Psychology of an Anti-Hero: JACK SPARROW - VoiceTube: Learn English through videos!

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Cap'n' Jack: The only rules that really matter are these...
What a man can do, and what a man can't do.
Jono: His mission statement is that he's egocentric and his worth is derived from personal gain, power, and pleasure.
Alan: And plundering his weasely black guts out.
Jono: And none of that is helping other people.
It is literally all about what he wants to get out of life.
I don't care how this is going to affect other people.
I don't care what the law or the rules are.
I'm going to do what I want to do.
Will: You cheated.
Cap'n' Jack: Pirate.
Jono: Everybody knows he's an eel. Everybody knows he's going to hurt them.
He's going to do what's best for him.
But he's just so charming...
Alan: He's so charming, he can sometimes get away with it.
Norrington: You are, without doubt, the worst pirate I've ever heard of.
Cap'n' Jack: But you have heard of me.
Jono: Hello and welcome to Cinema Therapy.
I'm Jonathan Decker, licensed therapist and I love movies. This is...
Alan: Alan Seawright, professional filmmaker who needs the therapy.
Jono: And today we are diving into one of our Psychology of a Hero episode.
Alan: Would we call him a hero...?
Jono: Anti-hero.
He's not a full on villain.
Alan: It's definitely not Villain Therapy...
Jono: But he's not especially a Good Guy™.
Alan: Psychology of an Anti-Hero.
Jono: Yeah. There we go.
Captain Jack Sparrow.
Damn you, Jack Sparraaaaaaaa!
Jono: What a great first film.
Alan: Yep.
And there are some other films, too.
Cap'n' Jack: Welcome to the Caribbean, love.
Jono: And some of you are deeply hurt because you love them all.
And you know what? Good for you.
Alan: That's great.
Jono: I'm very intrigued by Jack as an example of...
He starts as a side character, he becomes a protagonist.
I would diagnose him with antisocial personality disorder,
which is usually something that you would diagnose a villain with.
Like, just how movies are made.
Cap'n' Jack: Oh, bugger...
Jono: When I talk about antisocial, most people say that, like, I'm antisocial.
What they mean is they don't like to socialize or they're introverted.
Alan: They're introverted. That's different.
Jono: But when psychologists say antisocial, they're talking about behaviors that are
impulsive, reckless, criminal,
and have a high disregard for the feelings, or outcomes,
or how it affects other people.
Alan: They're called filmmakers.
Jono: So we're going to take a look at Jack's trajectory across the films
and see if someone with antisocial personality disorder
can learn any sort of accountability to other people, or empathy, et cetera, et cetera.
Cap'n' Jack: Look.
An undead monkey.
Alan: That is a great question because, famously, Jack Sparrow...
Doesn't.
Jono: And here we go.
Alan: This is maybe the greatest character introduction of all time.
If it's not the best one, it's in the top ten.
Because it's this big, epic, sweeping...
The shots, and the score, and the stuff. And...
Here we go. And it's a big hero...
Oh, puddle...
Come on!
I've seen this so many times and it's still funny.
Jono: Oh, it's so good.
Jono: And... Alan: Sorry, I have to cut you off again.
jono: Wha...?
Jono: Oh, this... Alan: Because we're... Okay, what's happening?
Oh, it's the big epic hero.
Okay, he's coming in.
And this...
Do you know how much work,
and how many tens of thousands of dollars they spent on that joke?
That was a $50,000 plus joke.
Jono: Worth every penny.
Alan: And it was worth every penny.
That was a... That's worth $10 million.
I mean, the... Like, $10 million of the box office
was just him... whoop. And then just... meep, meep, meep.
Like, and my favorite, favorite, favorite piece about that,
Alan: is the character building that it does. Jono: Yeah.
Alan: He's in a crappy little boat and it is sinking.
Everything is going wrong and his arrival is just like, I planned this.
Jono: Yeah, well, he arrives like a boss, like this is...
He... Like, he's on top. Like, he's just as proud of this, as if he were...
