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  • >> Alcindor: ONE DAY AFTER THE

  • U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

  • APPROVED TWO ARTICLES OF

  • IMPEACHMENT, DEMOCRATS HOPING TO

  • TAKE ON PRESIDENT TRUMP NEXT

  • NOVEMBER WERE ON STAGE,

  • DEBATING.

  • AND ON THAT SAME NIGHT, AT A

  • CAMPAIGN RALLY IN MICHIGAN, THE

  • PRESIDENT SPOKE FOR MORE THAN

  • TWO HOURS.

  • HE ANGRILY BLASTED DEMOCRATS AND

  • ATTACKED THE IMPEACHMENT

  • PROCESS.

  • JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS ALL OF

  • THIS ARE CHRIS BUSKIRK, EDITOR

  • AND PUBLISHER OF "AMERICAN

  • GREATNESS," WHO IS IN PHOENIX,

  • ARIZONA; AND KARINE JEAN-PIERRE,

  • CHIEF PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICER AT

  • moveon.org IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

  • SHE'S ALSO THE AUTHOR OF "MOVING

  • FORWARD: A STORY OF HOPE, HARD

  • WORK AND THE PROMISE OF

  • AMERICA."

  • THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR

  • JOINING ME TODAY.

  • KARINE, I'M GOING TO START WITH

  • YOU.

  • HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI IS

  • NOW INDICATING SHE MAY DELAY

  • SENDING THE ARTICLES OF

  • IMPEACHMENT TO THE SENATE.

  • WHO BENEFITS FROM THAT POTENTIAL

  • STRATEGY?

  • >> YOU KNOW WHAT, YAMICHE, RIGHT

  • NOW WE'RE IN A CONSTITUTIONAL

  • GAME OF CHICKEN.

  • I DON'T THINK THAT OUR FOUNDING

  • FATHERS EVER THOUGHT THAT WE

  • WOULD BE IN A SITUATION WHERE

  • YOU HAVE ONE BODY, THE SENATE,

  • WHO SEEMS TO BE WANTING TO

  • COLLUDE WITH THE EXECUTIVE

  • BRANCH-- THAT IS, MITCH

  • McCONNELL, WHO HAS BASICALLY

  • SAID HE'S GOING TO WORK HAND IN

  • HAND WITH THE TRUMP

  • ADMINISTRATION.

  • AND WITH ALL OF THE GUIDANCE

  • THAT WE'VE RECEIVED IN THE

  • CONSTITUTION, WE'RE KIND IN A

  • GRAY AREA.

  • AND WHAT I THINK IS HAPPENING,

  • WHAT SEEMS TO BE HAPPENING IS

  • THAT SPEAKER PELOSI IS

  • ESSENTIALLY SAYING SHE WANTS A

  • FAIR TRIAL IN THE SENATE AND IS

  • USING HER LEVERAGE AT THIS

  • MOMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT

  • HAPPENS.

  • SO, RIGHT NOW, THIS IS JUST

  • WHERE WE ARE.

  • WE'RE IN... WE'RE IN THE HOLIDAY

  • SEASON.

  • WE WON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S

  • GOING TO BE HAPPENING UNTIL

  • AFTER JANUARY 6, WHEN THE HOUSE

  • AND THE SENATE COMES BACK FROM

  • THE HOLIDAY.

  • >> Alcindor: HOUSE SPEAKER

  • NANCY PELOSI IS SAYING SHE MIGHT

  • WITHHOLD THOSE ARTICLES OF

  • IMPEACHMENT FROM THE SENATE.

  • WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

  • KARINE SAYS WE'RE IN A GAME OF

  • CHICKEN HERE.

  • >> YEAH, I MEAN, I'VE GOT TO

  • TELL YOU, YAMICHE, THIS HAS GOT

  • TO BE ONE OF MY FAVORITE STORIES

  • OF THE ENTIRE YEAR.

  • IT JUST SORT OF TICKLES ME

  • BECAUSE IT DEMONSTRATES WHAT A

  • BROKEN INSTITUTION CONGRESS IN

  • GENERAL IS.

  • AND THAT'S NOT REALLY SO MUCH A

  • HIT ON DEMOCRATS, ON

  • REPUBLICANS.

