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  • AND UP NEXT IT IS "HARDBALL" WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS.

  • WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS. >>> THE WHISTLEBLOWER VERSUS THE

  • >>> THE WHISTLEBLOWER VERSUS THE TWEETER.

  • TWEETER. LET’S PLAY HARDBALL.

  • LET’S PLAY HARDBALL. GOOD EVENING, I’M CHRIS MATTHEWS

  • GOOD EVENING, I’M CHRIS MATTHEWS IN WASHINGTON.

  • IN WASHINGTON. FOR TEN DAYS NOW RUNNING IN FACT

  • FOR TEN DAYS NOW RUNNING IN FACT THIS PRESIDENT HAS ATTACKED AND

  • THIS PRESIDENT HAS ATTACKED AND ATTACKED THE WHISTLEBLOWER WHO

  • ATTACKED THE WHISTLEBLOWER WHO DARED TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE

  • DARED TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHAT TRUMP WAS UP TO IN TRADING

  • WHAT TRUMP WAS UP TO IN TRADING U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY FOR

  • U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY FOR SOMETHING HE COULD USE AGAINST

  • SOMETHING HE COULD USE AGAINST HIS POLITICAL RIVALS.

  • HIS POLITICAL RIVALS. IT IS ALL ABOUT TRUMP TRYING TO

  • IT IS ALL ABOUT TRUMP TRYING TO HIDE HIS WRONGDOING NOW BY

  • HIDE HIS WRONGDOING NOW BY MAKING THIS ABOUT HOW HE WAS

  • MAKING THIS ABOUT HOW HE WAS CAUGHT IN THE WRONGDOING.

  • CAUGHT IN THE WRONGDOING. UNABLE TO JUSTIFY HIS BETRAYAL

  • UNABLE TO JUSTIFY HIS BETRAYAL TRUMP’S ATTACKING THE MESSENGER

  • TRUMP’S ATTACKING THE MESSENGER OF COURSE.

  • OF COURSE. LIKE A BOSS IN THE RACKETS HE

  • LIKE A BOSS IN THE RACKETS HE CALLS THE WHISTLEBLOWER’S

  • CALLS THE WHISTLEBLOWER’S SOURCES SPIES AND OBSESSES ABOUT

  • SOURCES SPIES AND OBSESSES ABOUT FINDING OUT THE PERSON EMPHASIS

  • FINDING OUT THE PERSON EMPHASIS TRUE IDENTITY WHICH THE LAW SAYS

  • TRUE IDENTITY WHICH THE LAW SAYS SHOULD BE PROTECTED.

  • SHOULD BE PROTECTED. TRUMP TODAY TWEETED WHY AREN’T

  • TRUMP TODAY TWEETED WHY AREN’T WE ENTITLED TO LEARN ININTERVIEW

  • WE ENTITLED TO LEARN ININTERVIEW THE WHISTLEBLOWER AND ALSO THE

  • THE WHISTLEBLOWER AND ALSO THE PERSON WHO GAVE FALSE

  • PERSON WHO GAVE FALSE INFORMATION TO HIM.

  • INFORMATION TO HIM. TRUMP IS CAUGHT AND REFUSES TO

  • TRUMP IS CAUGHT AND REFUSES TO ADMIT.

  • ADMIT. THE FAKE WHISTLEBLOWER HE

  • THE FAKE WHISTLEBLOWER HE TWEETS, ISN’T HOLDING UP AND

  • TWEETS, ISN’T HOLDING UP AND SAYS HE OR SHE ISN’T A

  • SAYS HE OR SHE ISN’T A WHISTLEBLOWER AFTER ALL.

  • WHISTLEBLOWER AFTER ALL. WELL, IT’S ALL ABOUT PART OF

  • WELL, IT’S ALL ABOUT PART OF WHAT "THE WASHINGTON POST"

  • WHAT "THE WASHINGTON POST" CHARACTERIZED AS AN INCREASINGLY

  • CHARACTERIZED AS AN INCREASINGLY FRENETIC COUNTER ASSAULT

  • FRENETIC COUNTER ASSAULT TARGETING THE ANONYMOUS

  • TARGETING THE ANONYMOUS INTELLIGENCE OFFICER.

