Megan Thee Stallion & Rep. Maxine Waters on Standing Up for Black Women and The Genius of 'WAP'

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- I'm so nervous.
- Oh no, you're not.
- I just can't believe it.
- Well, thank you for inviting me to
do this little interview with you.
- Thank you for even being a part of it
like I'm so (indistinct) right now.
I don't even know what to say.
(light hearted music)
- Really excited to talk with you this afternoon.
Thank you for taking the time.
So Representative Waters wrote you a letter
in support after your New York times op-ed
your really wonderful New York times op-ed this fall.
And I'm wondering if you can speak a bit about
what it meant to receive that letter from her.
And then Representative Waters.
If you can speak a little bit about
what moved you to send that letter.
Just to receive any type of recognition
from the wonderful Ms. Waters.
It really blew my mind because
I know that it's me being a young black woman
in my generation the things that I fight for,
the things that I talk about every day,
it seems new for us because we're just now going through it.
But to be recognized by a woman that has always spoke out
about these issues and has always been an advocate
for black women and just black
the whole black community, I felt,
I felt overwhelmed.
I felt seen,
I just felt very appreciative because I'm like, okay,
it's hard to feel like you're doing something new.
It's, it's hard to feel like
I'm speaking about something for the first time.
Cause I've never done it before.
And I'm seeing the things that people are saying to me
and how so, you know, some people
may not agree with what I'm saying.
They feel, they feel like it's controversial.
And all I'm saying is protect black women.
And now people are taking it like it's,
I'm saying something crazy.
So just to be supported by another black woman who,
sends the same message, I feel like, you know what?
I am doing the right thing and I'm gonna keep doing it.
Cause Maxine Waters said I can.
- Great, that's great.
Well, let me just tell you that
I was moved by your article.
And I was so pleased that you wrote the article
for a lot of reasons.
Often times, particularly happens with entertainers.
They put you on a box.
And somehow they don't see you as a person who has a life
that includes family.
That includes interactions,
decisions that you have to make.
That has nothing to do with your performance.
And so they don't see you
as thinking about the plight, for example,
of black women or civil rights or any of these issues.
So that's why I was very pleased that you wrote it.
And so when we saw it, we thought, wow, this is great.
And I'm so pleased.
Let's let's write her.
Let's, let's let her know that
we think that, that she's doing a great thing
and has done a great thing.
And I want you to know that when you,
you know speak yourself and you say maybe,
people think you're being too controversial,
et cetera et cetera, pay that no attention.
But some people who don't have courage,
and don't have confidence,
they don't understand it when they see it in other people.
So you, you should be proud of that.
You should be proud of who you are.
And I know you are, and not only are your talent,
but you're a person who, what do you care about?
And, and what is it you're doing,
that is not only good for you but good for others?
So thank you very much.
And I'm pleased to be with you.
- Wonderful, thank you so much.
That sort of brings me to my next question, which is,
what's the biggest lesson you hope
that young black women can sort of learn
from this current moment that we're in?
- Well, you know, I think that because black women
have not been respected in ways
that will help them to feel good about themselves.
And they looked to others in particularly men,
in order to get approval,
then, you know, we need to say to black women,
first of all, concentrate on whom you are
and what you think, and what you care about.
And approval does not always have to come from others.
Other people's opinions do not make you.
And the opinion of men do not determine who you are.
And so we want women to have the kind of confidence
that we're talking about today.
That you have Megan.
And so I think it is anything that we can say,
to other black women is that get grounded,
get grounded you have an opinion.
And you, your thinking and
you're taking charge of your life,
rather than have everybody else telling you what you can do
what you should do, what you shouldn't do.
And so building confidence
is the most important lesson that we can share.
- Wonderful.
- So happy to be here.
- That brings me also to my next question
which is, how do you build community with other black women?
You know what I'm seeing right now between the two of you
is like, it's like a
it's like an example of how you build community,
which is showing words of affirmation for another person.
Saying, I see you when I see you.
So I'm just wondering how you build
those sorts of community.
What sort of actions you do to build community
with other black women.
First of all, we have to take people where they are.
And we have to be honest with people about whom we are.
And we have to be honest in ways
that will help people to open up and be honest with you.
