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(gentle music)
- As a human, we're designed to move.
The athlete is always thinking how can I
improve my performance?
You get looking better, but
you never train to look better.

When I'm stretching, I'm in my element,
and I'll call it work.
I'm doing this 'cause I love it.
I just won't frickin' stop.
- What am I, a mentor?
What am I?
- Yeah, a mentor, 100%.

- Ultimately, the reason
a mentor helps you

is because they see that you're
not gonna waste their time.

- You went do you want to do a TED Talk?
And I went yes.
- Hi.
- Thank your lover.

- I love writing.
I'll pick up my phone
and I just start writing.

- This whole book was
written on your phone?

- Yeah.
Like most people do jobs
that you don't like.

That's insanity.
Get in your head, like,
what it is you love.

Create your business around that.
- I know that it must sound weird,
but, you know, I'm very proud of you.
- Seriously, from the bottom of my heart,
thank you, 'cause if I
hadn't bumped into you,

I wouldn't be sitting on this chair.
And that's just mad.
It's just mad. (laughs)
(light music)
- [Brian] They say that
the human race is doomed.

That we have lost touch
with our true nature.

That the media has corrupted us
and that the planet has no future.
I disagree.
I believe that humanity is full of hope
and that our salvation
lies within each one of us.

My name is Brian Rose,
and my job is to listen,

the oldest method of
learning known to man.

Each week, I seek out individuals that are
changing the world, people who are living
and thinking in a different way.
Their stories will challenge your beliefs,
make you question your
choices, and, perhaps,

inspire you to change.
I never planned on doing any of this,
but, now, I can't stop.
Join me on this mission, and make humanity
something we can all be proud of.
- It's time for you to man
up, to once and for all

tell your mind who the fuck is boss.
I need a fuckin' answer.
What's it gonna be?
I don't know what it is
about this fuckin' sport,

but it attracts people that really need
to do deep work on themselves.
- I failed in this city.
All these bad memories,
I never really felt

like I gave a fuck about me or my life.
I almost killed myself like.
(breath labouring)
(violin music)

- Think about something
that is gonna drive

you when it really hurts.
Some kind of demon you want to fight.
- This is not pussy man, this is iron man.
Under pressure reveals true character.
What are you gonna do?
You gonna be in Chattanooga
May 20th or what?

(upbeat music)
- You've got to do a TED Talk.
Those were my exact words to this week's
guest, Mr. Roger Frampton,
who's now the author

of The Flexible Body.
I pushed him over the course of 16 months
to get up on that TED stage the same way
I did, and it literally
changed the course of his life.

Two million views later,
that TED Talk was one

of the most watched ones last year.
And now he's built a book
and a business around it.

I'm a huge fan of Roger.
He's a good friend of mine.
He wrote this book on his iPhone,
and he's going to write more.
He's super passionate about movement,
and, now, he's gonna build
a business around it.

I really think you'll enjoy this episode.
We talk a lot about how to
find a mentor and what it's

like to be a mentee and
that entire relationship.

This one's very close to home,
'cause I've watched
him grow because of it,

get the book deal because of the TED Talk.
So sit back and enjoy this show.
And, folks, this is exactly what we teach
inside the London Real Academy.
I show you how to publicly
speak and do your own TED Talk.

I teach you how to start your own
personal business and take your passion
and turn it into something
like London Real.

I also teach you how to broadcast yourself
and, of course, how to
accelerate your life.

To learn more about our
eight-week accountability courses,

here's a little bit more about it.
(upbeat music)
London Real doesn't stop
when the conversation ends.

You see, that's when we get started,
because everything begins with a thought
and then comes the action.
The London Real Academy is our global
transformation platform.
Here, we bring together
thousands of students

from over 75 countries.
Whether you want to build
a profitable business

from your passion or
learn to speak to inspire

or broadcast yourself
with your very own podcast

or accelerate your life to
become a high-performance person,

we have the online accountability course
and personal mentoring programme that will
make your dream a reality.
Join us, and we'll take your life
to the next level together.
Our next accelerator
course is starting soon.

