. >>> THIS IS JUST ONE OF THOSE

>>> THIS IS JUST ONE OF THOSE HEADLINES YOU DON'T GET TO READ

HEADLINES YOU DON'T GET TO READ OFTEN.

OFTEN. RUDY GIULIANI BUTT DIALS NBC

RUDY GIULIANI BUTT DIALS NBC REPORTER HEARD DISCUSSING NEED

REPORTER HEARD DISCUSSING NEED FOR CASH AND TRASHING BIDENS.

FOR CASH AND TRASHING BIDENS. NBC NEWS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER

NBC NEWS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER RICH SHAPIRO GOES TON TO

RICH SHAPIRO GOES TON TO DESCRIBE TWO VOICE MAILS FROM

DESCRIBE TWO VOICE MAILS FROM RUDY GIULIANI RECORDED WHEN

RUDY GIULIANI RECORDED WHEN GIULIANI ACCIDENTALLY BUTT

GIULIANI ACCIDENTALLY BUTT DIALED HIM N. ONE VOICEMAIL FROM

DIALED HIM N. ONE VOICEMAIL FROM LATE SEPTEMBER, GIULIANI IS

LATE SEPTEMBER, GIULIANI IS HEARD ATTACKING THE BIDENS

HEARD ATTACKING THE BIDENS BEFORE APPARENTLY TURNING TO

BEFORE APPARENTLY TURNING TO DONALD TRUMP'S CALL WITH THE

DONALD TRUMP'S CALL WITH THE UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT.

UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT. IN ANOTHER ROUGHLY TWO WEEKS

IN ANOTHER ROUGHLY TWO WEEKS LATER HE CAN BE HEARD DISCUSSING

LATER HE CAN BE HEARD DISCUSSING OVERSEAS BUSINESS DEALINGS AND

OVERSEAS BUSINESS DEALINGS AND HIS NEED FOR CASH.

HIS NEED FOR CASH. >> YOU KNOW, CHARLES WOULD HAVE

>> YOU KNOW, CHARLES WOULD HAVE A HARD TIME WITH A FRAUD CASE

A HARD TIME WITH A FRAUD CASE BECAUSE HE DIDN'T DO ANY DUE

BECAUSE HE DIDN'T DO ANY DUE DILIGENCE.

DILIGENCE. TOMORROW I GOT TO GET YOU TO GET

TOMORROW I GOT TO GET YOU TO GET ON BAHRAIN.

ON BAHRAIN. IS ROBERT AROUND?

IS ROBERT AROUND? >> ROB?

>> ROB? HE'S IN TURKEY.

HE'S IN TURKEY. >> PROBLEM IS WE NEED SOME

>> PROBLEM IS WE NEED SOME MONEY.

MONEY. WE NEED A FEW HUNDRED THOUSANDS.

WE NEED A FEW HUNDRED THOUSANDS. >> IS VOICE MAILS JOIN NEW

>> IS VOICE MAILS JOIN NEW SCRUTINY AT A TIME HE'S UNDER

SCRUTINY AT A TIME HE'S UNDER FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION

FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION AND ACCUSED OF RUNNING A SHADOW

AND ACCUSED OF RUNNING A SHADOW FOREIGN POLICY IN UKRAINE TO DIG

FOREIGN POLICY IN UKRAINE TO DIG UP DIRT ON TRUMP'S POLITICAL

UP DIRT ON TRUMP'S POLITICAL RIVAL.

RIVAL. GIULIANI IS NOW REPORTEDLY ON

GIULIANI IS NOW REPORTEDLY ON THE HUNT FOR A DEFENSE ATTORNEY

THE HUNT FOR A DEFENSE ATTORNEY AS FEDERAL PROSECUTORS ISSUE

AS FEDERAL PROSECUTORS ISSUE MULTIPLE SUBPOENAS IN THE CASE

MULTIPLE SUBPOENAS IN THE CASE AGAINST GIULIANI'S INDICTED

AGAINST GIULIANI'S INDICTED ASSOCIATES.

ASSOCIATES. POLITICO REPORTS THAT THE

POLITICO REPORTS THAT THE CRIMINAL DIVISION OF ATTORNEY

CRIMINAL DIVISION OF ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR'S JUSTICE

GENERAL BARR'S JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS BRINGING MORE

DEPARTMENT IS BRINGING MORE RESOURCES TO THE SDNY'S

RESOURCES TO THE SDNY'S INVESTIGATION INTO GIULIANI

INVESTIGATION INTO GIULIANI INDICATING THAT THE PROBE INTO

INDICATING THAT THE PROBE INTO THE PRESIDENT'S PERSONAL

THE PRESIDENT'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY IS BOTH BROADER AND

ATTORNEY IS BOTH BROADER AND MOVING AT A FASTER PACE THAN

MOVING AT A FASTER PACE THAN PREVIOUSLY UNDERSTOOD.