And so if we put ourselves high on a pedestal somewhere,
and we're talking about, I'm your role model
and you gotta do this,
you gotta act this way and you got to dress this way
and you should be doing this, et cetera.
First of all, we're not being honest.
And secondly, we have people who address
the issues in different ways.
We have people certainly who have you know,
different thoughts
things that we don't even think about or know about.
And we have people who,
you know, don't accept you know,
what is considered the tradition.
And we have to respect that.
And we have to take people where they are.
And when we approach people,
it is not trying to have them believe
that somehow you are more pure,
you are more knowledgeable, you are more anything.
Accept people where they are,
and they'll accept you where you are.
So when I see someone and I'm talking with them,
I'm looking at them, and I'm listening to them.
I don't care what they have on.
I don't care about anything else,
but what this person is expressing.
And I'm not judging them on anything else
except what they are sharing with me.
And for me, that is a way that you connect with others.
That is the way you build community.
That is where you get trust.
And that is where you come to other people's aid.
When people need you, you come to their aid.
I'm talking about just having the ability
to have someone listen to you.
That's hearing that's hearing what you're saying
or you are sharing a moment.
And so that's how you build community.
You respect people, you take them where they are
and you come to the aid when they need you
- All my life, I was raised by women.
I had my mother, my grandmother, and my great-grandmother
and my aunt.
Growing up,
they always taught me maybe
you can do whatever you wanna do,
be whoever you wanna be.
As long as you're a woman
who knows that at the end of the day
you don't have to depend on anybody else.
Get out here in the world and making yours.
So I never knew that, I never grew up thinking,
oh my gosh, I can't do this.
I'm a gosh, I'm not Megan, and I'm not beautiful.
And I'm not an amazing, like I always grew up thinking
so highly of myself that
when like obstacles came towards me, I'm like
I'm gonna beat this or I'm gonna get over it,
because I'm Megan and I'm awesome.
And then my mom said I was great, so I must be amazing.
So nobody else can tell me any different.
So when I grow up and I started becoming aware of
everybody else, because I was in my own little bubble,
I'm the only child.
But when I started growing up and realizing that
everybody might not have had the same household as me,
I realized that other women may not have been told
all their life that they're so beautiful and that they
are amazing, and you can grow up
and you can be whatever you choose to be.
Don't let anybody put you in this box.
Girl be you.
And when I realized that,
a lot of my friends didn't have that.
Like I really was like, you know what Megan,
maybe God put these women in your life,
so you could be in other women's lives
and you can uplift them the way that
the women that I gave you uplifted you.
So now that I'm in a position, to where I took my mindset,
and I turned my situation into this,
I felt like I have to give back to my community.
Like my women.
Like, I want everybody to feel the way
that I felt growing up.
I am currently still in school.
I remember what it was like to be a freshman on campus.
And I'm like, Oh my God,
my mom said she is not paying my student loans.
What is (indistinct)
Like, I was so confused about everything.
And I just remember that it was a real struggle.
When I got in a position to do that for other women,
I was like I'm definitely doing that.
Because girl, I know what it felt like
to be confused and struggling.
And you didn't want to give up on your dream.
So you just worked super hard to like stay there.
And I really want to be a part of other women's story,
where they're like,
I was going to give up, I couldn't do it.
But guess what Megan Stallion said I could, so I did.
And she really helped me, so it really makes me feel good.
Everything is not gonna come easy,
but I know that if I can make it easy for somebody,
I wanna do that.
- Wow that is so commendable.
To, you know, talk about how you can help other women.
And let me just tell you, when I think about you
and you continue in your education,
I said to myself, you know what?
She doesn't have to go to nobody's school anymore.
She's got it.
She's done it.
She's got it made.
So that is so absolutely commendable
that you continue to focus on education.
When you know, you don't have to.
I mean, you know, people go to school to try to get to
where you are, and here you are, in this place
and you're still, you know, paying attention (mumbles)
So that's a very, very commendable.
- My mother and my great-grandmother passed away, recently.
But my grandmother is still alive,
and she will whoop my butt, even me at 25,
she would whoop my butt if I dropped out of college.
So I'm like, you know what?
I'm not only getting a degree for myself.
I'm getting it for the women in my family
who originally pushed me to go to school anyway.
