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  • >> James: OUR NEXT GUEST IS A CELEBRATED

  • HISTORIAN, PHILOSOPHER AND BEST SELLING AUTHOR WHOSE BOOKS HAVE

  • SOLD NEARLY 30 MILLION COPIES WORLDWIDE, HIS NEWEST BOOK

  • SAPIENS, A GRAPHIC HISTORY IS BRILLIANT AND OUT RIGHT NOW,

  • PLEASE WELCOME ONE OF THE BRIGHTEST MINDS AN PLANET EARTH,

  • THE INCREDIBLE YEW VAL NOAH HARARI-- YUVAL NOAH HARARI.

  • THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK ON THE SHOW, WE ARE SO HAPPY.

  • >> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME AGAIN.

  • >> James: WE WOULD HAVE YOU ON EERY WEEK, JUST FOR ME

  • PERSONALLY FOR MY OWN SENSE OF SELF BECAUSE WE BOTH, I THINK IT

  • WAS NEARLY SEVEN MONTHS AGO, ABOUT A MONTH INTO THE PANDEMIC.

  • >> YES.

  • >> James: HOW ARE YOU DOING?

  • WHAT IS THE CURRENT SITUATION IN ISRAEL RIGHT NOW.

  • >> WELL, I'M DOING FINE, MY HUSBAND IS OKAY, MY FAMILY IS

  • OKAY.

  • BUT MY COUNTRY ISN'T OKAY.

  • THE SITUATION BOTH MEDICALLY AND POLITICALLY IS GOING REALLY FROM

  • BAD TO WORSE.

  • >> WELL YEAH, I MEAN THAT FEELS TRUE OF WHEN I SPEAK TO MY

  • PARENTS IN BRITAIN, IT FEELS TRUE OF WHEN I TURN ON THE NEWS

  • HERE IN AMERICA.

  • I MEAN WE'VE JUST GONE THROUGH A VERY DIFFICULT ICIVE

  • PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION-- DIVISIVE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION HERE.

  • FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON HOW THIS ELECTION

  • HAS PLAYED OUT.

  • >> WELL, ON THE ONE HAND THE GOOD NEWS ASK THAT AS FAR AS CAN

  • I TELL IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST PEACEFUL, IN TERMS OF THE

  • ABSENCE OF PHYSICAL VIOLENCE.

  • >> James: YEAH.

  • >> WHICH IS A VERY GOOD SIGN.

  • ON THE OTHER HAND, YEAH, THE LEVEL OF NOT JUST HATRED BETWEEN

  • AMERICAN CITIZENS IS REALLY ALARMING.

  • YOU KNOW, IN PREVIOUS, I DON'T KNOW, 50 YEARS AGO, AMERICANS OF

  • ALL POLITICAL SIDES WERE AFRAID OF FOREIGNERS, THE RUSSIANS ARE

  • COMING, TO DESTROY OUR WAY OF LIFE.

  • NOW AMERICANS ARE AFRAID OF THOSE FELLOW FENS MUCH MORE THAN

  • NIBBLES ON THE PLANET.

  • THE DEMOCRATS ARE AFRAID THAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE COMING TO

  • DESTROY THEIR WAY OF LIFE AND THE REPUBLICANS HAVE THE SAME

  • FEAR ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS.

  • AND IN THE LONG RUN YOU CAN'T HAVE A DEMOCRACY IN SUCH A

  • SITUATION.

  • >>.

  • IT IS NOT JUST THE U.S. ALL OVER THE WORLD WE ARE SEEING THE

  • COLLAPSE OF NATIONAL SOLIDARITY.

  • I KNOW THAT MANY PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE RESURGENCE OF

  • NATIONALISM.

  • BUT ACTUALLY ALMOST EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK YOU SEE THAT NATIONAL

  • CIVIL IS COLLAPSING-- NATIONALISM IS IN

  • COULD LAFNSING, IN CRISIS T IS NOT ABOUT HATING FOREIGNERS,

  • THAT IS FINE, THERE IS NO PROBLEM THERE.

  • NATIONALISM IS REALLY LOVING YOUR EXAIT YOTS AND THERE IS

  • LESS AND LESS SUCH LOVE ON MUCH OF THE PLANET.

  • AND YOU SEE POLITICIANS WITH WHO CLAIM TO BE NATIONALISTS AND

  • PATRIOTS AND THEY ARE ACTUALLY DELIBERATELY UNDERMINING THE

  • SOLIDARITY WITHIN THEIR OWN NATION.

  • THEY ARE BEHAVING AS ANTINATIONALIST LEADERS AND THAT

  • IS A VERY BIG DANGER, ESPECIALLY FOR DEMOCRACY BECAUSE I DON'T

  • THINK THAT YOU CAN HAVE A FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY WITHOUT A

  • STRONG SENSE OF NATIONAL SOLIDARITY.

