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  • >> Stephen: I'LL GET IT DOWN EVENTUALLY.

  • HEY, WELCOME BACK, EBBED.

  • HE HAS ACTED IN OVER 80 MOVIES, INCLUDING "TRAINING DAY,"

  • "BOYHOOD," AND "FIRST REFORMED."

  • HE NOW STARS IN A SERIES HE CREATED AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCES

  • CALLED "THE GOOD LORD BIRD."

  • PLEASE WELCOME TO "A LATE SHOW," ETHAN HAWKE!

  • ETHAN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE!

  • >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

  • IT'S A PLEASURE.

  • >> Stephen: WE'LL GET INTO THIS A LITTLE LATER IN THE

  • INTERVIEW.

  • I JUST WANTED TO START OFF BY SAYING HOW MUCH I'M LOVING "THE

  • GOOD LORD BIRD."

  • IT'S BASED ON A TRUE MAN, IT'S CRAZY AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S

  • TARAJI, FUNNY, A LOT TO TALK ABOUT.

  • FIRST, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEATER BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE A

  • THEATER GUY.

  • TOBY NOMINATED, DIRECTED BROADWAY.

  • WHAT DID YOU MAKE TO HAVE THE THEATER OF THE DEBATE THE --

  • WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE THEATER OF THE DEBATE THE OTHER NIGHT?

  • HOW WOULD YOU DECONSTRUCT THAT AS A DIRECTOR?

  • >> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

  • MY FIRST RESPONSE IS IT KIND OF SEEMED LIKE THE MOMENT IN "STAR

  • WARS" AT THE GENERALLY REVIEWLS HE'S A CENTHOR .

  • SO THAT'S MY FIRST THOUGHT.

  • YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT CINEMA.

  • IF IT WAS THEATER, IF DAVID MAMMOTH DID 14 LINES OF CRYSTAL

  • METH, STAYED UP ALL NIGHT AND WROTE A SHORT PLAY ABOUT THE

  • DOWNFALL OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BUT COULDN'T GET DINERO

  • AND PACINO SO HAD TO GET TWO UNDERSTUDIES FROM BURT REYNOLDS

  • DINNER THEATER AND SHOVE THEM ON AND SAID, GO!

  • THAT'S THE THEATER I THOUGHT IT WAS.

  • >> Stephen: THERE ARE STILL UNDECIDED VOTERS OUT THERE.

  • AND I'M FROM SOUTH CAROLINA.

  • I'VE GOT FRIENDS BACK HOME WHO ARE FANS OF THE PRESIDENT.

  • DO YOU STILL STAY IN TOUCH?

  • YOU HAVE ROOTS IN TEXAS.

  • DO YOU HAVE FRIENDS BACK HOME WHO SUPPORTED THE SNPT.

  • >> -- SUPPORTED THE PRESIDENT?

  • OF COURSE.

  • MY FAMILY'S FROM TEXAS AND WHENEVER WE GET INTO THIS THING

  • THAT WE THINK SOMEBODY ELSE IS EVIL, WE'VE LOST OUR PATH,

  • REALLY.

  • THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS WHAT I HEAR FROM MY FAMILY IS IMMENSE

  • SADNESS, EVEN FROM THE FAMILIAR MEMBERS THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP,

  • ABOUT THE LEVEL OF MISINFORMATION AND HOW MUCH THEY

  • ARE PREYING ON PEOPLE'S FEAR AND GREED, AND THERE'S A KIND OF

  • SADNESS COMING FROM MY FAMILY THAT HE'S NOT WHO THEY HAD HOPED

  • HE WAS.

  • AND IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY LIKE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, BUT

  • IT'S -- IF NOTHING ELSE, I HATE TO SAY IT, THERE'S AN OVERRIDING

  • SADNESS.

  • >> Stephen: I AGREE.

  • THERE'S A SENSE OF GRIEF AND LOSS FOR A LOT OF AMERICANS EVEN

  • FOR PEOPLE WHO SUPPORTED THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE THEY SEE HIM

  • AS SOMEONE WHO'S PRECIOUS TO THEM BEING ATTACKED.

  • >> YEAH, YOU CAN'T BE A SERIOUS CHRISTIAN AND RESPOND TO SOME OF

  • THE THINGS THAT HE SAYS, NOT REALLY.

  • YOU CAN'T.

  • YOU CAN'T ACCEPT THAT KIND OF LEADERSHIP.

  • HE'S BROKEN DOWN POLITICAL PARTIES.

  • YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY MEMBERS -- YOU KNOW, GEORGE H.W. BUSH WAS A

  • VERY SERIOUS PERSON.

  • THAT'S A FORMIDABLE HUMAN BEING WHO'S EDUCATED AND DEDICATED HIS

  • LIFE FOR WHAT HE BELIEVED WAS THE BETTERMENT TO HAVE THE

  • UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND HE DID A LOT OF GREAT THINGS.