PREVIOUSLY UNDERSTOOD. JOINING US NOW IS FRANK

JOINING US NOW IS FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT

FIGLIUZZI, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE

DIRECTOR FOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE AND MSNBC NATIONAL SECURITY

AND MSNBC NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST AND DANNY IS HE HAVE A

ANALYST AND DANNY IS HE HAVE A LOSS.

LOSS. BUT JUST FIRST, RUDY GIULIANI

BUT JUST FIRST, RUDY GIULIANI AND THE CALL, WHAT STOOD OUT TO

AND THE CALL, WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU?

YOU? >> FIRST, MANY PEOPLE WOULD SAY

>> FIRST, MANY PEOPLE WOULD SAY RUDY'S BEEN TALKING OUT OF THAT

RUDY'S BEEN TALKING OUT OF THAT PART OF HIS ANATOMY FOR A WHILE,

PART OF HIS ANATOMY FOR A WHILE, BUT THE FIRST THING THAT STRUCK

BUT THE FIRST THING THAT STRUCK ME WAS THE NATIONAL SECURITY

ME WAS THE NATIONAL SECURITY IMPLICATIONS FOR THE PRESIDENT'S

IMPLICATIONS FOR THE PRESIDENT'S ATTORNEY AND A GLOBAL EMISSARY

ATTORNEY AND A GLOBAL EMISSARY NOT UNDERSTANDING PHONE

NOT UNDERSTANDING PHONE SECURITY.

SECURITY. HOW MANY PEOPLE RIGHT HAND THE

HOW MANY PEOPLE RIGHT HAND THE WORLD AND IN WHAT COUNTRIES HAVE

WORLD AND IN WHAT COUNTRIES HAVE RECEIVED UNSOLICITED VOICE MAILS

RECEIVED UNSOLICITED VOICE MAILS FROM THE PRESIDENT'S ATTORNEY?

FROM THE PRESIDENT'S ATTORNEY? WHAT COUNTRY LEADER OR COUNTRY

WHAT COUNTRY LEADER OR COUNTRY GENERAL COUNSEL OR ADMINISTRATOR

GENERAL COUNSEL OR ADMINISTRATOR HAS RECEIVED SUCH THINGS?

HAS RECEIVED SUCH THINGS? THERE'S BEEN CONSISTENT

THERE'S BEEN CONSISTENT REPORTING ON RUDY'S THIRD

REPORTING ON RUDY'S THIRD DIVORCE, A VERY ACRIMONIOUS

DIVORCE, A VERY ACRIMONIOUS DIVORCE PROCEEDING WHERE HIS

DIVORCE PROCEEDING WHERE HIS WIFE IS CLAIMING IN COURT

WIFE IS CLAIMING IN COURT FILINGS THAT HIS PRO BONO WORK

FILINGS THAT HIS PRO BONO WORK FOR THE PRESIDENT IS PART OF A

FOR THE PRESIDENT IS PART OF A SCHEME TO ALLOW HIM TO CLAIM

SCHEME TO ALLOW HIM TO CLAIM HE'S BROKE AND CAN'T AFFORD AL

HE'S BROKE AND CAN'T AFFORD AL MOANMY.

MOANMY. YET ON THIS RECORDING WE HEAR

YET ON THIS RECORDING WE HEAR HIM SAY THE PROBLEM IS, WE NEED

HIM SAY THE PROBLEM IS, WE NEED MORE MONEY, OR WE NEED SOME

MORE MONEY, OR WE NEED SOME MONEY.

MONEY. IS IT POSSIBLE HE'S GOT SOME

IS IT POSSIBLE HE'S GOT SOME LEGAL ISSUE WITH REGARD TO

LEGAL ISSUE WITH REGARD TO HIDING HIS INCOME BECAUSE OF A

HIDING HIS INCOME BECAUSE OF A DIVORCE PROCEEDING?

DIVORCE PROCEEDING? >> THAT'S INTERESTING.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING. THERE HAS BEEN A QUESTION OF

THERE HAS BEEN A QUESTION OF WHETHER RUDY GIULIANI IS REALLY

WHETHER RUDY GIULIANI IS REALLY WORKING FOR FREE FOR THE

WORKING FOR FREE FOR THE PRESIDENT OR IF SOMEBODY ELSE IS

PRESIDENT OR IF SOMEBODY ELSE IS PAYING HIM.

PAYING HIM. THIS CALL TALKED ABOUT MONEY.

THIS CALL TALKED ABOUT MONEY. I'M NOT SURE IT REVEALED MUCH

I'M NOT SURE IT REVEALED MUCH MORE THAN HIM TALKING ABOUT

MORE THAN HIM TALKING ABOUT MONEY AND SAYING WE NEED MONEY.