(electronic music)
This is London Real.
I am Brian Rose.
My guest today is Roger Frampton,
the international model, TED speaker,
author and corrective exercise coach.
After 15 seasons as a
male model on the catwalks

of Milan, Paris, New York and London,
you recognised the
importance of human movements

and wrote the book The Flexible Body:
Move Better Anywhere,
Anytime in 10 Minutes a Day.

Your system features a
combination of body weight

exercises, gymnastics and yoga
but with the utilisation
of conscious thought.

Your TED Talk, Why
Sitting Down Destroys You,

which I attended, and pushed you to do,
has been viewed over two million times.
Roger, welcome to London Real.
- Thanks for having me.
- Dude, it's awesome having you here.
It's been amazing to watch your journey
for the past three years
or four years since we met?

- Yeah.
- And I mean, seriously,

it's like the rise and rise of Roger.
I've seen you lately on BBC,
in Men's Health magazine,

on all sorts of television
shows, your book's out,

you're probably working on your next book,
your app, your TED Talk continues to be
two million-plus views.
You know, when I met you,
none of that was going on.

What's the last couple years been like?
- (laughs) Yeah, see,
this is all your fault.

You caused this.
- When did I meet you?
- So we met in Primrose Hill Park.
So I was training.
Actually, I came across you before that,
'cause I watched London Real.
I think the first time I saw it I came
across it I saw a bit of Kelly Starrett.
- Yeah, Kelly Starrett, Mobility Wod,
one of the first CrossFit guys in America.
That was the old-school days.
- Exactly.
I saw that and then I
think I saw another one,

the Dolce, the Dolce Diet?
- Mike Dolce, yeah,

Dolce Diet, okay.
- I saw that, so I got
familiar with your face.

I was like this is interesting.
It was a bit different to my stuff.
I like YouTube a lot.
And then training in
Primrose, and I'm like,

I think I know this guy.
- People who don't know, Primrose Hill,
it's just above Regent's Park.
And, if you're not from
London, it's kinda,

not the Central Park
of London, it's a major

park in London, and they
have pullup bars there,

which just don't exist
in this city, really.

It's not like LA or on the
beach, where they're everywhere

or in Brazil in Rio de Janeiro.
There's just a few places with them,
which means anybody who likes to get their
muscle ups on or train
with bars, they kinda

gravitate to that park, don't they?
- 100%, yeah.
It is like a little hidden gem.
And, if you like callisthenics,
everyone knows it

or like gymnastics.
You can walk in there, and
there'll be like a yogi

in the corner, an acrobat
over in that corner

and then some other people running laps.
You just get every different sport.
- Yeah, it's a nice vibe,
of course, the secret's out now.
(Roger laughs)
But also, sometimes, you
go in there in the summer

and it's like a prison yard.
Sometimes the muscle up guys show up,
and they're just like 30
dudes, and they're just ripped.

- Yeah, with the music.
- And they've got the
music, and they're pumping

out like 15, 20 muscle
ups, just like cali muscle.

- And then you got someone walk in there
who's just trying their first pullup.
They're like, I'm so intimidated.
- It's intimidating, yeah.
- Yeah, yeah.

- To just walk out.
- If you don't know it, but
once you get used to it,

you realise that
everyone's really friendly.

It's just like everyone
says hello, how you doin'?

How you gettin' on, people sharing tips.
There were times we were there
when people wouldn't leave us alone.
- Yeah, I know, they would just come over
and start talkin' to
us and wouldn't leave.

So we met each other how
many years ago, three?

More?
- No, it's gotta be longer.

- 3 1/2.
- Was it 3 1/2?

Yeah, something like that.
Something like that.
- And you saw me, and we just--
- I saw you, and I was
ah, I think that's him.

I wasn't 100%.
I was training, and then
I left to go somewhere.