Alan: I am Captain Jack Sparrow.
Cap'n' Jack: Savvy?
Jono: Always with his... His personal...
Jono: I don't want to say dignity, but always with his pride intact. Alan: Yes.
Jono: You know, I don't... I don't think dignity is the word for Captain Jack. Alan: No, he has none.
None of that.
Jono: So let's get back to antisocial personality disorder.
He's going to give it to us in his mission statement, what he's all about.
Jono: I love a good mystery.
Like Jack solving the mysteries of Davy Jones' locker.
Alan: And uncovering family secrets, like Will finding out the truth about his dad.
Jono: And finding things, like how Jack finds the Black Pearl over and over.
Alan: And over.
Alan: That's why we're loving June's Journey.
It is a hidden object mystery game with a murder mystery, family secrets, and a whole lot more.
Jono: This episode is sponsored by June's Journey. It's a mobile game that's free to download.
Alan: I love this game. The art style, the 1920s esthetic.
It is a hidden object game, so obviously you're going to be looking at the art a lot.
So it's nice that it's good.
Also the remodeling aspect, like, you're improving the grounds of your mansion
and, like, updating it. It's a... It's weirdly satisfying.
Jono: Right? Because you're like, I'm supposed to be solving a murder, but while I'm here...
Alan: While I'm here... Jono: I'm going to redecorate.
Alan: Let's get some new garden furniture.
Why do I love this?!
I do, though.
Jono: So I like to play in between my therapy sessions.
I have 5 to 10 minutes just to kind of, like, recharge and reset my brain.
And so I like to pull it up, pick up where I left off,
and I feel relaxed, I feel engaged, I feel distracted in, like, all the right ways.
So when I see my next therapy client, I'm like, Okay. Reset. Let's do this.
Alan: I like to play when I'm on set and I'm supposed to be talking to the...
the gaffer and the electricians.
I just ignore them and pull up June's Journey.
It is really Zen, helps clear your mind of thought,
except... solving a murder.
Jono: Download June's Journey for free by clicking the link below in the description.
June's Journey is available on Android and iOS mobile devices,
as well as on PC through Facebook Games.
Murtogg: What's your name?
Cap'n' Jack: Smith.
Or Smithy, if you like.
Mullroy: What's your purpose in Port Royal, Mr. Smith?
Murtogg: Yeah. And no lies.
Cap'n' Jack: Why then...
I confess.
It is my intention to commandeer one of these ships,
pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder, and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out.
Murtogg: I said no lies.
Mullroy: I think he's telling the truth.
Murtogg: If he were telling the truth, he wouldn't have told us.
Cap'n' Jack: Unless, of course, he knew you wouldn't believe the truth,
even if he told it to you.
Alan: Incredible, incredible performance from Johnny Depp.
Those two guys don't get enough credit because you can't sell that joke
without them being like, What...? He wouldn't have told us.
It doesn't work without them.
Jono: The first Pirates of the Caribbean has what I call the Dark Knight problem.
In that when you see The Dark Knight, you're so honed in on Heath Ledger
because it's such a unique, legendary performance right out of the gate
that you don't really pay attention to... Aaron Eckhart is really good in that movie. Alan: Really, really good.
Jono: Maggie Gyllenhaal, Michael Caine, Christian Bale, like, Morgan Freeman, everyone's killing it.
But Heath Ledger is just so... BOOM
Alan: He's so spectacular that you don't pay attention to anything else.
Jono: Yeah. Pirates of the Caribbean... Everyone thinks of Johnny Depp.
Everyone's brilliant in that first film.
Alan: Everyone's very good in the first movie.
Jono: I will go to bat for Orlando Bloom and Keira Knightley, especially in that first film.
They have great chemistry and he... You need a perfect...
When I say straight man, I'm not talking sexuality. I'm talking comedic.
You need a straight man foil for all of Captain Jack's weirdness.
Alan: Because if you've just got weirdness and then nobody reacts,
it's like, Well, I guess this is normal.
