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  • I'm going to talk today about energy and climate.

  • And that might seem a bit surprising because

  • my full-time work at the foundation is mostly about vaccines and seeds,

  • about the things that we need to invent and deliver

  • to help the poorest two billion live better lives.

  • But energy and climate are extremely important to these people,

  • in fact, more important than to anyone else on the planet.

  • The climate getting worse, means that many years their crops won't grow.

  • There will be too much rain, not enough rain.

  • Things will change in ways

  • that their fragile environment simply can't support.

  • And that leads to starvation. It leads to uncertainty. It leads to unrest.

  • So, the climate changes will be terrible for them.

  • Also, the price of energy is very important to them.

  • In fact, if you could pick just one thing to lower the price of,

  • to reduce poverty, by far, you would pick energy.

  • Now, the price of energy has come down over time.

  • Really, advanced civilization is based on advances in energy.

  • The coal revolution fueled the industrial revolution,

  • and, even in the 1900's we've seen a very rapid decline in the price of electricity,

  • and that's why we have refrigerators, air-conditioning,

  • we can make modern materials and do so many things.

  • And so, we're in a wonderful situation with electricity in the rich world.

  • But, as we make it cheaper -- and let's go for making it twice as cheap --

  • we need to meet a new constraint,

  • and that constraint has to do with CO2.

  • CO2 is warming the planet,

  • and the equation on CO2 is actually a very straightforward one.

  • If you sum up the CO2 that gets emitted,

  • that leads to a temperature increase,

  • and that temperature increase leads to some very negative effects.

  • The effects on the weather and, perhaps worse, the indirect effects,

  • in that the natural ecosystems can't adjust to these rapid changes,

  • and so you get ecosystem collapses.

  • Now, the exact amount of how you map

  • from a certain increase of CO2 to what temperature will be

  • and where the positive feedbacks are,

  • there's some uncertainty there, but not very much.

  • And there's certainly uncertainty about how bad those effects will be,

  • but they will be extremely bad.

  • I asked the top scientists on this several times,

  • do we really have to get down to near zero?

  • Can't we just cut it in half or a quarter?

  • And the answer is that, until we get near to zero,

  • the temperature will continue to rise.

  • And so that's a big challenge.

  • It's very different than saying we're a 12 ft high truck trying to get under a 10 ft bridge,

  • and we can just sort of squeeze under.

  • This is something that has to get to zero.

  • Now, we put out a lot of carbon dioxide every year,

  • over 26 billion tons.

  • For each American, it's about 20 tons.

  • For people in poor countries, it's less than one ton.

  • It's an average of about five tons for everyone on the planet.

  • And, somehow, we have to make changes

  • that will bring that down to zero.

  • It's been constantly going up.

  • It's only various economic changes that have even flattened it at all,

  • so we have to go from rapidly rising

  • to falling, and falling all the way to zero.

  • This equation has four factors.

  • A little bit of multiplication.

  • So, you've got a thing on the left, CO2, that you want to get to zero,

  • and that's going to be based on the number of people,

  • the services each person's using on average,

  • the energy on average for each service,

  • and the CO2 being put out per unit of energy.

  • So, let's look at each one of these

  • and see how we can get this down to zero.

  • Probably, one of these numbers is going to have to get pretty near to zero.

  • Now that's back from high school algebra,

  • but let's take a look.

  • First we've got population.

  • Now, the world today has 6.8 billion people.

  • That's headed up to about nine billion.

  • Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines,

  • health care, reproductive health services,

  • we could lower that by, perhaps, 10 or 15 percent,

  • but there we see an increase of about 1.3.

  • The second factor is the services we use.

  • This encompasses everything,

  • the food we eat, clothing, TV, heating.

  • These are very good things,

  • and getting rid of poverty means providing these services

  • to almost everyone on the planet.

  • And it's a great thing for this number to go up.

  • In the rich world, perhaps the top one billion,

  • we probably could cut back and use less,

  • but every year, this number, on average, is going to go up,

  • and so, over all, that will more than double

  • the services delivered per person.

  • Here we have a very basic service.

  • Do you have lighting in your house to be able to read your homework,

  • and, in fact, these kids don't, so they're going out

  • and reading their school work under the street lamps.

  • Now, efficiency, E, the energy for each service,

  • here, finally we have some good news.

  • We have something that's not going up.

  • Through various inventions and new ways of doing lighting,

  • through different types of cars, different ways of building buildings.

  • there are a lot of services where you can bring

  • the energy for that service down quite substantially,

  • some individual services even, bring it down by 90 percent.