- Was I trying to get a muscle up?
- No, you were doing a movement on a bar.
It's called a low bar, and
you were just practising

the flick over.
- I was trying to learn

the muscle up.
- Yeah, you were doing

this little skill.
It was on the low bar, and you were
like flicking yourself over.
- Yeah, and for people who don't know,
the muscle up is the bane of
every young man's existence.

- Yeah, you're basically
instead of doing a pull up,

you pull the bar down and
then bloop from there.

- Yeah, it's almost impossible
to get for most people.

Some people can get it easily,
but it involves a lot of
coordination, some strength,

a lot of practise.
- And, if you get it, it looks awesome.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Which is why everyone has to do it.
- Exactly, so you saw
me training for that.

- Yeah, I saw you
training, and I was like,

I think that's the guy, I think that's
that guy from YouTube.
I left, and I was like
I've got other stuff to do.

And then I left, and I was like, no,
I've got to speak to this guy.
You probably don't know this.
But I was I've got to speak to this dude.
I've got to speak to him.
So I went back in the park,
and I was like creeping.
You know when you recognise that you know
someone, and I was like maybe I look a bit
creepy now just go and say hello.
So I came up and I was,
"Hey, bud, I think I

"saw you on your show."
And you were like,
"Hey, how are you doing?

"What do you do?"
And I was kind of coaching,
gymnasticky kind of vibe.

What are you working on?
And you said a muscle up.
And, um, yeah.
- And you gave me some tips right there.
- Yeah, 'cause I saw you were working on,
oh, you trying to do a muscle up?
I've been trying to do that skill,
I know some stuff about it and la la la.
And, yeah, the rest is history.
- It wasn't that creepy,
well, for two reasons.

First of all, you were like adding value,
and people do come up to me and say hi.
And then you weren't that creepy either.
And you're extremely
good looking, so I was

like maybe he's okay.
- How you doin'?
How you doin'? (laughs)
- And then so we met like every week after
that and just kept
training together, right?

- Yeah, yeah, so I think
we had a little deal

going on, not like a
written contract, but you

were like if you ever need
help like with business

or anything that you're doing,
if you want to train me.

And then we had a little deal going.
And then you went, "You
should do a TED Talk."

And I went, "Sure."
- And that was maybe six
months after my TED Talk

came out or something?
- Yeah, I think you were
just about to do it.

- Oh really?
- Yeah, you hadn't

done it yet.
- Oh wow, okay.
- And then it came out.

'Cause you were like
I'm preparing for one,

I'm nearly, I'm about to go on.
- Okay,
- I'm about to do the talk.

- so that's gotta be four years ago.
- Yeah, around then.
- So we had this weird
unwritten arrangement,

so, I don't know, I mean,
what am I, a mentor?

What am I?
- Yeah, a mentor, 100%.

- And we should talk about
this concept of a mentor,

because I love to talk
about it with people,

'cause people ask me all the
time how do I find a mentor.

The best way, I think, to find a mentor
is to never use the word mentor.
Because with you and me, it was just like,
you were like, "Look,
I'd love to help you."

And I was just like, "Look,
I'm gonna try to help you too."

It was never like, you never said will you
be my mentor.
- No.

- Like will you be my Valentine?
- I think in my head it's like someone
I can ask for advice.
I know they're on the
same direction as me,

or they're doing stuff that
I one day want to be doing.

Someone I look up to.
I always believe in asking
advice from the right people

or from the specific people
that you want advice from.

So I won't ask advice from certain people,
and certain people I will.
And you're one of the people
that I ask advice from.

Or if I've got a new project coming out,
I'll be like hey, Brian,
I just wrote this.

What do you think?
To me, that's what defines a mentor.
It's someone that you
want to know what they

think about what you've just written
or what you've just done.
- No, that's well said.
And something that Dan Pena taught me,
the $50 billion man, who's
technically my mentor, I guess.

He said that he had three
mentors in his life.

One of them was Costa
Gratsos, the right-hand man

of Aristotle Onassis, and
there's two other guys,

and he said the big thing between a mentor
and a mentee is to have
something other than

business to talk about and to do.
So with one of Costa Gratsos,
it was fine food and fine wine.
With one of his other
mentors, they played golf.