Jono: It's wonderful.
But his mission statement is that he's egocentric,
and his worth is derived from personal gain, power, and pleasure.
Alan: And plundering is weasely black guts out.
Jono: I mean, he lifts off in rapid succession what he's all about. Alan: Yeah.
Jono: And none of that is helping other people Alan: No.
Jono: Or behaving in a way that is at least responsible to other people. Alan: Right.
Jono: It is literally all about what he wants to get out of life,
which is, you know, the pirate's code and the pirate's life.
But if we're looking at this individual character, it's an issue.
Will: My father was NOT a pirate.
Cap'n' Jack: Put it away, son.
It's not worth you getting beat again.
Will: You didn't beat me.
You ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you.
Cap'n' Jack: And that's not much incentive for me to fight fair then, is it?
[It's called a boom for a reason...]
Cap'n' Jack: Now, as long as you're just hanging there, pay attention.
The only rules that really matter are these...
What a man can do, and what a man can't do.
Jono: What?
Alan: It's just so much fun.
"Not a lot of incentive for me to fight fair".
Like... No, there isn't.
Jono: It's like, "You cheated". And he goes...
Cap'n' Jack: Pirate.
Jono: And we see when he's talking about the rules of engagement.
Like, Jack doesn't care about legal or ethical behavior.
Alan: No.
Jono: And once again, you could say, Well, that's just a pirate.
But in the real world, that is a sign of antisocial personality disorder.
I don't care how this is going to affect other people.
I don't care what the law or the rules are.
Jono: I'm going to do what I want to do. Alan: Right.
Jono: It's part of what makes him so refreshing because that's not heroic in the slightest.
That's not what we look for in our heroes.
Which is also why in the first film, Will's the hero.
Alan: Oh, Will is absolutely the hero. Like, he has an arc, he learns he grows.
Captain Jack Sparrow starts...
The beginning of the movie, he wants the Black Pearl
At the end of the movie, he wants the Black Pearl.
Nothing changes. There is zero growth.
The only thing that happens is events along the way to him getting the Black Pearl.
Jono: Yeah.
Alan: That's it.
Jono: Yeah.
Cap'n' Jack: STOP BLOWING HOLES IN MY SHIP!
Jono: Something that we see that denotes antisocial personality disorder
is Jack has a lack of concern for the needs or feelings of other people.
Alan: Anyone.
Jono: And a lack of remorse when he screws them over.
Alan: Yep.
Man, it is stunning to me how well these visual effects still hold up.
Alan: "Oh..."
Fishface: You have a debt to pay up.
You've been captain of the Black Pearl for 13 years. That was our agreement.
Cap'n' Jack: Technically, I was only cap'n' for two years.
Then I was viciously mutinied upon.
Davy Jones: Then you were a poor captain, but a captain nonetheless.
Have you not introduced yourself all these years as "Captain Jack Sparrow"?
Jono: Bill Nighy is amazing.
Cap'n' Jack: You have my payment. One soul...
Alan: Bill Nighy is one of the greatest.
Davy Jones: One soul is not equal to another Jono: "He's already over there".
Cap'n' Jack: Aha! So we've established my proposal is sound in principle.
Now we're just haggling over price.
Jono: So he abandoned Will.
Alan: "And now we're just haggling over price".
Davy Jones: Price...?
Cap'n' Jack: Just how many souls do you think my soul is worth?
Davy Jones: One hundred souls.
Three days.
Cap'n' Jack: You're a diamond, mate.
Send me back the boy. I'll get started right off.
Davy Jones: I keep the boy. 99 souls.
But I wonder, Sparrow...
Can you live with this?
Can you condemn an innocent man, a friend...
to a lifetime of servitude in your name while you roam free?
Cap'n' Jack: Yep, I'm good with it.
So, shall we seal it in blood?
Jono: So at the end of the first film, Will risked his neck to save Jack.
Alan: Yeah.
Jono: And Jack is grateful because Jack doesn't want to die.
Alan: Right.