  • SEE, THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUTRABOUT REPUBLICANS AND DEMO

  • WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW.

  • WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE FANNING THE FLAMES OF OUR

  • INABILITY TO SEE EACH OTHER.

  • TAKE THE PANDEMIC FOR EXAMPLE, WE'RE KIND OF GIVEN THIS FALSE

  • ARGUMENT LIKE WE HAVE TO DECIDE BETWEEN THE ECONOMY AND OUR

  • HEALTH, AS IF -- WE'RE GROWNUPS.

  • WE'RE RESPONSIBLE ADULTS AND PARENTS AND WE HAVE TO DO BOTH.

  • WE HAVE TO KEEP PEOPLE HEALTHY AND KEEP THE ECONOMY GOING.

  • IT'S A FALSE ARGUMENT THAT ONE SIDE OF THE TEAM IS FOR

  • SOMETHING, AND IT CREATES THIS CHAOS OF, YOU KNOW, DUALISTIC

  • THINKING THAT MAKES EVERYBODY SMALLER THAN WHAT WE REALLY ARE.

  • >> Stephen: ALL OF THAT IS A PER FECK LEADUP SO THE SHOW THAT

  • YOU'RE ON HERE TO TALK ABOUT, THE GOOD LORD BIRD, WHERE YOU

  • PLAY JOHN BROWN.

  • HERE IS A PHOTO OF YOU PLAYING JOHN BROWN.

  • I HAVEN'T GOTTEN THIS FAR IN THE SHOW YET BUT YOU WILL EVENTUALLY

  • LOOK LIKE THIS IN IT, RIGHT?

  • SO HERE'S A GUY WHO IS IN A TIME OF CHAOS, TOOK HIS BIBLE VERY

  • SERIOUSLY, WAS FINE WITH DIVIDING PEOPLE.

  • FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW, WHO WAS JOHN BROWN?

  • >> OKAY.

  • WELL, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

  • JOHN BROWN WAS A NONVIOLENT ABOLITIONIST UNTIL HE WAS ABOUT

  • 51 YEARS OLD.

  • HIS GRANDFATHER FOUGHT WITH GEORGE WASHINGTON.

  • HE HAD A BIG PROBLEM WITH THE CONSTITUTION AND ITS

  • RELATIONSHIP TO THE EQUALITY OF MAN KIND.

  • SO HE BECAME A STAUNCH ABOLITIONEST.

  • SO JOHN BROWN WAS THIS MAN'S GRANDSON.

  • HIS FATHER AND HE WAS AN ABOLITIONIST.

  • WHEN HIS SONS WENT DOWN TO SETTLE IN KANSAS, BECAUSE KANSAS

  • WAS A TERRITORY, RIGHT, AND THIS IS A BRIEF HISTORY, BUT KANSAS

  • WAS A TERRITORY, AND IT WAS ABOUT TO BECOME A STATE, AND IF

  • IT WENT PRO-SLAVE THAT WOULD THROW THE SENATE ONE WAY, AND IF

  • IT WAS A FREE STATE IT WOULD THROW THE SENATE ANOTHER WAY.

  • THE ABOLITIONISTS WERE MOVING TO KANSAS TO VOTE FOR SLAVERY.

  • AND POOR PEOPLE IN MISSOURI, THEY'RE SETTLING THEM TO KANSAS

  • TO VOTE FOR SLAVERY.

  • THIS TURNED INTO BLOODY KANSAS.

  • PEOPLE STARTED ATTACKING JOHN BROWN'S SON.

  • AFTER A LIFETIME OF BEING A NONVIOLENT ABOLITIONIST,

  • SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO FORCE PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH.

  • HE WAS A CALVINIST AND A VERY SERIOUS CHRISTIAN WHO TOOK THE

  • IDEA WE WERE MADE BY THE SAME MAKE TORE HEART AND HE WENT TO

  • REMIND EVERYBODY AND WAS WILLING TO GET INTO A FIGHT.

  • TO HE'S GREAT SURPRISE -- I PLAYED THE MAN, I THOUGHT HE WAS

  • GOING TO GET KILLED QUICKLY.

  • TO HIS GREAT SURPRISE, HE WAS GREAT ADD GUNFIGHTING.

  • HE LED A RAID.

  • HE TOOK OVER THE NATION'S LARGEST ARMORY, HARPER'S FERRY,

  • WITH A BUNCH OF BLACK AND WHITE FOLKS WORKING TOGETHER, THEY

  • TOOK IT OVER HOPING TO INCITE A REVOLUTION.

  • HE FAILED AT THAT BUT WHAT HE SUCCEEDED TO DO WAS TO WAKE UP

  • AND SHAME THE WHITE CHRISTIAN NORTH AMERICANS, YOU KNOW THE

  • AMERICANS OF THE NORTH.

  • AND ABOUT 16 MONTHS AFTER HE WAS HUNG, THE CIVIL WAR STARTED.

  • >> Stephen: THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY IN SOME WAYS A VERY

  • DARK STORY, INCREDIBLY DRAMATIC STORY.