With one of his other
mentors, they played tennis.

Because the mentor doesn't wanna talk
shop all the time.
If you're going to someone
and saying tell me more

about how to get a million
YouTube subs, it gets old.

But we would train together.
- We would train together,
and then it would be like,

oh, by the way, what
have you been going on?

And then I'd be, "Oh,
I've been working on this.

"What do you think of this?"
Or it was like just send
me over during the week,

and then I'd shoot you an email.
It wasn't like, right, let's sit down
and discuss and you know.
And we'd just hang out.
- And you were really

generous too.
You never charged me for sessions.
You were super generous.
- I didn't, no.

Well, look what's happened?
- Yeah, well, I don't know if it's all me,
but I want to track this
journey because I think

a lot of people are
interested because, honestly,

a lot of people watching are probably
in a similar place to where you were.
As in, maybe I would
love to have a TED Talk,

I'd love to have a book
deal, I'd love to have

an app coming out, I'd love to
be on the BBC talking stuff.

I mean, you're very humble, Roger,
but you've been blowin'
it up lately with the book

and, not only the book, the
book promotion, everything.

It's going really, really well.
When we met, it's not like
things weren't going well.

You were a successful model.
You were actually a
successful trainer as well.

But what was inside of
you that was wanting more,

wanting something different?
'Cause you could've
carried on that lifestyle,

done very well and been very happy.
- Yeah.
Every time I've trained
someone, they've always

said this is something slightly different.
I always say oh, have you never done this
kind of stuff before, or
when I'm training someone,

I'm always asking what
kind of stuff they've

done with previous trainers.
Like, "What did you do with
your previous trainer?"

"Oh, we used to do this, this and this."
And then after a while
and everyone's going

hang on, I think I'm
doing something really

different to what most people are doing.
And I'm really stuck on the little things.
So instead of getting
someone to jump up and down,

for example, I'm looking at how their feet
land on the floor, to that detail.
And I feel like no other
trainers are doing this,

so I'm like, right, more
people need to know about this.

In my head it's just
more people need to know.

And then, after a while,
when I'm going around

training people, I'm like,
well, the same 10, 15 people

are knowing the same
message over and over again.

And that's not really gonna
make an impact on the world.

If I feel that everyone
needs to know what I've

got to say, then I've
got to find other ways

of doing it, TED Talk, book, app.
- And you weren't happy with what
the fitness industry was teaching?
- No.
- Because, unlike a lot

of personal trainers,
even at Primrose Hill,

a lot of them just say,
oh, I'm the trainer,

I'm gonna bark at these Hempstead moms
that are paying me hundreds
and hundreds of pounds

an hour to jump on the box, to do this,
and then they'll go away happy.
That's not you.
- No.

- You really are analysing the movement.
You're like, okay, why are we doing this?
That was always you, right?
- Yeah.
- You're quite obsessive

about movement.
- (laughs) Extremely.

Most people would see a
personal trainer diploma.

So most personal trainers
would do a personal

trainer diploma, and they would
become a personal trainer.

In the UK, you're then qualified to teach
somebody as a personal trainer.
Now, this takes six
weeks, so you, right now,

could start a course
tomorrow, and in six weeks

time, you're a fully
qualified personal trainer

that is fully responsible
to teach people how to move.

- Is that why I see so
many personal trainers

that are in bad shape?
- Man, like anybody can
be a personal trainer,

and they're not that hard.
But what it really is
is the basis, the very

basis of anatomy and
physiology is very tiny.

What they expect you to do is go out
and study more, to get more qualifications
to go into your field.
What I did is I went to another field.
I was studying functional performance
and functional therapy,
and that's what made me

completely change my
view to how I originally

started personal training.
There we'd do like gait
analysis on people.

So watch people walking,
look at how their feet moved.

So yeah, I did study a lot after to make
sure that I was doing something different.
And definitely what I learned on there,
they basically just
slated personal training.

They were like slating everything.
They were like personal
training is rubbish.