- That's why I remember if you had, you know, grandmamma
great grandmamma and mama and all of that,
I know what they said, girl, get educated,
because they can't take it out of your head.
They can't take it away from you.
If you get,
that's what they always said, right?
Get educated.
- Get, get,
my great grandmother always said get them papers.
- Well, that's great.
And again, I commend you for continuing to do that.
And now I understand even more why it's important to you.
You're not just doing it for yourself,
you're doing it for them.
And I'm sorry to hear about the losses that you've had.
- Thank you so much for sharing all of that.
Just I wanted to ask,
we've just come off an election.
Where we've seen the incredible organizing power
in black women like Stacey Abrams and Natasha Brown.
And the countless other community organizers,
who work too so hard at this election season.
And the response has been from some people
to assign those black women even more work,
and to talk about our potential to save the world,
which we know we can do, but it's a very heavy burden.
How do we redirect that impulse?
And how do we ensure that
we're being supported and protected,
as much as we are being celebrated or asked to help?
- One of the most important things for each of us to do,
is to examine who we are and to get grounded
in who we are and have our own philosophies about life
and what we care about.
That's very important to know yourself.
Know yourself, know whom you are.
And when you do that and you set out to do things
like Stacey Abrams and other women who have been involved
in voter registration, it's because you want to do it.
It is because this is whom you are.
This is because you believe that you have the power,
and the ability to be helpful and to change things.
Now, how do you do that?
And then not have others expected of you,
expecting of you to do other things
and more and more and more?
Once you get grounded and whom you are,
then you know how much you wanna do,
you know, how much you don't wanna do.
You are not driven, about what others always want you to do.
You're driven by what you feel,
and what you think and what is right.
Because you know who you are.
And you are grounded,
in such a way that your direction is determined by you.
So if Stacy wanted to, you know,
go out and register people 24 hours a day,
and go to all of those counters that she went to, you know
that it never seen an elected official,
that's because she's made some decisions about herself.
And so when somebody else comes along,
and they say now you've done all of that.
Now here's what we want you to do.
She knows how to say, yeah nay, that's not who I am.
This is what I'm doing.
And stay on your own track and do what drives you,
and what makes you feel good, and what feels right for you.
I have no problem saying no.
Because I've learned that if you don't say no,
you will be overwhelmed,
with what everybody else wants you to do,
what they think you should do.
And people call on me sometimes to talk about
subjects I have no idea what they're talking about.
And I have to say, you're talking to the wrong person.
I don't know anything about that.
And so you have to know when to say no.
I know what you mean.
When, when you talk about the compliments that you get,
for what you do, and then people start telling you,
about other things you should be doing and could be doing,
these problems that they ran into,
that need some help on et cetera.
You can't do everything, and you're not good at everything.
And so do what your heart, your mind, your soul tells you
and what you know about what you,
what makes you feel right and good,
and be grounded in all of that.
And it's sometimes you have to say,
no I'm sorry, I can't do that.
So that's how I, that's how I handle the world.
- I love that.
That is a, that that's very
very good advice on how to, how to move through it.
Megan, do you feel like you are able to sort of balance
the demands that people expect you,
the things that people expect you to speak on
that maybe you don't feel like you can't speak on yet,
and the things that you feel passionate about speaking on?
Have you found that balance yet
as you're sort of growing into and knowing yourself?
- I've been very, self-aware all my life,
but as you go through new experiences,
like you become, you know, a new person almost.
I mean, I have the same morals, goals.
Like I'm still Megan, but like I'm going through new things.
So now I'm able to just speak about new things.
When I don't know something,
I'm not gonna like talk deeply about it.
Like, because I need to learn
cause you're never too old to learn,
but I know who I am as a person.
And I know what I'm comfortable speaking about.
I know what I want to speak about,
just like Ms. Water said.
I feel like I'm getting to a point
to where I am becoming very grounded.
So I am comfortable with telling people no,
you can't ask me to do something that I don't wanna do.
Like, and I'm not a person that's easily swayed either.
Like if I'm telling, you no,
like I really just, I genuinely mean that.
So I'm only going to talk to you about
what Megan wants to talk about,
and I'm only gonna do what Megan wants to do.
And there is nobody powerful enough
like walking the earth that's going to make me feel
any differently about it.
- What music do you listen to, when you need encouragement?