  • >> James: I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE AND I HAVE NEVER

  • REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT IN THAT WAY, REALLY.

  • I THINK SO MUCH IS DOWN TO MISINFORMATION AND THE WAY THAT

  • WE RECEIVE INFORMATION NOW AND ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE BEEN

  • KNOCK SHOCKED BY THIS PAST 12 MONTH OR SEVEN, AIDE MONTHS IS

  • HOW EASILY PEOPLE BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

  • LIKE WHY DO YOU THINK WE AS PEOPLE ARE SO VULNERABLE TO

  • MISINFORMATION.

  • >> YOU KNOW, THE TRUTH IS PAINFUL OFTEN AND COMPLICATED.

  • IF YOU LOOK AT THE EPIDEMIC, FOR EXAMPLE, TO JUST UNDERSTAND WHAT

  • A VIRUS IS IT'S SUCH A COMPLICATED THING, A VIRUS IS

  • NOT EVEN A LIVING BEING STRK NOT AN ANIMAL, IT DOESN'T EAT T

  • DOESN'T RECRUIT-- BY ITSELF T IS REALLY JUST A PIECE OF

  • BIOLOGICAL CODE, GENETIC CODE THAT HAS THE AMAZING ABILITY TO

  • INFILTRATE OUR BODY, HIJACK THE MECHANISM OF THE CELLS IN OUR

  • BODY AND TELL THE CELLS TO PRODUCE MORE COPIES OF ME, AND

  • THAT IS HOW IT GOES VIRAL.

  • MORE AND MORE COPIES OF THE CODE GOING INTO THE NEARBY CELLS AND

  • PEOPLE AND YOU HAVE AN EPIDEMIC.

  • THIS IS SUCH A STRANGE THING.

  • A COMPLICATED THING TO UNDERSTAND.

  • ST IT IS MUCH EASIER TO BELIEVE THAT YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOME

  • GROUP OF BILLIONAIRES WITH WHO CREATED THIS THIRNG IN SOME

  • LABORATORY IN ORDER TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

  • AND WHAT MAKES IT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT IS IT VERY OFTEN

  • SCIENTISTS DON'T MAKE THE EFFORT OR DON'T SEEK IN THE LANGUAGE

  • THAT MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND.

  • YOU DON'T NEED, YOU SHOULDN'T NEED A COLLEGE DEGREE IN BUY

  • ONLY-- BIOLOGY OR ECONOMICS OR HISTORY OR ANYTHING TO

  • UNDERSTAND BASIC THINGS LIKE WHAT VIRUSES ARE OR HOW

  • PANDEMICS SPREAD.

  • BUT SCIENTISTS SHOULD MAKE THE EFFORT TO THINK, TO THE GENERAL

  • PUBLIC IN AN ACCESSIBLE WAY, YOU KNOW, AMONG THEMSELVES

  • SCIENTISTS OFTEN SEEK IN NUMBERS AND STATISTICS AND MODELS AND

  • THIS ISN'T WORK, PEOPLE THINK IN SOCIAL, WE ARE SOCIAL ANIMALS SO

  • YOU NEED TO MAKE THE EFFORT TO EXPLAIN SCIENCE IN A MORE

  • ACCESSIBLE WAY.

  • >> WELL, SPEAKING OF STORIES, LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR BRILLIANT

  • NEW BOOK SAPIENS, A GRAPHIC HISTORY, THIS IS A GRAPHIC NOVEL

  • OF ONE OF YOUR MOST POPULAR AND ONE OF MY FAVORITE BOOKS

  • SAPIENS, WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO DO THIS TO TURN IT INTO A

  • GRAPHIC NOVEL, BECAUSE IT IS A REALLY INTERESTING WAY OF

  • PRESENTING THE BOOK.

  • >> IT CONNECTS TO WHAT WE SAW EARLIER, TO BRING BRING SCIENCE

  • TO THE PEOPLE, TO MORE PEOPLE, NOT JUST TO A SMALL EDUCATED

  • ELITE THAT READS SCIENCE BOOKS BUT TO REACH EVERYBODY AND FOR

  • THAT YOU YOU, WE EXPERIMENTED IT IS NOT JUST ME.

  • I TEAMED UP WITH TWO VERY GIFTED ARTISTS, IT IS A GRAPHIC NOVEL.

  • SO I HAD TO TEAM UP WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND WE, IT WAS THE MOST

  • FUN PROJECT I EVER WORKED ON.

  • IT WAS JUST ONE SPEMPLET AFTER THE OTHER OF LET'S BREAK ALL THE

  • CONVENTIONS OF TELLING SCIENCE AND TRY NEW THINGS.

  • SO WE HAVE ONE DOCTOR WHICH IS LIKE A DETECTIVE STORY.