  • INTELLIGENCE OFFICER. TRUMP’S STRATEGY, HOWEVER,

  • TRUMP’S STRATEGY, HOWEVER, IGNORES THE FACT THE

  • IGNORES THE FACT THE WHISTLEBLOWER’S COMPLAINT IS NOW

  • WHISTLEBLOWER’S COMPLAINT IS NOW BESIDE THE POINT BECAUSE TRUMP’S

  • BESIDE THE POINT BECAUSE TRUMP’S WRONGDOING IS ALREADY

  • WRONGDOING IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED, WELL-ESTABLISHED BY

  • ESTABLISHED, WELL-ESTABLISHED BY THE WHITE HOUSE SUMMARY OF HIS

  • THE WHITE HOUSE SUMMARY OF HIS CALL WITH UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT

  • CALL WITH UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT ZELENSKY.

  • ZELENSKY. RESPONDING TO THE PRESIDENT’S

  • RESPONDING TO THE PRESIDENT’S ATTACKS ON THE WHISTLEBLOWER

  • ATTACKS ON THE WHISTLEBLOWER DEMOCRATIC SENATOR MARK WARNER

  • DEMOCRATIC SENATOR MARK WARNER OF THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE

  • OF THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE SAID THAT KIND OF

  • COMMITTEE SAID THAT KIND OF RHETORIC CAN ONLY SERVE ONE

  • RHETORIC CAN ONLY SERVE ONE PURPOSE, INTIMIDATION OF THIS

  • PURPOSE, INTIMIDATION OF THIS WHISTLEBLOWER.

  • WHISTLEBLOWER. AND WHILE HE DIDN’T MENTION

  • AND WHILE HE DIDN’T MENTION TRUMP BY NAME REPUBLICAN SENATOR

  • TRUMP BY NAME REPUBLICAN SENATOR CHUCK GRASSLY OF INDIANA -- OR

  • CHUCK GRASSLY OF INDIANA -- OR IOWA RATHER -- SAYS THIS PERSON

  • IOWA RATHER -- SAYS THIS PERSON APPEARED TO HAVE FOLLOWED THE

  • APPEARED TO HAVE FOLLOWED THE WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION LAWS

  • WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION LAWS AND OUGHT TO BE HEARD OUT AND

  • AND OUGHT TO BE HEARD OUT AND PROTECTED.

  • PROTECTED. THAT’S FROM ONE OF THE TOP

  • THAT’S FROM ONE OF THE TOP REPUBLICAN SENATORS.

  • REPUBLICAN SENATORS. I’M JOINED NOW BY NED PRICE, A

  • I’M JOINED NOW BY NED PRICE, A FORMER NSC SENIOR DIRECTOR,

  • FORMER NSC SENIOR DIRECTOR, VALERY, A FORMER CIA OPERATIVE

  • VALERY, A FORMER CIA OPERATIVE OFFICER AND CURRENT DEMOCRATIC

  • OFFICER AND CURRENT DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR CONGRESS IN NEW

  • CANDIDATE FOR CONGRESS IN NEW MEXICO.

  • MEXICO. THANK YOU FOR COMING ON TONIGHT

  • THANK YOU FOR COMING ON TONIGHT AND I’M SO SORRY ABOUT YOUR

  • AND I’M SO SORRY ABOUT YOUR EX-HUSBAND, THE MAN WHO’S THE

  • EX-HUSBAND, THE MAN WHO’S THE FATHER OF YOUR CHILDREN.

  • FATHER OF YOUR CHILDREN. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHRIS.

  • >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHRIS. I KNOW JOE WATCHED YOU EVERY

  • I KNOW JOE WATCHED YOU EVERY NIGHT AND OF COURSE YOU WERE

  • NIGHT AND OF COURSE YOU WERE ENON THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE

  • ENON THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE STORY BACK IN 2003 WHEN MY CIA

  • STORY BACK IN 2003 WHEN MY CIA COVERT IDENTITY WAS BETRAYED.