Or to psych yourself up,
and to sort of get what you need to get done?
- Well, first of all, I have to tell you, Megan
I am kinda old school now, you know.
Because I still,
I still listen to some of the old songs
that some women in the blues and jazz community,
you know, gave to us.
You know, I'm talking about a Billy Holiday,
or a Sarah Yvonne.
Some of these women, I have all of those recordings
and I still listen to them,
but I want you to know something happened to me
at the height of a gangster rap.
This is what happened.
We had so many people, who didn't understand
this new genre.
And we had so many of, you know, mature people
who wanted to sensor it.
Particularly gangster rap.
And so, I can recall when there was a woman
who was actually the secretary of state,
I think in Pennsylvania.
Who took up the issue of censoring, rap artists.
And I'm a real first amendment person.
Who believed in the right of freedom of speech.
And so I took up the cause with Tupac
and with Dr. J,
and with a number of artists to defend them.
And so I went before the United States Senate.
And at that time I recorded something
that Tupac had done where he talked about his mom.
It was so inspiring when he talked about, you know,
he basically said, you know, she's a dope being
but she's my queen, you know?
And I thought these people got something to say.
And they're saying something that's very important.
And so what I do is I listen to the young people around me,
and they may tell me something,
maybe you ought to pay attention to.
And I might listen to something.
Like when they told me I ought to listen to
(man mumbles)
no, no, no.
I knew about Savage, because I did pay attention
to that kind of on my own.
I paid attention to that, because it was a remix.
And I liked the idea of getting together with Beyonce.
You know what I mean?
I thought that was, that was really
really important for a lot of reasons.
One was, you know, Beyonce had been around a bit longer,
and had achieved a certain level of success.
But she was not thinking of herself
in such a way that she knew more,
that she had achieved so much.
She came looking for you, and she did this remix.
And I thought, well, that's what women do.
That's what black women do.
(Waters mumbles)
You know what I mean?
So I kinda paid attention to that.
But then they told me to look at,
was it what?
And I did.
Don't worry, don't worry, don't worry,
don't worry, don't worry.
(mumbling)
And here's what I said,
here's what I said.
Now that's audacity.
That is audacity.
And that is,
the ability for women to take charge
of what they wanna say.
Because I, as I said,
I had paid attention to the young, you know,
gangster rap a time when, you know, men were in charge.
They say whatever they wanted to say,
they say whatever they want to say about women,
what have you.
But women, you know, didn't say for a long time,
what they could say, or wanted to say, or dared to say.
And so I thought that's audacity.
So I'm with you, I'm fine.
I have no problem with that.
The genre as it evolves,
from the time that, you know,
I've seen all kinds of transitions take place.
With some of the younger artists,
until I'm seeing today that,
you young women, have taken control of your art.
And you're, you're, you're defining it in ways
that never would be defined by anybody else.
And you are willing to have the courage and the nerves
and their audacity to say whatever the hell you think.
When hardcore rap was not accepted,
even by black people and the ministers in the church.
And, you know, like this, woman who was an elected official.
Who drew some other people in, you know,
and I won't name the names,
but they drew in some very famous singers.
Who joined with them, the pure creativity,
and the talent of rap took over.
And, you know, and it took over not because
the white media or anybody else helped with that.
It took over because it was so accepted by so many.
And so loved by so many.
And that's how it keeps evolving.
It keeps evolving in ways that now you have Megan,
who is up for four Grammy awards.
But doing it her way.
- Oh my God.
I love it here.
- This is really beautiful, really special.
Thank you for that.
And thank you for putting all of this into context for us,
representative waters.
I mean, I think you just really made it clear, you know
the legacy that Megan's working within.
That we all know she's working within.
That was just really wonderful, thank you for that,
sort of whole reset of understanding the moment
that we're in right now.
My last question to the both of you is
how do you respond when someone tells you to stay quiet,
or to not speak up?
- Reclaim and my time.
Well, I just say that because that turned out
to be so much fun.
And I got adopted by the millennials based on
confronting the treasury secretary,
who was trying to talk over me and talk around me.
But unfortunately or fortunately, I come from a huge family.
I had 12 brothers and sisters, and you know
a father who left early, a stepfather,
a mother who struggled.
And so my mother was very outspoken,
and she was a very strong woman.
