>> Stephen: HEY, WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY.

MY GUESTS TONIGHT ARE THE CO-HOSTS OF SHOWTIME'S "THE

CIRCUS."

PLEASE WELCOME, JOHN HEILEMANN, MARK McKINNON, AND ALEX WAGNER.

HI YOU THREE, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU, WE'RE KICKING IT, KICKING IT HARD.

>> Stephen: YOU GUYS, THE LAST TIME WE TALKED TOGETHER WAS

ELECTION NIGHT, AT THE END OF WHICH, WE REALLY DID NOT KNOW

EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON.

NOW WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON.

AND IT'S EXTRAORDINARILY HARROWING.

I KNOW YOU GUYS WERE-- ALL THREE OF YOU WERE IN D.C. THIS WEEK.

WHAT IS IT LIKE TO BE THERE WITH 15,000 NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS ON

THE STREETS?

>> I MEAN, I'LL TELL YOU, AS SOMEONE WHO GREW UP IN

WASHINGTON, D.C., I HAVE NEVER, EVER SEEN THE TOWN LIKE THAT.

I HAVE TRAVELED TO PLACES, YOU KNOW, ON THE CHAD SUDAN BORDER

AND THE THAI-BURMA BORDER TO PLACES WITH VERY UNSTABLE

GOVERNMENTS AND IT TURNS OUT OURS IS JUST THE SAME.

I MEAN, IT REALLY FEELS LIKE THE STABILITY THAT WE HAVE ONCE

KNOWN AS A COUNTRY IN TERMS OF OUR GOVERNMENT IS GONE.

I-- I DO REALLY THINK THAT, LIKE A LOT OF THE SECURITY MEASURES

YOU SEE NOW, SOME OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE PERMANENT.

I REMEMBER WALKING DOWN PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE, DRIVING

DOWN PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE IN FRONT OF THE WHITE HOUSE WHEN I

WAS GROWING UP, THAT IS NO LONGER HAPPENING.

AND IN THE SAME WAY I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THE CAPITOL IS

GOING CHANGE A LOT IN TERMS OF ACCESSIBILITY AND WHAT WE EXPECT

IN TERMS OF PRECAUTIONS AND DANGER IN AND AROUND THE

NATION'S CAPITOL.

>> THAT'S A GREAT POINT, ALEX.

IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS-- I DIDN'T GROW UP THERE,

BUT SINCE I'VE BEEN THERE, THE THING YOU LOVE ABOUT IT IS IT'S

SO ACCESSIBLE.

YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE.

YOU CAN GO RIGHT UP BY THE WHITE HOUSE.

YOU CAN GO RIGHT UP TO THE CAPITOL.

YOU COULDN'T EVEN GET TO THE LINCOLN MONUMENT YESTERDAY.

>> Stephen: THE CLOSEST THING TO COMPARE THIS TO IN TERMS OF A

SHOW OF MILITARY FORCE IS AFTER 9/11.

HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE TO WHAT WASHINGTON FELT LIKE AFTER 9/11?

>> WELL, BY THEN, I HAD FLED TO NEW YORK CITY.

BUT I STILL HAVE FAMILY LIVING IN THE DISTRICT.

AND THERE'S-- YOU KNOW, I DON'T MEAN TO BE HEAVY HANDED ABOUT

IT, BUT THERE'S A REAL SENSE OF A LOSS OF INNOCENCE.

YOU KNOW, YOU THINK BACK TO THOSE DAYS, AND WE TOOK FOR

GRANTED, I THINK, OUR SENSE OF SAFETY AND OUR SENSE OF, YOU

KNOW, OUR PLACE IN THE WORLD AND OUR LEADERSHIP IN THE WORLD AND

OUR INVINCIBILITY AS AMERICANS.

AND I ABSOLUTELY THINK THE SAME THING HAS HAPPENED NOW.

IT'S REALLY AN A, B, C, D, MOMENT FOR THE COUNTRY IN TERMS

OF WHAT WE CAN EXPECT FROM AMERICAN GOVERNANCE.

>> I WOULD SAY EVEN IF YOU COMPARE TO BOTH WASHINGTON AND

NEW YORK IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF 9/11, YOU KNOW, NEW

YORK WAS RELATIVELY BACK TO NORMAL WITHIN A MONTH OF 9/11.

I MEAN, I REMEMBER, LIKE-- BY THE TIME-- A MONTH AFTER 9/11,

LIKE, U2 CAME TO TOWN AND PLAYED THE FIRST BIG GIG AT MADISON

SQUARE GARDEN.

YOU MIGHT REMEMBER THAT.

IT WAS A BIG DEAL.

IT NEVER FELT LIKE THE CITY WAS LOCKED DOWN.

IF YOU WERE MIDTOWN, UPPER WEST SIDE, EAST SIDE, YOU DIDN'T FEEL

A HEAVY MILITARY PRESENCE, AND THAT WAS TRUE IN WASHINGTON,

TOO.

