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♪♪♪ >> Stephen: WELCOME BACK,
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EVERYBODY.
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MY NEXT GUEST IS AN AUTHOR, JOURNALIST, AND OPINION
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COLUMNIST AT THE "NEW YORK TIMES."
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PLEASE WELCOME CHARLES BLOW!
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CHARLES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
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>> I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE.
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>> Stephen: NOW, AN OPINION COLUMNIST SOUNDS -- HEY, IT'S A
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GREAT OUTLET BUT IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE A CHALLENGE.
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THERE MUST BE TIMES WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE AN OPINION, WHERE
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YOU'RE, LIKE, AH, I GOT NOTHING.
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WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?
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>> I COULD WRITE THAT.
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I COULD ACTUALLY SAY, I HAVE NOTHING, AND MAKE A COLUMN OUT
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OF IT.
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I THINK I'VE DONE THAT ONCE OR TWICE.
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>> Stephen: WELL, YOU HAVE A LOT RIGHT NOW.
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YOU HAVE NO SHORTAGE OF OPINIONS RIGHT NOW, AND A LOT OF THEM ARE
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IN THE NEW BOOK, "THE DEVIL YOU KNOW."
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I'LL PUT IT RIGHT THERE SO WE GET THE BIG SHOT OF IT RIGHT
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OVER THERE.
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AND IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC CALL TO ACTION.
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EXPLAIN TO THE PEOPLE WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING HERE.
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>> I'M SUGGESTING THAT PEOPLE REVERSE THE GREAT MIGRATION.
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THE GREAT MIGRATION WAS THE OUTFLOW OF BLACK PEOPLE FROM THE
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RURAL SOUTH TO THE BIG CITIES OF THE NORTH AND WEST.
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NEARLY HALF OF ALL BLACK PEOPLE LEFT THE SOUTH DURING THE GREAT
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MIGRATION.
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>> Stephen: THEY LEFT FOR OPPORTUNITY AND TO ESCAPE JIM
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CROW OF THE SOUTH.
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>> A PUSH AND PULL.
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P PULL ALWAYS MORE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.
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A LOT OF YOUNG WHITE MEN HAD GONE TO FIGHT IN WORLD WAR I AND
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WORLD WAR II IN THE SECOND WAVE, AND FOR THE ABILITY TO BE PART
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OF THEIR CIVIC ENVIRONMENT.
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THE PUSH WAS THAT, IN THE BEGINNING, THE COTTON CROP
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FAILED BECAUSE OF THE BOWL WEEVIL INFESTATION, BUT, MORE
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IMPORTANTLY, THERE WAS WHITE TERROR.
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THEY WERE BEING TERRORIZED OUT OF THE PLACE THEY HAD BEEN.
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>> Stephen: WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSED FLIP OF THE PUSH AND
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THE PULL?
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IS IT A NEW SOUTH IN OBVIOUSLY, MUCH HAS CHANGED IN THE SOUTH
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SINCE THE START OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA.
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GEORGIA JUST HAD ITS FIRST BLACK SENATOR, BASICALLY THE REPUBLIC
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WAS JUST SAVED BY BLACK VOTERS, ESPECIALLY JIM CLYBURN IN
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SOUTH CAROLINA JOE BIDEN IS THE GUY.
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WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE NEW SOUTH WOULD BE MOST BENEFICIAL
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TO BL BLACK AMERICANS?
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>> IT'S ABOUT THE SAME.
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HALF OF THE LIST IS IN THE SOUTH, WHERE BLACK AMERICA IS
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THRIVING.
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THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTE LOOKS AT WHERE MIDDLE INCOME IS
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INCREASING, MUCH IS IN THE SOUTH.
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YOU LOOK WHERE BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES ARE THRIVING, THE
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NUMBER ONE IN THE COUNTRY IS IN THE SOUTHEAST.
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THAT'S PART OF THE PULL.