And she always taught us to, you know,
don't talk about what you don't have,
make do with what you have.
And all of those lessons that were, you know,
very important to me that I learned.
And so she was outspoken and I'm sure a lot of what I do,
you know, emanated from her.
But the other thing is, when you're
in a house with 13 kids, you better be outspoken.
If you wanna get hurt, if you wanna get recognized,
if you wanna make sure that, you know,
all the dinner's not gone, when you come in
from, you know, your practice at your high school
or something, you have to learn to speak up.
And so I've been controversial because of that.
Because I dare to speak up.
And as you know, I started asking for the,
impeachment of the president
from the time he was inaugurated,
up until today on the second impeachment.
I saw him for what he was, as a dangerous human being.
And so I received a lot of criticism for that,
but, you know, I love constructive criticism,
but outplace criticism doesn't bother me.
I am outspoken.
And that's who I am.
- Same, like I said, my mother and my aunt,
my great-grandmother all the women in my life
were very strong, very outspoken.
And they just taught me to be there where they
taught me to be confident in what I had.
We weren't rich, but that she was teaching me
how to make do with my situation,
where whatever I had, like I said
they never taught me to be shy.
They never taught me to not voice my opinion.
And they taught me, you know, of course,
your black mother gonna tell you speak when you spoken to.
You know what I'm saying?
But like when I, anything that they taught to me,
I took into the outside world.
I brought into my real life.
Nobody can make me not speak when I know that
it's something that I really believe in.
Nobody can make me change my mind
when it's something that I just really feel
in my heart in my gut is right.
So if somebody is trying to silence me,
like I always try to figure out
well why are you trying to silence my will.
Well what, what, what are you hiding?
Like, what is it, why, why should I not be able to speak
about the things that I feel strongly about?
And when I got the platform, to speak openly
and I actually had people who was listening,
I was like oh yeah, this is what,
I knew I was supposed to do.
Like, aside from me just being a rapper,
and me being, you know, the competent woman
owning my body, that I am, I still am a daughter.
I still I'm a granddaughter.
I still am a student.
I still am a best friend.
So I know that I still need to be,
that same Megan.
And I wanna give that to as many people as I can.
I want to show girls, you can chase your dream.
that may seem very farfetched,
and you still get your education.
I just wanna show, you know
other people in general, like you, you can beat the odds.
I came from the South side of Houston.
I would've never thought that I will be
in a place that I am now.
But I knew this is where I wanted to be.
And I didn't let anybody silence me.
And I didn't let anybody kill my dream.
No matter how many nos I heard, I was like
who can I turn this into a hail yeah?
So I just always stayed true to who I was.
And that's always why I have to remind myself
when it seems like it's getting hard,
or when it seems like it's a lot of people
just maybe dog piling on me, just,
you can get through this
because you have been through worse.
So stay true to yourself.
And that's why nobody can ever really stop.
- Wow, that's great.
That's so great.
And my husband is from Houston.
It's a large family, you know, all around Houston.
And he came from fifth ward.
And, - Okay.
(Megan and Waters laugh)
(indistinct)
- And so, you know, he came from the hood,
came from the neighborhood.
And of course I know at some of the,
I remember when rap really got prominent
coming out of the South and coming out of Houston
and I know Scarface and all those people.
- Yes. - And,
and so, you know, I appreciate that Houston
produces so much talent.
You know, so much talent has come out of Houston.
And so you're a role model whether you wanna be or not,
and you're to be commended,
for sharing and forgiven and for helping others.
And, you know, I'm looking forward to, you know
your been successful with the Grammys
just to be nominated is extraordinarily important.
I mean, that's big time.
And so you have reached, you know,
a certain level of success
that you should be very very proud of
and the world is yours, and there is no end to it.
There's no stopping.
You have proven that you can get what you want,
and you can go where you need to be.
So thank you so much, loved talking with you enjoy
today.
- Thank you so much for talking to me.
This has really made my year.
Like I feel so accomplished.
I feel amazing. You gave me some words of encouragement
and now I have to go reassure my hotties.
Ms. Maxine said,
(all laughing)
that we are so (indistinct)
So just thank you so much
for even taking the time out to do this.
I really appreciate it
- But thank you.
It's been joyful I've loved being with you today.
Thank you.
(upbeat music)