Subtitles section Play video Print subtitles Joining us now to discuss this case is Edward Condon, D C. Bureau chief for Catholic News Agency and a canon lawyer. And welcome back to the show. So Ed Cardinal Pell lost his initial peel last year. Do you think there's any reason that he's gonna win this time? Absolutely High court in Canberra have taken this case for a reason, which is not only is it of national and international prominence, but there were really sustained criticisms of the decision that was reached by the Supreme Court in the state of Victoria last year. There were questions about an inversion of the principle of innocent until proven guilty that effectively Cardinal Pell had been considered guilty and ask to prove himself innocent. And I was gonna ask that, Why do you? And you just kind of mentioned it, But let's recap it again. Why do you think they agreed to hear this appeal? Anything else that you can talk about? Absolutely. I mean, this is a case that everyone is watching, not just in the Catholic circles, but really, what a lot of people are seeing. Is the Australian judiciary on trial? Is it possible for someone to get a fair trial in a case of sexual abuse because not Justin Cardinal Pell's case. But in a number of cases like this, you're dealing with testimony from victims that is, in some cases, decades old, that, you know it's difficult to Ryan Cooperating evidence is the word of a single accuser enough to convict some. And can you take us through this timetable? The appeals expected to be heard in March. What happens after that? How long will all this you know, this entire process take Well, we've got this two day hearing. After that. We really don't know how long we're in for a weight. The judges will take a long as they take to review it. You know, we had the Supreme Court in Victoria hearing the case. It was, you know, quite some time for them to reach a decision. And I think, really, the judges here will take as long as they feel is necessary. Obviously, Cardinal Pell from pains in prison and in solitary confinement much of the time, so he's probably going to be hoping it will be sooner rather than later. Anything else we need to know about this case, I don't think so. I think this is something that's grabbed a lot of people's attention across the world, and I think it's going to continue to merit that attention. You're going to switch gears here a little bit. The Washington Post reported earlier today that former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick gave $1 million to a scandal hit religious order. What do you know about this? Well, we know that the money came in the form of several gifts over a period of years, up until I think 2017 was the last time he gave it. These were in installments up to sort of $50,000 usually less than that, but on a regular basis. And all of this money came through something called the Archbishop's Fund, which we've been reporting on for over a year now, which was basically a charity that McCarrick set up when he was archbishop of Washington. And he used to make private donations from money that he raised personally, and he kept control of this fund even in retirement. Although it was technically arch diocesan money as you well know, McCarrick's coat of arms was removed from ST Matthew's Cathedral here in Washington, D. C. What do you think about that decision? Well, it was something that Archbishop Gregory made person was a decision he made personally When he arrived in the archdiocese. He told us it was part of moving on and turning a page and hopefully offering some sense of closure to victims of Cardinal McCarrick, as he was then. But a lot of other Catholics in this diocese has said, you know, well, hang on. He is, for better or for worse than, in McCarrick's case, definitely for worse part of our history. We can't just ignore that any new details about the McCarrick report that you know about anything you can tell us? Well, we keep getting this sort of rolling updates from American bishops as they proceed to Rome to make their had limited visits with Pope Francis. And everyone sort of says soon, we hope soon we know it's finished. We're waiting for the pope. We've had carnal peril in the Vatican. Secretary of State say that the report is completely finalized there, waiting for the pope. It's his final decision will be published. Cardinal Supercharge Chicago recently said he expected the report, published sometime in March. Of course, the report was promised either late last year or early this year, and we're well into February. Now. We really don't know the day or the time. It will be up to the pope. Thank you so much as always a pleasure.