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  • and some of the big points in that talk or one was affairs are less about sex and more about desire that the fair sometimes Aaron, antidote for death that even happy people cheat.

  • And you said in the majority of couples with affairs, actually stay together.

  • Yes, all very counterintuitive.

  • Yes, of course.

  • On the one hand, we would we know that infidelity is a leading cause for divorce.

  • But here is much more infidelity than there are divorces.

  • So most people stay together at least the first time around.

  • That's you see, this is the same logic as mating in captivity, right?

  • I didn't write the book in mating for people who don't get along and also no longer have any sex together.

  • It's the same about affairs.

  • It would be easy to say, Obviously, people have affairs because they don't like their partner and because they have miserable relationships now, if they do, they actually divorced.

  • These days, they have affairs is because the relationship is good enough for many other things.

  • And the easy thing would be to say people have no sex because they don't have good connections.

  • People have affairs because they have bad connections.

  • That's true, but I see people up to people coming in and say, I love my partner The last thing I want to hurt his hurt My partner to that I want to do is hurt my partner, and I am having an affair.

  • That's a much more complicated question.

  • Why would people risked losing everything for a glimmer of What is this link back to your first talk?

  • Yes, this is same.

  • It's the continuation.

  • Mating grapples with the dilemmas of desire on the inside of relationships and rethinking infidelity looks at what happens when desire breaks free anyway goes looking elsewhere.

  • So it is a natural continuation.

  • But the up the logical thing is to say people do this because they have problems in the relationship.

  • It's the symptom model on a fair happens because there's a flawed relationship rather than actually grappling with perch, more complicated imponderables of existential honoree and complexities of love and desire by which actually affairs happen, and sometimes they have nothing to do with the relationship.

  • The relationship is actually perfectly fine.

  • That's not what it's about.

  • And then you enter into the question of transgression afterward.

  • Infidelities, existence.

  • It's marriage was invented.

  • So marriage has changed continuously, and infidelity has a tin ashes tenaciousness that Paris could only envy, you know, And that's a line that has become very, very clear that there's a robustness of infidelity.

  • No single mother of infidelity of marriage manages to outdo like a race.

  • No matter how much marriage tries to adapt to the times, infidelity tops it.

  • There's always another way.

  • So now we need to look at the power of transgression.

  • What is it about us from Adam and Eve on that wants to break free out of the very constraints which we have sometimes created, which yesterday we thought where the ones we wanted.

  • I wanted nothing more than this family and these Children and this secure job and this big hole home.

  • I have an all of that, and then one day all of that feels so meaningless.

  • It's been it's been the shackles.

  • It's been the thing I wanted to be.

  • I have done always what was expected of me, and now I want to do what I really want to do.

  • And that narrative was back to what I talked about when I spoke about what people regret when they die, you know, it's you hear the conversation between the dutiful self and the selfish self, between the thinking about others and the thinking about me and the places where they go together and the places where they clash.

  • And so here is distinct with infidelity, which by definition is an act of entitlement and selfishness.

  • But it is a lot more to do with what I do for me than what I'm actually doing to you.

  • And yet when it is uncovered, what it does to you, it's so shattering and so gutting, so painful, more so that he never waas because socially it breaks everything down.

  • You know, I was in Morocco last week, Mac ish, and I had a conversation with a young group of young women and young men in their twenties from the village is actually who were working in the city.

  • And at one point I said, You know, in America in the West in general, the push today is that if a woman can finally leave, she doesn't just have to stay there and bear her misery should just get out.

  • And so one of the girls said to me May madam, if we had to divorce all of the unfaithful men, all of Morocco would be divorced had just thought.

  • Here's the difference.

  • You know, I am fascinated by how we one day want certain things and how the next day.

  • Those are the things that we think are imprisoning us.

  • How we can have multiple loves, how we can have different kinds of loves.

  • How we became one person here and then we remember that there are all these other parts of us and they suddenly manifest elsewhere.