MONEY AND SAYING WE NEED MONEY. THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE WHERE HE

THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE WHERE HE TALKS ABOUT JOE BIDEN AND WHY

TALKS ABOUT JOE BIDEN AND WHY GIULIANI BELIEVES HE'S BEING

GIULIANI BELIEVES HE'S BEING TARGETED.

TARGETED. LET'S PLAY THAT SOUND BITE.

LET'S PLAY THAT SOUND BITE. >> I EXPECTED IT WOULD HAPPEN.

>> I EXPECTED IT WOULD HAPPEN. THE MINUTE YOU TOUCH ON ONE OF

THE MINUTE YOU TOUCH ON ONE OF THE PROTECTED PEOPLE, THEY GO

THE PROTECTED PEOPLE, THEY GO CRAZY.

CRAZY. THEY COME AFTER YOU.

THEY COME AFTER YOU. IT'S VERY POWERFUL.

IT'S VERY POWERFUL. >> THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON,

>> THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON, YEAH?

YEAH? >> THERE'S PLENTY MORE TO COME

>> THERE'S PLENTY MORE TO COME NOW.

NOW. >> THEY DON'T WANT TO

>> THEY DON'T WANT TO INVESTIGATE BECAUSE HE'S

INVESTIGATE BECAUSE HE'S PROTECTED.

PROTECTED. SO WE GOT TO FORCE THEM TO DO

SO WE GOT TO FORCE THEM TO DO IT.

IT. AND THE UKRAINE, THEY'RE

AND THE UKRAINE, THEY'RE INVESTIGATING IT AND BLOCKED IT

INVESTIGATING IT AND BLOCKED IT TWICE.

TWICE. SO WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS.

SO WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS. [ INAUDIBLE ]

[ INAUDIBLE ] YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T KEEP DOING

YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T KEEP DOING THIS.

THIS. YOU HAVE TO INVESTIGATE THIS.

YOU HAVE TO INVESTIGATE THIS. AND THEY SAY IT WILL AFFECT THE

AND THEY SAY IT WILL AFFECT THE 2020 ELECTION.

2020 ELECTION. >> THEY SAY IT WILL AFFECT THE

>> THEY SAY IT WILL AFFECT THE 2020 ELECTION.

2020 ELECTION. WE GOT TO GET THEM TO

WE GOT TO GET THEM TO INVESTIGATE IT.

INVESTIGATE IT. WHAT DO YOU THINK, DANNY?

WHAT DO YOU THINK, DANNY? >> IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE HE'S

>> IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE HE'S JUSTIFYING ALL OF HIS ARGUMENTS

JUSTIFYING ALL OF HIS ARGUMENTS OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS TO

OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS TO HIMSELF.

HIMSELF. LIKE HE'S LOOKING IN THE MIRROR

LIKE HE'S LOOKING IN THE MIRROR AND SAYING THIS IS WHY WE DID

AND SAYING THIS IS WHY WE DID THIS, RIGHT?

THIS, RIGHT? SOUNDS TO ME AS IF HE'S SAYING,

SOUNDS TO ME AS IF HE'S SAYING, I DON'T THINK THIS IS A STRETCH,

I DON'T THINK THIS IS A STRETCH, THAT THE PROTECTED PEOPLE WERE

THAT THE PROTECTED PEOPLE WERE THE BIDENS AND ALL WE WERE DOING

THE BIDENS AND ALL WE WERE DOING WAS ASKING THEM TO INVESTIGATE

WAS ASKING THEM TO INVESTIGATE PEOPLE WHO WERE BEING PROTECTED

PEOPLE WHO WERE BEING PROTECTED IMPROPERLY AND WE WERE LOOKING

IMPROPERLY AND WE WERE LOOKING INTO CORRUPTION ANYWAY.

INTO CORRUPTION ANYWAY. JUST SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF

JUST SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF SELF-JUSTIFICATION.

SELF-JUSTIFICATION. WHAT STANDS OUT TO ME IS REALLY

WHAT STANDS OUT TO ME IS REALLY BUILDING ON WHAT FRANK SAID, IF

BUILDING ON WHAT FRANK SAID, IF HE'S DOING THIS ACCIDENTALLY TO

HE'S DOING THIS ACCIDENTALLY TO REPORTERS, WHO ELSE IS HE DOING

REPORTERS, WHO ELSE IS HE DOING THIS TO, AND TO WHAT DEGREE

THIS TO, AND TO WHAT DEGREE COULD HE POSSIBLY BE ACTING AS

COULD HE POSSIBLY BE ACTING AS AN ATTORNEY IN ONE SENSE, AS A

AN ATTORNEY IN ONE SENSE, AS A DIPLOMAT IN HIS OWN MIND IN

DIPLOMAT IN HIS OWN MIND IN ANOTHER SENSE OR AS A PRIVATE

ANOTHER SENSE OR AS A PRIVATE BUSINESS PERSON?