Jono: But he's not that grateful.
Alan: Not grateful enough for it to change anything.
Jono: No. Because we see here, like, he sends Will to take his place.
And then when the things... when the fortunes change,
he's like, Well, maybe I can get Will back and manipulate...
You know, he would be miserable if he were married. So just let him come back.
But if it's going to be his neck or Will's, it's just Will's.
Alan: Yeah.
Jono: Even though Jack's the one who has the debt to pay,
Jack's the one who basically made a deal with the devil,
and he's willing to sell out his friend.
That, my friends, is antisocial personality disorder.
Alan: Oh...
Jono: It doesn't always take the form of, I am not willing to do any sort of good in the world.
It can take the form of, Yeah, I'll do right by somebody,
as long as it doesn't cost me too greatly or as long as I can get something out of it.
Not surprisingly, this discompassionate, selfish approach to life
leads to interpersonal relationship problems.
Angelica: Yeah, you haven't changed.
Cap'n' Jack: Implying the need?
Angelica: Yes.
Soldier: Open the door in the name of His Majesty.
Angelica: You betrayed me.
You seduced me and you used me.
I was innocent to the ways of men.
Cap'n' Jack: You demonstrated a lot of technique for someone I supposedly corrupted.
Scrum: Imminent danger. Here, now, milady.
Soldier: Open it!
Angelica: I was ready to take my vows. And you?
What were you doing in a Spanish convent, anyway?
Cap'n' Jack: Mistook it for a brothel. Honest mistake.
Jono: See? You don't even like that movie.
Alan: Nope. Sure don't.
Can't get enough of Jack Sparrow.
Jono: Most of us kept going back to these reheated leftovers,
knowing that they weren't that good anymore.
But he's just having so much fun.
Here at Cinema Therapy, we don't really comment on controversy
or actors' personal lives or anyone's personal lives, for that matter.
The reason being, where would we stop?
Alan: Well, we don't know.
Jono: Yeah.
Alan: We don't know.
We know what's in court records, I guess, but, like...
Jono: So, you know, we stand for people treating each other well. Alan: Yes.
Jono: We stand for mental health. Alan: Yes.
Jono: Where wrongdoing has been done, we oppose that. But we're about the art. Alan: Yeah.
Jono: And so we're just going to leave it at that.
We later learn that he actually had feelings for her,
which he even has a hard time saying the word and everything.
Alan: Yeah.
Cap'n' Jack: No, no, no. Not quite all the way to feelings. More like...
All right. Feelings, damn you.
Jono: But he allowed his anti-social tendencies to get in the way.
His manipulation, his deceitfulness, and the fact that he just uses and discards people.
[slap]
Cap'n' Jack: I may have deserved that.
Jono: And he's always just using charm to get what he wants.
Everybody knows he's an eel. Everybody knows he's going to hurt them.
He's going to do what's best for him. But he's just so charming.
Alan: He's so charming, he can sometimes get away with it.
Cap'n' Jack: You know, these clothes do not flatter you at all.
It should be a dress or nothing. I happen to have no dress in my cabin.
Elizabeth: Jack...
Jono: Charming and likable, and it's true for the character,
and it's true for these people in real life,
which is why we so often get hurt by them over and over and over again,
because they're really good at pretending they're sorry.
They're really good at showing fake remorse.
They're really good at playing this role that's really got an angle.
Cap'n' Jack: My tremendous intuitive sense of the female creature informs me that you are troubled.
Jono: And it's interesting because we all love Captain Jack Sparrow,
Jono: but in real life, this is deplorable. Alan: Oh, none of us would want to be friends with him.
Jono: Yeah
Alan: no, he's fun to watch. You wouldn't want him in your life.
Ugh, terrible. You would mutiny against him. There's a reason he can't keep a ship.
Jono: Another trait of antisocial personality disorder is extreme irresponsibility. It's mentioned that...
Alan: Jack Sparrow?
Jono: Yeah. He owes all of the Pirate Lords money.
Alan: He owes everybody money.