  • COVERT IDENTITY WAS BETRAYED. I REMEMBER COMING INTO THE ROOM

  • I REMEMBER COMING INTO THE ROOM AND JOE HANGING UP THE PHONE AND

  • AND JOE HANGING UP THE PHONE AND SAYING CHRIS MATTHEWS JUST SAID

  • SAYING CHRIS MATTHEWS JUST SAID THE WHITE HOUSE CALLED YOU FAIR

  • THE WHITE HOUSE CALLED YOU FAIR GAME, SO OUR FAMILY IS

  • GAME, SO OUR FAMILY IS DEVASTATED.

  • DEVASTATED. AND WEVE LOST NOT JUST, YOU

  • AND WEVE LOST NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, FROM A PERSONAL SIDE FROM

  • KNOW, FROM A PERSONAL SIDE FROM A TRUE AMERICAN HERO.

  • A TRUE AMERICAN HERO. >> THANKS FOR COMING ON THIS

  • >> THANKS FOR COMING ON THIS TIME AND ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OF

  • TIME AND ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OF THE NEWS NOW, AND THE NEWS IS

  • THE NEWS NOW, AND THE NEWS IS ABOUT A WHISTLEBLOWER WHO THIS

  • ABOUT A WHISTLEBLOWER WHO THIS PRESIDENT SEEMS TO TRY TO DIM

  • PRESIDENT SEEMS TO TRY TO DIM DIMUINIZE AND WHAT’S IT LIKE TO

  • DIMUINIZE AND WHAT’S IT LIKE TO BE PART OF THAT TARGETING?

  • BE PART OF THAT TARGETING? >> I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT

  • >> I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT FEELS LIKE.

  • FEELS LIKE. I COMPARE IT TO FALLING DOWN

  • I COMPARE IT TO FALLING DOWN ALICE’S RABBIT HOLE WHERE WHITE

  • ALICE’S RABBIT HOLE WHERE WHITE IS BLACK AND BLACK IS WHITE.

  • IS BLACK AND BLACK IS WHITE. THE SAME THING HAPPENED TO US.

  • THE SAME THING HAPPENED TO US. THE BUSH WHITE HOUSE TRIED TO

  • THE BUSH WHITE HOUSE TRIED TO DEMONIZE US AND MAKE IT ABOUT

  • DEMONIZE US AND MAKE IT ABOUT VALERIE PLAIN AND JOE WILSON AND

  • VALERIE PLAIN AND JOE WILSON AND WHY THERE’S NO WMD IN IRAQ.

  • WHY THERE’S NO WMD IN IRAQ. THIS IS WHAT’S HAPPENING WITH

  • THIS IS WHAT’S HAPPENING WITH TRUMP’S WHISTLEBLOWER.

  • TRUMP’S WHISTLEBLOWER. IT’S ALREADY BEEN CONFIRMED HIS

  • IT’S ALREADY BEEN CONFIRMED HIS WRONGDOING, HIS THREAT TO

  • WRONGDOING, HIS THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY.

  • NATIONAL SECURITY. SO HE’S SEEKING TO UNDERMINE THE

  • SO HE’S SEEKING TO UNDERMINE THE WHISTLEBLOWER WHICH ENSHRINED IN

  • WHISTLEBLOWER WHICH ENSHRINED IN LAW SHOULD BE PROTECTED.

  • LAW SHOULD BE PROTECTED. BECAUSE WHAT DOES A

  • BECAUSE WHAT DOES A WHISTLEBLOWER DO?

  • WHISTLEBLOWER DO? THEYRE SEEKING TO EXPOSE

  • THEYRE SEEKING TO EXPOSE WRONGDOING, WROUGHT CORRUPTION,

  • WRONGDOING, WROUGHT CORRUPTION, SO TRUMP IS A MASTER AT THIS AND

  • SO TRUMP IS A MASTER AT THIS AND HELL CONTINUE DO SO.