BUSINESS PERSON? IF THERE'S AN ADDED ELEMENT OF

IF THERE'S AN ADDED ELEMENT OF WHETHER HIS INCOME, HE'S

WHETHER HIS INCOME, HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE RECEIVING OR NOT

SUPPOSED TO BE RECEIVING OR NOT RECEIVING IT, WHAT DOES IT MEAN

RECEIVING IT, WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN HE SAYS WE NEED THIS MONEY?

WHEN HE SAYS WE NEED THIS MONEY? THERE'S SO MANY X FACTORS IN

THERE'S SO MANY X FACTORS IN HERE, BUT THAT LAST CLIP REALLY

HERE, BUT THAT LAST CLIP REALLY TENDED TO SHOW ME THAT THERE'S A

TENDED TO SHOW ME THAT THERE'S A LOT OF JUSTIFICATION GOING ON,

LOT OF JUSTIFICATION GOING ON, THAT MAYBE HE DOESN'T EVEN

THAT MAYBE HE DOESN'T EVEN BELIEVE HIMSELF.

BELIEVE HIMSELF. >> I WANT TO KNOW, DO YOU THINK

>> I WANT TO KNOW, DO YOU THINK SDNY INVESTIGATORS ARE GOING TO

SDNY INVESTIGATORS ARE GOING TO WANT THAT PHONE CALL, THOSE TWO

WANT THAT PHONE CALL, THOSE TWO PHONE CALLS?

PHONE CALLS? >> I DO BECAUSE IT COULD BE

>> I DO BECAUSE IT COULD BE VIEWED AS A STATEMENT AGAINST

VIEWED AS A STATEMENT AGAINST SELF-INTEREST.

SELF-INTEREST. IT COULD BE VIEWED AS A KIND OF

IT COULD BE VIEWED AS A KIND OF ADMISSION THAT I KNEW THIS WOULD

ADMISSION THAT I KNEW THIS WOULD AFFECT THE 2020 ELECTION AND

AFFECT THE 2020 ELECTION AND WE'RE ASKING FOR IT ANYWAY.

WE'RE ASKING FOR IT ANYWAY. >> WHAT ABOUT WILLIAM BARR

>> WHAT ABOUT WILLIAM BARR GETTING THE DOJ TO INVESTIGATE

GETTING THE DOJ TO INVESTIGATE ITSELF?

ITSELF? >> OH, MY.

>> OH, MY. SO IT'S VERY DISTURBING.

SO IT'S VERY DISTURBING. AT BEST IT REFLECTS THE FACT

AT BEST IT REFLECTS THE FACT THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY'RE

THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY'RE FINDING SOMETHING CRIMINAL.

FINDING SOMETHING CRIMINAL. BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, KATY,

BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, KATY, WHEN YOU TELL CIA OFFICERS AND

WHEN YOU TELL CIA OFFICERS AND ANALYSTS THAT THEY'RE FACING

ANALYSTS THAT THEY'RE FACING CRIMINAL EXPOSURE BECAUSE OF THE

CRIMINAL EXPOSURE BECAUSE OF THE WORK THEY DID IN FURTHERANCE OF

WORK THEY DID IN FURTHERANCE OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY, GUESS

THE NATIONAL SECURITY, GUESS WHAT HAPPENS.

WHAT HAPPENS. THEY GET LAWYERS AND REFUSE TO

THEY GET LAWYERS AND REFUSE TO COOPERATE.

COOPERATE. SO WE'RE ABOUT TO FACE A

SO WE'RE ABOUT TO FACE A SPECTACLE.

SPECTACLE. THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, LOOK AT

THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, LOOK AT THESE PEOPLE, THEY LAURA UP.

THESE PEOPLE, THEY LAURA UP. IS THIS A DELIBERATE STRATEGY TO

IS THIS A DELIBERATE STRATEGY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

MAKE THAT HAPPEN. >> FORGIVE ME MORE ASKING FRANK

>> FORGIVE ME MORE ASKING FRANK ONE MORE QUESTION.

ONE MORE QUESTION. WHOOING THE DOJ WOULD SEND SDNY

WHOOING THE DOJ WOULD SEND SDNY MORE MONEY?

MORE MONEY? >> ON THE RUDY GIULIANI

>> ON THE RUDY GIULIANI INVESTIGATION?

INVESTIGATION? IT'S GETTING COMPLICATED TO THE

IT'S GETTING COMPLICATED TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE ARE THINKING

POINT WHERE PEOPLE ARE THINKING THEY'RE GOING TO CLAIM EXECUTIVE

THEY'RE GOING TO CLAIM EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE BY EXTENSION.

PRIVILEGE BY EXTENSION. WE HEARD RUDY'S ASSOCIATES THROW