  • WE CREATED THIS FICTIONAL HE DETECTIVE LOPEZ AND SHE GOES

  • AROUND THE WORLD INVESTIGATING THE LARGEST ECOLOGICAL CRIME IN

  • THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, THE DISAPPEARING OF LARGE ANIMALS OF

  • THE PLANET BEGINNING AROUND 50,000 YEARS AGO.

  • AND SHE IS ON THE TRAIL OF THESE SERIAL KILLERS.

  • AND THIS ONE CHAPTER.

  • AND ONE CHAPTER IS LIKE A SCIENCE FICTION SUPERHERO MOVIE.

  • WE CREATED THE FIRKSAL CHARACTER OF DR. FICTION AND SHE PERSON

  • FIES THE HUMAN ABILITY TO CREATE AND BELIEVE MYTHOLOGY AND

  • FICTIONAL STORIES AND ANOTHER IS-- WE EXPLAIN EVOLUTION

  • THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF A REALITY TV SHOW WITH DIFFERENT SPECIES

  • COMPETING FOR SURVIVAL.

  • >> James: IT IS A REALLY ENTERTAINING, ONE OF THE

  • SUPERHEROES, IS YOURSELF RIGHT HERE.

  • LOOK AT YOU THERE, HOW DOES IT FEEL TO SEE YOURSELF AS A

  • CARTOON CHARACTER WBLGZ NOT VERY COMFORTABLE.

  • WE HAD A HUGE DISCUSSION ON THAT.

  • THEY CAME WITH THE IDEA OF HAVING ME AS A CHARACTER IN THE

  • BOOKK AND I SAID ABSOLUTELY NO WAY.

  • AND THEY CONVINCED ME BUT WE HAD TO COMPROMISE, WE WILL HAVE AN

  • ENTIRE GROUP OF SCIENTISTS EXPLAINING DIFFERENT THINGS.

  • FIRST OF ALL BECAUSE SCIENCE IS A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT.

  • IT IS NEVER THE WORK OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.

  • LIKE I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT OUR THEOLOGY.

  • I READ THE PAPERS, THE BOOKS ABOUT THEOLOGY BUT I NEVER

  • CONDUCTED THEOLOGICAL EXPLANATION SO WE HAVE A

  • THEOLOGIST CHARACTER THERE AND LIKEWISE A BIOLOGIST AND IT IS

  • IMPORTANT TO ALSO SHOW DIFFERENT SCIENTISTS HAVE DIFFERENT

  • OPINIONS THEY SOMETIMES ARGUE, THEY SOMETIMES DISAGREE.

  • SO IT IS NOT JUST ME IT IS AN ENTIRE COLLECTION.

  • >> ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK IS HOMOSAPIENS

  • MAY DIE OUT IN KIND OF LIKE 80 YEARS, IS WHAT YOU SAY.

  • IN THE NEXT CENTURY OR SO THAT WE AS HOMOSAPIENS MAY CEASE TO

  • EXIST.

  • WHY IS THAT AND WHO IS REPLACING US.

  • >> FIRST OF ALL SPECIES DISAPPEAR.

  • 99 PERCENT OF SPECIES THAT ONCE EXISTED DON'T EXIST ANY MORE.

  • 50,000 YEARS AGO YOU HAD AT LEAST SIX DIFFERENT HUMAN

  • SPECIES ON EARTH BESIDES US, THE NEANDERTHALS AND OTHERS THAT ARE

  • NOT HERE ANY MORE.

  • SO SPECIES INCLUDING HUMAN SPECIES DISAPPEAR.

  • NOW REGARDING OUR OWN FATE HOMO SAPIENS WE ARE NOW CREATING

  • TECHNOLOGY TO REENGINEER LIFE.

  • BIO ENGINEERING ON THE ONE HAND AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE ON

  • THE OTHER HAND SO GIVEN THIS TECHNOLOGY I THINK IT IS VERY

  • LIKELY THAT IN A CENTURY OR TWO EARTH WILL BE DOMINATED BY

  • ENTITIES THAT ARE MUCH MORE DIFFERENT FROM US THAN WE ARE

  • DIFFERENT FROM KNEE ANDER THAWLS.

  • WE SHARE MOST OF OURED ABOUTEE, OUR BRAIN, OUR HE POATION WITH

  • THEE ANDER THALS, WE ARE CERTAINLY ORGANIC CREATURES LIKE

  • THEM.

  • BUT IN 200 YEARS EARTH MIGHT BE DOMINATED BY THE FIRST INORGANIC

  • CREATURES IN THE HISTORY OF LIFE.

  • SO GIVEN THE POWER OF THIS TECHNOLOGY, I THINK THERE ARE

  • JUST TWO OPTIONS.

  • EITHER WE DESTROY OURSELVES IN THE PROCESS, OR WE UPGRADE

  • OURSELVES INTO SOMETHING WE CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE.