>> THANK YOU, JAMES.

>> James: IT IS SO NICE TO SEE YOU.

IT IS LOVELY TO SEE YOU ANY DAY BUT PARTICULARLY TODAY WHERE IN

IS A LOT TO TALK ABOUT.

BUT FIRST OFF, HOW ARE YOU.

HOW IS EVERYONE IN THE FAMILY, ARE YOU ALL OKAY?

>> WE ARE ALL OKAY THANK YOU JAMES.

WE ARE SHELTERING NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

WE HAVE BEEN TOGETHER SINCE MID MARCH AND EVERYBODY IS STILL

ALIVE.

AND WE'RE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THE DAY, OUR DOGS ARE FINE,

EVERYTHING IS GOING ALL RIGHT.

>> James: GOOD, I'M THRILLED TO HEAR THAT.

NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT LAST NIGHT.

SO THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE BETWEEN VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN,

PRESIDENT TRUMP, SET THE SCENE FOR ME, WHAT IS DEBATE NIGHT

LIKE IN THE CLINTON HOUSEHOLD?

>> WELL FOR US LAST NIGHT IT WAS KIND EVER A DEPARTURE BECAUSE

WE'D DONE A LOT OF DEBATES BETWEEN THE TWO OF US.

AND YOU KNOW, WE NOW WERE OBSERVERS LIKE THE VAST MAJORITY

OF MACIALG WHO WAS WATCHING.

AND IT WAS NERVE-RACKING, JAMES.

OBVIOUSLY I'M DOING EVERYTHING I CAN TO HELP JOE BIDEN AND KAMALA

HARRIS TO WIN.

AND I DO HAVE THE UNIQUE EXPERIENCE OF HAVING SHARED A

DEBATE STAGE THREE TIMES WITH DONALD TRUMP.

AND I KNOW THAT HE WILL DO OR SAY ANYTHING AS WE SAW AGAIN

LAST NIGHT.

SO IRWAS WATCHING BUT EVERY SO OFTEN I WOULD KIND OF BE

CRINGING OR GO OH, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF DRAMATIC MOMENTS AND

THERE WERE A COUPLE OF TIMES I JUST HAD TO GET UP AND WALK

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW T IS VERY SAD TO THINK THAT WE'RE HAVING THE

MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN MAYBE OUR HISTORY COMING UP, AND THE

PRESIDENT ONE OF THE TWO CANDIDATES CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO

ANSWER THE QUESTION, TO PUT FORWARD ANY KIND OF A GENDA FOR

THE FUTURE, IT'S ALL INSULT AND ATTACKS AND BRAG DOSEIO, IT WAS

SAD, JAMES.

I MEAN IT WAS MADDENING AND SAD AT THE SAME TIME.

AND I JUST HEARD THAT THE DEBATE COMMISSION IS GOING TO HAVE TO

CHANGE THE RULES BECAUSE HE JUST WOULDN'T STOP INTERRUPTING.

I THOUGHT BIDEN KEPTS HIS COOL WHICH IS HARD.

KEPT STAIRING RIGHT AT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE INTO THOSE

CMERAS, INTO THOSE LIVING ROOMS TRYING TO SAY HERE IS WHAT HE

WOULD DO ABOUT COVID AND ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND ABOUT CLIMATE

CHANGE AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

SO I THOUGHT ON BALANCE YOU KNOW JOE DID FINE.

AND TRUMP DEMONSTRATED HOW OUT OF CONTROL HE IS AND I JUST

WORRY ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT MONTH IS GO BE TO BE LIKE.

>> WE ALL OF US ARE HAVING THOSE FEELINGS.

BUT HONESTLY HEARING YOU TALK ABOUT IT IS I THINK MAWKING

CERTAINLY A LOT OF US FEEL MUCH BETTER.

STUCK AROUND, MORE WITH SECRETARY CLINTON WHEN WE COME

BACK.

NOW SECRETARY CLINTON YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON ON EARTH WHOSE

FACED TRUMP ONE-ON-ONE APPROXIMATE IN A DEBATE.

I THINK WE ALL KNEW THAT THINGS WOULD GETS HEATED.

WHEN YOU WERE WATCHING JOE BIDEN WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE HIM

IN THOSE MOMENTS.