Jono: He doesn't want to go. He's like, he owes all the money.
He tries to get out of the deal with Davy Jones.
Zoe Saldana is mad at him because, you know, he bait and switched her and owes her a ship.
Just all over the place.
Jono: He's just doesn't follow through with what he says he's going to do. Alan: Yeah.
Jono: Also an antisocial PD trait.
Impulsivity.
Acts in the spur of the moment without a plan.
Beckett: You're mad.
Cap'n' Jack: Thank goodness for that. Because if I wasn't, this would probably never work.
Jono: He should be dead.
Alan: So many times over.
And it just...
Okay, listen, I don't love Pirates 2 and Pirates 3.
There are so many moments like that that are brilliant.
Cutting way wide on that shot and just having this little guy
with his arms and legs just windmilling and Johnny Depp just going
WHAAAAAAAAA!
Like, it's a cartoon and it's brilliant.
Cap'n' Jack: Did everyone see that?
Because I will not be doing it again.
Jono: I watched these all with my kids and now they they all run like Captain Jack.
Like this floppy thing that...
And other characters are often... They're wondering whether he plans or whether he improvises.
And it's confirmed in the 4th film in a conversation with Barbossa
Jono: that he does, in fact, just make this all up as he goes. Alan: I have no idea what I'm doing.
Cap'n' Jack: Sometimes I just...
Improvise.
Jono: Oftentimes they're skilled enough at improvising.
That's a big reason why they don't plan because they're so used to things just panning out their way.
This is made big in Pirates because Jack does stuff like that.
Alan: And he somehow lands on a yardarm instead of just splatting.
Jono: And in real life, someone with antisocial PD can start thinking, I am invincible.
I am invincible!
Alan: What would you do to help this man?
Is he helpable?
Jono: It's hard. It comes down to what you value, right?
So, for example, I'm somebody who values relationships and I value integrity.
And so if I discover that I've been acting out of an...
Like, outside of integrity without meaning to, then I want to make it right.
Or if my well-intentioned efforts to do right by somebody
actually end up in me hurting them, then I have motivation to shift course.
With someone like Jack Sparrow....
He doesn't have a lot of motivation to change.
What he values is what he's getting.
Alan: Right.
Jono: You know, he's getting a lot of casual sex.
Like, I'm not knocking that, but like, he doesn't want connection.
I mean, same as anybody, when the pain of staying the same
is greater than the pain of changing, then you'll change.
Alan: Right.
Jono: And so what has to happen with someone like this is
oftentimes it's a legal issue. Like, they're not going to have freedom
to do the things and pursue the things they want because they've encountered some sort of legal trouble.
And so a lot of them will say, Okay, how can I be more charming,
more manipulative, more intelligent to work the system?
Those that actually change, it doesn't happen with a lot of them,
but they start to have real connections.
And you might watch this and say, Well, someone's truly antisocial PD, they can't...
Jono: They can't truly connect with someone. But the thing is, it's a spectrum, right? Alan: Right.
Jono: And someone can meet all the criteria and still have enough of that in them
that it starts to come out.
Jono: Like, yes... Like... Oh my gosh...
Alan: What...?
Jono: I would do Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to challenge thinking errors
and behaviors that limit or hurt him, that he's not seeing. These are limiting or hurting me.
I would also do group therapy with people who hold him accountable strongly.
Alan: Ooh...
Elizabeth: Because you and I are alike.
And there will come a moment when you have the chance to show it.
To do the right thing.
Cap'n' Jack: I love those moments.
I like to wave at them as they pass by.
Elizabeth: You'll have the chance to do something...
Something courageous.
And when you do, you'll discover something.
That you're a good man.
Cap'n' Jack: All evidence to the contrary.
Elizabeth: Oh, I have faith in you.
Want to know why?
Cap'n' Jack: Do tell, dearie?
Elizabeth: Curiosity.
You're going to want it.
A chance to be admired and gain the rewards that follow.
Jono: Did he just exhale?
Elizabeth: You won't be able to resist.
You're going to want to know...
What it tastes like.
Jono: It's simultaneously funny and kind of gross.
Alan: It's...
Jono: Elizabeth is doing a type of cognitive behavioral therapy here, though,
because Jack's never...
Alan: She's certainly deprogramming him.
Jono: The only thing that works with Jack Sparrow is baser instincts.
Alan: His libido.
Jono: Well, it's libido, and the praise and adulation.
He's never really considered doing the right thing
because it hasn't appealed to him. And what she's saying is the love,
the adoration and what it feels like to do the right thing.
Alan: That may be better than riches, which is all you've ever gotten,
but not very often and not for very long.
Jono: And also the the rewards that come with it.
These movies are so innuendo-heavy for a Disney film. Like, they're...
Alan: They're pretty filthy.
Jono: Yeah, they really are.
But what she's doing is she's planting in his head the idea that maybe there's a path and an avenue
Jono: that he hasn't explored yet that's worth exploring. Alan: Yeah.
Alan: Can I just take a moment to appreciate...
that I just learned from my friend that Elizabeth Swan...
basically seducing a dude was actually cognitive behavioral therapy.
Jono: Yeah, it's not a type I could do and keep my license.
Alan: It's... Listen, buddy, I love you. It's not a type you could do.
Jono Duckling: Wow...
How many of you think that I could?
Sound off in the comments below.
Alan: Please don't. Please, just don't.
No, no, definitely not.
Alan: We don't need that.
He doesn't need it. We don't need it.
Nobody needs it.
[sailor screaning]
Jono: And he had...
He'd left. In his boat.
Alan: That's a hero shot for you.
Alan: Oww...
Alan: You remembered before, this shot had been done to death?
Me neither.
Jono: That still works here.
Alan: It's fun.
Jono: So why do you think he came back?
Alan: I think Elizabeth Swan's very sexy CBT may have worked.
Hey, look, there's... There's hope out there for you, Antisocial Personality Disorder folks.
Just find yourself an Elizabeth Swan.
Jono: Well, he was half hoping that he could hook up with her
if he did the heroic thing. But I really believe,
like, when you see him in the lifeboat and he sees the attack happening,
what he's looking at is his crew and he goes back
and then, of course, she bait and switches him and he dies a hero's death.
Cap'n' Jack: Hello, beastie.
Alan: One complaint that people have about these movies
is that they were writing the script while the movie was ongoing, right?
Like, they'd already started shooting and they didn't have a locked script and whatever.
And that's a common thing that, like, when a movie is a disaster,
like, Oh, they were still writing it while they were going.
That also happens a lot in movies that are good.
Elizabeth: They're more like guidelines anyway.
Alan: Star Wars famously was a complete mess all the way through the shoot and into the edit,
Alan: and then later... Jono: And then they found it in the edit
Alan: They changed some stuff and rewrote things, and... Movies aren't done until you release them.
Jono: I had a different experience than you did with Pirates 2 and 3,
and I found that I enjoyed 2 and 3 a lot more this time than when they came out.
Alan: Interesting.
Jono: I thought the storytelling was better than I remembered it being.
There's still problems, but like...
And I especially appreciated the direction.
Like, I just...
Alan: Oh, the direction was phenomenal.
And I did not have the same experience you did watching them again.
I watched them and was like, Hey, Marvel showed us we can do this kind of thing, but it won't suck.
Jono: All the pirate mythology is bogged down and there's too much.
But as far as Jack's arc, I think it's really strong
because here we have somebody at the end of Pirates 2. Elizabeth betrays him to his death.
In Pirates 3, his crew comes to Davy Jones locker to rescue him.
And he says, Did nobody come here because they missed me? And nobody missed him.
Alan: Yeah, nobody.
Cap'n' Jack: Why should I sail with any of you?
Four of you have tried to kill me in the past. One of you succeeded.
Jono: Will in Pirates 3 absolutely hates him.
