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  • ARTHEL: SO KREMLIN IS SAYING

  • RUSSIA IS HOPING PRESIDENT

  • TRUMP'S CONVERSATION WITH

  • VLADIMIR PUTIN WILL NOT BE MADE

  • PUBLIC AFTER THE WHITE HOUSE

  • DECLASSIFIED THE TRANSCRIPT

  • AFTER THE CALL OR PARTIALLY DID

  • SO OF THE CALL WITH UKRAINIAN

  • PRESIDENT FOLLOWING THE

  • WHISTLEBLOWER COMPLAINT ALLEGING

  • MR. TRUMP'S ABUSE OF POWER, THE

  • WALL STREET JOURNAL, HE HAS

  • HEADLINE EMBARRASSING LEAKS LED

  • TO CLAMP DOWN ON PRESIDENT

  • TRUMP'S RECORDS, DAN HOFFMAN,

  • FORMER CIA STATION CHIEF WHO

  • SERVED IN MOSCOW, IRAN AND

  • PAKISTAN AND NOW FOX NEWS

  • CONTRIBUTOR, ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE

  • YOU, DAN.

  • >> GREAT TO BE HERE.

  • ARTHEL: WHY WOULD THE KREMLIN

  • NOT WANT CALLS BETWEEN PRESIDENT

  • TRUMP AND PRESIDENT PUTIN MADE

  • PUBLIC?

  • >> SO FIRST, IF THE KREMLIN

  • WANTED THEM TO BE MADE PUBLIC

  • I'M SURE THAT THEY WOULD FIND A

  • WAY TO DO SO WHETHER BY LEAKING

  • THEM OR STATING THE RECORDS OF

  • THE TRANSCRIPT PUBLICLY, BUT

  • THEY REALLY WANT TO DO INJECT

  • CONSPIRACY INTO OUR PUBLIC

  • DISCOURSE, THEY KNOW THAT IF

  • THEY EXPRESS AN OPINION, IF THE

  • KREMLIN SAY THAT IS THE CRYPTS

  • SHOULDN'T BE RELEASED, THAT'S

  • AMMUNITION FOR THE PRESIDENT'S

  • OPPONENTS WHO WILL ARGUE IN

  • FACT, THAT THEY SHOULD BE

  • RELEASED AND THE REPUBLICANS AND

  • THE PRESIDENT WILL PUSH BACK AND

  • RUSSIA WILL BECOME THE

  • HYPERPARTISAN POLITICAL DEBATE

  • THAT SERVES VLADIMIR PUTIN'S

  • INTEREST.

  • ARTHEL: PRESIDENT PUTIN DOESN'T

  • CARE ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP,

  • PUTIN'S GOAL IS WORLD DOMINANCE,

  • RIGHT?

  • >> WELL, KGB OPERATIVE VLADIMIR

  • PUTIN, HIS PRIMARY ENEMY IS THE

  • UNITED STATES, AND WHAT SCARES

  • HIM THE MOST IS DEMOCRACY AND HE

  • WANTS TO TAKE EVERY OPPORTUNITY

  • TO DISPARAGE OUR DEMOCRATIC

  • PROCESS, THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS

  • IS ALL ABOUT.

  • >> DOES THAT BRING UP ANOTHER

  • CONCERN OF THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL

  • THAT THEY HAVE SEEN ON PHONE

  • CALL WITH CONVERSATION WITH

  • PRESIDENT ZELENSKI AND PRESIDENT

  • TRUMP, IS THAT THE VERY THING

  • THAT CRITICS ARE CONCERNED

  • PERHAPS SOMEBODY LIKE PRESIDENT

  • PUTIN CAN BLACKMAIL PRESIDENT

  • TRUMP KNOWING THAT PERHAPS AS

  • ACCORDING TO SOME, YOU KNOW,

  • WAIT TILL WE GET RESULTS ON

  • THIS, ACCORDING TO SOME THAT THE

  • PRESIDENT ABUSED POWER?

  • >> YEAH, A NUMBER OF REASONS WHY

  • PHONE CALLS BETWEEN THE

  • PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

  • AND FOREIGN PRESIDENTS ARE

  • TYPICALLY SHARED WIDELY AND ONE

  • OF THEM IS THAT THEY TYPICALLY

  • DON'T DISCUSS CLASSIFIED

  • INFORMATION ON THE PHONE CALL,

  • ANOTHER IS THAT THE PRESIDENT

  • NEEDS HIS OWN TEAM INTELLIGENCE

  • COMMUNITY, DIPLOMATS, THE

  • MILITARY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE

  • PHONE CALL AND THEN ACT ON WHAT

  • THE PRESIDENT IS SEEKING TO

  • DELIVER WITH THAT FOREIGN LEADER

  • AND THE THIRD REASON IS THAT

  • OTHERS AS WELL MAY BE LISTENING

  • ON THE PHONE CALL, COLLECTING

  • INTELLIGENCE ON WHAT TRANSPIRED,

  • I'M QUITE SURE FOR VLADIMIR

  • PUTIN IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO

  • TRACK EXACTLY HOW THE PRESIDENT

  • OF THE UNITED STATES IS

  • INTERACTING WITH PRESIDENT

  • ZELENSKI OF THE UKRAINE, THERE

  • WOULD BE SOME CONCERN THAT

  • RUSSIA WOULD HAVE KNOWN THE

  • DETAILS OF THAT CONVERSATION.