>> I ACTUALLY DID GIVE ADVICE TO THE CAMPAIGN, TO HIS DEBATE

TEAM, ITS WITH SOME OF THE VERY SAME PEOPLE THAT I WORKED WITH.

AND YOU CANNOT LET TRUMP KNOCK YOU OFF YOUR GAME.

NOW HE WILL AS WE SAW LAST NIGHT, AS WE SAW IN MY DEBATES

WITH HIM, TRY TO DOMINATE, TRY TO INTERRUPT, TRY TO CONTROL

WHATEVER THE TELEVISION IS.

AND SO YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY FOCUSED AND VERY DISCIPLINED

ABOUT NOT GETTING TOTALLY OFF THE RESERVATION ALL THE TIME

BECAUSE HE'LL ATTACK YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR ANSWERING A

QUESTION, TOTALLY AGAINST THE RULES.

AND YOU WANT TO CONTINUE ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION BUT YOU

DON'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE YOU ARE AVOIDING HIS, I THOUGHT BIDEN

DID A GOOD JOB TRYING TO KEEP HIS BALANCE, IN THE FACE OF THAT

90 MINION SLAWT.

I MEAN EVEN CHRIS WALLACE AS YOU KNOW IS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST

NEWSCASTERS.

CERTAINLY NO PUSHOVER.

AND HE WAS LIKE OVERWHELMED BY THE JUST FUSE LADGE OF INSULTS

AND INTERRUPTION THAT YOU HEARD FROM TRUMP.

IN FACT IT LOOKED LIKE THE DEBATE COMMISSION IS GOING TO

CHANGE THE RULES.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER TRUMP WILL AVOID BY THEM BUT THEY WILL TRY

TO GIVE THE MODERATORS MORE CONTROL.

MAYBE THEY WILL HAVE A KILL SWITCH ON THE MIC.

MAYBE THEY WILL HAVE A BUTTON TO PUSH AND THE FLOOR DROPS OUT.

I DON'T KNOW, BUT SOMETHING.

>> James: SO MY WORRY WITH THE KILL SWITCH WITH KNOCKING

SOMEONE'S MICROPHONE IS YOU HAVE TO THEN KNOCK OUT JOE BIDEN'S

MICROPHONE WHICH GIVES DONALD TRUMP BASICALLY 2 MINUTES TO

JUST LIE.

AND UNLESS THE MODERATOR STEPS IN AND SAYS THAT ISN'T TRUE,

THAT IS FALSE, I WOULD LIKE THAT TO BE ON THE RECORD THAT WHAT

YOU VUS SAID IS A LIE, WHAT ITIVE GOES HIM IS THAT HE ALSO

THEN GETS TWO MINUTES OF ABSOLUTE FREEDOM TO JUST JUST

LIE ABOUT IT.

>> WELL, I KNEW HE WOULD LIE.

HE'S INCAPABLE OF NOT LYING.

HE HAS MADE HIS CAREER ON THE BASIS OF LIES ABOUT HIS WEALTH.

WE NOW KNOW ABSOLUTELY DEFINITIVELY SOMETHING THAT I

SAID BACK IN 2016, HE'S NOT AS RICH AS HE CLAIMS.

HE DOESN'T PAY INCOME TAX AND EVERYTHING ELSE WE'VE LEARNED.

SO LYING IS NOT JUST SECOND, IT'S FIRST NATURE TO DONALD

TRUMP.

AND WHAT IS SO REGRETTABLE IS MANY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TEURNED

IN.

A LOT OF AMERICANS MADE UP ITS MIND BUT THERE STILL TRULY ARE

UNDECIDED PEOPLE, NOT JUST ABOUT WHO THEY WILL VOTE FOR BUT

WHETHER THEY WILL VOTE.

AND I THINK THAT IF THEY WERE TO WATCH THAT, AND JUST FEEL SO

ALIENATED FROM YOU KNOW, THE BEHAVIOR ON STAGE, YOU SEE IT AS

AN ASSAULT ON OUR ELECTION.

YOU SEE IT AS AN ASSAULT ON OUR DEMOCRACY, EVEN MORE THAN AN

ASSAULT ON JOE BIED ENAND I'M THE MODERATOR.

IT'S GOT TO BE TROUBLING AND DISCOURAGING TO MANY PEOPLE WHO

TUNED IN.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COMMISSION IS GOING TO COME UP

WITH, JAMES.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TECHNIQUE THEY'RE GOING TO TRY.