And what Jack is seeing, and this has a real life parallel,
If I have antisocial PD, I may think I'm special enough and charming enough
that I can abuse and mistreat people, and they will always be there for me.
Alan: I can get away with this forever.
Jono: And Jack has relationships with all of these characters
and with Gibbs and everybody. I value them, but I don't care about them.
I value them for what they can give me. I value them for the companionship.
But he loses everybody because his selfish, manipulative deceitfulness finally catches up to him.
He's like, Fine, nobody likes me. Everybody hates me. I'll just be immortal.
Alan: I'll be captain of the Flying Dutchman where nobody can leave.
Jono: But his conscience has been pricked by how he's mistreated everybody
and how he's lost everybody because they don't like him anymore.
And then we get to this.
Davy Jones: Tell me, William Turner...
Do you fear death?
Cap'n' Jack: Do you?
Jono: So Jack is going to save Will and Elizabeth and their relationship
because it serves him, because he can do that...
Cap'n' Jack: Heady tonic, holding life and death in the palm of one's hand.
Jono: And if he kills Davy Jones, he can be the new captain.
So, again, he'll help people as long as it serves him.
Cap'n' Jack: Cruel is a matter of perspective.
Davy Jones: Is it?
[Will groans]
Davy Jones: Ha ha ha.
Ha ha ha ha.
Alan: In a movie full of twists, that was actually one I didn't see coming.
And I really liked it.
Jono: Yeah.
Elizabeth: Look at me. Stay with me.
Jono: Well, and here's Jack. If he stabs the heart now, he can be immortal.
But Will and Elizabeth are separated and Will dies.
Alan: Oh, my gosh. Okay, ugh, just...
Jono: The makeup?
Alan: I have, like, a weird amount of trypophobia.
Like, the whole thing. And there's so many of the makeups in this movie. Just...
Just make me itchy.
Elizabeth: Will...
Jono: But this is the moment for Jack.
He's always done the selfish thing.
And in the second movie, when he shows up to save the crew,
it's heroic, but it's not entirely selfless.
'Cause he's looking for glory.
Alan: The animation on all of his face tentacles, like, writhing.
Jono: But here he puts it in Will's hand.
Davy Jones: Calipso...
Jono: And Will's going to die and then come back as the captain,
and Will's going to live forever. And Jack just gave up his own immortality.
So when does this work? In real life, like I said, it's tricky
because a lot of times people with this disorder don't value relationships,
and so you can't motivate them with relationships, but you can motivate them with their pleasures.
You can motivate them with their personal gain.
Or you can motivate them out of fear of legal trouble or things like that.
In some cases, they fit all the criteria for antisocial personality disorder,
but there is enough desire for human connection buried deep within there,
which we discover with Captain Jack,
which is why the fourth and fifth films, while not my favorite,
I do like that he's more of an actual hero in those movies.
And the fourth one, he goes up in the lighthouse and he risks his neck to save everybody who's getting killed.
Right? And in the fifth film, he does right by Will Turner's son and reunites the family.
And Jack is more heroic.
To me, that's a natural extension of his arc that we see at the end of this film.
It does make him a little bit less interesting.
Alan: It does, for sure.
They still make $1 billion every time they make one. Maybe I'm wrong.
Jono: Even though the films are a mixed bag and some of you watching will say, No, they're not.
I love every last one of them, and good for you, but...
Alan: Absolutely, love them to death. That's great.
Jono: But we are fans of Johnny Depp's portrayal and the character.
Alan: So until next time...
Jono: But you have heard of me.
Alan: Why is the rum always gone?
Jono: And...
Jono: Watch m-- Alan: Really bad eggs.
Jono: Really bad eggs.
Well played.
Alan: We wish to thank our sponsors... No, our Patrons.
Jono: Melissa Miller,
Alan: Courtney Elizabeth Seah,
Jono: Sara H.,
Alan: Sam Watts,
Jono: Chris Atkinson.
Alan: You're all the real anti-heroes.
Jono: Indeed.
Alan: Cheers, mate.
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