  • IT JUST SAYS, YOU KNOW, HERE WE

  • ARE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE

  • IMPEACHMENT OF THE PRESIDENT OF

  • THE UNITED STATES.

  • DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN TALKING

  • ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY

  • SINCE THE BEGINNING OF 2017.

  • THEY FINALLY PASSED THE

  • ARTICLES, BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO

  • SEND THEM TO THE SENATE.

  • AND SO, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS,

  • I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS JUST

  • SORT OF DEGENERATED TO THE POINT

  • WHERE CONGRESS HAS BECOME LIKE

  • AN ARTISTS' COLLECTIVE

  • PERFORMING FOR THE RELATIVE

  • CONSTITUENCIES AND THEIR

  • PATRONS.

  • WE ALL KNOW HOW THIS ENDS UP.

  • THIS EVENTUALLY GOES TO THE

  • SENATE.

  • THERE'S GOING TO BE A TRIAL.

  • DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO BE

  • ACQUITTED, AND THEN WE'RE GOING

  • TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE

  • ELECTION.

  • AND SO, TO THE EXTENT THAT THIS

  • DELAYS TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL

  • ELECTION THAT'S HAPPENING IN

  • NOVEMBER, WHETHER ANYBODY LIKES

  • IT OR NOT, I JUST DON'T SEE HOW

  • THIS HELPS DEMOCRATS.

  • SO, I WOULD THINK THAT NANCY

  • PELOSI WOULD WANT TO GET THIS

  • OVER TO MITCH McCONNELL AND TO

  • THE REPUBLICANS SOONER RATHER

  • THAN LATER.

  • >> Alcindor: CHRIS, STICKING

  • WITH YOU, "CHRISTIANITY TODAY,"

  • AN EVANGELICAL MAGAZINE, CAME

  • OUT IN SUPPORT OF REMOVING

  • PRESIDENT TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

  • THE EDITOR WROTE THAT PRESIDENT

  • TRUMP IS AN EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE

  • WHO IS MORALLY LOST AND

  • CONFUSED.

  • WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

  • AND HOW ARE REPUBLICANS TALKING

  • ABOUT THAT MAGAZINE COMING OUT

  • WITH THAT STANCE?

  • >> YEAH, SO, I THOUGHT THIS WAS

  • A TOTALLY INTERESTING STORY, AND

  • YOU ACTUALLY KEYED IN ON THE

  • LANGUAGE THAT I THOUGHT WAS MOST

  • INTERESTING IN THE WHOLE

  • EDITORIAL BY MARK GALLI, WHO'S

  • THE DEPARTING EDITOR OF

  • "CHRISTIANITY TODAY."

  • AND SO, HE SAYS, YES, DONALD

  • TRUMP SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM

  • OFFICE.

  • BUT HE USES AS A PREDICATE FOR

  • THAT, HE CALLS HIM MORALLY LOST.

  • AND THE THING THAT JUMPED OUT TO

  • ME ABOUT THAT LANGUAGE IS THAT

  • "LOST," YOU KNOW, IN A CHRISTIAN

  • CONTEXT, THAT'S A VERY FREIGHTED

  • TERM, RIGHT?

  • CHRISTIANS TALK ABOUT THE SAVED

  • AND THE LOST.

  • AND SO, WHAT... SO, IT JUST

  • STRUCK ME WHAT GALLI'S DOING

  • HERE IS, HE'S SETTING UP SORT OF

  • THIS DICHOTOMY WHERE YOU HAVE TO

  • SAY... YOU HAVE TO THINK HE'S

  • EITHER SAYING ON THE ONE HAND,

  • WELL, HE'S MORALLY LOST--

  • MEANING DONALD TRUMP ISN'T A

  • CHRISTIAN AND THEREFORE OUGHT

  • NOT TO BE IN OFFICE.

  • SO, IS HE SAYING THAT CHRISTIANS

  • OUGHT NOT TO BE PRESIDENT?

  • I HOPE NOT.

  • WELL, ON THE OTHER HAND, WHAT

  • HE'S TRYING TO DO IS WRAP HIS

  • POLITICAL OPINIONS IN CHRISTIAN

  • VOCABULARY IN ORDER TO TRY AND

  • BASICALLY TRICK THE READERS OF

  • "CHRISTIANITY TODAY" INTO

  • BELIEVING HIM.