  • There are other services like how we make fertilizer,

  • or how we do air transport,

  • where the rooms for improvement are far, far less.

  • And so, overall here, if we're optimistic,

  • we may get a reduction of a factor of three to even, perhaps, a factor of six.

  • But for these first three factors now,

  • we've gone from 26 billion to, at best, maybe 13 billion tons,

  • and that just won't cut it.

  • So let's look at this fourth factor --

  • this is going to be a key one --

  • and this is the amount of CO2 put out per each unit of energy.

  • And so the question is, can you actually get that to zero?

  • If you burn coal, no.

  • If you burn natural gas, no.

  • Almost every way we make electricity today,

  • except for the emerging renewables and nuclear, puts out CO2.

  • And so, what we're going to have to do at a global scale,

  • is create a new system.

  • And so, we need energy miracles.

  • Now, when I use the term miracle, I don't mean something that's impossible.

  • The microprocessor is a miracle. The personal computer is a miracle.

  • The internet and its services are a miracle.

  • So, the people here have participated in the creation of many miracles.

  • Usually, we don't have a deadline,

  • where you have to get the miracle by a certain date.

  • Usually, you just kind of stand by, and some come along, some don't.

  • This is a case where we actually have to drive full speed

  • and get a miracle in a pretty tight time line.

  • Now, I thought, how could I really capture this?

  • Is there some kind of natural illustration,

  • some demonstration that would grab people's imagination here?

  • I thought back to a year ago when I brought mosquitos,

  • and somehow people enjoyed that.

  • (Laughter)

  • It really got them involved in the idea of,

  • you know, there are people who live with mosquitos.

  • So, with energy, all I could come up with is this.

  • I decided that releasing fireflies

  • would be my contribution to the environment here this year.

  • So here we have some natural fireflies.

  • I'm told they don't bite, in fact, they might not even leave that jar.

  • (Laughter)

  • Now, there's all sorts gimmicky solutions like that one,

  • but they don't really add up to much.

  • We need solutions, either one or several,

  • that have unbelievable scale

  • and unbelievable reliability,

  • and, although there's many directions people are seeking,

  • I really only see five that can achieve the big numbers.

  • I've left out tide, geothermal, fusion, biofuels.

  • Those may make some contribution,

  • and if they can do better than I expect, so much the better,

  • but my key point here

  • is that we're going to have to work on each of these five,

  • and we can't give up any of them because they look daunting,

  • because they all have significant challenges.

  • Let's look first at the burning fossil fuels,

  • either burning coal or burning natural gas.

  • What you need to do there, seems like it might be simple, but it's not,

  • and that's to take all the CO2, after you've burned it, going out the flue,

  • pressurize it, create a liquid, put it somewhere,

  • and hope it stays there.

  • Now we have some pilot things that do this at the 60 to 80 percent level,

  • but getting up to that full percentage, that will be very tricky,

  • and agreeing on where these CO2 quantities should be put will be hard,

  • but the toughest one here is this long term issue.

  • Who's going to be sure?

  • Who's going to guarantee something that is literally billions of times larger

  • than any type of waste you think of in terms of nuclear or other things?

  • This is a lot of volume.

  • So that's a tough one.

  • Next, would be nuclear.

  • It also has three big problems.

  • Cost, particularly in highly regulated countries, is high.

  • The issue of the safety, really feeling good about nothing could go wrong,

  • that, even though you have these human operators,

  • that the fuel doesn't get used for weapons.

  • And then what do you do with the waste?

  • And, although it's not very large, there are a lot of concerns about that.

  • People need to feel good about it.

  • So three very tough problems that might be solvable,

  • and so, should be worked on.

  • The last three of the five, I've grouped together.

  • These are what people often refer to as the renewable sources.

  • And they actually -- although it's great they don't require fuel --

  • they have some disadvantages.

  • One is that the density of energy gathered in these technologies

  • is dramatically less than a power plant.

  • This is energy farming, so you're talking about many square miles,

  • thousands of time more area than you think of as a normal energy plant.

  • Also, these are intermittent sources.

  • The sun doesn't shine all day, it doesn't shine every day,

  • and, likewise, the wind doesn't blow all the time.

  • And so, if you depend on these sources,

  • you have to have some way of getting the energy

  • during those time periods that it's not available.

  • So, we've got big cost challenges here.

  • We have transmission challenges.

  • For example, say this energy source is outside your country,

  • you not only need the technology,

  • but you have to deal with the risk of the energy coming from elsewhere.