THERE WERE CHANGES AFTER 9/11, BUT YOU NEVER FELT LIKE THE

GREEN ZONE WHICH IS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE IN WASHINGTON RIGHT

NOW.

LITERALLY, THE THINGS THAT GOT ANNOUNCED TODAY, THE SECURING OF

THE PERIMETER AND HOW WIDE IT IS GOING TO BE AND THE

MILITARIZATION OF IT.

IT LITERALLY IS A GREEN ZONE PEOPLE ARE NOTING THAT IN THE

COVERAGE, THIS REALLY IS LIKE A ROCK.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN PEOPLE IN THE DISTRICT AS ON EDGE ABOUT WHAT

MIGHT HAPPEN OVER THE COMING DAYS BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT

WEDNESDAY.

I'VE NEVER SEEN PEOPLE MORE ON EDGE, AND THAT INCLUDES AFTER

9/11.

>> WELL, THE BIG DIFFERENCE, TOO, IS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS

CHILLING AT THAT TIME, BUT WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT PEOPLE OVER

THERE DOING SOMETHING TO US.

NOW WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT PEOPLE RIGHT HERE DOING SOMETHING TO

US.

US.

>> Stephen: MARK, I KNOW YOU ATTENDED THE PRESIDENT'S RALLY

AT THE ECLIPSE BEFORE THEY MARCHED OVER.

THAT WAS THE-- WHAT WAS THE FEELING NACROWD?

YOU KNOW, TELL ME WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE THERE WHILE THE

SPEECHES WERE BEING MADE?

>> WELL, IT WAS INCREDIBLE, STEPHEN.

I MEAN, IT FELT LIKE BEING IN A SEA OF HUMAN NITROGLYCERIN.

I HAVE BEEN AT A LOT OF TRUMP RALLIES.

THIS WAS DIFFERENT.

PEOPLE WERE NOT ONLY ANIMATED.

THEY WERE ANGRY AND ON EDGE.

ALL IT TOOK WAS SOMEBODY TO SHAKE AND COMBUST THIS THING AND

THE PRESIDENT CAME OUT AND DID EXACTLY THAT.

I WOULD HAVE BEEN SURPRISED IF PEOPLE HADN'T GONE AND DONE

SOMETHING VIOLENT AND BREAK THE LAW OR CREATE THE KIND OF

CATASTROPHE AND TRAGEDY THAT WE SAW.

YOU KNOW, THE FACT IS YOU THINK ABOUT HOW DIABOLICAL THIS WHOLE

THING WAS, AND HOW UNSURPRISING THE OUTCOME WAS.

YOU SAID BEFORE THE ELECTION, YOU SAID, IF I WIN, GREAT, IF I

DON'T, IT WAS STOLEN.

THAT WAS THE MESSAGE HE SOWED TO ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO SHOWED UP

AT THE CAPITOL AND HE SAID VERY CLEARLY, LET'S GO TO THE

CAPITOL.

AND IF YOU WANT YOUR COUNTRY BACK, DON'T SHOW WEAKNESS."

WHAT THE HELL DID YOU EXPECT?

I WAS NOT SURPRISED.

I WAS SHOCKED AT WHAT THEY DID.

BUT I COULDN'T COMMUNICATE WITH ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES BECAUSE IT

WAS LIKE BEING AT A HUGE CONCERT, SO WE COULDN'T GET ANY

CELL PHONE COVERAGE OUT.

AND I WAS WORRIED AS EVERYBODY WENT TO THE CAPITOL.

I WAS WORRIED ABOUT WHERE MY COLLEAGUES WERE.

AND I DISCOVERED HEILEMANN WAS PRETTY CLOSE TO IT.

>> Stephen: WE HAVE A CLIP HERE, JOHN.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE SURE WHAT WE'RE ABOUT TO RUN.

YOU CAN SET THIS UP?

>> YEAH, I HAD BEEN-- I HAD BEEN AT A COMFORTABLE DISTANCE

THINKING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE KNEW THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE THE

JOINT SESSION OF CONGRESS, WHICH WAS GOING TO BE KIND OF A

FARCICAL ATTEMPT AT A COUP.

WE KNEW THERE WERE GOING TO BE THESE OBJECTIONS TO THE

ELECTORAL COLLEGE CERTIFICATION, TED CRUZ, JOSH HAWLEY, THERE

WOULD BE THESE DEBATES, THERE WOULD BE THESE VOTES, THEY WOULD

GET VOTE DOWN.

AND I WAS OVER IN GEORGETOWN WATCHING ON TELEVISION EXPECTING

TO COVER IT THAT WAY.