  • AND EITHER WAY, I THINK THAT'S

  • SUPER CYNICAL.

  • >> Alcindor: TURNING NOW TO

  • THE DEMOCRATIC DEBATE, KARINE,

  • WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF HOW, IF AT

  • ALL, THAT THIS DEMOCRATIC DEBATE

  • MIGHT IMPACT THE IOWA CAUCUSES?

  • THEY'RE JUST AROUND THE CORNER.

  • AND IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CAN TALK

  • A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT CHRIS

  • JUST SAID, BUT I ALSO REALLY

  • WANT TO GET TO THE IOWA CAUCUSES

  • AND THIS DEMOCRATIC DEBATE.

  • >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL,

  • CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE AT

  • PBS.

  • YOU GUYS DID A FANTASTIC JOB.

  • IT WAS A VERY, VERY GOOD

  • MODERATED DEBATE.

  • SO, CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU,

  • YAMICHE, AS WELL.

  • LOOK, I THINK IT WAS, ALL IN

  • ALL, IT WAS A GOOD DEBATE LAST

  • WEEK.

  • NOBODY... NOBODY DID GREAT AND

  • NOBODY DID TERRIBLE.

  • I THINK THAT HAVING LESS PEOPLE

  • ON THE DEBATE STAGE REALLY

  • ALLOWED A REAL CONVERSATION

  • ABOUT VISION, ABOUT WHAT

  • PEOPLE'S PLANS ARE.

  • SOMEONE LIKE KLOBUCHAR REALLY

  • WAS ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF

  • HAVING LESS PEOPLE ON STAGE.

  • BIDEN DID WELL.

  • FOR WARREN AND OTHERS, LIKE

  • BERNIE SANDERS, I THINK IT WAS A

  • FINE DEBATE.

  • AS FAR AS IOWA, WE'RE LESS THAN

  • 50 DAYS TO IOWA.

  • WE'RE IN THE HOLIDAY SEASON.

  • I THINK EVERYTHING IS KIND OF

  • FROZEN INTO PLACE.

  • WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE MUCH

  • MOVEMENT IN THE POLLS UNTIL

  • AFTER JANUARY WHEN WE GET CLOSER

  • TO, CLEARLY, THE CAUCUS.

  • AND, HONESTLY, I MEAN, THE POLLS

  • HAVE BEEN THE POLLS.

  • THE TOP THREE, THE TOP FOUR,

  • THAT TIER ONE HAS BASICALLY BEEN

  • WHAT WE SEE.

  • I THINK WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT

  • IOWA CAUCUS AND THE HISTORY OF

  • IT, AND HOW IT GOES IN THE

  • DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, USUALLY IT'S

  • SOMEONE THAT'S KIND OF... THAT

  • BREAKS LATE THAT WINS THE IOWA

  • CAUCUS.

  • SO, I ACTUALLY THINK IOWA IS

  • WIDE OPEN.

  • ANYONE CAN TAKE IT.

  • AND SO, IT'S GOING TO BE... IT'S

  • GOING TO BE A WILD RIDE COME

  • JANUARY, SO BUCKLE UP.

  • >> Alcindor: AND, CHRIS, I

  • SPOKE TO DEVAL PATRICK AND

  • JULIAN CASTRO, BOTH STILL

  • RUNNING FOR THE DEMOCRATIC

  • NOMINATION BUT NEITHER ONE OF

  • THEM GOT ON STAGE.

  • WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY MIGHT

  • NEED TO DO ABOUT THIS?

  • AND ALSO, MICHAEL BLOOMBERG,

  • HE'S ACTUALLY SHOWING SUPPORT

  • GOING UP.

  • EVEN THOUGH HE'S NOT GOING TO BE

  • ABLE TO MAKE THE DEBATE STAGE,

  • HE IS POURING MILLIONS OF

  • DOLLARS OF ADS INTO TV.

  • >> YEAH, I MEAN, PATRICK AND

  • CASTRO, LOOK, WHAT THEY, I

  • THINK, ARE PROBABLY BEST SUITED

  • TO DO IS ALIGN WITH ONE OF THE

  • OTHER CANDIDATES.

  • I JUST DON'T SEE AN OPPORTUNITY

  • FOR THEM TO SORT OF BREAK OUT

  • AND ALL OF A <