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THE PUSH, JUST LIKE THE CRASH TO HAVE THE COTTON INDUSTRY, THE
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PANDEMIC MAY WELL BE PART OF THE PUSH BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN THE
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SECOND QUARTER OF LAST YEAR WHEN WE BASICALLY SHUT DOWN THE
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ECONOMY OF AMERICA, THE PLACES HIT HARDEST, MANY OF THEM WERE
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THOSE PLACES IN THE NORTH AND WEST WHERE BLACK PEOPLE HAVE
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MIGRATED TO.
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THE BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN CHICAGO IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF
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LAST YEAR WAS THREE TIMES THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE OF BLACK
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PEOPLE IN ATLANTA.
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>> Stephen: YOU LIVE IN ATLANTA NOW.
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>> YES, I DO.
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>> Stephen: IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE SOUTH IS CHANGING, HOW
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THERE'S DYNAMIC NEW ECONOMIES IN THE SOUTH.
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WHERE ELSE IN THE SOUTH IS IT CHANGING?
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WHERE ARE THE BEING DRAWS RIGHT NOW?
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>> WELL ONE THING IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IS THE FIRST TIME
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ATLANTA GOT A BLACK MAYOR WAS 1973, AND THAT WAS THE FIRST
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CITY IN ALL OF THE SOUTH TO HAVE A BLACK MAYOR, AND THEY DID IT
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BECAUSE, IN 1970 WAS THE FIRST YEAR ATLANTA BECAME A MAJORITY
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BLACK CITY.
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NOW THERE ARE 1200 MAJORITY BLACK CITIES IN AMERICA, 90% OF
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THEM ARE IN THE SOUTH.
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ALMOST EVERY MAJOR CITY IN THE SOUTH NOW HAS A BLACK MAYOR, AND
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THESE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE, DYNAMIC PEOPLE.
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THE WHOLE CULTURE OF POLITICS IN THE SOUTH IS CHANGING.
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THE NEXT STEP IS TO TAKE THAT FROM A MUNICIPAL LEVEL TO A
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STATE LEVEL, AND THAT IS WHAT GEORGIA PROMISES US BECAUSE THIS
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IS A STATEWIDE ELECTION ON THE PRESIDENTIAL LEVEL AND THE
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SENATE LEVEL AND, IN BOTH THOSE CASES, BLACK PEOPLE WERE THE
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MAJORITY OF THE COALITION THAT WOULD FLIP THE STATE FOR JOE
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BIDEN, AND BLACK PEOPLE WERE THE MAJORITY OF THE COALITION THAT
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SENT THOSE TWO SENATORS TO CONGRESS, AND IT WAS THE FIRST
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TIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY THAT BLACK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN A
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MAJORITY OF A COALITION TO SEND SENATORS TO CONGRESS.
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>> Stephen: WHAT DOES THE RESEARCH SUGGEST THE POLITICS IN
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AMERICA TO BE LIKE IN THE GREAT MIGRATION HADN'T HAPPENED, IF WE
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STILL -- IF ALL THOSE BLACK PEOPLE HAD STAYED THERE
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THROUGHOUT THE 20th CENTURY?
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>> SO IF THEY HAD STAYED, AND IF YOU HAD STILL GOTTEN THE CIVIL
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RIGHTS ACT AND THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, THEY COULD CONTROL UP TO 14
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AMERICAN SENATORS.
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THEY COULD CONTROL MORE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES THAN
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CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK STATE COMBINED.
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YOU WOULD NOT HAVE HAD -- IF THEY VOTE ALL OF THAT THE SAME
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WAY THEY VOTE TODAY, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE HAD A REPUBLICAN
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PRESIDENT IN THE LAST 50 YEARS.
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THE ENTIRE SUPREME COURT WOULD LOOK DIFFERENT.
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HILLARY CLINTON WOULD HAVE WON IN 2016, EVEN IF SHE HAD LOST
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EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE MIDWESTERN STATES.
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>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK, BUT WHEN WE RETURN
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I WILL ASK CHARLES WHAT IT WAS THE LIKE TO TAKE HIS OWN ADVICE
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AND MOVE BACK SOUTH.