  • HELL CONTINUE DO SO. I THINK HE’S CAUGHT THIS TIME.

  • I THINK HE’S CAUGHT THIS TIME. >> THIS STRATEGY OF THE

  • >> THIS STRATEGY OF THE PRESIDENT, HE DOES SEEM CAUGHT

  • PRESIDENT, HE DOES SEEM CAUGHT THIS TIME.

  • THIS TIME. HE’S NOT REALLY CHALLENGING WHAT

  • HE’S NOT REALLY CHALLENGING WHAT HE SAID, HE WEAKLY DEFENDS WHAT

  • HE SAID, HE WEAKLY DEFENDS WHAT HE SAYS FOR PARTISAN POLITICAL

  • HE SAYS FOR PARTISAN POLITICAL GAIN, USING U.S. FOREIGN

  • GAIN, USING U.S. FOREIGN MILITARY ASSISTANCE AS HIS

  • MILITARY ASSISTANCE AS HIS LEVER.

  • LEVER. BUT NOW HE’S GOING AFTER WHO’S

  • BUT NOW HE’S GOING AFTER WHO’S HE’S TREATING LIKE A RAT OR

  • HE’S TREATING LIKE A RAT OR FAKE.

  • FAKE. >> IT’S ATTACKING THE FBI FOR

  • >> IT’S ATTACKING THE FBI FOR DOING ITS JOB AND

  • DOING ITS JOB AND INVESTIGATION --

  • INVESTIGATION -- >> OH, SPYING ON HIM, THAT’S A

  • >> OH, SPYING ON HIM, THAT’S A NICE WORD.

  • NICE WORD. >> AND ATTACKING THE SPECIAL

  • >> AND ATTACKING THE SPECIAL COUNSEL DESPITE THE SPECIAL

  • COUNSEL DESPITE THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S LONG RECORD OF

  • COUNSEL’S LONG RECORD OF DEDICATED PUBLIC SERVICE AND NOW

  • DEDICATED PUBLIC SERVICE AND NOW ATTACKING A WHISTLEBLOWER.

  • ATTACKING A WHISTLEBLOWER. THE FACTS WILL COME OUT.

  • THE FACTS WILL COME OUT. THERE’S A LOT THERE, AND IT’S

  • THERE’S A LOT THERE, AND IT’S INTERESTING YOU SEE HOW

  • INTERESTING YOU SEE HOW REPUBLICANS NOW, SOME OF THEM

  • REPUBLICANS NOW, SOME OF THEM STARTING TO CAUTION AGAINST

  • STARTING TO CAUTION AGAINST JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS.

  • JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS. BEN SASSE, THE SENATOR FROM

  • BEN SASSE, THE SENATOR FROM NEBRASKA SAID LOTS NOT CIRCLE

  • NEBRASKA SAID LOTS NOT CIRCLE THE WAGONS AROUND THE PRESIDENT

  • THE WAGONS AROUND THE PRESIDENT QUITE YET, LET’S GET THE FACTS.

  • QUITE YET, LET’S GET THE FACTS. AND I THINK YOURE SEEING THE

  • AND I THINK YOURE SEEING THE RIGHT RESPONSE FROM MANY

  • RIGHT RESPONSE FROM MANY REPUBLICANS FINALLY ON THE HILL

  • REPUBLICANS FINALLY ON THE HILL WHO WANT THE FACTS BEFORE

  • WHO WANT THE FACTS BEFORE RUSHING TO JUDGMENT.

  • RUSHING TO JUDGMENT. >> BACK TO THE POINT HERE IN THE

  • >> BACK TO THE POINT HERE IN THE BEGINNING WHICH WAS IN THE DAYS

  • BEGINNING WHICH WAS IN THE DAYS OF NIXON AND WATERGATE IT WAS,

  • OF NIXON AND WATERGATE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, JOHN DEAN SAID I

  • YOU KNOW, JOHN DEAN SAID I REMEMBER BECAUSE HE HAD A