  • How sexual revolutions don't happen at home and how the same person who here is completely sexually shut down in this other place is lustful and free and eager and why they can't bring it home.

  • And all these imperfections and some level we would say that infidelity is an imperfect compromise to in perfect lives.

  • Is it almost just something endemic of us?

  • As a society?

  • I was up setting up our own rules and then wanting to break them.

  • But it has always existed, and we've always had rules, and we've always wanted to break rules.

  • The rules change and, you know, let's be very clear.

  • Fidelity was an imposition on women in order to know about patrimony and lineage.

  • You know now that we can't now that you can't prove it by the Children, you prove it by the exclusiveness.

  • But it's changed from an imposition on women toe a dual gender conviction.

  • Instead of giving more freedom to women, we've taken the freedoms of men away.

  • You could put it like, what was the reaction to your talking?

  • What were you trying to get people to take away?

  • The I wanted a conversation that will embrace complexity.

  • As always, I think I deal with subjects that are complicated and that people often want to simplify toe, make them reductionist, IQ and simplistic and are often very polarized.

  • So the conversation about infidelity becomes a conversation about villain and victim and good and bad and perpetrator and ST and I think it is not the truth.

  • And I don't believe that these kinds of conversations that are polarized that are extreme, in which you take the extreme example, and you make that become the norm, and you think that if you don't condemn, it means that you condone, and if you try to understand, it's as if you're justifying these kinds of discourses, the existing politics, they exist in society.

  • They exist in the conversation about infidelity, and they breed narrowness, judgmental nous and discrimination.

  • And they don't help couples and families and Children, that's for sure.

  • So that's what I see.

  • I see these all or nothing conversations, and I'm thinking that's an example of an authoritarian discourse of a rigid narrow.

  • And I get drawn there and I want to loosen this up because it's it's a lie.

  • It's dishonest.

  • It's a It's a dishonest way to looking at dishonesty, right?

  • And it doesn't capture the nuances of the human heart, which is really what Infidelities about.

  • The question is not.

  • Is it good or is it bad?

  • That question is, what do we learn about love, lust and commitment by studying infidelity?

  • It is an amazing window, the same way that sexuality is a window, right?

  • If you look at sexuality from a societal point of view, you would say that the most progressive aspect of a society in agriculture large themselves around the changes that take place around sexuality covering your head, abortion, nakedness, sexual education, homosexual marriage, all of these us around the sexual window and the most traditional archaic site of a society also large themselves.

  • If you want to control a population control, the women control what they can wear.

  • How much skin they can show wet comes what kind of interaction they can have with men and who has the education and the information of the Children and the sexuality of Children who owns the sexuality of human and how much Does an adult have a right on the sexuality of Children in abusive way and all of that?

  • It is so foundational.

  • It's almost amazing how little we talk about it when you see how essentially this to progress and change.

  • And two tradition and rootedness and infidelity is right in there with that, because infidelity has been one of the ways we controlled sex, if there is a taboo against infidelity, is because somebody understood human nature.

  • We are figure, we are curious and we are greedy.

  • We are not generally meant to stay put in one place.

  • There would be no taboo if there was no sizeable threat.

  • And what's more threatening than human nature?

  • What are some of the other myths about sexuality but saying things that we don't talk about it, don't understand.

  • To watch the rest of this fascinating interview click on the link below and go to London Real academy dot com.

  • There you consign him with your social media log in and watch the rest of the episode for free, along with all of our episodes on London riel, my webinars and all of our premium content, all located over at London Real academy dot com.

  • So click on the link below, You'll be directed there, and you can watch the rest of this fascinating interview and I'll see there.

and some of the big points in that talk or one was affairs are less about sex and more about desire that the fair sometimes Aaron, antidote for death that even happy people cheat.

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HUMAN NATURE IS GREEDY: Belgian Psychotherapist Esther Perel Explains Why People Are Unfaithful

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    林宜悉 posted on 2020/08/30
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