This is what it's all about.
I don't agree that personal
training's rubbish at all.

I think you take that
learning, and then you

can move on, and you take that learning,
and you take pieces out
that you believe in,

that work for you.
- One thing I remember you
always told me when we trained,

when you train other
people, you try to train

with some kind of goal
in mind other than say

working a body part.
You had an ultimate goal
of trying to do a handstand

or trying to do this
tuck or trying to do this

but not do a bunch of ab crunches.
Is that right?
- All of my clients
have been like learning

a handstand or a planche.
They might not know it.
They might think, oh, I don't know why I'm
doing this exercise.
In my head, they're
training for a planche.

In my head, they're
training for the splits.

In my head, it could be a handstand.
It could be any skill.
If you take millions of exercises,
they're all just small progressions
in order for a bigger move,
in gymnastics, anyway.
That's how you'd look at all the moves.
So you don't do a plank for your core.
You do a front support
to train your shoulder

position for a handstand.
So it's a different thought process.
You're not just doing it
because it doesn't make sense.

It doesn't have a carry over.
It's always got to have a
carry over to something bigger.

So any exercise I do,
it's always got to be

towards something, otherwise,
there's no purpose to it.

It's just to look good.
I don't want to do that.
- And if people have this goal in mind,
they're gonna get fit anyways.
- Yeah, if you look at
the lineup of Olympic

gymnasts, you don't see
people like they're overweight

or they're not looking after their bodies.
If you see the lineup for a sprint,
you see phenomenally looking bodies.
You see the lineup for, I could name off,
apart from sumo wrestling,
I could tick off--

- It's not an Olympic event.
- Exactly.

- So if people have that, so
you have that goal in mind,

you're also working a little bit like what
Ido Portal says, you're
working on new neural patterns.

Holding a planche is difficult, and I'm
in hand-balancing courses,
and it's very difficult.

But I get a crazy workout,
but when I go work out

for an hour, I'm not
thinking I'm gonna work

my shoulders and work my
abs, I'm just trying to

hold a handstand for like
a two-minute handstand

last weekend, and everything's working.
But I find it so mentally challenging.
And that's what you do with your clients.
- Yeah, it's huge.
I talk about the mindset of an athlete.
I always say look at
like a female sprinter.

Really hard for women to get a six pack,
and these girls have got abs, you know.
And then, if you think of that person,
when they go to training, are they trying
to get a six pack?
No, they're not.
They're not trying to get a six pack.
They're always trying to
improve their performance.

However, in the fitness
industry, trying to get

a six pack, trying to get a six pack.
It's just a slightly
different way of thinking.

The athlete is always thinking how can I
improve my performance?
And it doesn't matter
whether they're a runner

or whether they're a gymnast.
I love gymnastics.
It doesn't matter what the sport is,
they're always trying to improve that.
As a result of improving that,
you get looking better.
But you never train to look better.
- Right, okay, and so that's
the basis of this book.

You're teaching people all
these different positions.

Some really fun ones in here.
Some really ones I hadn't even thought of
and using walls and
chairs and other things,

or getting out of chairs.
Using other pieces trying to get to a goal
of a position, and anybody
can do these things.

There's beginners and
advanced moves, right?

- Yeah, so there's nine sections.
One's like the headstand.
It's funny, actually,
someone wrote a review.

I shouldn't be looking
at reviews on Amazon.

- No, you shouldn't.
- But I had a quick peruse.

It's funny.
And someone wrote, because
I talk about the squat

as an innate position that
we should all relearn.

And someone wrote, "The
headstand is not an innate

"position that we will relearn."
I was like, I didn't say that. (laughs)
So basically, I love the
headstand and handstand

because you have to move body parts
without the ability to look at them.
So you've got your feet
swinging above your head,

you can't see it, and I'm
like tuck your pelvis,

point your toes, and you've
got to do it without looking.

And that creates a phenomenal
process of self-awareness.