  • IT'S ALSO FUNNY AT THE SAME TIME.

  • HOW DID YOU -- WHAT DID YOU INTEND -- I KNOW YOU INTENDED.

  • WHAT I MEANT TO SAY IS DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU COULD GET AWAY

  • WITH THIS TO MAKE JOHN BROWN NOT ONLY A DRAMATIC SORT OF PROFECK

  • FIGURE BUT ALSO AN EXTREMELY FLAWED AND FUNNY ONE AT THE SAME

  • TIME.

  • >> YOU KNOW THIS BETTER THAN ANYBODY.

  • IF YOU TALK -- IF YOU YELL AT PEOPLE AND PREACH AT THEM AND

  • TELL THEM THEY'RE WRONG AND TRY TO TEACH THEM WHAT'S THE RIGHT

  • THING TO DO, NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR THAT.

  • IF YOU MAKE THEM LAUGH, THEY CAN SEE THE TRUTH OFT WHAT YOU'RE

  • SAYING AND DON'T FEEL ATTACKED.

  • AND THE GENIUS MAGIC TRICK OF JAMES McBRIDE, THE AUTHOR OF

  • THIS STORY, HE WON THE NATIONAL BOOK AWARD IN 2013, IS HE MAKES

  • YOU LAUGH AND MAKES YOUR HEART THROB WITH LOVE AND HEALING OVER

  • OUR CON'S GREATEST -- OUR COUNTRY'S GREATEST WOUND.

  • >> Stephen: IT HAS BEEN SO LONG SINCE JOHN BROWN WAS HANGED

  • IN 1859, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS STORY SPEAKS TO IN OUR

  • PRESENT TIME OF RACIAL RECKONING IN 2020?

  • >> WELL, WHAT I HOPE IS THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE IS THAT OUR

  • COUNTRY HAS BEEN HERE BEFORE.

  • THE BLOOD HAS ALREADY BEEN SHED.

  • WE KNOCKED DOWN THIS DOORWAY.

  • THERE'S A LINE IN THE SHOW THAT McBRIDE WRITES ABOUT HARRIET

  • TUBMAN SAYS, THE DOORSTEP OF CHANGE IS OPEN, YOU KNOW,

  • FREEDOM IS THERE, WE JUST HAVE TO WALK THROUGH IT.

  • AND I THINK PEOPLE LIKE HARRIET TUBMAN AND JOHN BROWN AND

  • FREDERIC DOUGLAS AND SOJOURNER TRUTH, THESE PEOPLE WOULD BE

  • HEART BROKEN TO SEE THAT YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY HAVE TO MARCH, AND

  • THEY HAVE TO.

  • WE HAVE TO.

  • WE HAVE TO DEMAND SOCIAL JUSTICE.

  • WE HAVE TO WALK THROUGH THIS DOOR, YOU KNOW.

  • AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE SHOCKED.

  • NONE OF THESE PEOPLE WANTED THAT BLOODSHED ANYMORE THAN YOU OR I

  • DOSM NONE OF THESE PEOPLE WANTED VIOLENCE.

  • BUT WE ALREADY DID THIS, YOU KNOW, AND THE JOHN BROWN STORY

  • PUTS A MICROSCOPE -- YOU KNOW, THIS EXPRESSION EVERYBODY

  • THROWING AROUND, SYSTEMIC RACISM, JOHN BROWN, IF YOU LOOKT

  • AT HIS STORY, IT TURNS THE MICROSCOPE TO THE DNA WITH WHICH

  • THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT, AND IT'S GOT SOME DESIGN FLAWS, YOU KNOW,

  • FROM THE ZONING OF OUR CITIES TO OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM TO OUR POLICE

  • FORCE TO THE WAYTT THAT WE THINK AND TREAT EACH OTHER.

  • YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT SOME FUNDAMENTAL DESIGN FLAWS, AND IF

  • WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT AND LAUGH ABOUT IT AND SAY THE WRONG THING

  • AND FORGIVE EACH OTHER AND WORK TOWARDS IT, THEN THE DIALOGUE

  • KEEPS SHUTTING DOWN AND WHEN THE DIALOGUE SHUTS DOWN, NOTHING'S

  • GOING TO GET BETTER.

  • THAT'S MY THOUGHT.

  • THAT'S MY SOAPBOX.

  • >> Stephen: WELL DONE.

  • WELL DONE.

  • "THE GOOD LORD BIRD" PREMIERES SUNDAY NIGHT ON SHOWTIME.

  • ETHAN HAWKE, EVERYBODY.

  • WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH FORMER LEAD PROSECUTOR FOR THE MUELLER

  • INVESTIGATION, ANDREW WEISSMANN.

  • ♪ ♪

>> Stephen: I'LL GET IT DOWN EVENTUALLY.

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Ethan Hawke: What The Story Of John Brown Tells Us About America Today

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    林宜悉 posted on 2020/10/27
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