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  • Good afternoon and welcome to recruitment stuff with May the re strikes from UK creator and Steve Know Donald, who's my co host today we're joined by poor Lloyd from Brooks.

  • And on I will introduce Pour in a minute.

  • First, I'd just like to say thank you too far fish who sponsor our students but like a reality porn company whose sponsor our live chats.

  • But fish is a sales marketing recruitment platform which helps recruiters to reach, engage in place more candidates like very much for sponsoring us.

  • So pull.

  • You are head of business development at books and books and our professional service is business covering Accountancy Onda Umbrella Solutions on Paul.

  • You specialize in working with equipment agencies in my right, we're talking today about I are 35 So we've got some questions which we've set up ahead of time.

  • Happy to take engagement from the audience down the side bar.

  • We've got a pole at the bottom.

  • Which of you any of your scroll down?

  • We'll see and ask if you're confident that you understand.

  • I are 35 do you think is a risk to your agency If you get I are 35 Wrong on a worm in the West Ng the not entirely confident about understanding our 35 which I guess is the purpose of this This send the show.

  • So what do you want to kick off with the nave of view of what?

  • Before we talk about the changes of what I are 35 actually is protein employment, but in their contracts, a marketplace.

  • And ideally, what that means is that if a worker is, um seemed to be in the same role as a full time equivalent, I work for the same working practices.

  • This came hours and then another.

  • Royal 35 means that the need to bait traps as an employee.

  • Really, I'm like, Come on dividends as a director of a limit.

  • So the inside that that's where the inside and outside of I R 35 from strongest, you inside.

  • You need to be tucked in insurance.

  • You outside of work?

  • Certainly, in layman's terms, I are 35.

  • Is legislation to stop people from, uh, playing this play in the system to take advantage off, see a limited company status to what take their earnings from that as opposed to paying normal tax Absolutely.

  • When they first come in full s o u t 1000 times 35 was brought in and it's always bean people thio private public sector.

  • No matter which secretary that area you worked in the same until April of this year, the government reform that they just ran off.

  • So in particular for recruitment agencies, Ho does.

  • How does this affect recruitment agencies who are placing people in contracts for any number of professions on those individuals might be either employed by the agency or employed by their own limited company or any number of partnerships.

  • And I are 35.

  • How does that impact recriminations is in that sense?

  • So with your approval agency that work working one of three ways to please and I'll be tax peeling away through the agency people system, they would bind up brother from plea on our tax do enough insurance contributions and a suitable complainant spent sort actually on their expenses.

  • Workers people limited the weather and a director that limited company people this year it would have very little impact on recruitment agencies to the contractor to make the determination on whether they were suitable to work as a director of a limited company or not see that's changed ways.

  • Roles that place but in the public sector and the determination is now down to the end.

  • Violence on the payoff for the agency that being in the week long their usual usually liable for the tax.

  • That's the main change that we saw in April.

  • Yes, there is a fundamental change in who makes the determination of the accused.

  • Mr Brennan penalties on pe tup.

  • So previously it's always been a contractor.

  • They made their own determination, whether they did that themselves, either accounting, legal, professional and on the risk was also there when he will pay taxes.

  • Much insurance was also the contractors, the key fundamental changes that the determination is made by the appliance.

  • So the company of the organization, with someone at work, Andi the rescue anyone pay tax lost insurance actually sits with the person that's more populous, paying, dealing or no, only the agency.

  • So if an agency gets it wrong, they reliable for ah for any fines and so on or unpaid taxes.

  • Yes, they come in the year.

  • So if the end clients said that the work is outside of I R 35 on the agency, pays and roast HMRC determine that they should have been inside of I R 35 Faith be a body much insurance contributions, and it could be liable for the difference.

  • Tax has been paid, and it's important the agency's check the way out in front around determination, making sure they've taken and a duty of care to make sure we've done that correctly.

  • So to be precise, what are the factors in that determination to make sure that the agency keeps themselves right?

  • S a t the business to be done by the end clients.

  • Picture Marcie has launched employment status service till they seize on my until could be used for the investment.

  • So you gave up sex with someone should be inside or outside of my authority.

  • The new placements produced a thought.

  • It's probably a little bit easier for recruitment agencies now because they should get up a termination prior to the role going live.