  • ARTHEL: DOES THE PRESIDENT HAVE

  • THE DISCRETION TO PLACE

  • TRANSFERS OF CALLS TO FOREIGN

  • LEADERS ON THE CODE WORD SUPER

  • SECRET SERVER?

  • >> I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING

  • CONGRESS WILL BE DIGGING INTO IN

  • THE NEXT COMING DAYS BECAUSE IT

  • WAS THE LAWYERS THAT WAS

  • SOMETHING THE PRESIDENT COULD

  • DO, I JUST KNOW FROM MY OWN

  • EXPERIENCE AT CIA, THERE WAS A

  • NEED TO KNOW AND THE DETAILS OF

  • THE PRESIDENT'S PHONE CALLS WITH

  • FOREIGN LEADERS WERE KEPT TO

  • MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE

  • REQUIRED BUT THERE WAS A GOOD

  • BIT OF SHARING JUST SO THAT WE

  • COULD ACT ON THE PRESIDENT'S

  • TASKING APPROPRIATELY.

  • ARTHEL: IS WITH SUBPOENA POWER

  • ON THEIR SIDE, CAN THE WHITE

  • HOUSE OR ADMINISTRATION REFUSE

  • AT THIS POINT TO SUBMIT THE

  • COMPLETE UNREDACTED VERSIONS OF

  • THAT CALL ON JULY 25TH?

  • >> I THINK IT'S A CHALLENGE AND

  • SOMEONE WHO SERVED MANY YEARS AT

  • THE CIA WHERE ONE OF OUR MANTRA

  • AND WE ARE AS TRANSPARENT AS

  • POSSIBLE AND WHEN YOU HAVE A

  • WHISTLEBLOWER COMPLAINT OUT

  • THERE WHICH WILL LEAD FURTHER

  • INVESTIGATION, IT'S AWFULLY HARD

  • TO KEEP DETAILS ON THAT SECRET.

  • ARTHEL: ANYTHING IN THE CALL

  • CONCERNS YOU?

  • >> I THINK YOUNG REIGN -- WHAT

  • CONSIDERATION ME THE MOST

  • UKRAINE IS THE LAST PLACE I

  • WOULD BE GOING TO FOR

  • INFORMATION ABOUT CORRUPTION,

  • JUST GIVEN THAT THE STATE OF

  • UKRAINE IS ONE OF THE MOST

  • CORRUPT PLACES ON THE PLANET AND

  • I WOULD BE VERY WEARY OF

  • TRUSTING THE VERACITY OF ANY

  • INFORMATION I MIGHT RECEIVE FROM

  • ANYONE.

  • ARTHEL: I'M SORRY, DAN, DO YOU

  • BELIEVE THAT THE NEW PRESIDENT,

  • PRESIDENT ZELENSKI, THAT'S WHAT

  • HE RAN AND WON ON THAT HE WANTS

  • TO GET RID OF CORRUPTION IN

  • THEIR SYSTEM.

  • >> SO HE -- PRESIDENT ZELENSKI

  • ON A POPULIST PLATFORM AND

  • MANDATE, THE PROBLEM IS THAT

  • HE'S GOT TO MANAGE A COUNTRY

  • WHICH IS OVERRUN WITH ENDEMIC

  • CORRUPTION AND THERE'S BEEN A

  • LOT OF CONCERN OF OLIGARCH IN

  • UKRAINE WHO OPERATES THE

  • TELEVISION STATION WHERE TV SIT

  • COME WAS RUNNING AND BY ALL

  • ACCOUNTS IS SEEKING TO USE THE

  • GOVERNMENT OF UKRAINE NOT ONLY

  • TO EXACT REVENGE ON ENEMIES BUT

  • ALSO ENRICH HIS OWN POCKETS AND

  • SO THE JURY IS OUT ON THE EXTENT

  • TO WHICH PRESIDENT ZELENSKI WILL

  • FULFILL CAMPAIGN PROMISE, IT'S

  • CERTAINLY IN THE INTEREST OF ALL

  • OF US THAT UKRAINE IS CORRUPTION

  • FREE IF THEY ARE CORRUPT THEY

  • ARE EASILY EXPLOITED BY RUSSIA

  • AND NOT LIKELY TO JOIN THE

  • EUROPEAN UNION OR NATO WHICH ARE

  • THEIR GOALS.

  • ARTHEL: ONLY CONCERNING WRAPPING

  • UP SO FAR WHAT YOU'VE SEEN ON

  • WHAT WAS SAID IN THE PHONE CALL,