or not?

  • I do believe that we are, in fact sovereign individuals, and then, well, let's assume that you believe that we are because the alternative is some sort of autocracy, right?

  • It's some sort of tyranny.

  • It's it's the it's the parsing off of that sovereignty to a bureaucracy or to some arbitrary form of leadership.

  • And maybe you can believe in that.

  • And you'd like a strong leader and fine.

  • But you want to think that through because if it's not that, then it's you.

  • Well, then it's if it's you and you have to make sure that the ship of state is sailing properly, then the first thing you might want to ask yourself is, What makes you think you're any more trustworthy than the people that you're that your despising or criticizing?

  • I mean, if if you are, well, more power to you.

  • But it is self evident that you are, and my suspicions are that it's not even self evident to you that you are because it's a very rare person that you come across.

  • If you talk to them with any degree of seriousness, you know they're able to lay out a whole litany of ways they fall short of their own value, their own values, not values that other people are putting on them.

  • Certainly, that is well, and they can name innumerable ways that not only are they not doing what they shouldn't be doing, so they're falling short of the mark in that way.

  • But they're doing all sorts of things that they definitely shouldn't be doing, and they know it.

  • It's like, Well, we're gonna put that right or not.

  • And my sense is, you know, I wrote a rule in my book.

  • Put your house in perfect order Before you complain about the world before you criticize the world, What's the idea?

  • It's like, Well, you're the sovereign man.

  • If the states, if the ship of state is listing and sinking, that's you, that's your problem.

  • It's your fault.

  • You're not doing it right.

  • You're not educated enough.

  • You're not awake enough.

  • You're not articulated in the target.

  • Articulate enough.

  • You don't know enough about history.

  • You're not taking on enough responsibility.

  • You're looking for other people to blame because it's convenient and and and that's kind of understandable because it's the dispersal of responsibility who wants all that responsibility?

  • But there's a huge price to be paid for it.

  • The the first price that you pay for it is well, there goes the adventure of your life.

  • It's like you could get yourself together and be the bedrock of the state right That'd be hard hat.

  • Call on everything that you have.

  • That would be your adventure.

  • Gonna pass that off to someone else.

  • And then then what do you do?

  • You've got nothing left in your life, a triviality and you can't live.

  • I don't believe that people can live ethically trivially.

  • That's why I think the pursuit of the idea that life is for happiness is wrong because life is too difficult for that to be the case.

  • Our lives are too profound to characterized by suffering and malevolence.

  • The world is to characterized by trouble at every level, for happiness, to be the proper solution.

  • The solution is something like, ah, heavy burden of ethical responsibility, the kind that sets the state's straight.

  • And then in that you find the purpose of your life.

  • And so not only if you want the external monitoring and the surveillance state not only do sacrifice your privacy and invite all that invasive attention and lose, you're impulsive freedom.

  • You lose everything that's profound about your life and someone takes it from you.

  • They take your destiny from you, and that's no way to live.

  • That's just that's the tyranny that we've struggled against in the West successfully for I would say, in one way or another for, for for a number of thousands of years and with a substantial amount of success to draw Dave into this.

  • We met in L.

  • A.

  • A couple of years ago over breakfast.

  • Dave, you're a great defender of culture to now.

  • When we met, it was very interesting.

  • You set out the reasons in a way for me to think he's a card carrying progressive.

  • You tell me where you came from and what do you believe in, what you didn't.

  • And then you said on I'm guy married man, and then you went on to say, and I thank God every day.

  • I live in Christian America and I thought, That's a surprise turning the conversation.

  • And we had a fantastic breakfast talking about it, your defender of culture now, or of our cultural roots at a time when the West seems to be its own worst enemy and doesn't believe in its cultural rates.

  • Could you elaborate?

  • Yeah, of course.

  • Well, you know, first off, as you guys, I'm sure know Jordan.

  • I just left the Sydney Opera house a few minutes ago and we've done about 100 and 20 some odd shows.

  • I've opened for Jordan and it just struck me in the last two minutes that having to follow you is much less fun.

  • I having to go before you.

  • That's easy.

  • I'm usually just setting them up.

  • You're not going to the park, but okay, I'll try.

  • Um well, just quickly on what Jordan said about the individual, because it links exactly to that.

  • You know, people ask me all the time in the Q and A's and are meet and greets.

  • What What is going on?

  • Why is it that people are following this psychologist talking about lobsters all over the country?

  • And and actually that question is what I believe is the answer there is.

  • There has been a complete obliteration for young people to understand what being an individual is, what, being a person that owns your own mind, that decides to get out there and live the life they're supposed to live that doesn't want to take from somebody and give to somebody else or just take for themselves.

  • And that has really been lost.

  • And what's been amazing to me is we've done now 20 some odd countries is that the same things that you guys are thinking about in Sydney are the exact same things that people are thinking about in Toronto and Los Angeles and stock home and all over the country, And that's absolutely fascinating.

  • So, to your question, because I am an individual, that is what led me here that that's, I think, what led you to wanna have breakfast with me in Los Angeles that the difference is the immutable characteristics that we either have in common or separate us, whether it's sexuality or gender or skin color are completely irrelevant.

  • If we really want to be a society that is truly free that truly respects each other, it makes no difference.

  • I mean, I do when I go to colleges, I usually just single out somebody in the crowd, and it's like, How sad would it be if I just looked at you?

  • And I was like, Oh, well, you're a white guy.

  • You look like you're in your early twenties, as if that would give me any inclination that I would have any insight into what you think or how you should think, actually is the better point because you should think whatever you think and hopefully be willing to have that exchange of ideas.

  • So I'm very appreciative that I live in a Christian country, because the simple fact is, while the media will imply that you know, every day there's another story on how evil Christian white people are something like that.

  • And by the way I see that spreading all over the world as well.

  • I mean, there's there's a weird thing going on with the media where I thought it was really American, crumbling of the media.

  • But now I see it all over the place.

  • Um, I live in the freest country in the history of the world, period.

  • The United States in 2019 is the freest place in the history of the world.

  • You can, you know, with the most tiny exceptions on speech around, you know, yelling fire in a crowded theater or a direct threat of violence.

  • You can say whatever you want and even being here in Australia, where you guys have it pretty good on speech.

  • I can tell people are jealous of what America has, and certainly when we were in the U.

  • K.

  • Where they have all sorts of things Where you know this This YouTube creator count dank.

  • Ula had his dog, you know, do the do the Nazi salute and and gotten all sorts of trouble.

  • I mean, we won't have this forever and that that's very clear to me.

  • And I would just add this that Douglas Murray who I'm sure you're familiar with in the UK Um, he's also gay, and I and he's a brilliant thinker, and I didn't even want to ask him anything about that because it's it's completely irrelevant in a certain way.

  • But the last question when I had him on last time, I said him, Do you think your sexuality has a little something to do with your sensitivity about freedom?

  • Because, you know, it might be you first.

  • And he said that he thought his skin was a little thinner because of that.

  • And so I do think that people that are on the outside for whatever, whatever that is, it doesn't have to be Sexuality could be obviously a myriad of different issues.

  • Um, I do think you become a little more sensitive, sensitive to it, and for that reason I'm incredibly I'll go a step further.

  • I am blessed that I live in the United States of America and I can do I can.

  • I'm a free man in the freest country ever.

  • And I'm very appreciative that you can see why we get on.

  • Yeah.

  • Hi.

  • Seriously.

  • Can anyone push back against that?

  • And yet, half a time when you listen to the elite to have their hands on the levers of influence today you would think we lived in cruel and oppressive cultures.

  • Think of the four great revolutions, the American war of Independence.

  • And what came out of that I think of the French Revolution.

  • Think of the Russian Revolution.

  • Think of the mass revolution which one has produced a really understanding of the individual and secure their freedoms.

  • Integrate away on where in Australia, of course, are unbelievably blessed to use your word again because we've inherited what's called a wash Minster the best of the British House of Congress.

  • Sorry.

  • House of Representatives based on the House of Commons, Senators closely modelled on yours and it works unbelievably well.

  • But you wouldn't think it listen to the public commentary today.

  • Now that's come to freedom when you and I talked in Sydney.

  • Uh, back just before Easter last year, we had a great conversation into my enormous delight.

  • I found that we had a friend in common.

  • Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

  • There you go.

  • There's a photograph of him now.

  • It doesn't look very happy when there's a good reason for that.

  • He would have been probably busted up physically in all sorts of other ways as well.

  • When that photograph was taken, Hey Waas.

  • A hero in Russia in the Second World War.

  • But after the war, he dared to disagree with the regime in Moscow, which was on unbelievably evil, right, Jane for the price.

  • The price for disagreeing was that he ended up and the gulag in a prison.

  • This is a remarkable book.

  • He wrote about his experiences there, said that this wasn't the only one.

  • It was smuggled out to the West.

  • There's no doubt that he's writing shortened the life of that evil regime, but the bit that stayed with me, in which you referred to and have many times you write a great essay on whatever Christmas I recommended to you.

  • It was published in the Times and then in the Australian or you can Google.

  • It was that this black recorder that one day I was lying in his cell.

  • I would imagine freezing called probably ill.

  • Incredibly, I'm happy any circumstances.

  • He hears the thumping over guard down the rows, belting another prisoner up the screams of the prisoner.

  • And then he writes off that it dawned on me as I listened to it that the dividing line between good and evil actually doesn't lie between capture and captive.

  • Can you imagine a prisoner in those circumstances saying the blood doing the beating is captive to He's not free.

  • Rather, he said, the dividing line between good and evil lies somewhere across.

  • Every human heart is not between man and woman, so let the some of the people in today's movements.

  • It's not between Catholic and Baptist or man and woman.

  • The dividing line between good and evil lies somewhere across every human hot.

  • That was very profound for 1,000,000 public life when I was telling these friends on the way out that, for example, you know a point that came to me to be quite realize, a young federal member of parliament was in the outback town of Walden on a very, very angry young aboriginal man came up to me.

  • He swore his head off at me.

  • He said you signed size.

  • You stole this from us.

  • You ruined this.

  • You do.

  • You know you on absolute litany of my crimes, and now you're gonna pass back.

  • And I remember thinking, Stop, stop.

  • Remember that this guy has the stamp of nobility on him, too.

  • It's just I can't see it at the moment, you know, And I've got no right to do him over.

  • He's like, maybe he's a mixture of good and bad, But let's to use this out.

  • This incredible writer who eventually was freed, found his way to America.

  • The Americans and the West refused to listen to his warnings.

  • He was there like a kind of prophet, saying, Look out, you're losing your freedoms.

  • What did he mean?