So you've got to become fully self-aware
to be able to do that.
The book is broken down,
you've got your headstand,

frog stand, the squat.
Again, this is very basic stuff.
Basically, if you can do
all of this in the book,

then yeah, go and see Ido Portal.
- Right.
- Because we went to

Ido Portal together.
- Yeah, when I went to take his class,
Roger just showed up.
You are stalking me!
- Oh, I was just there.
- Okay, that's cool.

- Basically, but if you look at that room,
that was a room full of personal trainers,
full of yoga teachers,
full of people really

good at what they do, and
he said at the beginning,

if anyone could do a
handstand, a perfect handstand

right now, stand up and do it.
Did anyone stand up?
- Yeah, one person did.
- One person out of a room of--
- And he failed.
- Yeah, out of a room of people that are
supposed to be personal
trainers and coaches.

So if they can't do any of that stuff,
what about the 95% of office workers?
- And this is what you found when you
were teaching classes here in London.
I remember you told me.
Because you can do
handstands and planches.

I'm sure you want to
get better, but you can

do some nice things as physical feats.
But you found when you try to teach people
that stuff, it's usually way out of--
- Yeah, yeah, 100% way out,
way out of their league.

People, for me I've
found, people really need

to get back to the basics to
be able to sit in the squat.

And some people cannot sit in the squat.
They need to like get some
blocks under their heels.

And that is the majority of people.
The problem is when you're
within the fitness industry,

and you're flicking through Instagram,
you're seeing all this great movement
and all these good people, and then you
forget the other 95%.
So yeah, what I'm about is getting back
to the real world.
Let's talk about 2/3 of 75
year olds have chronic disease.

Let's take it back a step, 'cause it's all
nice doing these fancy
handstands and all this,

but that's a couple of
percent of the population.

- I'm gonna send you a bunch
of my London Real guests,

because I speak to some of the greatest
minds on the planet, but, sometimes,
those greatest minds have the
worst bodies on the planet.

Sometimes these guys are
in their 60s and 70s,

and they're not gonna last unless they get
some movement going.
Seriously, I'm gonna send you some people.
No names will be mentioned.
Look, I want to get into ask you how to
do a TED Talk and get two million views.
I just want the three basic principles
so we can share 'em with people.
And I want to talk about this book,
and I want to talk about your app
and you being on the news.
But, before we go there, tell
me about Roger growing up.

You know, who were you growing up,
and how did you get into this career
of being a model, and what's that like?
- Okay, where am I starting?
- I don't know, you tell me.
- Where am I starting?
Okay, I grew up on a farm
in the middle of England

with seven brothers and sisters.
- What are their names?
- (laughs) Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, no, I'm joking.

- No, come on, what are their names?
- Their names are Freddy, Gloria, David,
Joe, Jane, Phoebe, Peter.
- Okay, it's like the
movie Good Will Hunting

where he just rattles the names off.
- Before anyone asks, they're
all the same mom and dad.

- Oh, they are?
- Yeah, yeah, everyone,
that's the first question.

Same parents?
Yeah.
We grew up on a farm many years ago,
and the farming industry went a bit carp.
And we left when I was about 11.
And then I ended up in Stratford.
This is pre-Olympic Stratford.
- Bad.
- Yeah. (laughs)

- You don't seem to be
- This is bad Stratford.

- Yeah, it was rough.
- So yeah, that was my childhood.
Grew up on a farm, only
knew little white kids,

'cause that's all that was there.
It's in the middle of the
country, many years ago.

And then turn up in Stratford and yeah.
- How old were you when
you went to Stratford?

- Um, probably about 11.
- Okay.
- Yeah.

- But you don't have a
street edge to you, why?

- Um, I don't know.
Maybe, apparently, to some
people I'm a bit Cockney.

- Okay, maybe a little Cockney.
- Sometimes, sometimes it drops out.
But my whole world got like flipped,
which I really think has
made me what I am today.

To go from one environment
and to everything

just be like opposite.
For me, that's completely,
that was a game changer.

- Okay, what do you think it did to you?
- I was like, man, if I
can survive in this school.