IT REALLY TAKES A VERY TOUGH MINDED MODERATOR NOT TO BE

OVERRUN BY TRUMP'S CONSTANT BULLYING BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY

WHAT WE SAW LAST NIGHT.

WE SAW A MEAN BULLY WHO KNOWS HE'S LOSING AND IS GOING TO TAKE

EVERYBODY DOWN WITH HIM IF WE LET HIM.

SO I THINK THAT THE COMMISSION IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE CREATIVE

AND WHOEVER THE NEXT MODERATE CERTIFICATE IS GOING TO HAVE TO

BE WILLING TO ENFORCE WHATEVER THE NEW RULES ARE.

> I THOUGHT VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS AT HIS MOST EFFECTIVE

IN THE MOMENTS THAT HE CHOSE TO SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THE AMERICAN

PEOPLE, WHEN HE SAID IT'S NOT ABOUT MY FAMILY, IT'S NOT ABOUT

YOUR FAMILY, IT'S ABOUT YOUR FAMILY AND THAT IS WHAT IT IS

ABOUT AND HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THAT.

AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS LIKE HE WAS AT HIS MOST EFFECTIVE.

AND I FEEL LIKE IF HE CAN STICK TO THAT, IF HE CAN STICK TO THE

NOTION THAT HE IS OF THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE, THEN HIS MESSAGE

HAS A PURITY TO IT.

I MEAN YOU IS SPEAK THERE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HIS FINANCES, HIS

TAXES.

AND THEN EVEN NOW IN HIS PRESIDENCY, HIS LACK OF

LEADERSHIP IN THE RESPONSE TO THE COVID CRISIS, THERE ARE SO

MANY THINGS.

I FEEL LIKE WEEKLY ON THIS SHOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TENS OF

TIMES THAT HE HAS COME UP SHORT OR LIED.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT NONE OF THESE REVELATION SEEM TO SWAY

HIS COMMITTED SUPPORT ERRED?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT HE HAS A HARD-CORE OF SUPPORT.

IT IS NOW IN THE LOW 40% RANGE.

AND THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO FOR A COMBINATION OF REASONS, JAMES,

ARE DRAWN TO A STYLE OF LEADERSHIP THAT IS BULLYING.

IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HOW THEY SEE THE WORLD AND THEIR

PLACE IN IT.

THEY ALSO FEEL LIKE HE'S ON THEIR SIDE WHEN IT COMES TO A

LOT OF THE CULTURAL ISSUES THAT UNFORTUNATELY HE HAS MADE VERY

DIVISIVE.

ONE OF THE WORST THINGS LAST NIGHT WAS TRUMP BASICALLY

REFUSING TO DENOUNCE WHITE SUPREMACY AND THEN GIVING A BIG

SHOUT OUT TO THE PROUD BOYS WHICH IS A GANG OF TOUGHS WHO ET

BOO UP PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH THEM POLITICALLY.

AND IT IS ALL TOO REMINISCENT OF WHAT AUTHOR-- AUTHORITARIAN

LEADERS HAVE DONE IN OTHER COUNTRIES, SO WHEN TRUMP WAS

ASKED TO DISOWN THE PROUD BOYS, HE BASICALLY SAID OH, YOU KNOW,

YEAH, STAND BACK BUT STAND BY, AND ACCORDING TO THE ONLINE

MEDIA TODAY, YOU KNOW, THE PROUD BOYS FEEL LIKE THAT IS A, YOU

KNOW, GO SIGNAL FROM TRUMP.

SO THERE ARE SEGMENTS OF HIS BASE THAT A TRA ATTRACTED TO HIM

AND STAY WITH HIM FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS BUT I BELIEVE WHAT'S

HAPPENING AND WHAT THE POLLS CERTAINLY SUGGEST IS THAT A LOT

OF PEOPLE AND PARTICULARLY WOMEN WHO HAVE WATCHED THIS PRESIDENCY

AND PARTICULARLY WATCHED HIS FAILURE OF LEADERSHIP AROUND THE

CORONAVIRUS ARE NOT BOYING IT ANY MORE.

THE REALITY SHOW IS NO LONGER ENTERTAINING.

IT IS ABOUT TO BE CANCELLED IN TERMS OF THEIR VIEW.