  • And, finally, this storage problem.

  • And, to dimensionalize this, I went through and looked at

  • all the types of batteries that get made,

  • for cars, for computers, for phones, for flashlights, for everything,

  • and compared that to the amount of electrical energy the world uses,

  • and what I found is that all the batteries we make now

  • could store less than 10 minutes of all the energy.

  • And so, in fact, we need a big breakthrough here,

  • something that's going to be a factor of a hundred better

  • than the approaches we have now.

  • It's not impossible, but it's not a very easy thing.

  • Now, this shows up when you try to get the intermittent source

  • to be above, say, 20 to 30 percent of what you're using.

  • If you're counting on it for 100 percent,

  • you need an incredible miracle battery.

  • Now, how we're going to go forward on this: what's the right approach?

  • Is it a Manhattan project? What's the thing that can get us there?

  • Well, we need lots of companies working on this, hundreds.

  • In each of these five paths, we need at least a hundred people.

  • And a lot of them, you'll look at and say they're crazy. That's good.

  • And, I think, here in the TED group,

  • we have many people who are already pursuing this.

  • Bill Gross has several companies, including one called eSolar

  • that has some great solar thermal technologies.

  • Vinod Khosla's investing in dozens of companies

  • that are doing great things and have interesting possibilities,

  • and I'm trying to help back that.

  • Nathan Myhrvold and I actually are backing a company

  • that, perhaps surprisingly, is actually taking the nuclear approach.

  • There are some innovations in nuclear: modular, liquid.

  • And innovation really stopped in this industry quite some ago,

  • so the idea that there's some good ideas laying around is not all that surprising.

  • The idea of Terrapower is that, instead of burning a part of uranium,

  • the one percent, which is the U235,

  • we decided, let's burn the 99 percent, the U238.

  • It is kind of a crazy idea.

  • In fact, people had talked about it for a long time,

  • but they could never simulate properly whether it would work or not,

  • and so it's through the advent of modern supercomputers

  • that now you can simulate and see that, yes,

  • with the right material's approach, this looks like it would work.

  • And, because you're burning that 99 percent,

  • you have greatly improved cost profile.

  • You actually burn up the waste, and you can actually use as fuel

  • all the leftover waste from today's reactors.

  • So, instead of worrying about them, you just take that. It's a great thing.

  • It breathes this uranium as it goes along. So it's kind of like a candle.

  • You can see it's a log there, often referred to as a traveling wave reactor.

  • In terms of fuel, this really solves the problem.

  • I've got a picture here of a place in Kentucky.

  • This is the left over, the 99 percent,

  • where they've taken out the part they burn now,

  • so it's called depleted uranium.

  • That would power the U.S. for hundreds of years.

  • And, simply by filtering sea water in an inexpensive process,

  • you'd have enough fuel for the entire lifetime of the rest of the planet.

  • So, you know, it's got lots of challenges ahead,

  • but it is an example of the many hundreds and hundreds of ideas

  • that we need to move forward.

  • So let's think, how should we measure ourselves?

  • What should our report card look like?

  • Well, let's go out to where we really need to get,

  • and then look at the intermediate.

  • For 2050, you've heard many people talk about this 80 percent reduction.

  • That really is very important, that we get there.

  • And that 20 percent will be used up by things going on in poor countries,

  • still some agriculture.

  • Hopefully, we will have cleaned up forestry, cement.

  • So, to get to that 80 percent,

  • the developed countries, including countries like China,

  • will have had to switch their electricity generation altogether.

  • So, the other grade is, are we deploying this zero-emission technology,

  • have we deployed it in all the developed countries

  • and we're in the process of getting it elsewhere.

  • That's super important.

  • That's a key element of making that report card.

  • So, backing up from there, what should the 2020 report card look like?

  • Well, again, it should have the two elements.

  • We should go through these efficiency measures to start getting reductions.

  • The less we emit, the less that sum will be of CO2,

  • and, therefore, the less the temperature.

  • But in some ways, the grade we get there,

  • doing things that don't get us all the way to the big reductions,

  • is only equally, or maybe even slightly less, important than the other,

  • which is the piece of innovation on these breakthroughs.

  • These breakthroughs, we need to move those at full speed,

  • and we can measure that in terms of companies,

  • pilot projects, regulatory things that have been changed.

  • There's a lot of great books that have been written about this.

  • The Al Gore book, "Our Choice"

  • and the David McKay book, "Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air."

  • They really go through it and create a framework

  • that this can be discussed broadly,

  • because we need broad backing for this.

  • There's a lot that has to come together.

  • So this is a wish.

  • It's a very concrete wish that we invent this technology.

  • If you gave me only one wish for the next 50 years,

  • I could pick who's president,

  • I could pick a vaccine, which is something I love,

  • or I could pick that this thing

  • that's half the cost with no CO2 gets invented,

  • this is the wish I would pick.

  • This is the one with the greatest impact.

  • If we don't get this wish,

  • the division between the people who think short term and long term will be terrible,

  • between the U.S. and China, between poor countries and rich,

  • and most of all the lives of those two billion will be far worse.

  • So, what do we have to do?

  • What am I appealing to you to step forward and drive?

  • We need to go for more research funding.

  • When countries get together in places like Copenhagen,

  • they shouldn't just discuss the CO2.

  • They should discuss this innovation agenda,

  • and you'd be stunned at the ridiculously low levels of spending

  • on these innovative approaches.

  • We do need the market incentives, CO2 tax, cap and trade,

  • something that gets that price signal out there.

  • We need to get the message out.

  • We need to have this dialogue be a more rational, more understandable dialogue,

  • including the steps that the government takes.

  • This is an important wish, but it is one I think we can achieve.

  • Thank you.

  • (Applause)

  • Thank you.

  • Chris Anderson: Thank you. Thank you.

  • (Applause)

  • Thank you. Just so I understand more about Terrapower, right --

  • I mean, first of all, can you give a sense of what scale of investment this is?

  • Bil Gates: To actually do the software, buy the supercomputer,

  • hire all the great scientists, which we've done,

  • that's only tens of millions,

  • and even once we test our materials out in a Russian reactor

  • to make sure our materials work properly,

  • then you'll only be up in the hundreds of millions.

  • The tough thing is building the pilot reactor,

  • finding the several billion, finding the regulator, the location

  • that will actually build the first one of these.

  • Once you get the first one built, if it works as advertised,

  • then it's just clear as day, because the economics, the energy density,

  • are so different than nuclear as we know it.

  • CA: And so, to understand it right, this involves building deep into the ground

  • almost like a vertical kind of column of nuclear fuel,

  • of this sort of spent uranium,

  • and then the process starts at the top and kind of works down?

  • BG: That's right. Today, you're always refueling the reactor,

  • so you have lots of people and lots of controls that can go wrong,

  • that thing where you're opening it up and moving things in and out.

  • That's not good.

  • So, if you have very cheap fuel that you can put 60 years in --

  • just think of it as a log --

  • put it down and not have those same complexities.

  • And it just sits there and burns for the sixty years, and then it's done.

  • CA: It's a nuclear power plant that is its own waste disposal solution.

  • BG: Yeah. Well, what happens with the waste,

  • you can let it sit there -- there's a lot less waste under this approach --

  • then you can actually take that,

  • and put it into another one and burn that.

  • And we start off actually by taking the waste that exists today,

  • that's sitting in these cooling pools or dry casking by reactor.

  • That's our fuel to begin with.

  • So, the thing that's been a problem from those reactors

  • is actually what gets fed into ours,

  • and you're reducing the volume of the waste quite dramatically

  • as you're going through this process.

  • CA: But in your talking to different people around the world

  • about the possibilities here,

  • where is there most interest in actually doing something with this?

  • BG: Well, we haven't picked a particular place,

  • and there's all these interesting disclosure rules about anything that's called nuclear,

  • so we've got a lot of interest,

  • that people from the company have been in Russia, India, China.

  • I've been back seeing the secretary of energy here,

  • talking about how this fits into the energy agenda.

  • So I'm optimistic. You know the French and Japanese have done some work.

  • This is a variant on something that has been done.

  • It's an important advance, but it's like a fast reactor,

  • and a lot of countries have built them,

  • so anybody who's done a fast reactor, is a candidate to be where the first one gets built.

  • CA: So, in your mind, timescale and likelihood

  • of actually taking something like this live?

  • BG: Well, we need, for one of these high-scale, electro-generation things

  • that's very cheap,

  • we have 20 years to invent and then 20 years to deploy.

  • That's sort of the deadline that the environmental models

  • have shown us that we have to meet.

  • And, you know, Terrapower, if things go well, which is wishing for a lot,

  • could easily meet that.

  • And there are, fortunately now, dozens of companies,

  • we need it to be hundreds,

  • who, likewise, if their science goes well,

  • if the funding for their pilot plants goes well,

  • that they can compete for this.

  • And it's best if multiple succeed,

  • because then you could use a mix of these things.

  • We certainly need one to succeed.

  • CA: In terms of big-scale possible game changes,

  • is this the biggest that you're aware of out there?

  • BG: An energy breakthrough is the most important thing.

  • It would have been, even without the environmental constraint,

  • but the environmental constraint just makes it so much greater.

  • In the nuclear space, there are other innovators.

  • You know, we don't know their work as well as we know this one,

  • but the modular people, that's a different approach.

  • There's a liquid type reactor, which seems a little hard,

  • but maybe they say that about us.

  • And so, there are different ones,

  • but the beauty of this is a molecule of uranium

  • has a million times as much energy as a molecule of, say, coal,

  • and so, if you can deal with the negatives,

  • which are essentially the radiation,

  • the footprint and cost, the potential,

  • in terms of effect on land and various things,

  • is almost in a class of its own.

  • CA: If this doesn't work, then what?

  • Do we have to start taking emergency measures

  • to try and keep the temperature of the earth stable?

  • BG: If you get into that situation,

  • it's like if you've been over-eating, and you're about to have a heart-attack.

  • Then where do you go? You may need heart surgery or something.

  • There is a line of research on what's called geoengineering,

  • which are various techniques that would delay the heating

  • to buy us 20 or 30 years to get our act together.

  • Now, that's just an insurance policy.

  • You hope you don't need to do that.

  • Some people say you shouldn't even work on the insurance policy

  • because it might make you lazy,

  • that you'll keep eating because you know heart surgery will be there to save you.

  • I'm not sure that's wise, given the importance of the problem,

  • but there's now the geoengineering discussion

  • about, should that be in the back pocket in case things happen faster,

  • or this innovation goes a lot slower than we expect.

  • CA: Climate skeptics: if you had a sentence or two to say to them,

  • how might you persuade them that they're wrong?

  • BG: Well, unfortunately, the skeptics come in different camps.

  • The ones who make scientific arguments are very few.

  • Are they saying there's negative feedback effects

  • that have to do with clouds that offset things?

  • There are very, very few things that they can even say

  • there's a chance in a million of those things.

  • The main problem we have here is kind of like AIDS.

  • You make the mistake now, and you pay for it a lot later.

  • And so, when you have all sorts of urgent problems,

  • the idea of taking pain now that has to do with a gain later --

  • and a somewhat uncertain pain thing.

  • In fact, the IPCC report, that's not necessarily the worst case,

  • and there are people in the rich world who look at IPCC

  • and say, okay, that isn't that big of a deal.

  • The fact is it's that uncertain part that should move us towards this.

  • But my dream here is that, if you can make it economic,

  • and meet the CO2 constraints,

  • then the skeptics say, okay,

  • I don't care that it doesn't put out CO2,

  • I kind of wish it did put out CO2,

  • but I guess I'll accept it because it's cheaper than what's come before.

  • (Applause)

  • CA: And so, that would be your response to the Bjorn Lomborg argument,

  • that basically if you spend all this energy trying to solve the CO2 problem,

  • it's going to take away all your other goals

  • of trying to rid the world of poverty and malaria and so forth,

  • [that] it's a stupid waste of the Earth's resources to put money towards that

  • when there are better things we can do.

  • BG: Well, the actual spending on the R&D piece --

  • say the U.S. should spend 10 billion a year more than it is right now --

  • it's not that dramatic.

  • It shouldn't take away from other things.

  • The thing you get into big money on, and this, reasonable people can disagree,

  • is when you have something that's non-economic and you're trying to fund that.

  • That, to me, mostly is a waste.

  • Unless you're very close and you're just funding the learning curve

  • and it's going to get very cheap.

  • I believe we should try more things that have a potential

  • to be far less expensive.

  • If the trade-off you get into is, let's make energy super expensive,

  • then the rich can afford that.

  • I mean, all of us here could pay five times as much for our energy

  • and not change our lifestyle.

  • The disaster is for that two billion.

  • And even Lomborg has changed.

  • His shtick now is, why isn't the R&D getting discussed more.

  • He's still, because of his earlier stuff,

  • still associated with the skeptic camp,

  • but he's realized that's a pretty lonely camp,

  • and so, he's making the R&D point.

  • And so there is a thread of something that I think is appropriate.

  • The R&D piece, it's crazy how little it's funded.

  • CA: Well Bill, I suspect I speak on the behalf of most people here

  • to say, I really hope your wish comes true. Thank you so much.

  • BG: Thank you.

  • (Applause)

I'm going to talk today about energy and climate.

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