This school has got like
gun detectors, right?

- Did you get beat up?
- Yeah, yeah, it was horrific.
- Gun detectors.
- Worst experience of my life,

which made me leave with like no GCSEs,
so I don't have any
GCSEs because I was like

I can't even stand this place.
This is horrible.
So I went to work with my dad.
- Okay, what was horrible about it?
- What was horrible?
Man, it was like, I just never met so many
crap people in my life.
- Bad attitudes, bad energy?
- Just with everything, yeah.

It was just--
- Bad teachers.

- I couldn't focus on my schooling.
All my whole thought process
was like what's gonna happen?

Do I impress someone,
or what's gonna happen

at lunchtime or at break time?
So, for me, my whole
schooling just got ruined.

And I couldn't focus, so I just started
acting like an idiot.
And then I was just getting in trouble
with teachers, because I was being stupid.
I was acting up, because I just couldn't
focus on this schoolwork.
So I guess when people first meet me,
they don't know any of this.
They assume that I've got
some kind of a high education,

and ah--
- Yeah, it seems like

- I popped out the other side.
- Eton-schooled, into male

modelling, wealthy family.
- Yeah, but yeah.
- Not true.

- Not true, at all.
Very different.
Now, if I look back, I'm
happy for that experience.

I went through that, and
I came out the other side.

And, yeah, life experience, that was huge.
- And it taught you what, do you think?
You said you changed.
- I guess it taught me
just life experience.
That's probably the best
way I could describe it.

It taught me how to survive the street,
which is like completely different.
Or when you have conversations or stuff,
I was really shy before
when I was in Northampton,

and when I first went to this school,
I remember them going like,
"What's this accent, mate?"

And just ripping me.
Now, I can look back and laugh.
I think the whole thing's funny.
- So it toughened you up and made
you more street smart.
- Yeah, definitely.
Now, it's like whenever I'm
like, oh, I can't do that.

I'm like, man, you went through that,
of course you can do that.
Now, looking back, I don't
see it as a bad thing,

'cause I've done courses
and I've redeveloped

my way of thinking.
But, yeah, at the time, it sucked.
Now I can sit back and laugh.
Okay, that was funny.
I don't feel sorry for myself in any way
I have to get over.
- How did you get into modelling?
- I was scouted.
It was my sister's birthday, and there was
a fashion photographer there.
My two older brothers are models.
They were models, but I never wanted to.
I did carpentry.
And they were like, you should be a model.
And I was like, I don't
care about modelling.

I just wanted to focus on my carpentry.
- Do you like carpentry?
Are you a good carpenter?
- No, I used to.

No, really, I did an MVQ in it.
And then I was working alongside my dad.
When I left school, I
was working with him.

And then I was halfway through that
and then got scouted.
This was like within a
day, it was quite weird.

So I went in there,
and they just took some

pictures of me in the
studio kind of like this

and then had some black and white pictures
in a portfolio, an actual
thing, it's not online then.

This was 15 years ago, it wasn't online.
Hand it to you and they
let you, off you go.

And you go out and you
have seven appointments

in like a day, so you
go around and you visit

all these casting directors.
- And what happened?

- Yeah, and then.
- You got hired?
- It just blew up, yeah.

- Blew up pretty quick,
like in the first year

you're makin' big money?
- Yeah, I was like in GQ,

Dazed and Confused, Idea magazine.
Went to New York, did
Ralph Lauren campaigns.

I was in Esquire here.
Went to Milan, I was
walking down the catwalk

for Dolce Gabbana.
I was just like a farm boy who ended up
in Stratford and now I'm
walkin' down the catwalk

for Dolce Gabbana, so.
- And what was the Frampton
look that they liked?

What do you think?
Why?
- I don't know.

'Cause for me, this is just genetics.
I haven't done anything to like.
I guess, most people
would describe me as like

classically good looking.
- Okay.
- Yeah, whatever that frickin' means.
- Kind of like Abercrombie and Fitch.
- Yeah, Abercrombie kind of
cheek-bony, that kind of thing.