AND THEIR VOTE.

AND SO PART OF WHAT BIDEN IS DOING IS REASSURING PEOPLE WHO

YOU KNOW MAYBE VOTED FOR HIM.

MAYBE VOTED THIRD PARTY.

MAYBE DIDN'T VOTE, THAT THEY CAN COME TOGETHER IN THIS ELECTION

AND NOT ONLY DEFEAT DONALD TRUMP BUT GET BACK TO LEADERSHIP THAT

CARES ABOUT THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES.

AND DOESN'T SEEK TO DIVIDE US THE WAY THAT TRUMP DOES.

>> James: SOMEONE TWEETED LAST NIGHT, THEY TWEETED THAT THEY

WERE POSITIVE YOU WOULD HAVE WANTED TO SAY WILL YOU SHUT UP,

MAN, TO TRUMP IN 2016.

AND YOU RESPONDED WITH, YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

>>, IS THAT TRUE, DID YOU WATCH IT GOING I WISH I COULD HAVE

TOLD HIM TO SHUT UP.

>> OH MY GOSH, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS I WISH I

COULD HAVE SAID OR SHOULD HAVE SAID BUT FOR A LOT OF REASONS,

MOSTLY BECAUSE I ACTUALLY THINK YOU KNOW UKSZ ARE KSZ IT WOULD

BE AM HAB YOU BE-- MUCH HARDER FOR A WOMAN TO GET AWAY WITH

THAT, I THINK JOE GOT SOME REAL CREDIT FOR BASICALLY SAYING WHAT

A LOT OF PEOPLE WANTED TO SAY TO TRUMP.

BUT I THINK IT IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT, AT LEAST AT THIS

POINT IN OUR POLITICAL HISTORY, FOR A WOMAN TO SAY SOME OF THE

THINGS THAT I CERTAINLY THOUGHT.

>> James: NOW THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE KAMALA

HARRIS, SHE'S GOING TO DEBATE NEXT WEEK WITH VICE PRESIDENT

PENCE.

WHEN I SEE MIKE PENCE I SORT OF THINK I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF HE

LIKES DONALD TRUMP, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

LIKE DEEP DOWN, DEEP DEEP DOWN, I DON'T KNOW IF HE DOES.

I THOUGHT YOU CAN IMAGINE THE TWO OF THEM HAVING A

CONVERSATION.

YOU THINK WHAT CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE TALKING ABOUT.

LIKE YOU KNOW, ONE IS A MAN WHO IS IN-- WHO IS SAYS THAT HE IS A

DEEPLY RELIGIOUS QULISSIAN MAN AND THE OTHER MAN WON'T CONDEMN

WHITE SUPREMACY, NORMALLY THOSE TWO DON'T HAVE BREAKFAST

TOGETHER.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE HEARD OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE A DEAL

WITH THE DEVIL, HAVEN'T YOU.

PEOPLE WHO USE SOMEONE THAT THEY MAY NO RESPECT OR ADMIRE, BUT

WHO THEY BELIEVE IS GOING TO FURTHER THEIR AGENDA.

AND MIKE PENCE IS PART OF A VERY CONSERVATIVE PART OF THE

REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THAT HAS A VERY SPECIFIC CULTURAL AGENDA.

AND I THINK THEY'RE WILLING TO PUT UP WITH A LOT OF WHAT WE

WOULD ALL CONSIDER UNACCEPTABLE, INSULTING BEHAVIOR FOR TRUMP TO

JUST KEEP GIVING THEM WHAT THEY WANT.

I THINK THAT ST THE BEST EXPLANATION.

>> DOES IT WORRY YOU, IT WORRIES ME BECAUSE WHEN TRUMP TALKS

ABOUT A PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER SHOULD THE ELECTION NOT GO

HIS WAY AND HE SAYS WELL, WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE AND

THOSE THINGS, DO YOU WORRY THAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE MEMBERS OF

THAT REPUBLICAN PARTY, IT'S GOING TO TAKE THE MITCH Mc--

McMCCONNELLS, MAKE PENCES AND TED CRUZ, THESE CHARACTERS WE

HAVE GOTTEN TO KNOW IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS AND YOU KNOW A LOT

LONGER.

DO WE LOOK AND SAY WHO HAS THE BACKBONE AND GUMP SLUN TO SAY