  • So when they find gives the roll through the agents addiction, same that this is going to be on engineering assignment for six months on, this opportunity is gonna be outside of the scope of I 35 inside, the agency should be able to take that assessment from the end finds that is correct.

  • However, if they don't do you want to do further assessment himself, they could use you on my tool that could take it with bikes themselves to make sure that sure, you were okay when people entered into a contract work for the first time on.

  • They've gone from unemployed role.

  • They obviously want to do their homework, or they'll want to get a base to make sure that they're not falling file.

  • But also they'll have heard stories off.

  • Well, if you call a za contractor than you, you you learn x percentage more than you were before hand just because of the tax benefits.

  • Does this mean that there aren't any tax benefits and practical terms for someone doing that?

  • Other than the fact that they might charge more as a contractor S.

  • O if they're excited by all 35 diplomacy tax efficiencies?

  • With that, the way that they construct their limited from need that will also take a director salary in the rest of your dividends, they're obviously going to get better If they don't survive on the very little difference between what you get later and pay through a body umbrella, it's a system is exactly the same year.

  • The changes that most people don't know what happened in April or smarter wear off is that the 5% business allowance results are really for limited completely in the public sector.

  • It used to be another benefit for a limited was that person's loans, so the 1st 5% income will be tax?

  • Bree bring a limited company right about point to a limited completes that would remove the public sector workers as of April.

  • And also there has been a change to the flat rate back scheme to train up from 30 and 1/2 percent 6% which means not beneficial to be registered.

  • The backs of the savings have been narrowed and made it look more with lines, taker and equipment through P.

  • A Y umbrella.

  • He's not very similar.

  • If you're inside of out there, so is this sorry?

  • He likes my question.

  • If you use it a public sector that's want to check that.

  • So if you're a contractor working in the public sector and they've made this change your worse off.

  • Possibly so.

  • It depends on their role on whether that we're always determined to be inside or outside of out there to five drift Yours to be inside of out there.

  • I guess you like to be worse off.

  • And, Timmy, do we?

  • 12 years old.

  • Mmm.

  • And you will Probably not sister be about revenge.

  • Is that a lot of people that have been caught within sight of 35 10 fires?

  • That's what for a rate increase to be able to keep in touch with the government get is actually noticed.

  • Being re spent back through the grating creatures that they happen to give to the public sector is just to keep them on scientists.

  • Yeah.

  • Yeah.

  • So change the public sector.

  • Inclusion will change.

  • So obviously they have made this change specific around the public sector, and they've seen that it's no, actually, maybe having the benefit of house just to pay them.

  • Or is that, like that Will stay the same almighty change again.

  • I don't think they're gonna reverse the decisions.

  • Yeah, I think that the legislation I realize there is a spirit what most people are concerned around is whether it will into the private sector further down the line, they think a moment.

  • Most people feel that it's probably a little bit of a step too far to try and get in.

  • The private sector is well known that something must be looking to the original three years ago, very difficult to do so on on the distinction for the public sector.

  • Is that being done?

  • First of all, because the HMRC have much more of, ah, of an influence on what being done by organizations in the public sector because they're essentially ultimately government funded.

  • Yes, I'm sorry.

  • The signal went a little bit then.

  • I think I would.

  • Most of that detonation of the public sector body is anyone.

  • Let's put it on to the Freedom of Information Act and you're listed within the creature information after a couple of organizations that are listed.

  • Not still Dean, part of the of the bullets that gas this legislation as well with freedom information.

  • Oh yeah, after the recruits, is there a lesson in there's a really useful free website to use called what do they know that from that website?

  • It's actually a native said list of all organizations that are listed within the Freedom of Information Act.

  • Yeah, that means the eking flipped on on the best looking for and London till you get your TV back in there where you can physically see it useful.

  • Three resource.

  • They're not pretty much everyone on the feeder information.

  • The question was asking was Are the are the doing it with the public sector initially?

  • Because, frankly, it would be it would be embarrassing if there was, uh, financial chicken is going on with public organizations on there seem to be more accountable on the HMRC has more influence over them.

  • Yeah, I mean, that's where it all started from.

  • I suppose if you if you go back to the members of Parliament that craving for sharing expenses, I think and they stumbled the crafts and the working as a limited company contractors, then that's where individually very old party from the orbits, that money was being deemed to be mean, spending correctly.

  • And that's where they were on the Legislature.

  • I suppose if you think about it logically, HMRC will try and get their own claims in order before pushing this action to any of the sectors of thinking.

  • Mmm, we're and it works for 12 and supports three years.

  • It's been since I actually, this is now a working project.

  • How it should be going to roll in, drive it sector.

  • Yeah, my personal view not drops into it.

  • It will be very good to meet up for a number of years yet, especially with things like Brexit negotiations here around, I think it would be at least years.

  • I could be completely wrong as well.

  • So they continue.

  • An evolution of I R 35 eyes essentially about closing loopholes that people were using to take advantage off different structures through which they could be paid are there are there Still look holds that people are looking out for whether to be their equipment.

  • Agents who are employing contractors are arranging for the contractor to be working at one of their clients or indeed, the individuals and the contracts looking for Well, what can I do to to sneak it on this?

  • What if I have two or three people under my my limited company?

  • What if my limited companies owned by her indoors and I am an employee?

  • But Noah directed all on dhe these sorts of things, you must continually have people who are looking for ways in which they can legitimately avoid no tax avoidance.

  • Was the other one, huh?

  • No, not evade, but avoid legit, being more tax than they would like.

  • Toe.

  • Yeah, I think that that's always been the same.

  • I think people look for elite old.

  • So if you go back to the changes that were done round STC brought last year.

  • And I think ever since then there's been a rise in the number of people that want to work through Salt Trader Solutions where I think they threw a contractual check in evidence, see, and they would have but to stay away from that because of the legislation that a minute 40 around the onshore offshore, you have immediate region.

  • So in 2014 the use of something probably destroyed a little bit because the agency with no risk the changes around STC last year men that work, then I actually thought it was more financially beneficial to move back towards a sole trader model, but again, But it still sits there with the agency and now in the new team has been made on a limited company.

  • So people, New Ways and Peach Marcie a well aware of that?

  • No, the back is that it increased the top sports in terms have been able to pump down on that kind of abuse.

  • And normally they've been able to do 200 to 250.

  • Reviews of years are pretty low.

  • Numbers be about the marketplaces.

  • They definitely start that up on the table to be, you know, moving forward reviews that they're able to do when they're also looking over schemes just like these on the actual name schemes as well exams it.

  • It seems that fact that they are definitely looking at these.

  • And so are you in the business off advising recruitment agencies themselves and also advising them on how they can advise their contractors to, for example, have the contractors or in terms of business, to say that if I'm no available to do this work on Monday, I have another member of staff to do that.

  • That then means that I'm not the the tight end person for less work.

  • I can replace myself if you replaced.

  • So basically what I'm saying is, do you give the advice that act to the agency and then, by extension, to the contract to make sure that everyone is shipshape.

  • Yes, we can.

  • The U S.

  • O Brooks and there's a group of a leading part from financial service is legal service is I'm CR Canton, sea of brother Justin.

  • There's lots of parts to groups groups not will do the constancy of umbrellas.

  • Davis will give advice to the contractors to you make sure that they're choosing the best way of working for them guidance on that and then let him quit.

  • And they need advice during that process in terms of buying 35.

  • Then we could give them advice.

  • Very important.

  • Also do more than that.

  • Refer them into Robert's legal service business and rocks in the universe is a fully flexible from regulated by, yes, IRA, the Arabs and by all 35 years against that will be no me.

  • Where we repair any, want you to know that it's not the same thing, but it's reminding me of ah scenario.

  • Years ago, I was recruiting for a client on DDE.

  • This was, ah, plastics injection molding company on the casting firms in the Birmingham area on the chairman of the company.

  • I hired the brother who treated in stocks and shares and futures and someone they devised a method through which they paid all members of staff in Cocoa Bean futures on.

  • Of course, I then had to be given the chapter and verse on Ho to sail this to potential employees.

  • So everyone was paid, I think, the minimum of the time to pay the bare minimum off national shoots a p a y.

  • Certain Russian ships on the the remainder of the salary was was lent to them on a monthly basis, but they would also paid X number of cocoa bean futures, which were then settled up every quarter.

  • And sometimes they had made a slight profit sometimes admit a slight lost.

  • But of course.

  • What, then was that put the onus on the employees to pay their own full national Children stamp on any tax and so on?

  • But the big advantage for the employer was that they weren't playing the one paying nearly as much as they would have been in employers contribution for financial insurance so that you know these canes off look, polls and tricks and so on.

  • You here.

  • But the trick from years ago, where stock brokers will be paid in gold bars Is it the case that the loopholes are no being?

  • We're running a little holes are the continually finding new ways in which you can get in the system?

  • Yeah, I think, moves to the lead roles now a role in the cracking down on them so that their issue in Etienne's advance payment notifications to people that they are where they that they were able to you, that you have magnification stay back there a road, just do they what we call upscale and give compliance.

  • They're trying to steal the compliance officer flight shape.

  • I mean by that is previously been I mean, it's agent.

  • It's a risk for things like the actual loan schemes and misuse of the sole trader models.

  • Now, anyone in the public sector again, the agency liable on the legislation that was the intermediate born on the kinds of risks they're definitely trying to upset about compliance and even around legislation that brought in around umbrella Austria ourselves in the development piece, that reliable incorrectly doing that determination.

  • So yes, sir.

  • Meatball brand new sort of loopholes in terms of that in this actor that we work into getting set mostly pretty well clued up on the rest of agencies are responsible for making the determination on unreliable if they get that wrong.

  • Are you finding the agencies are playing on the safe side on Dhe calling almost everyone okay, Way.

  • Determine the year inside with insight is inside is the right time.

  • Yeah, So you inside right turn?

  • Yes, sir.

  • The city is then find that would be the one that's making this determination, whether the contract inside or outside about five.

  • The agency that's liable for the tax.

  • I think for the first few, few weeks, six weeks, everyone was pretty.

  • What are we being a little bit cautious?

  • Used to that process a little bit now?

  • We definitely saw a general slowing down of the markets open and get a bill from a wide spread of agency.

  • There was a definite slowdown in the whole of the market.

  • We throughout April and May.

  • I know this are being seen to be inside, and if you look at someone like and it just I want to get it and just improved organisation and ran March April time they gave Tim Nation that every role was gonna be inside of I 35 captured.

  • And in a statement recently, that kind of contradicts that to say that the assessment should be doing and that something could be inside some people, so that is bound to be needy, a reaction of people trying to make sure that definitely complied immediately.

  • What's name starting to stop a little bit of people taking the right message to to do that.

  • So what was the overlap of any with the use of an umbrella company?

  • A.

  • Supposed to that My own limited company, for example.

  • Yes, that's the only overlap there really is that that is the easiest solution for someone to move to their written side of I.

  • R.

  • 35 we contractors 1500 that have been deemed inside out there to five the opportunity to be paid.

  • That's why the doctor will be paid next into that lunatic property and then into a dormant states and move back to the umbrella.

  • And when they got future assignments, they can.

  • What if they're outside by the fire?

  • That could be a gross utility company again If private sector assignment between a number of contractors.

  • Move well that sector assignments, private sector assignments where they come because the difference in the private sector and we're limited company so and so that was the link between the two is that it's probably easiest solution for a contract.

  • The aid is that they are captured by the virus to move to the U Look for recruiter.

  • What they're leading to keep a handle on is what is best with the contractor until a good understanding of when an umbrella company could be relevant, but also to have a good understanding of legislation to ensure that what determination their client is making is not gonna land them in hot water.

  • So they're balancing both parts, and I guess that's when they come to someone like you to get a review of their contract base.

  • Yeah, absolutely, yes.

  • So we can do it.

  • Legal reviews.

  • That song has taken our county bucket to get reviews for your charge, but over the last six months we've seen more and more agencies from into wanted to utilize those review service is I want off the as a one off was that long going thing if there is really, I think if if they captured inside, I certify that he probably didn't review until they change their assignments.

  • And the guidance is that it should have contractors have review ideally, every three months, or certainly every time they change their assignments, come to their They worked in practice is not contractual.

  • Trapped themselves in or outside of the device is that very thing.

  • They're working practices.

  • So it's importantly if they have a changing working practices to get reviewed all they see, I think I think that recruiters who do Perma crooner thinking this doesn't have any impact on me at all.

  • But more and more as you work in this big economy wants lows to say the words more freedom of movement and more people looking for more temper assignment is going to become far more relevant to people who have never thought that they need to concern themselves with this type of legislation.

  • I guess even if you've only got five contractors, you've still gotta make sure you write as an agency that was lately, Yeah, I want to touch this beginning.

  • What's the penalty likely to be what sort of figures have you seen bullied around the recruitment agencies might have to pay if they got it wrong.

  • So there isn't any hard and fast rule on what will be there in terms of how the old are 35 rules applied, it would be any unpaid tax showrooms.

  • What's possible?

  • Fines, but no determination around that, if you look at it sort of similar piece of legislation in 2012 Hey Jen, territory directed rather than a piece of legislation that meant it's you've been very similar where work will pay either between £20 a day and engaged for over six months of two bodies.

  • It was the public sector, bodies and job to check that determination.

  • That meant that some of their bullets, that body received fines and they drop to five or six times.

  • You don't pay touched tax and national insurance.

  • The difficulty with this new or changing this legislation is that there isn't any case because it's a nuclear nation.

  • Have been through this process yet, and it all them secretly.

  • The five rules free April this year that it would just be the unpaid stops induction Children.

  • What's any possible times?

  • That's not an issue if you got to contractors out.

  • But it is.

  • If you've got 900 it depends on the size of the contract.

  • I assume you any more questions and I are 35 before I ask about other.

  • Just know I'm pretty comfortable.

  • I suppose the recruiter and me is always thinking Well, you know what?

  • What sort of examples off sneakiness of jiggery pokery are going on on DA.

  • You must find yourself in a position where you're saying two ages.

  • Look, you just can't do that.

  • Yes, this is a lot of people understand.

  • A lot of agents from recruiting agencies will say, Surely there must be a way around it.

  • That must be the solution to this.

  • And generally I think it might have actually, the light that changes the legislation they've made that they probably gonna give you a job.

  • A tie in this one down pretty tight after intern.

  • They introduced the offshore Legislation 2014 being distressed, you see, in 2016 and they brought in reporting requirements.

  • So actually that every recruitment agencies submitting a quarterly report from HMRC on all their contractors and probably getting paid.

  • There was a piece of legislation brought in a year or two ago, essentially whereby HMRC were given the powers that if they even if, according to the letter of the law, you were doing everything correct.

  • But they were able to assess that by doing so you were minimally manipulating the situation to gain a tax advantage that you shouldn't be ableto they could assess that that tax was ju.

  • Would that be applicable?

  • Unnecessary circumstance?

  • Yes, that's the target.

  • Dante avoided rooms that quite powers on Would that be applicable?

  • In this instance, people try find ways around it.

  • So the idea behind targeted anti avoidance regulations or yours is is that I've got powers to go and look at different types of steams or models that have been set up to purposely avoid the regulations that place that, yes, that they could use their parents.

  • I suppose that's where I think they do Holy parking job at Titan in this legislation for a couple of years and you take a leap polls that, rather than trying to enforce, I have 35.

  • Now we can spend more time looking at that steam up 85 90% taken a the actual lane steams and types of schemes that are out there that need to be aware off.

  • Okay, I've got a question from your origins.

  • Great question.

  • It's a popular crew to question.

  • So is as a recruiter if you put someone as inside.

  • So the contractor, but their contractor later proves they are outside could use the agency be hit for a lawful deduction from earnings or similar.

  • So what happens if your client gets it wrong on that contract?

  • Has been paying more when they needn't.

  • Yeah, again, it's a really good press to.

  • Actually, it's quite difficult to answer again because there isn't any takes longer.

  • So that happens.

  • And the likelihood is that contract themselves on the agency have the ability thio question the decision.

  • That defiance, I think they contacted feel strongly that they should be outside of it.

  • Five agents and feels that and they should be questioned knocked on testing that the client immediately, rather than reaching for six or 12 months down the line on tractors and then also got the right thio Iran into Goth Marcie to question that decision as well.

  • So if they went to get the impression that decision picture must be agreed that they will be outside out there, and I think there's a way that they can.

  • They can reclaim that about tax, very cumbersome process.

  • Tax return, then the likelihood of that, I think, is pretty slim.

  • I think a contract you wanted to take my picture.

  • Marcie around the rules liability by likely.

  • And what?

  • There is our opportunity to challenge their decisions that have been made on discuss them as well, something that gave the contractor.

  • And if young clients may, the determination that besting the agency could be responding and incidently contract to say, and then I'll definitely be outside.

  • It's a little legal advice on this planet that there that specializing in need advice, especially about five unemployment lost, make sure make sure you get some employment.

  • Yeah, yeah, on the same same person.

  • Think it's so has said.

  • As HMRC have said they will stand by their diagnostic tour.