Now, I probably wouldn't
be able to be a model.

These kids are huge, man.
These kids are like six food three.
I'm six foot.
- Oh, for the runway, you mean?
- Yeah, yeah.
- Okay.

Which is different modelling--
- I'll be wearing like

Air Force Ones to castings to give
me an extra couple of inches.
- Because runway modelling is different
from magazine modelling.
- Yeah, so in runway, they want everyone
to be the same silhouette, ideally.
It could be like a large
silhouette or a skinny silhouette.

It depends on the designer
or the style or the stylist
or whatever he's chosen.

Generally, they'll have
the same silhouette

run throughout the show.
So it'd look weird if you had
loads of six foot two models

and then one like 5'
11" guy in the middle.

- Okay.
And what makes a successful model?
Like, your first four years, you know.
- I don't really know, just
turn up to every casting.

Just turn up to every job, be respectful.
Don't act like a dickhead.
- You're always professional.
You're a lot of fun on sets, right?
You're always goofing around.
- Yeah, have a laugh.
When I started, we didn't have Instagram
or Facebook or any of that, so like now,
the whole game has changed.
It's like how many followers do you have
or whatever, I don't know how
it frickin' works these days.

I feel sorry for kids trying
to get into modelling now.

'Cause then it was about
finding a new face,

and then that face would
last a couple of seasons.

Now it seems to just flip
around between each guy.

You've got one look for that season
and then he's done, and then
you've got another look.

- What's the dirty secret of
the male modelling industry?

- What's the dirty secret in what way?
- You know, are there eating disorders,
are there drug problems,
is there sexual harassment?

- No, man, you know--
- There must be something?
- We're the guys, right?
We're talking like ripped up guys.
Before an Armani show, we
all went for McDonald's.

We're not.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
it's just genetic, right?

Or these guys that are in good shape,
they're not all backstage
like getting pumped up,

and they don't train seven days a week.
- 'Cause they're 20 years
old and, at that point,

it's genetic.
- 'Cause they're 20 years old

and they're just shredded.
And there's nothing that anyone's done.
I was into training, but I'm sure there's
people that have trained
like 20 times harder than me,

and they still never get near.
- But nobody wants to hear that.
- No, you don't want to hear it
and so then you, but I'm not
here going get a six pack.

I'm here saying move better.
But if I was here going get a six pack
when I've got one genetically,
than they'd be like, all
right, that's pretty harsh.

- Okay.
And so you modelled for
a long time, 15 years,

that's a crazy, I mean, most models
probably last three years.
- Yeah, it's 15 years
this April.
- How do you last?

- Again, I don't know.
I just think it's luck.
Just keep turning up to
castings, keep pluggin' it.

I've always had other things going on,
which I think is very important.
A lot of models I know will just wait
for the phone to ring and only be a model.
When I was like 18, I
was working in nightclubs

like as a bartender,
training, I've always trained,

always coached other people, done courses
outside of it, obviously all
the fitness stuff as well.

So I always just kept myself really busy.
So you don't constantly rely on modelling,
and then just modelling will just flow.
That's the plan.
- And what happens when
you're on the Dolce Gabbana

catwalk in Milan walking down, come on,
the after parties?
Or did you just go home and
did planches afterwards?

- No, no, no, man, we went out.
We had some crazy nights, of course.
Yeah, yeah, late, we partied hard.
Like now, Dolce Gabbana,
they only use influencers.

I don't think they use models anymore
for their catwalks.
- Okay, so they all have
Instagram followings.

- Yeah, yeah, exactly,
so that's what I mean

in terms of that designer,
the game has changed.

- Okay, what's a good party in Milan
with Dolce and Gabbana, like,
what happens at parties?

- Yeah, I mean, you don't really see them.
It's just like all the
designers and everything.

- Come on, tell me what
happens at the party, Roger!

- (laughs) What do you wanna hear?
- The truth.
- No, Brian, you just get wasted.
Just get wasted.
- Okay, and you hang out