AND THEN WHEN THE RIOTS STARTED, I GOT IN A CAR PRETTY FAST WITH

MY CREW AND DROVE UP TO THE-- THAT SIDE OF THE CAPITOL WHERE

THE SUPREME COURT IS AND GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND THEN WENT

STRAIGHT IN.

>> Stephen: JIM, LET'S ROLL THIS CLIP.

♪ ♪ >> THIS IS A SAD, PATHETIC

AFTERMATH OF THIS UTTER ( BLEEP ) SHOW.

>> FOUR MORE YEARS!

>> FOUR MORE YEARS!

( EXPLOSION ).

>> Stephen: JOHN, WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO BE IN THAT CROWD?

>> DISCONCERTING.

AND, I MEAN, WE HAD GONE AROUND THE SIDE OF THE CAPITOL AT THAT

POINT TO WHERE THE BIGGEST CROWD ON THE OUTSIDE WAS STILL

GATHERED.

AND AS MARK SAID, THE HEIGHT OF THE RIOT HAD ENDED AT THAT

POINT, BUT THE CAPITOL WAS NOT SECURE AT THAT POINT SO A LOT OF

RIOT POLICE WERE JUST ARRIVING.

AS EVERYBODY KNOWS, THE NATIONAL GUARD WERE VERY LATE TO THE

SCENE, AND A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE LOITERING AROUND.

SOE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN INSIDE WERE ON THE OUTSIDE, AND

SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THE OUTSIDE WERE STILL TRYING TO GET

IN.

IN THAT CROWD, ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT, WE ALL KNOW HAVING

COVERED VARIOUS TRUMP RALLIES OVER THE YEARS, THERE IS NOT

JUST A LOT OF HOSTILITY TOWARDS THE MEDIA, THEY'RE VERY TUNED IN

TO SEEING PEOPLE WITH CAMERAS.

THERE'S A LOT OF IMMEDIATE LIKE, "WHO ARE YOU WITH?

ARE YOU FAKE NEWS?

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?" IF I'M TRYING TO DO WHAT I DO

AND DO A RUNNING COMMENTARY GOING THROUGH THE CROWD AND

MAKING OBSERVATIONS I'M ALSO CONSTANTLY LOOKING AROUND TO

MAKE SURE WHEN PEOPLE ARE LEANING IN TO LISTEN TO WHAT I'M

SAYING THAT I'M NOT SAYING SOMETHING THAT WILL LEAD DOWN A

BAD PATH.

I WAS TRYING TO DO THE JOURNALISTIC THING AND REPORT ON

IT IS BUT TRY TO MAKE SURE MY CREW AND I DIDN'T GET INTO A

MELEE, AND THE TIGHTER THE CROWD IS, THE MORE YOU REALIZED IF

THEY TURN ON YOU THERE MIGHT NOT BE A WAY OUT.

WE WERE VERY ATTUNED TO ALL OF THAT.

THAT SHOT OR FLASHBANG WENT OFF-- I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT IT

WAS.

IT DIDN'T SOUND IN THE END LIKE A GUNSHOT.

I THINK IT WAS A FLASHBANG THROWN BY RIOT POLICE BUT AT THE

MOMENT YOU DON'T KNOW AND AS YOU CAN SEE, I SHUDDERED THERE AND

GOT OUT AS QUICK AS I COULD.

AS YOU COULD SEE ON MY FACE AS I WALKED UP, THERE'S SO MUCH TO

SAY ABOUT WHAT WE'VE BEEN EXPERIENCING THE LAST WEEK OR SO

AND THE STORY GETS WORSE AND WORSE BY THE DAY, BY THE HOUR,

THE MORE WE KNOW ABOUT THIS, ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF

COLLABORATION, REPUBLICANS WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN-- THE

CONVENTIONAL WISDOM AMONG A LOT OF DEMOCRATS AND SOME

REPUBLICANS THAT THIS WAS AN INSIDE JOB.

JUST THE EXTENT OF THE VIOLENCE, THE DEGREE-- THE REPORTING NOW

WE KNOW THE RIOTERS WERE THERE TO KIDNAP, KILL, ASSASSINATE

POLITICAL LEADERS.

EVEN IN THE MOMENT BEFORE I KNEW ANY OF THAT, IT WAS

HEARTBREAKING TO SEE THIS HAPPEN TO THE CAPITOL, A PLACE I HAVE

BEEN, YOU KNOW, VISITING AND COVERING SINCE 1980-- I WONDER

ON CPITOL HILL WHEN I FIRST GOT OUT OF COLLEGE, 1987.

TO SEE THAT SPECTACLE THERE, I WAS ON THE-- THE BRIG TEARS FOR

MOST OF THE SESSION AS WE WALKED AROUND, AND IN A LOT OF WAYS I

FEEL LIKE THAT RIGHT NOW.

>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A BREAK.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH MORE MARK McKINNON, ALEX WAGNER,

AND JOHN HEILEMANN FROM "THE CIRCUS."