  • Let's hope the agency can uses their defense on that diagnostic tool is the one I think I share, but the top, their attack service's check employment, they just that's one.

  • Is it that they have?

  • Yes, they said that stunned by the decision based on the information important after it.

  • So that would be the point.

  • Reyes.

  • They're based on the information being accurate.

  • Obviously, it purposely you want to try and get the right outcome on more or the agency's bulletin.

  • Then again, it's just one thing that people need to be aware off and observed that donations don't correctly.

  • That should get us on the agency.

  • Okay, Andi on your website says anything now churning out.

  • There's a I R 35 explained Page.

  • We also has the wants a white paper, but it's a guide.

  • That is more details.

  • There's a victory.

  • Ask questions and a guide there, and I'll include that in my block post as well, so we can download that something that's quite useful before we go.

  • Can I ask you about other legislation changes particularly pertinent to recruiters?

  • Yes, I suppose that could most of them, probably within the time that we have a supposed we've talked a lot of the actual lanes games, which is super brings to the agency.

  • Certainly, over the last 12 to 18 months, you seeing a rise in the in the requirement, so trade relations, especially direction set business C.

  • I s still trading model more more popular.

  • So just making sure that processes follow route and that the the prison director of control test it is up to the right standard in the agency's comfortable without themselves.

  • But again, that will put the agency in risk.

  • Yeah, and then the younger ones to be wary of, I suppose, because of the changes to the expenses legislation in 2016 from brother on, there are some different types of umbrella stations out in the marketplace that our little strange in certain ways that they were.

  • So those things like you retained expensive model because the summary sacrifice room's changed A that things like that where the contractor talked that can't get their money back.

  • If you're not playing the right level of expenses, contract some of them fine.

  • In terms of legislation, it's just that small amount morally right.

  • I get the ice on my advice, recommended your religion that be your associates in your brown under your recommended?

  • Yeah, we'll be at some place.

  • And you know that device you're using our legitimate.

  • They've been audited that you're gonna go to I don't know, each name any now.

  • But is that something that she would give advice on to?

  • Recruitment Consultancy was coming to you.

  • Would you get the recommendations for umbrellas?

  • So people are unsure in a market which I know has had quite a lot of bad reputation, They could have ice from you on people who you would be comfortable for recuperating to work with.

  • Yeah, actually, yes.

  • Over everything.

  • We know the industry really well.

  • You've been putting 21 years.

  • We'll be with you in just under the marketplace.

  • And in terms of ord, it's Actually it's a really good opportunity for that.

  • So absolutely free renouncing contractor service is a situation and they were set up.

  • So you help compliance within the industry, and it's quite strict order you have to go through to be a member.

  • So we go through the order every year, were audited by on the top floor attention to burns.

  • Remind people E C M g will complete the audit and the water is then submitted Team are settling in.

  • Well, you know they're gonna be compliant.

  • So that's my recommendation.

  • That way I can and I think that on their website for this found it a growing list of members, and they have years, therefore, members that you should be looking for that.

  • Yeah, the credited members.

  • Yes, there's accredited associates.

  • Associate members haven't been through the old TV subsets find to be compliant.

  • So there's 11 or 12 credited members of the reforms that will be seen through that process.

  • Who asked?

  • You know what I think?

  • So I'm sure that's not true that book.

  • So when Stevens go in?

  • Yes, even.

  • Well, I hope you didn't have a really important question for you.

  • There is nothing else that you think we need to couple.

  • Are you happy that we've probably given quite a good overview of the I R 35 right?

  • Yeah, that's a pretty name you that's up to Billy.

  • It's It's only been a lot of work rose over the past couple of months, and a lot of different scenarios have been through more than happy to give any any advice or guidance or talk to people about legislation Assistant.

  • That's great.

  • So this video going to block post, I'll put your contact the joining in profile contact details on that so that people could get in touch if they have any other questions.

  • So thank you very much.

  • Pull and thank you.

  • Most of our fish for sponsoring this live chat.

  • We are back next Wednesday.

  • I think we're talking about way talk about a I next Wednesday, so couldn't get any further from this s o thank you again for on.

  • Don't we'll see.

  • Thank you much.

Good afternoon and welcome to recruitment stuff with May the re strikes from UK creator and Steve Know Donald, who's my co host today we're joined by poor Lloyd from Brooks.

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